Arsenal Mercenary Guide: 1.3 Updated!

[cortea]

I've already done that and also stated i tried 0 25 50 and 75 for queing. Trust me i do plenty of testing weekly and sometimes daily

 

Why would I trust you? You're making a claim that nobody in the theory community has ever claimed. That the server latency is 5 times that of actual in game latency. That's an extraordinary claim that requires evidence. I asked you for your testing methodology and you said you looked at the first three hits in a dummy combat log. I pointed out how that methodology is flawed.

 

Now you claim to have used different methodology as well. So please tell us what you did. I suggested 40-60 sequential hits. Is that the test you did? Can you post your raw log then that shows this extreme and consistent additional latency? And what server?

 

For example. Here's a test on Dalborra. 10 sequential tracer missiles on a target dummy.

 

From the raw logs. The "abilityactivate" is at 22.584. The 10th is at 36.068. The time between that is 13.384. Divide that by 9 gives us 1.487 per cast. With my alacrity that theoretically could be 1.44 I think. So it's pretty darn close. It's also a very small sample size.

 

And please refrain from suggesting i'm trying to blame lag that doesn't exist when it in fact does on my server

 

Don't be an idiot. That's not what I said.

Edited August 3, 2012 by cortea

[deadandburied]

And now we're at the name calling part. Updated my post however. Server=The Harbringer Edited August 3, 2012 by deadandburied

[cortea]

And now we're at the name calling part. Updated my post however. Server=The Harbringer

 

You started it. Haha.

 

You haven't updated your post with evidence. You're just offering a bunch of conclusions and opinions on how good you are. Nobody cares. Evidence buddy, is where it's at.

 

I've run it on Dalborra and posted my results above. If you doubt them I'm more than happy to supply the raw logs rather than the summary.

 

edit: updated with a test on The Harbinger (my first server it turns out). Not a great test. It's a new character so I'm really only testing the 1.5 GCD on auto attack, and mobs die very quickly. Picking a group of 3 mobs and spamming flurry of bolts, with in game latency of 208 (from australia) and a 0.5 ability action queue window, the first action was at 41.505 and the 9th at 54.056. That's a difference of 12.551 which when divided by 8 gives 1.568. Which is only marginally higher than the GCD, but certainly less than 1.7, and considering my considerable latency of 208 demonstrates the action queue window appears to be doing its job. But it was a small sample size. Someone with access to a dummy could perform a much more valid test.

 

 

 

[13:27:41.505] [@Vosa] [@Vosa] [Flurry of Bolts {947955116802048}] [Event {836045448945472}: AbilityActivate {836045448945479}] ()

[13:27:41.505] [@Vosa] [@Vosa] [sprint {810670782152704}] [RemoveEffect {836045448945478}: Sprint {810670782152704}] ()

[13:27:41.804] [@Vosa] [separatist Field Scout {505341557080064}:121286940974] [Flurry of Bolts {947955116802048}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (0 -miss {836045448945502}) <1>

[13:27:41.946] [@Vosa] [separatist Field Scout {505341557080064}:121286940974] [Flurry of Bolts {947955116802048}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (31 energy {836045448940874}) <31>

[13:27:42.694] [separatist Field Scout {505341557080064}:121286940974] [@Vosa] [Ranged Attack {813449625993216}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (30 energy {836045448940874}) <30>

[13:27:43.098] [@Vosa] [@Vosa] [Flurry of Bolts {947955116802048}] [Event {836045448945472}: AbilityActivate {836045448945479}] ()

[13:27:43.494] [@Vosa] [separatist Field Scout {505341557080064}:121286940974] [Flurry of Bolts {947955116802048}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (30 energy {836045448940874}) <30>

[13:27:43.679] [@Vosa] [separatist Field Scout {505341557080064}:121286940974] [Flurry of Bolts {947955116802048}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (30 energy {836045448940874}) <30>

[13:27:44.336] [separatist Sniper {505345852047360}:121286941062] [@Vosa] [Ranged Attack {813449625993216}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (28 energy {836045448940874}) <28>

[13:27:44.354] [separatist Field Scout {505341557080064}:121286941018] [@Vosa] [Ranged Attack {813449625993216}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (0 -miss {836045448945502}) <1>

[13:27:44.597] [@Vosa] [@Vosa] [Flurry of Bolts {947955116802048}] [Event {836045448945472}: AbilityActivate {836045448945479}] ()

[13:27:44.954] [@Vosa] [separatist Field Scout {505341557080064}:121286940974] [Flurry of Bolts {947955116802048}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (0 -dodge {836045448945505}) <1>

[13:27:45.255] [@Vosa] [separatist Field Scout {505341557080064}:121286940974] [Flurry of Bolts {947955116802048}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (32 energy {836045448940874}) <32>

[13:27:45.255] [@Vosa] [separatist Field Scout {505341557080064}:121286940974] [] [Event {836045448945472}: Death {836045448945493}] ()

[13:27:45.256] [@Vosa] [@Vosa] [] [Event {836045448945472}: GainXp {836045448945491}] (63)

[13:27:45.761] [separatist Sniper {505345852047360}:121286941062] [@Vosa] [Ranged Attack {813449625993216}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (14 energy {836045448940874}) <14>

[13:27:46.105] [@Vosa] [@Vosa] [Flurry of Bolts {947955116802048}] [Event {836045448945472}: AbilityActivate {836045448945479}] ()

[13:27:46.211] [separatist Sniper {505345852047360}:121286941062] [@Vosa] [Ranged Attack {813449625993216}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (13 energy {836045448940874}) <13>

[13:27:46.328] [separatist Field Scout {505341557080064}:121286940974] [@Vosa] [Ranged Attack {813449625993216}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (0 -miss {836045448945502}) <1>

[13:27:46.352] [separatist Field Scout {505341557080064}:121286941018] [@Vosa] [Ranged Attack {813449625993216}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (0 -miss {836045448945502}) <1>

[13:27:46.610] [@Vosa] [separatist Field Scout {505341557080064}:121286941018] [Flurry of Bolts {947955116802048}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (32 energy {836045448940874}) <32>

[13:27:46.876] [separatist Field Scout {505341557080064}:121286941018] [@Vosa] [Ranged Attack {813449625993216}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (0 -miss {836045448945502}) <1>

[13:27:46.911] [@Vosa] [separatist Field Scout {505341557080064}:121286941018] [Flurry of Bolts {947955116802048}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (30 energy {836045448940874}) <30>

[13:27:47.036] [separatist Field Scout {505341557080064}:121286941018] [@Vosa] [Ranged Attack {813449625993216}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (9 energy {836045448940874}) <9>

[13:27:47.719] [@Vosa] [@Vosa] [Flurry of Bolts {947955116802048}] [Event {836045448945472}: AbilityActivate {836045448945479}] ()

[13:27:47.720] [@Vosa] [separatist Field Scout {505341557080064}:121286941018] [Flurry of Bolts {947955116802048}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (0 -miss {836045448945502}) <1>

[13:27:48.201] [separatist Sniper {505345852047360}:121286941062] [@Vosa] [Ranged Attack {813449625993216}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (0 -miss {836045448945502}) <1>

[13:27:48.426] [@Vosa] [separatist Field Scout {505341557080064}:121286941018] [Flurry of Bolts {947955116802048}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (33 energy {836045448940874}) <33>

[13:27:48.513] [separatist Field Scout {505341557080064}:121286941018] [@Vosa] [Ranged Attack {813449625993216}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (0 -dodge {836045448945505}) <1>

[13:27:48.525] [separatist Field Scout {505341557080064}:121286941018] [@Vosa] [Ranged Attack {813449625993216}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (9 energy {836045448940874}) <9>

[13:27:48.525] [separatist Field Scout {505341557080064}:121286941018] [@Vosa] [Ranged Attack {813449625993216}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (9 energy {836045448940874}) <9>

[13:27:48.825] [separatist Sniper {505345852047360}:121286941062] [@Vosa] [Ranged Attack {813449625993216}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (13 energy {836045448940874}) <13>

[13:27:49.307] [@Vosa] [@Vosa] [Flurry of Bolts {947955116802048}] [Event {836045448945472}: AbilityActivate {836045448945479}] ()

[13:27:49.738] [@Vosa] [separatist Field Scout {505341557080064}:121286941018] [Flurry of Bolts {947955116802048}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (30 energy {836045448940874}) <30>

[13:27:49.738] [@Vosa] [separatist Field Scout {505341557080064}:121286941018] [] [Event {836045448945472}: Death {836045448945493}] ()

[13:27:49.738] [@Vosa] [@Vosa] [] [Event {836045448945472}: GainXp {836045448945491}] (63)

[13:27:50.805] [@Vosa] [@Vosa] [Flurry of Bolts {947955116802048}] [Event {836045448945472}: AbilityActivate {836045448945479}] ()

[13:27:50.806] [@Vosa] [separatist Sniper {505345852047360}:121286941062] [Flurry of Bolts {947955116802048}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (0 -miss {836045448945502}) <1>

[13:27:51.676] [@Vosa] [separatist Sniper {505345852047360}:121286941062] [Flurry of Bolts {947955116802048}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (28 energy {836045448940874}) <28>

[13:27:52.331] [separatist Sniper {505345852047360}:121286941062] [@Vosa] [Ranged Attack {813449625993216}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (30 energy {836045448940874}) <30>

[13:27:52.405] [@Vosa] [@Vosa] [Flurry of Bolts {947955116802048}] [Event {836045448945472}: AbilityActivate {836045448945479}] ()

[13:27:52.951] [@Vosa] [separatist Sniper {505345852047360}:121286941062] [Flurry of Bolts {947955116802048}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (25 energy {836045448940874}) <25>

[13:27:53.251] [@Vosa] [separatist Sniper {505345852047360}:121286941062] [Flurry of Bolts {947955116802048}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (31 energy {836045448940874}) <31>

[13:27:54.056] [@Vosa] [@Vosa] [Flurry of Bolts {947955116802048}] [Event {836045448945472}: AbilityActivate {836045448945479}]

 

Or cleaned up for human reading:

[13:27:41.505] [@Vosa] [@Vosa] [Flurry of Bolts {947955116802048}]

[13:27:43.098] [@Vosa] [@Vosa] [Flurry of Bolts {947955116802048}]

[13:27:44.597] [@Vosa] [@Vosa] [Flurry of Bolts {947955116802048}]

[13:27:46.105] [@Vosa] [@Vosa] [Flurry of Bolts {947955116802048}]

[13:27:47.719] [@Vosa] [@Vosa] [Flurry of Bolts {947955116802048}]

[13:27:49.307] [@Vosa] [@Vosa] [Flurry of Bolts {947955116802048}]

[13:27:50.805] [@Vosa] [@Vosa] [Flurry of Bolts {947955116802048}]

[13:27:52.405] [@Vosa] [@Vosa] [Flurry of Bolts {947955116802048}]

[13:27:54.056] [@Vosa] [@Vosa] [Flurry of Bolts {947955116802048}]

 

 

 

Oh, and with gcd_lag you need to set strict_gcd_queue=1. It works then. If you think anything else isn't working feel free to specify what and I'll check that out too.

Edited August 3, 2012 by cortea

[deadandburied]

I said on the Fleet ops dummy with 200 people on the fleet and Denova. Sorry, i should have put the mention of lag in the 3rd sentence and not first sentence as it can be taken to mean what you thought. Do not test on a planet with 30 or whatever. Test apples to apples please. I believe i later said during prime time. Treat that as 5-9 pdt. And if i didn't please do so. Switching to an fleet instance with say 20 people the lag is pretty much gone. I never said the lag was consistent. I said and will say again it's extremely variable. KP for instance i don't recall lag being an issue. In fact Denova seems to be the only one that's really bad and noticeable by all in the raid. Try reading the customer service, general discussion, Flashpoints etc sections and use search with keyword "lag". Here's a quote from the first one that came up for me searching ops posted yesterday.

 

First off, I'm astonished at how little forthought was put into the server merge. With as many servers combining into one server it doesn't surprise me we are having huge issues with operations being overpacked and causing severe unplayable lag. Waiting 3 to 5 seconds for a reaction from an ability drastically impacts the performance and creates an environment that is not fun. We chose to stop doing our operation purely not because we can't do the fight, we have HM EC on farm in multiple groups in our guild, but we stopped because of lag. If we can't play the game, why should we pay to play? I think if you had appoximated 75% of the server population things would be a bit smoother thant his. Even cutting it by 50% might help. Not only this, but what will happen if we get such a huge gain of people from F2P? What is your solution then when our servers get even bigger? This is absolutely ridiculous. This lag has gone on for a long time now and has gotten much worse in the last couple weeks. Before you did the server merge, we were still raiding. Yes we had a headache of filling missing slots with a low population, but we still raided and got **** done. Now we are calling raids in a raid team due to playing at peak hours and insane lag.

 

My suggestion, you need to fix the lag before you do anything. Don't work on extra features, F2P or nothing until the game you have currently is working on primary status. Use better approximations. Your servers should be able to easily play the amount of people on each server and then be able to play any time you come out with any new features that might bring old players back to the game that spikes the popluation up. Fix it, or give me my money back for not being able to do what I want to do in a game I pay to play.

 

I've no idea what server he's on. He may be exaggerating a bit as i don't feel Denova is unplayable on my server. But if his server is worse then mine i can well understand the frustration. Sure tanks may die now and then due to lag for us. But we can usually revive a tank and continue on. Since most of us either have BIS gear, mods, etc or close to that enrage timers are never an issue in Denova 16 man hard even with the lag and lowered dps. I'm only worried about when Nitemare mode comes out. Since this effects all of us in our raid will enrage timers become an issue. As i'm always trying to be proactive i'm looking at what i can do to improve my dps to ensure we're successful. Gathering data about my casts times on paper it looks like lowering casts times should help. But won't be sure til i actually try it.

 

Aerro,

 

Apologies if you feel this is detracting from your original post. Maybe i should continue this discussion elsewhere.

Edited August 3, 2012 by deadandburied

[cortea]

He, and other threads, are not talking about the same kind of lag you're talking about. You're suggesting there is constant lag that increases the average cast time of tracer missile by some 20%. From 1.45 to over 1.7, so constant that it's responsible for severely reducing your dps. He's talking about lag spikes - often multi second delays that everyone experiences which can cause wipes and make ops impossible. And we all get them regardless of server, and I wouldn't' be surprised at all if server population directly impacted that.

 

anyway if you don't want to supply any evidence to back up your claim that's fine. But it's pretty silly of you to get offended when people choose not to take your word for it. Most posts that make claims in these forums are wrong, which is why most involved in providing tools that model the game demand, and provide, evidence along with claims.

[Aerro]

Everything is fine. Debates are going to happen, but of course I would like them to be less personal and more factual. All in all, the discussion was very intuitive.

[Delnoir]

It is quite frankly a load of bull that this thread isn't stickied. Good guide man.

[Aerro]

It is quite frankly a load of bull that this thread isn't stickied. Good guide man.

 

All the other forums have a thread stickied, but heh, I don't expect this one to be. Its whatever! As long as people are finding it useful I'm fine

[deadandburied]

Oh, and with gcd_lag you need to set strict_gcd_queue=1. It works then. If you think anything else isn't working feel free to specify what and I'll check that out too.

 

That settings changes the gcd to 1.0 seconds. Perusing the files they have cast times for each ablity. For example Rapid Shots is shown as 1.5 seconds. By making the GCD 1.0 you just made Rapid Shots able to cast below 1.5 seconds. So it changes for example rapid shots to 1.477 seconds. So do not change that setting.

 

Leaving the setting at default is mostly correct. However Fusion Missle that cast is speded up to 1.417 when it should be 1.5+default lag etc. Assuming making a castable ability instant means making it use a gcd which i believe is the case. Unload is speeded up some but not enough. For example the cast shows as 3.003 seconds default lag etc included. When it should be in the 2.8xx to very low 2.9xx range with default lag etc. BTW can check/verify by looking at each ability and do ability seconds/ability count. For Unload this was 90.7/30.2=3.003. TM is shown as 1.445 with default lag etc. That seems about right. But because of Unload being off this means alacrity is under valued. Granted it's not going to increase it enough to make it a desirable stat to equip for. But it does make the talent choices a bit more desirable. We're only talking a very very slight increase in worth here.

[Aerro]

I honestly which there was a little more diversity in the spec. Right now we're debating over a 3-4 DPS increase, which still being an increase, is so small that it almost doesn't matter.

[cortea]

That settings changes the gcd to 1.0 seconds. Perusing the files they have cast times for each ablity. For example Rapid Shots is shown as 1.5 seconds. By making the GCD 1.0 you just made Rapid Shots able to cast below 1.5 seconds. So it changes for example rapid shots to 1.477 seconds. So do not change that setting.

 

OK seriously. You need to stop making **** up. You test something, which is very useful, but then you jump to a wild conclusion which has nothing to do with what you tested. Stop pretending to know more than you do. It gets in the way.

 

It DOES NOT set the GCD to 1.

 

It is NEEDED for gcd_lag to have any affect whatsoever. If it is unset, then gcd_lag is completely ignored. Hence if you want gcd_lag to have any affect, you also need to set strict_gcd=1. You can easily see that by experimenting with strict_gcd=1 and gcd_lag with varying values. But I'm also telling you that's exactly how it works in the code. That isn't up for debate. If you don't believe me, look at the code yourself.

 

It does, however, have a side effect of working around the restriction of instant casts being locked to 1.5s GCD. It removes 0.032 from instants. That's a bug. Albeit a minor one.

[jgarib]

I just want to post to corroborate the observations made by deadandburied. While I'm not going to get all specific and spend time generating logs to prove my observations on the internets, I can take a 5 minute parse at 1PM EST on my server (Prophecy of the Five) and take another 5 minute parse at 8PM EST and notice a 250-400 dps LOSS at 8PM (prime time). My rotation, gear, spec, etc is identical. The only variable between the two is server lag.

 

Take it for what you will. Just what I have observed.... I've started taking my parses at the same time of day when making changes to my gear/rotation to try and obtain more consistent and comparable results.

 

Also, Aerro, great job! Love the guide and all the insights and info this thread has provided.

Edited August 14, 2012 by jgarib

[Slimefist]

Bump good thread

[acnoj]

....I can take a 5 minute parse at 1PM EST on my server (Prophecy of the Five) and take another 5 minute parse at 8PM EST and notice a 250-400 dps LOSS at 8PM (prime time). My rotation, gear, spec, etc is identical. The only variable between the two is server lag.[/u][/b]

 

Actually your variables also include crit rates, the min-max range on every attack and human error. 5 minutes is not enough to accurately measure your DPS, try 15 minutes of Rapid Shot spam at 1pm and again at 8pm, and see how that varies. Rapid Shot's hits so many times it eliminates a lot of the randomness, and would be a lot better test of server lag.

[PUMA]

I'm currently a 4/4 HM EC Madness Assassin and I wanted to bring some vibrance back to the game by rolling Merc. You're guide is exceptional and it's even helped me a little with leveling as well. Only 36 but I already feel like a Bounty Hunting ******. Being prepared for endgame by the time I hit 50 will really help and this guide does just that.

 

So, thanks for the detailed write up. And you may want to state the necessity of the 4 piece bonus...that is unless you feel that it can be dropped. I should be full black hole (not optimized) upon 50 through legacy gear and won't have the bonuses immediately.

Edited August 20, 2012 by PUMA

[Aerro]

I didn't state the importance of the 4pc, but I guess I can. I just made the assumption that people understood that it was a necessity. I'll update to guide to better illustrate why set bonuses are needed.

[digimass]

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/40a79890-c62f-48c2-bb21-5717d65024f5

 

my current build and gear set. I am missing both blaster barrels still, and 5 campaign mods with 68 aim (nimble 26). Luckily I am in a good farming group now for denova hm, and just need to get lucky on some rolls for it all. The adv reflex armor for the bracer and belt would be nice too, but we're trying to RE any raw item mods that drop.

 

I have my stats stacked, and went with the set for:

Power821.0

Accuracy285.0

Crit187.0

Surge285.0

 

this leaves me with the 109.89 accuracy / 75.82 base, and i can see there is some misses, but the overall damage has been better than the 111% accuracy / 73 % surge I was running before.

 

Anyone else kinda running the same stuff right as they progress before the new ec nm and terror from beyond? and where are these new 27 item mods coming from?

[Aerro]

I am running 98.89 % Ranged Accuracy, ~980 power, 37.8% crit and 75% surge.

 

98.8% Accuracy and up is definitely safe and viable.

[JimmyTheCannon]

Is that your actual Power amount, or your Tech Bonus damage?

[Aerro]

It is my actual power.

 

My Tech Power is at 1,298

[The_Duck]

DPS went up quite a bit once I got a campaign barrel with 68 aim for my mainhand.

2 million credits well worth the price!

 

Anyways, I think I forgot to put on one of my PvE implants but still managed 1200-1300 dps across all of Denova HM (tanks onwards).

 

here's a link if you are interested:

http://www.torparse.com/a/15879

 

(as described in this thread - basically all black hole/campaign with about 99% accuracy, 35% crit buffed, rest in power)

[Aerro]

I'm glad to see that website is up and running again! I remember a while ago it went down due to funds.

[Aerro]

The guide should be updated with changes coming in 1.4. No I cannot elaborate further without getting into any trouble.

 

Lets just say you all will be pleased.

[acnoj]

The guide should be updated with changes coming in 1.4. No I cannot elaborate further without getting into any trouble.

 

Lets just say you all will be pleased.

 

Damn Aerro, how are you getting the inside scoop and where do I sign up?

[Aerro]

Damn Aerro, how are you getting the inside scoop and where do I sign up?

 

Just have to toss away some dignity and do some brown-nosing!