One of the biggest problems for a current MMO: The People

[Dystopic]

TOR failed because the Devs themselves hyped it up. I've seen a lot of people talking about how overhyped GW2 is but i've only really seen it from the players. The devs of TOR promised everything and anything anyone could ask for. And then they did it again and again and again. For years they did it, hell they were still doing it after release hyping patches. They even hyped bug fixes! There were at least 3 patches that claimed to fix the old WZ wins not counting bug before it finally got fixed and it happened with plenty of other bugs.

[jediankh]

This Ive never understood. The vets who don't understand there own genre, it's player base or why it became popular in the first place.

 

Did it ever occur to you that the shift in MMO priorities is as much in response to the old guard *growing up* and getting out of the basement?

 

I don't know about you, but I could never play an EQ type MMO again. The ability to devote that level of time and attention to a game goes out the window the moment one gets a full time job.

WickedDjinn, i have a question for you, and not to be rude or anything but are you having fun?

[WickedDjinn]

WickedDjinn, i have a question for you, and not to be rude or anything but are you having fun?

 

I'm a contrarian! My fun only stops when people start agreeing with me.

[jediankh]

TOR failed because the Devs themselves hyped it up. I've seen a lot of people talking about how overhyped GW2 is but i've only really seen it from the players. The devs of TOR promised everything and anything anyone could ask for. And then they did it again and again and again. For years they did it, hell they were still doing it after release hyping patches. They even hyped bug fixes! There were at least 3 patches that claimed to fix the old WZ wins not counting bug before it finally got fixed and it happened with plenty of other bugs.

That's basically what developers do these days but it's actually the players that should take the hype with a grain of salt. So imo both the devs and the players are at fault.

[jediankh]

I'm a contrarian! My fun only stops when people start agreeing with me.

Well then my good sir!! I shall challenge you in a battle of great portions that you will collapse with exhaustion at how much fun you'll have! Edited August 2, 2012 by jediankh

[Scoric]

I hear ya there. It's tough though. If you were to launch a game now as brutal as EQ, Asherons Call were etc. People would play, rage quit, uninstall and never look back because it would be too much of a grind. It's like you can't win now no matter what kind of MMO you try to launch. That's why I don't place full blame on the developers for what is happening.

 

Exactly. The real problem is that there are several different problems.

1) You have your high-intensity, no life outside of gaming group who log into a new game and barrel through all content just to prove that they can. Then rage quit and go on forums like these complaining about how they can't understand why there's "never enough content in these games". Basically no game will ever be good enough for them for very long. All they can do now is look back on old games they played many years ago and say "oh, that game was good", but the reason is that back then, they weren't as intense about blasting through the content like a runaway freight train with no brakes.

2) You have the more relaxed, laid-back gamers who want to explore and enjoy the game, and don't want to get stuck in a grind fest, so if you make one in the game, then THEY will rage quit and jump on the forums complaining about it being monotonous and boring to have to grind through all of the content.

3) You have the people who seem to live under the impression that any MMO that comes out should have been developed solely for them. Therefore, if it doesn't have a specific feature, or has a game mechanic that they don't like, they rage quit and complain about the how the game sucks because it wasn't made specifically for their tastes.

4) Combine all of that with the people who either work for competing games developers, or are simply avid fans of a competing game, who will log into game forums all over the internet for the sole purpose of bad-mouthing and trashing a game just because it's competing with theirs, many of these have never even actually played the game that they are trashing.

 

Plus, you also have the general people who simply try a game, don't like it, and quit. But these people don't usually log into forums and complain because to them it's just a game, and not a big deal. These people typically at least have the understanding that no game is going to be for everyone.

 

Then you have the undecided group. Sadly, many of these people will log onto game forums to get a feel for the communities before they will even try a new game. They log in and see people from the above mentioned groups, and that turns them away from even trying some games. Which, also sadly, is exactly what some people in the above referenced groups actually want.

 

People just need to relax. It's a game. It's not supposed to be the end all / be all for anyone. It's supposed to be fun. Quit focussing on what the game DOESN'T have that you wish it did. Start focussing on what the game DOES have and enjoy it. If you can't enjoy it, then just shut up, quit, and find something that you can enjoy. Leave the people who DO enjoy it, to do just that.

 

As for this game, I was shocked that it is going F2P that quickly, but I'm not a doom-and-gloomer so I don't see it as the end of the world. In fact, I'm very happy about it. I know several people who would love to play the game, but with the economy the way it is right now, they are not willing to spend money on a monthly game sub. This means they can now play the game with me. It will be fun. And when the game stops being fun for me, I will leave, and won't bore anyone on these forums with my reasons for leaving.

 

To each their own.

[Katsuragisama]

Yeah it's a tough situation. If you are too much like WOW you suck because all you did was copy WOW. If you try to be too unique and non standard (FFXIV) then you suck because you are not like WOW and you don't have standard features.

 

QFT. I didnt mind FFXIV the way it was, they tried to add something new. I just hated the horrible optimization. Now I've been checking in on FFXIV from the ZAM forums to the official forums, and letters from the producer. It sounds like they're going to copy quite a bit from WoW, I just hope they dont lose the identity of FF in the process. Not sure if they can win with the FFXIV 2.0 reboot.

[Scoric]

This Ive never understood. The vets who don't understand there own genre, it's player base or why it became popular in the first place.

 

Did it ever occur to you that the shift in MMO priorities is as much in response to the old guard *growing up* and getting out of the basement?

 

I don't know about you, but I could never play an EQ type MMO again. The ability to devote that level of time and attention to a game goes out the window the moment one gets a full time job.

 

Also, very true.

[Goretzu]

you couldn't pay me enough to be a MMO developer.

 

$150,000 a year is the average pay isn't it?

 

that being said, this is about more than a bad game.. this is about a bad STAR WARS game. so the players are doubly disappointed

 

SWTOR isn't a bad game, but it's not a great game either, it could have been (and still could be) a great game with the right additions....... but those are looking less and less likely.

[MADDDAWG]

Exactly. The real problem is that there are several different problems.

1) You have your high-intensity, no life outside of gaming group who log into a new game and barrel through all content just to prove that they can. Then rage quit and go on forums like these complaining about how they can't understand why there's "never enough content in these games". Basically no game will ever be good enough for them for very long. All they can do now is look back on old games they played many years ago and say "oh, that game was good", but the reason is that back then, they weren't as intense about blasting through the content like a runaway freight train with no brakes.

2) You have the more relaxed, laid-back gamers who want to explore and enjoy the game, and don't want to get stuck in a grind fest, so if you make one in the game, then THEY will rage quit and jump on the forums complaining about it being monotonous and boring to have to grind through all of the content.

3) You have the people who seem to live under the impression that any MMO that comes out should have been developed solely for them. Therefore, if it doesn't have a specific feature, or has a game mechanic that they don't like, they rage quit and complain about the how the game sucks because it wasn't made specifically for their tastes.

4) Combine all of that with the people who either work for competing games developers, or are simply avid fans of a competing game, who will log into game forums all over the internet for the sole purpose of bad-mouthing and trashing a game just because it's competing with theirs, many of these have never even actually played the game that they are trashing.

 

Plus, you also have the general people who simply try a game, don't like it, and quit. But these people don't usually log into forums and complain because to them it's just a game, and not a big deal. These people typically at least have the understanding that no game is going to be for everyone.

 

Then you have the undecided group. Sadly, many of these people will log onto game forums to get a feel for the communities before they will even try a new game. They log in and see people from the above mentioned groups, and that turns them away from even trying some games. Which, also sadly, is exactly what some people in the above referenced groups actually want.

 

People just need to relax. It's a game. It's not supposed to be the end all / be all for anyone. It's supposed to be fun. Quit focussing on what the game DOESN'T have that you wish it did. Start focussing on what the game DOES have and enjoy it. If you can't enjoy it, then just shut up, quit, and find something that you can enjoy. Leave the people who DO enjoy it, to do just that.

 

As for this game, I was shocked that it is going F2P that quickly, but I'm not a doom-and-gloomer so I don't see it as the end of the world. In fact, I'm very happy about it. I know several people who would love to play the game, but with the economy the way it is right now, they are not willing to spend money on a monthly game sub. This means they can now play the game with me. It will be fun. And when the game stops being fun for me, I will leave, and won't bore anyone on these forums with my reasons for leaving.

 

To each their own.

 

Nicely said....

[spacerobot]

$150,000 a year is the average pay isn't it?

 

 

 

SWTOR isn't a bad game, but it's not a great game either, it could have been (and still could be) a great game with the right additions....... but those are looking less and less likely.

 

I don't look at it like it's a bad game because it doesn't have every feature I would like to see. For instance I would LOVE some online swoop racing or something like that. Could you imagine jumping in a race with like 8 other people and doing some serious racing. Upgrading your speeder or swoop like you upgrade your ship etc.

 

I would also love full 3D space combat and Pazaak.

 

Currently I have 1 level 50 and a bunch of alts. I don't raid or do dungeons really. I PvP quite a bit but not a lot. I really enjoy the game and will continue to sub probably after it goes F2P.

 

I look forward to what can be added, and do not slide to "this game sucks" because it doesn't have every feature imaginable.

[mangarrage]

I'm sorry but I totally disagree with a shift or growing up of first gen gamers.

I'm 41 now I have a child who plays sports. I do his homeworl every night with him as well. We have dinner together every night as well. I work 46 hours a week and I still blow through these games because they are easy and there isnt alot of content. That is a simple fact

 

Now back in EQ days where I was playing easily 2x or 3x the amount, the progress was a fraction of what it is today

 

So please don't tell me that lack of content is somehow good.

 

I am not looking for a game to compete with wow. I don't want a game that has multi-million people playing it. I want a game that has exploration, story, depth, taking time to advance through levels or raids or levels of pvp whatever.

Now I am not ignorant to the fact that gaming company's now just want to make piles and piles of money as their main incentive, rather then making a quality long lasting game

 

Unfortuantely everything in the above paragraph is gone from modern games and the end result is those games simply have no following. So its time to make a high quality game that simply doesn't appeal to millions upon millions.

Its not going to happen, but that is what the genre needs imo

[jediankh]

Exactly. The real problem is that there are several different problems.

1) You have your high-intensity, no life outside of gaming group who log into a new game and barrel through all content just to prove that they can. Then rage quit and go on forums like these complaining about how they can't understand why there's "never enough content in these games". Basically no game will ever be good enough for them for very long. All they can do now is look back on old games they played many years ago and say "oh, that game was good", but the reason is that back then, they weren't as intense about blasting through the content like a runaway freight train with no brakes.

2) You have the more relaxed, laid-back gamers who want to explore and enjoy the game, and don't want to get stuck in a grind fest, so if you make one in the game, then THEY will rage quit and jump on the forums complaining about it being monotonous and boring to have to grind through all of the content.

3) You have the people who seem to live under the impression that any MMO that comes out should have been developed solely for them. Therefore, if it doesn't have a specific feature, or has a game mechanic that they don't like, they rage quit and complain about the how the game sucks because it wasn't made specifically for their tastes.

4) Combine all of that with the people who either work for competing games developers, or are simply avid fans of a competing game, who will log into game forums all over the internet for the sole purpose of bad-mouthing and trashing a game just because it's competing with theirs, many of these have never even actually played the game that they are trashing.

 

Plus, you also have the general people who simply try a game, don't like it, and quit. But these people don't usually log into forums and complain because to them it's just a game, and not a big deal. These people typically at least have the understanding that no game is going to be for everyone.

 

Then you have the undecided group. Sadly, many of these people will log onto game forums to get a feel for the communities before they will even try a new game. They log in and see people from the above mentioned groups, and that turns them away from even trying some games. Which, also sadly, is exactly what some people in the above referenced groups actually want.

 

People just need to relax. It's a game. It's not supposed to be the end all / be all for anyone. It's supposed to be fun. Quit focussing on what the game DOESN'T have that you wish it did. Start focussing on what the game DOES have and enjoy it. If you can't enjoy it, then just shut up, quit, and find something that you can enjoy. Leave the people who DO enjoy it, to do just that.

 

As for this game, I was shocked that it is going F2P that quickly, but I'm not a doom-and-gloomer so I don't see it as the end of the world. In fact, I'm very happy about it. I know several people who would love to play the game, but with the economy the way it is right now, they are not willing to spend money on a monthly game sub. This means they can now play the game with me. It will be fun. And when the game stops being fun for me, I will leave, and won't bore anyone on these forums with my reasons for leaving.

 

To each their own.

Thank you for saying that and it is saddening for gaming and humanity in general.

[TUXs]

There is an MMO herd that roams through the digital landscape like a plague looking to devour new games and content. People get overly hyped and psyched about a new MMO. The MMO launches, they move in and blow through content fast, get bored, rage quit, slam the game and look to the next product. I'm not saying people are right or wrong for doing this. I'm saying that gamers habits and tastes have changed.

 

Bah...nothing new at all. Video game design and development isn't new to this decade mate...MMO's NEED a sandbox element to things - SWTOR lacks that. MMOs need 'down-time' activities, like interactive crafting, player housing, mini-games, co-op and vs. mini-games - non-combat 'stuff' that people can do in lieu of killing the same boss over and over. Repeatable and plentiful 'combat' is a must, as are 'fun' mini-games that aren't PvP or RAIDs. This isn't the players fault, it's developers who have failed the consumer.

[Lao_Dan]

Since when there was ever any good Star wars games these past years?

 

Good Star Wars games or good Star Wars MMOs? KotOR was great, and KotOR II was a hell of a lot better than this. Back in the '90s the Tie fighter and X-wing were great for their time.

[metalgearyoda]

Nope. Its the game. If the game is bad, people will leave.

 

I don't know. Just reading your post makes me want to leave so I don't play with you.

[DarthWoad]

I don't know. Just reading your post makes me want to leave so I don't play with you.

 

Bye!

[Katsuragisama]

$150,000 a year is the average pay isn't it?

 

According to this, the average is $81,192. It has more based on position if you go to the link.

[Eillack]

I'd say peopel where a nice influence to TOR going F2P.

 

Too many "Oh wait...you don't have XYZ right NOW?? K Bai!" TOR had too many "gimme gimme, I want now!!!!" players. To be honest, I'd agree with "it's partially the players' faults" argument.

[United_Strafes]

Nope. Its the game. If the game is bad, people will leave.

 

^^ this have had my share of dissapointments in games this year...Diablo and my share of surprises....Max Payne.

 

The game is bad people don't play simple, and when you have to pay....well. I'd say this would be a pretty good game as an RPG with a multiplayer on the side but at the rate at which content is released, which a lot of it is, let's face it, things that the game should have anyway, a subscription is just not warranted.

 

I like the game ok and I subscribe, still have 80+ days on my current, but I have no plans to re-sub. I'm also a huge Star Wars fan, if that wasn't the case I'm sure I would have stopped playing long ago.

Edited August 2, 2012 by United_Strafes

[Icebergy]

Completely agree with the OP.

[mightylawngnome]

While there's certainly some merit to the OP's argument that the MMO community by and large has created much of the landscape themselves, what's happening here and now comes down to poor management, and a flat out dishonest developer and publisher. Ten minutes browsing the forums you'll find link after link sourcing Bioware or EA Lieing to the customer base about what was going on with this game and where it's headed. On the flip side they've remained completely silent about some pretty serious issues players have been raising regarding a variety of things, with their only real response being, "Hey, we're listening to you".

 

What makes me so sad is that I do like the game, I've supported it thoroughly, and I MAY continue, depending on how on the level EA/BW show they can be. I'm just so sick of people ripping other users apart and saying everything is just fine, attaching all sorts of labels to anyone who notices there's a problem here, and can eloquently and maturely quantify it.

[pocketthesaurus]

Nope. Its the game. If the game is bad, people will leave.

It's really not. Society is full of whiny, impatient people that make a bigger deal of things than they oughta. Just look at what happened with Chick-fil-A.

[xViiRGIL]

I hear ya there. It's tough though. If you were to launch a game now as brutal as EQ, Asherons Call were etc. People would play, rage quit, uninstall and never look back because it would be too much of a grind. It's like you can't win now no matter what kind of MMO you try to launch. That's why I don't place full blame on the developers for what is happening.

 

This exactly, All the haters spout the line about "not having standard features at launch" thing all the time, but just look at the archived threads here from before launch and look at all the posts from WoW baby's that demanded that they NOT put a LFG tool in ToR. Most of them claimed LFG's "Ruin a servers community", and now where are those people that said "no LFG in ToR" funny thing is they are a lot of the same people that quit after the free month, and now trash the game to no end.

 

So as a dev now a days, getting payed to build a MMO, would be on my short list, right up there with willingly letting a horse kick me in the jimmy lol. Because it seems that your damned if you do, and damned if you dont.

[NoxiousAlby]

Nope. Its the game. If the game is bad, people will leave.

 

Quoted for truth................what the people do is kick it when it's down.