Nippon Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 (edited) They got a better game, and more importantly did not get a game that shut down because the producer would have gone broke keeping it open. LoTRO and DDO have both grown, made Turbine lots of money, and Turbine has released a lot of new expansion content for them (not just cash shop fluff, real content expansions). Turbine blazed the trail for the Freemium dual access model that SWTOR is moving to, not only proving it to be successful, but calling in to question why any MMO would be P2P moving forward. I don't think even Blizzard will release another P2P MMO. Yep playing Enedwaith, Mirkwood, Dunland and Isengard is awesome.... They should have just rolled them all into Mirkwood, because lets be honest that is all they are, exactly the same quests with exactly the same dailies, exactly the same rep grinds and exactly the same format. Seriously, play LOTRO to Mirkwood then give up, You have played all the content released after F2P already. SO no need to go any further. I could write the development cycle myself.... DEV: Oooo its 3 weeks till we gotta get the next update out... Producer: No prbs just take the base model of Makeb, make the ground red, change the sky a bit and throw some terrain in, not to much though, make it look different but dont go nuts, change the Npc names, throw a few new items on the vendors and ow lets change the Imperials to Ermmmm Mandalorians, that will do. Cool now what we putting in the store. DEV: You think we can get away with it. Producer: Of course we will, didnt you see all the F2P brigade on the forum ,they love it, churn any old crap out and they will swallow it whole, no questions asked. Producer: Tell you what, lets put an X-wing look a like on the store and they will go crazy, they ll flock like sheep with there bank cards for it and no-one will even notice the new area is basically the same as the last. EA Rep: Dam straight its a good idea, these Mugs will play any crap we throw out, its F2P, it doesnt even have to be good, we can basically change the name of Tython and a few colours and they will lap it up like it better than sliced bread. We dont even have to develop anymore, we can just rehash everything we already did. EA Producer: But seriously guys put a lot of effort into that store, we can milk them for all sorts there, they will buy in game balloons with Yodas face on if they think it makes there character better. Pause EA Exec: So guys about this TCG thing SOE did........... Edited August 2, 2012 by Nippon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xorv Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 just because i'm curius what does cox stand for such that I could give a try. (yes I know it's off topic) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samy_Merchi Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 City of Heroes/Villains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blattan Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 just because i'm curius what does cox stand for such that I could give a try. (yes I know it's off topic) City of "X". It is shorthand for City of Heroes and City of Villains after they merged into one. Although, technically, NCSoft wants it to be called City of Heroes now, many fans still use CoX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackavaar Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 FTP isn't new by any strech only in america other wise you're you've got these guys or these guys just to name a few. Might I point out that I did say, "....relatively new to most companies..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristein Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 Someone gets level 1 -50 free. That's the bulk of the game. It's all about the stories, questing and making alts. For that you pay nothing, so free players won't be buying any content at this stage. Yes, if they want to raid , pvp etc they have to pay but i bet many will just try the stories then go no further. Exactly correct! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristein Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 Yep playing Enedwaith, Mirkwood, Dunland and Isengard is awesome.... They should have just rolled them all into Mirkwood, because lets be honest that is all they are, exactly the same quests with exactly the same dailies, exactly the same rep grinds and exactly the same format. Seriously, play LOTRO to Mirkwood then give up, You have played all the content released after F2P already. SO no need to go any further. I could write the development cycle myself.... DEV: Oooo its 3 weeks till we gotta get the next update out... Producer: No prbs just take the base model of Makeb, make the ground red, change the sky a bit and throw some terrain in, not to much though, make it look different but dont go nuts, change the Npc names, throw a few new items on the vendors and ow lets change the Imperials to Ermmmm Mandalorians, that will do. Cool now what we putting in the store. DEV: You think we can get away with it. Producer: Of course we will, didnt you see all the F2P brigade on the forum ,they love it, churn any old crap out and they will swallow it whole, no questions asked. Producer: Tell you what, lets put an X-wing look a like on the store and they will go crazy, they ll flock like sheep with there bank cards for it and no-one will even notice the new area is basically the same as the last. EA Rep: Dam straight its a good idea, these Mugs will play any crap we throw out, its F2P, it doesnt even have to be good, we can basically change the name of Tython and a few colours and they will lap it up like it better than sliced bread. We dont even have to develop anymore, we can just rehash everything we already did. EA Producer: But seriously guys put a lot of effort into that store, we can milk them for all sorts there, they will buy in game balloons with Yodas face on if they think it makes there character better. Pause EA Exec: So guys about this TCG thing SOE did........... Well said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xorv Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 Might I point out that I did say, "....relatively new to most companies..." Ah-fair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 Yep playing Enedwaith, Mirkwood, Dunland and Isengard is awesome.... They should have just rolled them all into Mirkwood, because lets be honest that is all they are, exactly the same quests with exactly the same dailies, exactly the same rep grinds and exactly the same format. Seriously, play LOTRO to Mirkwood then give up, You have played all the content released after F2P already. SO no need to go any further. I Just because you don't like LoTRO does not in any way assess the viability of their Freemium model. According to you, they should have gone out of business 3 years ago. Yet, they did not and the game is very much alive and frankly with a much better community then this game. So the Freemium model does work, and not just for Turbine either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkirus Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 Just because you don't like LoTRO does not in any way assess the viability of their Freemium model. According to you, they should have gone out of business 3 years ago. Yet, they did not and the game is very much alive and frankly with a much better community then this game. So the Freemium model does work, and not just for Turbine either. I agree. And Turbine has made more profits sence they coverted to a FTP model than they did as a sub base only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nakoda Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 I could write the development cycle myself.... Here, I summarized for you: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerfectPint Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 That's probably true. LotRO, DDO and AoC have multiplied their player bases and revenue by adopting the "freemium" model. People still freak out about it because they're stupid. Stupidity has nothing to do with it. I was an avid DDO player and once it went F2P I stayed with it for almost a year then bailed. The type of player changed dramatically and quests that were tough became very easy. I realize that these games are businesses and need to make money; but for me any challenge disappeared so I left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhealThar Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 Not really. There isn't much benefit to subbing, also many people have unsubbed because of this announcement. It will of course bring in the freeloaders but if they wouldn't pay for a sub what makes you think they will spend a fortune in the store. This is the main problem and reason why more MMOs aren't f2p, people like this think that people that would try the game when it's free are "freeloaders" When in reality, maybe people just stay away from sub based MMOs because they feel obligated to play the game when it costs them money per month. When it's free, you can play whenever you like and buy things from the shop as you see fit. I know a few people that play lord of the rings online, and they refused to play world of warcraft because they're married and would feel obligated to play wow everyday because they're spending money per month on it. They actually spend more money in the shop per month than they would paying a sub, but it's just the thought behind paying money to access your characters I guess. A lot of people will flame SWTOR/EA/bioware for going f2p, but I think going forward almost every MMO will follow this model because companies just don't put out enough content to warrant the 15$ a month payment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nakoda Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 They actually spend more money in the shop per month than they would paying a sub, but it's just the thought behind paying money to access your characters I guess. A lot of people will flame SWTOR/EA/bioware for going f2p, but I think going forward almost every MMO will follow this model because companies just don't put out enough content to warrant the 15$ a month payment. are you a shareholder or a customer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevlarto Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 I'm stating that real expansions are a part of Freemium games. I make no attempt to tell any player the difference between good and bad because that is a waste of air when talking to MMO players. One persons cake is another persons cowpie when it comes to MMO players. You win the internet for that statement, Every one plays these games for so many different reasons..and opinions. I can't recall any game that made the switch to f2p, ended up pulling the plug. For profit companies are going to do what they need to do to make more profit. I am not worried about the f2p model, I have a life time account in lotro, i have over 12,000 lotro point that I have been given though the months I have not spent a penny on them, and I have not bought anything out of the store other than a horse and the Isengard expansion, I don't need anything out of the store to progess my toon at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beslley Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 Multiplying your players and revenue might be good if you are a shareholder or investor (are you?) but what exactly did the players get out of the deal? Did they get a better game? Or did they get a game that asked you to open you wallet every time you logged in, with shoddy, barebones expansions and a store full of items to take away the sting of all the newly introduced grinds? +1 insightful This gentleman knows what's up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiddymun Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 Those people who sub will notice virtually no difference apart from a monthly allocation of Cartel Points. What TOR has basically done is widened its potential player base by a lot. I'm afraid I don't agree with these points.... and would suggest that you think a little further. Firstly, at present your subscription gives you access to everything in-game. All content, all items, every single designed pixel. In the forthcoming F2P model, it will not. You will need to spend more real money to purchase Cartel Coin bundles to gain access to store items. Secondly, there are many reasons so many players unsubscribed and the given reason (40% not liking the subscription model) is a PR spin that offers smoke and mirrors to cover a) the factors determining the reasoning of the other 60% and b) the reason why the 40% didn't think the game worth subscribing to in the first place. The core problems in the game are not being addressed and the true reason for a shift to the hybrid model have not been stated. The 'unsubscription wall' that has existed for previous ex-players still remains. So... those players that are still going through the 'happy and satisfied' phase may continue to subscribe until they hit the wall, and there will be an influx of returning/new players that will go the F2P route and play until they hit the wall, too. The second group will, if all goes well, enjoy replenishment... but as nothing has been done to combat the core problems the game has - those things that actually cause people to unsubscribe - player numbers will continue to decline over time. In the meanwhile, EA/Bioware will milk as much revenue from ALL players, whether subscribers or F2Pers, until the carousel grinds to a halt. This, by the way, is the true reason for their hybrid model... only a severely niave person could believe they have done this for the benefit of the playerbase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beslley Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 I'm afraid I don't agree with these points.... and would suggest that you think a little further. Firstly, at present your subscription gives you access to everything in-game. All content, all items, every single designed pixel. In the forthcoming F2P model, it will not. You will need to spend more real money to purchase Cartel Coin bundles to gain access to store items. Secondly, there are many reasons so many players unsubscribed and the given reason (40% not liking the subscription model) is a PR spin that offers smoke and mirrors to cover a) the factors determining the reasoning of the other 60% and b) the reason why the 40% didn't think the game worth subscribing to in the first place. The core problems in the game are not being addressed and the true reason for a shift to the hybrid model have not been stated. The 'unsubscription wall' that has existed for previous ex-players still remains. So... those players that are still going through the 'happy and satisfied' phase may continue to subscribe until they hit the wall, and there will be an influx of returning/new players that will go the F2P route and play until they hit the wall, too. The second group will, if all goes well, enjoy replenishment... but as nothing has been done to combat the core problems the game has - those things that actually cause people to unsubscribe - player numbers will continue to decline over time. In the meanwhile, EA/Bioware will milk as much revenue from ALL players, whether subscribers or F2Pers, until the carousel grinds to a halt. This, by the way, is the true reason for their hybrid model... only a severely niave person could believe they have done this for the benefit of the playerbase. I think most of the F2Pers will play for the story, stop, and never play again. It's obvious that their plan is to sucker people in with this F2P demo while simultaneously nickeling and diming both the F2Ps and the subscribers. Meanwhile, scores of players are leaving because they see the writing on the wall. I seriously doubt that EA/Bioware will gain more subs than they lose from this decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macabakur Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 1- There's still a lot of benifit for subbing if you want to do stuff like operation, having multiple character, not paying for every new content etc. 2- I know a lot of people who would not play league of legend if it wasnt free. I also know people spending money for skins. I think a lot of people will try this game because it is free and some of them will sub, some will buy stuff at the cartel shop and some will be a waste of space. But really who cares, as long as they get more money from this game to produce more content i'm fine with it. And as a bonus i get free cartel coin to spend at the shop with my subs, i always thought swtor lacked fluff. honestly.. couldn't agree more.. I can only see this helping SWTOR in the long run. And for us people that have been here since january, that's what we want.. I want this game to grow, and get better, it's a great game. I really hope it works, swtor is way too good of a game, and is hands down, so much better than either ddo/lotro.. hopefully some of the ppl that currently play there will see this and want to play.. anything that makes us grow is a + 1 for real.. here's to hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macabakur Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 (edited) I think most of the F2Pers will play for the story, stop, and never play again. It's obvious that their plan is to sucker people in with this F2P demo while simultaneously nickeling and diming both the F2Ps and the subscribers. Meanwhile, scores of players are leaving because they see the writing on the wall. I seriously doubt that EA/Bioware will gain more subs than they lose from this decision. disagree, never played a game where i've leveled to max and then just stopped.. if it has end game, I want to check it out, if i've taken the time to level 1-50 I'm going to want to progress my character further, and that means end game operations and warzones, and I think most gamers are like that. Edited August 2, 2012 by Macabakur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerevan Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 (edited) It really depends on who you ask. Games usually grow when they're F2P; I think I'll enjoy it as a casual player. It's a bit like going low budget camping, whereas you previously went to an all inclusive resort with fences to keep the unwashed hordes out. The community will take a turn for the worst I suspect and they'll probably, slowly, go over to a pay-to-win-esque model. It also has a load of benefits ofcourse; you don't pay for stuff you don't use. Will the game fail? Nah. Edited August 2, 2012 by Aerevan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mezla Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 When a game goes F2P it has already failed. There is no if. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TKMaster Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 F2P is a fail. F2P = Failed 2 Profit And those "industry analyst" (read: the tools at mmorpg.com) promoted the business model that 90% of their advertisers have. Surprise, surprise. Funny, Blizzard even disagrees with you, Titan will be F2P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HelinCarnate Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 When a game goes F2P it has already failed. There is no if. So the increase in profit that DUCO, LOTRO and DDO made after going F2P means that they failed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mezla Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 So the increase in profit that DUCO, LOTRO and DDO made after going F2P means that they failed? Making 100 bucks a month instead of 10 bucks a month is a massive increase alright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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