If F2P players have limited warzones - then won't they be undergeared for months?

[MoofKnight]

Pay2Win.

 

Remember, Pay2Win isn't just about buying a boost you can't get without cash. It's buying whatever you would normally have to grind out for it you didn't have the cash too. It shouldn't be possible to obtain top-tier rewards without actually competing and earning it. Otherwise, there's no top-tier anymore.

[Darth_Philar]

Pay2Win.

 

Remember, Pay2Win isn't just about buying a boost you can't get without cash. It's buying whatever you would normally have to grind out for it you didn't have the cash too. It shouldn't be possible to obtain top-tier rewards without actually competing and earning it. Otherwise, there's no top-tier anymore.

 

No, there is still a top tier and it is available for everyone. Pay2Win means getting more or better things than those who don't pay.

 

Besides, the fact that this game is combining subscription with F2P means that Pay2Win is what the subscribers will be doing per your definition.

[wetslampigduex]

i'm almost willing to bet they arent going to be allowed to PvP past lvl 50

[Sookster]

Isn't it 10 or 20 warzones a day for F2P players? I do about that many a day if I can get some time in, and I still managed to get full BM gear after 3 days doing that with a fresh 50. Not bothering with WH grinding, so that should still be accomplished with F2P, and then augment up to make a matchup against WH players.

 

Yes GW2 is F2P (well B2P) but it isn't a gear based grind that casuals can crutch onto and trash talk about how great they are. GW2 will take actual skill and thinking.

[Drudenfusz]

I think BioWare should allow to let the free players play at level 50 still in the warzones, because it would benefit the players with a sub. How? First queue times would be kept short and those f2p players would not leave the warzones early, because they have just a certain amount of games per week, so that would at least try to make the best they can in every game. Those who really want the gear faster might just sub for a month or two and get the set complete and drop the sub then... also maybe some folks with their gear will show up then again and play from time to time even they have no longer a sub.

[Memos]

uhhh.....ya, of course they will. i don't know about taking a year (I'm assuming you're just pulling numbers out of your rear end as many internetters do) but they're playing FOR FREE. That's the trade-off there champ. That's the whole point of F2P. If you want to progress as fast as everyone else, pay, if you want to just be casual about it, don't pay. At lease PvPers who are playing free will probably be able to get WH gear eventually. PvEers can't do operations at all, so the best they can hope for is columi/BH gear. And guess what? that'll take longer too cause they will have to rely on the daily group finder, and weekly quests for all their BH comms. No Denova for them....but again.....FREE

 

Thats what used to call "pay to win"...

[Zunayson]

It will be interesting for sure. It will also be quite the chore to have to explain to people alllll over again how resolve works 5,000 times.

 

And to teach them how to play Huttball? >.<

[MoofKnight]

No, there is still a top tier and it is available for everyone. Pay2Win means getting more or better things than those who don't pay.

 

Besides, the fact that this game is combining subscription with F2P means that Pay2Win is what the subscribers will be doing per your definition.

 

Let me clarify my point. Pay2Win, to me, means any of the following:

 

1) Only the best gear/items can be unlocked with cash

2) The grind to the top can be shortcut/boosted with cash

3) The grind to the top is so unrealistic, so you are forced to option 2)

 

The subscription model simply gives access to the grind. The F2P model blocks or limits the grind. Now, I get your point about subscription kind of being pay to win, but only as far as the content isn't locked or limited. For example, subscribers can do unlimited PvP, so the limit of warzone commendations you can earn is capped by your time or the grind. F2P users are not limited by time, but by a cap on warzones per week.

 

Now, if the cap can be removed using the Cartel Coins, that's fine, that's equal to subscribers as you are both now on an equal playing field. No boosts as such, just paying to have the same right to grind as everyone else. However, if warzone commendations or PvP gear becomes available via Cartel Coins, you are becoming Pay2Win. This is because, to remain competitive, everyone would have to spend additional cash beyond what you pay to gain access to the content.

 

I believe that, if Cartel Coins were only ever going to be for novelty / vanity items and unlocking content, then there is no need for subscribers to have them, at all, ever. The novelty / vanity items should just be free (or nominal cost in credits) via some subscriber vendor and Bind on Pickup.

[Zunayson]

Thats what used to call "pay to win"...

 

The same works for any free trial MMO. I see it no different in WoW. I'm pretty sure the max f2p level is 20, and you'll get stomped by any decently geared LVL 25s. It's not like MMOs have ever been fair in the first place, *cough* gear *cough*.

[Memos]

The same works for any free trial MMO. I see it no different in WoW. I'm pretty sure the max f2p level is 20, and you'll get stomped by any decently geared LVL 25s. It's not like MMOs have ever been fair in the first place, *cough* gear *cough*.

 

Thats why Wow isn't called f2p...or any trial mmo.

[Memos]

No, there is still a top tier and it is available for everyone. Pay2Win means getting more or better things than those who don't pay.

 

Besides, the fact that this game is combining subscription with F2P means that Pay2Win is what the subscribers will be doing per your definition.

 

Answer : http://www.swtor.com/free/features

[Elboc]

Nothing wrong with that.

 

People who buy the gear will fall into one of two categories:

 

1. Newb/noob - These guys will suck regardless of the gear they are in. Newbs will get better with time, but noobs will always suck simply because they think they are awesome and see no point in improving themselves.

 

2. Alts - These guys will already have fully geared WHs but simply want to experience PvP with a different character without needing to grind all that gear again and again.

 

The gear for sale would be the same as the gear you grind, meaning it simply becomes a priority decision for each player, do I value my time or my money more?

 

I would not be ok with this, and would consider it pay to win. People need to put in some effort to get gear, thats the whole idea of a progressive gearing system. If there is no effort needed, only money, then you might as well go similar to GW2 and make all the gear the same stats and just cosmetic. I dont hate F2P, but I would not support a system where you can just buy WH gear, thats BS.

[islander]

I'm looking forward to other folks suffering like I have the past several weeks. I came over to Fatman via move with very little BM gear (due to zero warzone pops on kinrath failure) and only now do I finally have a reasonable set of PvP gear.

 

It'll be fun smacking around someone else for a change.

[Lia_Kikar]

But I have a feeling you're one of the resident forum trolls since you're not even talking about the thread topic anyway, you just wanted to spout out some f2p hate.

 

Topic is about ungeared players and business model. Maybe the second paragraph should have come first.

 

Also on the other part on this topic you can see hopes that F2P will bring fresh new people. Not just few but a lot.

 

You are trolling here.

[Kawiki]

Yes they will be undergeared. That is the business model, they will want to gear faster so they will purchase the "warzone pack" so they can play more warzones.

 

Not rocket science guys.

[Capt_Beers]

http://www.swtor.com/support/helpcenter/6466

The Cartel Market will offer valuable in-game items including customizable gear and convenience features that will enhance the game play experience.

 

http://www.swtor.com/support/helpcenter/6467

Cartel Coins will be the new in-game virtual currency used for the Cartel Market. Cartel Coins may be used to purchase specialty items that allow you to customize and equip your character cosmetically.

 

Emphasis mine. That's from the FAQ on cartel coins/market. I read all the relevant entries in the FAQ and it doesn't seem like gear outside of maybe empty oranges to customize your appearance will be available. And don't forget if you are P2P you get 250 of those coins every month plus back pay for how long you have been subbed. So if BW does go that route, unless things are outrageously expensive, if you wanna buy yourself a new set of WH gear for an alt/main you should be able to do it right off the bat (although I still doubt this is going to be the case, I'll probably end up more pets, speeders, and sparkle powder than any sane man has a use for).

 

EDIT: Just looked at my avatar and wondered why it was blue since the BM gear isn't. Then I thought how awesome it would be if for some of those coins I could get custom armor colors. That would be awesome, neon green armor to match my neon green beam of awesome!!!

Edited August 2, 2012 by Capt_Beers

[UGLYMRJ]

THIS is why it WILL work.... hopefully.

 

If they enjoy PvP they will either pay up or get out. The ONLY people I can reasonably see staying as F2P players are the KOTOR fans who enjoy PvE and the story line.

 

Not only will they tired of not being geared well enough to compete but they will get tired of the limited amount of time they will be able to play. They will subscribe... or leave.

 

In theory as it's written I expect this to bring more subs... which is the only reason they're doing it. It's marketing tactic.... not F2P as people normally understand it.

 

All cash items appear as if they're going to be nothing more than cosmetic. To be competitive they will have to subscribe... trying to grind gear as a F2P'er would take a ridiculous amount of time.

Edited August 2, 2012 by UGLYMRJ

[CKNairb]

They will not be indergeard, they will be able to purchase it

 

Example Warhammer Online. its F2P and run by Bioware/EA

 

http://store.origin.com/store/ea/en_US/pd/productID.221617200

 

" Start with the Progression Pack, which gives your character 20 additional ranks above the normal maximum of 80. Gain extra advantages with two new Split sets of Armor and extra Renown gear as you advance to Rank 100. Your leveling becomes faster the more your play, moving you to the ranks of Warhammer elites and throwing the gauntlet down to your enemies. "

 

 

They do it with their other F2P games, what makes you think they wont for SWTOR

[UGLYMRJ]

They will not be indergeard, they will be able to purchase it

 

Example Warhammer Online. its F2P and run by Bioware/EA

 

http://store.origin.com/store/ea/en_US/pd/productID.221617200

 

" Start with the Progression Pack, which gives your character 20 additional ranks above the normal maximum of 80. Gain extra advantages with two new Split sets of Armor and extra Renown gear as you advance to Rank 100. Your leveling becomes faster the more your play, moving you to the ranks of Warhammer elites and throwing the gauntlet down to your enemies. "

 

 

They do it with their other F2P games, what makes you think they wont for SWTOR

 

You can tell who did read the FAQ's and who DIDN'T.

[CKNairb]

You can tell who did read the FAQ's and who DIDN'T.

 

I DID read the FAQ, multiple times

 

Aparently you believe marketing, and YOU didnt read the part where it said it will/may change.

 

Do you believe ShamWow isnt just a regular shammy ? That your Celeron E-Machine that had the sticker " never outdated " is still a powerfull machine and current ?

[CKNairb]

You can tell who did read the FAQ's and who DIDN'T.

 

Anf because you just read the FAQ you missed this part on the comparison table

 

 

*Subscription and Free-to-Play features are subject to change.

 

I lol that your gullible enough to think that SWTOR is a unique little teapot and they are not going to do the same thing they HAVE DONE with the OTHER F2P GAMES THEY CONTROL

Edited August 2, 2012 by CKNairb

[UGLYMRJ]

I DID read the FAQ, multiple times

 

Aparently you believe marketing, and YOU didnt read the part where it said it will/may change.

 

Do you believe ShamWow isnt just a regular shammy ? That your Celeron E-Machine that had the sticker " never outdated " is still a powerfull machine and current ?

 

Enjoy your assumptions. I'm trying to stay optimistic and read it as it's written. NOT assuming that TOR is being sold to Nexon and that I'll be able to purchase my next light saber with my Maple Story money.

 

It's a little early to be assuming that we'll be able to buy Darth Vader's helmet this fall isn't it?

[CKNairb]

Enjoy your assumptions. I'm trying to stay optimistic and read it as it's written. NOT assuming that TOR is being sold to Nexon and that I'll be able to purchase my next light saber with my Maple Story money.

 

It's a little early to be assuming that we'll be able to buy Darth Vader's helmet this fall isn't it?

 

 

Assumptions,,,, there are no assumptions, they CURRENTLY do it, there is no assumptions, the proof is in the link and in the Warhammer Store, EA/Bioware said the exact same thing to the Warhammer people.

[CKNairb]

It's a little early to be assuming that we'll be able to buy Darth Vader's helmet this fall isn't it?

 

do you or do you not see the Meditation char in the F2P page? Who has been the only person to use a meditation char in SWTOR cannon ? Not expanded universe.

 

Vader

 

 

So yes its not far off to say they will sell his helmet, they have helmets close to vaders already.

 

Slave Girl Set ?

Carbonite Statue ?

 

They will milk the franchise into the Cartel Store to make Lucas Proud

[Elkirin]

I find it saves a lot of energy if I wait until after something happens to panic.

 

The whole wake up in the morning, Panic, run in circles screaming, then go to work was wearing me down.