Why not B2P like GW2?

[LibertySol]

Ok

 

"We have a great business right now and we're not looking to make any abrupt changes."

 

And, sorry

 

Did I 'lost' something?

 

That isn't the same thing and you know it. That's typical PR talk that every company does. No one's going to say "We're in serious trouble and we're going to make an abrupt change". What it means is they won't bad mouth the game and they'll continue to watch how things go and make a decision based off that which very could be a change in buisness model.

[Nyoro]

So, when we say that there are currently eight dungeons, we really mean there are thirty-two dungeons, as each dungeon has a story version and three explorable versions."

 

Thanks for that. I needed a good laugh.

[cipero]

-Having to buy the best looking gear in-game

-Having to buy an expansion

April 28, 2005 (original release of the game, 60$)

April 28, 2006 Guild Wars Factions, 40$

October 27, 2006 Guild Wars Nightfall, 40$

August 31st, 2007 Guild Wars Eye of the North, 40$

 

with no real "content" patch in between, i dont see how its better.

 

And you think SWTOR Expansions are going to be free? What kinda crack you smokin?

Also if you consider aviators and town clothes the best looking gear in the game..more power to ya because GW's store has a whopping number of ZERO items with stats on them for sale. Nice try

Edited July 26, 2012 by cipero

[Ensquire]

Here's a scary thought..... soon GW2 will go live and after a few weeks the locusts and armchair experts will pronounce it "FAIL" and "cooked and finished"..... which pretty much only leaves them Pandaland to use as their success benchmark forecast to compare to so the forums will get Panda'ed big time. That is going to be some funny doodoo.

 

The funniest part about when GW2 gets pronounced "FAIL" is that they cannot claim it will go F2P in 30 or 60 days.

 

How can something fail when you don't pay for a subscription?

 

This game we are customers, and most of the resentment comes from paying $15 a month and getting very little in return. Most customers who have left do not think this is a very good value, so to these people, this method and what they are getting is fail. I fail to understand how a B2P could ever be considered fail

The only month i think they deserved $15 was the month they put out the Rakghoul event and put out the custom hub editor (which was the same month)

Edited July 26, 2012 by Ensquire

[KeepMe]

How can something fail when you don't pay for a subscription?

 

What you need to sub for a game to have it fail? What world are you living in.

[KhealThar]

The game features a whopping 8 dungeons (3 at endgame) and no endgame raids. As far I'm concerned that is no PvE endgame.

 

I don't even know why you're championing GW2 here anyway, shouldn't you be on the Anet forums?

 

What is endgame? Is end game grinding dailies, doing Raids and dungeons? If so then no, Guild Wars probably isn't a game you should play.

 

If endgame is something like exploring towns, doing puzzle events to get chests, partaking in World vs World vs World battles with 3 entire servers against eachother, or Structured pvp tournaments then hell yeah GW2 has end game content.

 

The best part about GW2 is, it isn't a boring grind fest with a carrot on a stick, all end game armor is purely cosmetic and doesn't require a 6 month grind to be competitive.

 

The main reason the MMO genre is so stagnant these days is because everyone wants just a carbon copy of the last big MMO ie: raids, grinding dailies and dungeons, that's boring. I can't speak for you but I'm burnt out on raiding and grinding dungeons. I want a world that is worth exploring and FUN things to do. Guild Wars 2 developers have captured this feeling and they don't even require a sub fee.

 

 

What end game content does SWTOR have this is so super awesome and worthy of your 15$?

Edited July 26, 2012 by KhealThar

[Ensquire]

What you need to sub for a game to have it fail? What world are you living in.

 

I fail to understand how you can deem it a failure, if you pay for a boxed game and your not paying for a sub. Unless the game is horrid and no-one purchases the boxed game to begin with

 

Players are typically more forgiving if there not paying for a subscription fee

Edited July 26, 2012 by Ensquire

[LibertySol]

What you need to sub for a game to have it fail? What world are you living in.

 

There are two ways for an MMO to fail in the normal sense.

 

No one buys it.

No one subscribes.

 

Obviously millions will buy it. And there's no subscription.

 

The only way for GW2 to fail is if their servers are totally empty after release.

[Ensquire]

There are two ways for an MMO to fail in the normal sense.

 

No one buys it.

No one subscribes.

 

Obviously millions will buy it. And there's no subscription.

 

The only way for GW2 to fail is if their servers are totally empty after release.

 

Having said that, They have free server transfers at launch, so players can migrate as soon as they feel the server isn't to their liking, I doubt server issues for GW2 are going to be the same ones they had with the TOR

 

I think the difference is if i get tired of that game specifically, there's nothing preventing me from not coming back two or three months down the road, where as this game presents barriers for the players return

Edited July 26, 2012 by Ensquire

[Nyoro]

What is endgame? Is end game grinding dailies, doing Raids and dungeons? If so then no, Guild Wars probably isn't a game you should play.

 

If endgame is something like exploring towns, doing puzzle events to get chests, partaking in World vs World vs World battles with 3 entire servers against eachother, or Structured pvp tournaments then hell yeah GW2 has end game content.

 

The best part about GW2 is, it isn't a boring grind fest with a carrot on a stick, all end game armor is purely cosmetic and doesn't require a 6 month grind to be competitive.

 

The main reason the MMO genre is so stagnant these days is because everyone wants just a carbon copy of the last big MMO ie: raids, grinding dailies and dungeons, that's boring. I can't speak for you but I'm burnt out on raiding and grinding dungeons. I want a world that is worth exploring and FUN things to do. Guild Wars 2 developers have captured this feeling and they don't even require a sub fee.

 

 

What end game content does SWTOR have this is so super awesome and worthy of your 15$?

 

I'm not arguing that the game has better PvP, it's a PvP focused game and is designed and balanced around PvP which would explain why they don't care much for PvE endgame.

 

Anyway I played 3 of the beta weekends but didn't manage to log more than a couple of hours for the last one. The story was beyond lame, Group quests are just click this or zerg 100 of that while hoping you don't get instagibbed; exploring is kinda forced since you need to visit every part of the map to level up. Again I'm not trying to argue whether it's a bad game or not(the coming months will decide that) but I can tell it's not for me. FPS offer me a better PvP experience and WoW/SWTOR offer a better PvE experience with actual progression so I'd rather stick with that.

[LibertySol]

Thanks for that. I needed a good laugh.

 

Read: I have no counter argument so I'll just post more bs.

 

It's okay anytime you need more schoolin' I'm around.

[ZudetGambeous]

Man are people really that ignorant about GW2? or are they just trolling.

 

If you are going to bash another game then at least know SOMETHING about the game first lol.

 

You can not buy the best looking armor in GW2, nor could you in GW1. The armor you could buy was "town clothes" that couldn't even be worn into combat.

 

There were in fact 2 major non expansion related content updates in GW1 in the past year, which were both free. So there goes your always have to pay for content idea.

 

There is a ton of endgame in GW2, certainly more than TOR has. There are no boring repetitive dailies or weekly lockouts or raids, because the game is fun, it doesn't need you to grind to "enjoy" it.

 

There are 8 dungeon areas, each of which has a story mode and 3 explorable modes. The explorable modes each path has different trash, different traps and different bosses, what is called 1 explorable mode is equivalent to 1 Dungeon in TOR. So there are essentially 32 TOR type dungeons in GW2, including 12 that are max level only.

 

Of course they are all "endgame" dungeons because you can do them over even as you level past them because the game adjusts your stats back down so they maintain a challenge and hard to do for ALL levels.

 

Not to mention the fact that there are 4-6 (2 aren't confirmed for launch just rumored) PvP maps including competitive and casual PvP brackets, which is more than TOR.

 

Also there is WvWvW which is open world PvP on a scale TOR can't even fathom.

 

So if you are going to bash GW2 at least get your facts straight when doing so.

[LibertySol]

I'm not arguing that the game has better PvP, it's a PvP focused game and is designed and balanced around PvP which would explain why they don't care much for PvE endgame.

 

Anyway I played 3 of the beta weekends but didn't manage to log more than a couple of hours for the last one. The story was beyond lame, Group quests are just click this or zerg 100 of that while hoping you don't get instagibbed; exploring is kinda forced since you need to visit every part of the map to level up. Again I'm not trying to argue whether it's a bad game or not(the coming months will decide that) but I can tell it's not for me. FPS offer me a better PvP experience and WoW/SWTOR offer a better PvE experience with actual progression so I'd rather stick with that.

 

lol this thread is NOT about is GW2 a good game.

 

It was about the B2P business model but people just turn everything into us vs them. Furthermore BETA is never a good indication of how a game is. Let me break down each of your points:

 

"The story was beyond lame". This is your only point that I can't prove because its subjective. I played a human and a charr in beta. I disliked the human story but liked the charr one. On the flip side a lot of people hate the Jedi Con story but love the Imperial Agent story. It's no different imo.

 

"it's a PvP focused game and is designed and balanced around PvP". Again not true. Each dungeon has a completely different path and that's why its like an entirely different dungeon. If you've played WoW it's like Scarlett Monastery. 1 dungeon with multiple sub dungeons.

 

"Group quests are just click this or zerg 100 of that while hoping you don't get instagibbed". Again that's probably what it'll be like and launch and in beta. I feel like there's no way around other than instancing people in different instances for dynamic events and hearts. When the game stabilizes it will be much more enjoyable. As of launch/beta there's like a hundred people doing each event.

 

"Exploring is kinda forced since you need to visit every part of the map to level up" It's not. In Beta they reduced experience gain so people wouldn't hit the cap earlier. Also you have to let go of your previous notion of chain questing to level up. Gathering, crafting, exploring, and WvW all give exp as well. In beta I was short exp a few times but I just explored and was fine. If I had been crafting (crafting beta is a waste of time so most don't do it) I'd have tons more exp.

 

Now the thead is just TOR vs GW2. Unfortunately.

[Diktat]

I'm not arguing that the game has better PvP, it's a PvP focused game and is designed and balanced around PvP which would explain why they don't care much for PvE endgame.

 

Anyway I played 3 of the beta weekends but didn't manage to log more than a couple of hours for the last one. The story was beyond lame, Group quests are just click this or zerg 100 of that while hoping you don't get instagibbed; exploring is kinda forced since you need to visit every part of the map to level up. Again I'm not trying to argue whether it's a bad game or not(the coming months will decide that) but I can tell it's not for me. FPS offer me a better PvP experience and WoW/SWTOR offer a better PvE experience with actual progression so I'd rather stick with that.

Indeed you barely palyed the game, and certainly you didn't understand the game mechanics.

You don't need visit every part of the map. You can level up to level 80 in the same place, because the game prevents you to overlevel any zone in the game downleveling you to +2 the level of that zone, so you always gets XP. You can do eternally the same world event or the same world boss and still get XP because your efective level is that zone level, despite what's your real level.

Edited July 26, 2012 by Diktat

[cipero]

Also..Gw2, same as GW1, will have monthly and holiday events...am idea almost barren in the world of SWToR because apparently none of these planets and races populating them celebrate anything.

[Nyoro]

lol this thread is NOT about is GW2 a good game.

.

 

The post I was responding to was you muppet.

 

 

I think I'll just put you on ignore.

[pocketthesaurus]

Every single one of your posts is completely unhelpful and isn't constructive at all.

The person who said there is no end-game content isn't constructive?

 

No one said anything about turning TOR into GW2 get your head out of the sand.

No, but that is what a lot of suggestions seem to be. So many posts comparing it to GW2... It's hard to say you're not trying to turn it into it. But my point was also valid: If you have a model like that, then you will end up more like it. Namely, you won't have anymore end-game content in the future.

[cipero]

I believe SWToR would be better off as B2P, no p2w model of course, because they'd be able to focus on a task at a time without laying underneath the 'must retain subs' EA branded guillotine. Think about it really for a second... Some players are happy, some want pvp changes, some want new raids, some want new battlegrounds, meanwhile they have to deal with server population and bugs, all the while still having to make optimization changes. EDIT: can't forget about gear, many want new gear.

 

Quite frankly, because they are a sub based game, they must acknowledge they need new content, so they split their ever-shortening team up (layoffs) and try to get everything done so they don't lose subs for the next quarterly report, and it ends up taking them a long time to do so, because the other half is still working on the bugs and balances.

 

If it were B2p they'd be able to devote all their team to one task after another to knock them out at a faster pace, without worrying about subs dropping (because there wouldn't be any). That's just my own opinion.

Edited July 26, 2012 by cipero

[LibertySol]

The person who said there is no end-game content isn't constructive?

 

 

No, but that is what a lot of suggestions seem to be. So many posts comparing it to GW2... It's hard to say you're not trying to turn it into it. But my point was also valid: If you have a model like that, then you will end up more like it. Namely, you won't have anymore end-game content in the future.

 

Saying there is no end game isn't true because the entire game is end game and their is PvE content at 80. That's what he meant.

 

I didn't say try to be like GW2 in my post you assumed so based on OTHER peoples posts. Are you serious? How am I saying TOR should be GW2? Is TOR WoW because it has group finder? Did I even talk about features in GW2? No I talked about a business model.

 

You talk about content being added but TOR hasn't seen new content since 1.2 - Legacy. 1.3 didn't bring new content it brought group finder and tons of tweaks/fixes. That was early April.

 

And the devs of GW2 say they'll be trying to add content monthly so why would TOR not have end game content anymore with a B2P business model.

 

That's why I said you added nothing to the discussion.

[DorkTrooper]

I don't care one iota about GW2, but I don't want to see SWTOR go the same subscription model as GW2, even if it would bring more players to the game.

 

The only way I would even consider continuing to play under a B2P model would be if the P2P option (without a big price jack) was still there, and provided access to everything the B2P version has (with in-game resources, no additional real money).

 

I don't mind grinding credits to have said access, as long as it's there in-game. I'm not going to pay real money per item/quest/whatever because a) it's more expensive b) it's inconvenient and c) that isn't the payment model I signed up for. If I wanted to play a F2P/B2P game, I would have signed up for one initially.

 

The other option I would consider is lifetime subscription, but again, only if it includes everything covered by B2P.

 

If it were B2p they'd be able to devote all their team to one task after another to knock them out at a faster pace, without worrying about subs dropping (because there wouldn't be any).

 

They'd still have to worry about players leaving. People aren't going to pay for all the shiny items if they aren't playing.

Edited July 26, 2012 by DorkTrooper

[Timtimbot]

Let me set you straight OP. The only talk of f2p for swtor's has been for the f2fifteen. When bioware has been asked (and they have at least twice from blog interviews) if swtor would take up a f2p business mode, the reply and i quote "no" "at most we'd be looking at getting new players into the game with a f2p to a certain level. So new players can experience the game" "people who play the old republic, enjoy playing the old republic" "we want to try an bring those new players in to the game to experience it, and enjoy it"

 

So as you can see the blogs an bioware have spoken on this. Now that Ivm logged in on my phone im going to start shutting these f2p post back down the throats of the OP's

[LibertySol]

I don't care one iota about GW2, but I don't want to see SWTOR go the same subscription model as GW2, even if it would bring more players to the game.

 

The only way I would even consider continuing to play under a B2P model would be if the P2P option (without a big price jack) was still there, and provided access to everything the B2P version has (with in-game resources, no additional real money).

 

I don't mind grinding credits to have said access, as long as it's there in-game. I'm not going to pay real money per item/quest/whatever because a) it's more expensive b) it's inconvenient and c) that isn't the payment model I signed up for. If I wanted to play a F2P/B2P game, I would have signed up for one initially.

 

The other option I would consider is lifetime subscription, but again, only if it includes everything covered by B2P.

 

B2P isn't Pay to Win. In a B2P model the only things you could buy would be convience and cosmetic items. And most of those items could be gotten through normally playing the game.

[LibertySol]

Let me set you straight OP. The only talk of f2p for swtor's has been for the f2fifteen. When bioware has been asked (and they have at least twice from blog interviews) if swtor would take up a f2p business mode, the reply and i quote "no" "at most we'd be looking at getting new players into the game with a f2p to a certain level. So new players can experience the game" "people who play the old republic, enjoy playing the old republic" "we want to try an bring those new players in to the game to experience it, and enjoy it"

 

So as you can see the blogs an bioware have spoken on this. Now that Ivm logged in on my phone im going to start shutting these f2p post back down the throats of the OP's

 

That's nice but I posted multiple articles and quotes already proving this. They never said no. If you have a quote to back up your claim I'd glady read it.

[cipero]

Let me set you straight OP. The only talk of f2p for swtor's has been for the f2fifteen. When bioware has been asked (and they have at least twice from blog interviews) if swtor would take up a f2p business mode, the reply and i quote "no" "at most we'd be looking at getting new players into the game with a f2p to a certain level. So new players can experience the game" "people who play the old republic, enjoy playing the old republic" "we want to try an bring those new players in to the game to experience it, and enjoy it"

 

So as you can see the blogs an bioware have spoken on this. Now that Ivm logged in on my phone im going to start shutting these f2p post back down the throats of the OP's

 

Glad you were able to read since the name of the thread is B2P and not F2P. kthnxbye

[cipero]

B2P isn't Pay to Win. In a B2P model the only things you could buy would be convience and cosmetic items. And most of those items could be gotten through normally playing the game.

 

That's what most people don't understand about the in game store in GW. Sure, it's convenient to buy a pack of undiscovered dyes, but you also find plenty of dyes just by playing the game. Sure it's conveniant to buy a magic key to unlock that magic treasure chest you looted, but you can also get the keys just naturally playing the game. Random loot is random.