Shebolith Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 Just wanted some advice from the community. I am enjoying my Scoundrel Scrapper its lvl 15 atm. Have always loved the "rogue" style game play. So my questions are as follows: 1. Are they viable end game as DPS in ops? Are we even considered in a group.. 2. Are scoundrel sawbones viable healers endgame? Thanks Guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elbmuh Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 Scoundrel DPS in Dirty Fighting can still put out good numbers. Scrapper is inferior. Sawbones healing is actually pretty amazing. Sawbones will put out the best single target healing and has the fastest heals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetou Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 1. Sort of. One of the weakest choices, but still more than capable of at least doing HM Ops. If you want a spot on HM Denova, though, you may struggle. 2. Yes, perfectly fine. We're probably the strongest PVP healers and the second strongest PVE healers. Sages still put out the group healing numbers and have the utility of bubbles that makes a lot of groups like to have at least one around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daiyukie Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Scoundrel DPS in Dirty Fighting can still put out good numbers. Scrapper is inferior. Sawbones healing is actually pretty amazing. Sawbones will put out the best single target healing and has the fastest heals. Total numbers means nothing. DoT/AoE classes will always have higher scoreboard numbers, but Scrapper burst is good with good gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elbmuh Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Scrapper won't put out the DPS necessary to sustain damage in long boss fights. Maybe in moments where burst is needed (like taking down bombers for Kephess) they will shine, but DF can still put out decent damage and will over the course of the entire fight be more valuable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LagunaD Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 (edited) I loved playing my Scoundrel as a Scrapper in PvE, but I eventually (and with sadness) switched to healing. On my four Level 50's, I have cleared every Operation on every difficulty mode and run Hard Mode flashpoints hundreds of times. In guild runs, or PuGs, or Group Finder groups, sampling hundreds of characters from my server, I have never encountered another DPS Scoundrel (except my own, while I was spec'ed that way). I know a fair fraction of the people on my server who clear all the content, at least as casual acquaintances, and have been in several guilds that were focused on raiding to one degree or another. Not a single one of them used a DPS Scoundrel in any raid group. I have seen multiple players of every other Advanced Class in operations and flashpoints. Never, ever, a Scoundrel DPS. To me, that says something about the viability of the advanced class in the DPS role. Not intended as a diss to anyone who *has* done top-tier endgame as a DPS Scoundrel; quite the contrary. But if Scoundrel DPS in PvE were on par with any of the other advanced classes, I think people would be playing them in visible numbers. But they are not. While I can believe that a well-geared Scrapper can perhaps parse decent numbers on the training dummy, that type of testing conceals the lack of mobility, and lack of answers to all the anti-melee, anti-positional mechanics in operations. If raid bosses behaved like training dummies, we would be fine. But of course they don't. To the extent Dirty Fighting works better, I suspect it's because it behaves as more of a ranged DPS spec than a melee DPS spec. Edited July 30, 2012 by LagunaD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dipstik Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 so i ahve a level 21 scoundrel dps right now. I leveled a 50 heals scoundrel in beta and had em at 50 for a few weeks before character wipe and launch. out of a sorc healer and a shadow tank, I think the scoundrel was by far the most fun (funnest) to play. However, at this point, my low level chacater, does most of thier damage while i am within 4 meters of the target. unless im blaster whiping and back blasting, i cant seem to get very good numbers... which makes me think... is scrapper a melee dps spec? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daiyukie Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 so i ahve a level 21 scoundrel dps right now. I leveled a 50 heals scoundrel in beta and had em at 50 for a few weeks before character wipe and launch. out of a sorc healer and a shadow tank, I think the scoundrel was by far the most fun (funnest) to play. However, at this point, my low level chacater, does most of thier damage while i am within 4 meters of the target. unless im blaster whiping and back blasting, i cant seem to get very good numbers... which makes me think... is scrapper a melee dps spec? You're certainly not a ranged DPS spec, but you can afford to dance back out to 15m if you feel the need. Trying to stay within a Juggernaut's dead zone (5m to 9m) is also a strong suit because you're not helpless at greater-than-melee-range, but for most targets you are going to want to stick as close to them as possible, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LagunaD Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Scoundrel DPS is supposed to be a "skirmisher" type fighter (short-mid range), which is odd considering the positional requirements for our best short-cooldown attack, reliance on Blaster Whip (a strictly melee-range ability) to do any noticeable damage to a target that's facing us, and total lack of mobility to control our range or position from the enemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emidas Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 As of this post, I play a Scrapper for a guild on Pot5. We have cleared everything but HM Kephess. I have cleared every raid multiple times now and my dps has been more than capable in these raids. Is it as good as the Sentinels, Vanguards, or Slingers? No. But we are more than capable of hitting the dps needed. I am in mostly Black Hole/Campaign gear now, rest Rakata. I'm sitting at about 2300 cunning, 40% crit fully buffed, 76% surge. Just a note, I have also never seen any other dps scoundrels since about 1.1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wastrelz Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 (edited) 1. Are they viable end game as DPS in ops? Are we even considered in a group.. 2. Are scoundrel sawbones viable healers endgame? 1. As it stands, not very. I'm also the only DPS scoundrel I run into in operations. Be prepared to get rejected by many groups, or booted if there is any problem at all, whether or not you were at fault in any way. That has been my experience. And, it's true, while I can out-dps a lot of people, I can't match what the more skilled players on other classes can do. I can perform pretty well, I think, but I don't see any way I can ever match the numbers my friend on his Sentinel can put out, for example, and he's buffing the rest of the group at the same time! But...I still have the most fun playing my dps scoundrel. So you can be like me and try to keep playing it anyway. 2. Yes. If you want to heal you'll never have trouble finding groups. Edited August 9, 2012 by Wastrelz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blondesolid Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 1. As it stands, not very. I'm also the only DPS scoundrel I run into in operations. Be prepared to get rejected by many groups, or booted if there is any problem at all, whether or not you were at fault in any way. That has been my experience. And, it's true, while I can out-dps a lot of people, I can't match what the more skilled players on other classes can do. I can perform pretty well, I think, but I don't see any way I can ever match the numbers my friend on his Sentinel can put out, for example, and he's buffing the rest of the group at the same time! But...I still have the most fun playing my dps scoundrel. So you can be like me and try to keep playing it anyway. 2. Yes. If you want to heal you'll never have trouble finding groups. That's pretty much identical to my experience as well. Get some pity groups with the guild sometimes, but a pug will never happen lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentKitty Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 Ohh.... well this wasn't happy reading for me. Have a little scoundrel who dinged 50 a while ago. I can heal but am not totally in love with it. Was hoping to perhaps switch her over to dps instead but it doesn't sound like she would be contributing too much then. I have to try at least. Who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wastrelz Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 (edited) Ohh.... well this wasn't happy reading for me. Have a little scoundrel who dinged 50 a while ago. I can heal but am not totally in love with it. Was hoping to perhaps switch her over to dps instead but it doesn't sound like she would be contributing too much then. I have to try at least. Who knows. I know the op specifically asked about operations, but if you like to PvP, the answer can be quite different. If not for PvP I would probably have given up on the class (and the game), but I love to PvP more than anything else. I enjoy operations, but PvP is tops for me. So....if you like to PvP as I do, the soundrel can be a lot of fun, and here's some examples. (Granted, you need to be skilled and geared, but that comes over time.) 1. I just love to beat the people who write off scoundrels as too weak, and then get surprised after they get me mano-a-mano. Yes, that fuzzy little bunny has bite! The fact is, I can beat most people in a 1v1 fight. I can't beat everyone, for sure. But I can beat most. Boy do I love it when that first moment of panic sets in, when they realize they have bitten off more than they can chew. 2. Sometimes I actually pretend to be a healer, by starting to heal. Along comes some Jedi thinking he's going to make mince meat of the squishy healer, when SURPRISE, stun, blast, whack, punch, punch, and he's going down! This doesnt' work so well when 3 of them at a time come at me, so you have to be selective when to try it. 3. The Juggernaut push/leap routine. I used to hate that. But then I learned to love it. A lot of Juggernauts will actually, rather foolishly, push me out of the crowd and then force leap me. They are of course greeted by a dirty kick as soon as they arrive, and then I'm in my element. Scoundrels suck in the middle of traffic, and my goal in killing someone is always to get them alone--and the JN has just done that for me. Ah, sweet 1v1. The only downside is that JN's can also force leap themselves away from me once they realize they are in trouble, and I can't always kill them fast enough for the skill not to come back up. Oh well. 4. Call it silly, but there is no class I love killing more than Powertechs. Those guys think nothing can hurt them. I love to show them different. Stick that in your grapple hook! Although they can kite, their biggest weakness is that they aren't much good at getting away when they need to. They are tough meat, but sweet, when you can get it. All right, I know this is beginning to sound a bit weird . 5. The squishy inquisitors are fun to kill, mostly because they try to sprint away. I've gotten pretty good at having tendon blast ready for just the moment. You've got to have points in Stopping Power for that, a good reason in itself to go Scrapper. 6. Fights with DPS operatives. These can get pretty intense, and sometimes we have our own little wars in the midst of a warzone. Great fun sparring off against each other using the same basic skills and techniques. 7. The hate. Boy do people get ticked with me when I knock them down out of stealth and finish them off when they were already low health. I've actually had times in warzones when I've had more than half of the other team trying to get at me, ignoring everything else while the rest of my team flips the door or advances the ball to the end zone. I can't help making use of some appropriate emotes at them at such moments. Suckers! I can't give you much encouragement for PvE, but if you PvP, I hope this is helpful. You won't get much recognition. You'll get fewer metals than everyone else, you'll die a lot, and you can flip every door and bridge in voidstar and nobody on either team even knows you did it (and you get no votes), but if you can forget all that and just have fun, it's great! Edited August 11, 2012 by Wastrelz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentKitty Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 Ha ha =) Thank you so much for taking your time to describe your playstyle. I've only done healing, and always in the PvE-area but I'll look into the things you described. Have hopes of perhaps trying a little dps/ off-healer in Ops with guildies during fun runs in Ops. It would be great to try to as a versatile player as possible. Dps when needed or and extra heal for those Ohh Gawd-moments. Thanks again, and have fun on the forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainamoinen Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 3. The Juggernaut push/leap routine. I used to hate that. But then I learned to love it. A lot of Juggernauts will actually, rather foolishly, push me out of the crowd and then force leap me. They are of course greeted by a dirty kick as soon as they arrive, and then I'm in my element. Scoundrels suck in the middle of traffic, and my goal in killing someone is always to get them alone--and the JN has just done that for me. Ah, sweet 1v1. The only downside is that JN's can also force leap themselves away from me once they realize they are in trouble, and I can't always kill them fast enough for the skill not to come back up. Oh well. Be careful with Dirty Kick after being leaped to. They can spec to be CC immune for 4 secs after a leap, signified by a red glow (if I remember correctly). If they're immune you just blew your stun, which is irritating. Might make more sense to root with Tendon Blast and step out in case they intend to ravage or smash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wonkadude Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1078240-Guide-Operative-Concealment-PvE A very useful guide on concealment operative end game PvE. (the mirror of scrapper scoundrel) short version: any class is viable in end game PvE, scrapper just must work harder. I suggest http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#401McZGhrodzRdGRZhM.2 5/31/5 build I think it would be best. I picked incisive action b/c you can help with healing (ex a very AoE heavy boss fight) and generate a free TA when you do it. (good for EV 4th boss, for self healing and free TAb/c you can't use hidden strike) 4% endurance for increased survivability. The rest is pretty much standard. PS, picked jarring strikes over the sever tendon root b/c IMHO the cc is more useful, but that can be changed if you feel the need Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LagunaD Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1078240-Guide-Operative-Concealment-PvE A very useful guide on concealment operative end game PvE. (the mirror of scrapper scoundrel) A lot of good introductory information there, but the stats section is totally wrong about capping Accuracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainamoinen Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 (edited) sssshhh, let the ops stack acc! *glances around shiftily* Edited August 11, 2012 by Wainamoinen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wastrelz Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 Be careful with Dirty Kick after being leaped to. They can spec to be CC immune for 4 secs after a leap, signified by a red glow (if I remember correctly). If they're immune you just blew your stun, which is irritating. Might make more sense to root with Tendon Blast and step out in case they intend to ravage or smash. Good point, and every scoundrel should learn to be able to recognize that buff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wonkadude Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 A lot of good introductory information there, but the stats section is totally wrong about capping Accuracy. besides that misinformation, it is very effective. Also a couple of the specs linked are ify, mine seems to be better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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