Tobradex Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 First, I like this game a lot and hope that it is successful. Second, I am a long time MMO player since early EverQuest. I came here from "the game that shall not be named". The concerns regarding communication and developers ignoring feedback have merit. My concerns are not so much about being given feedback on exactly when new content etc is coming out, but rather with the ignoring of player feedback on forums and from players in BETA when balancing classes. Many subs were lost post (including many theory crafters) after 1.2 came out. The Dev's were warned about the affects on class balance in instances where they took a nerf sledgehammer to a class that just needed tweaking (ie: Bodyguard mercs and DPS Operatives). It is this lack of listening to real world player concerns because GZ's "metrics" showed otherwise that have had a major negative impact on the game imo. Damage meters and rated teams in WZ have proven that most of the concerns of the community were spot on. Healers in particular have been ignored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaulIsGod Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 (edited) The reality is that the community on this forum represents a small percentage in actual players. Another reality is that 95-99% of the people are more interested in complaining and QQ about every little thing. Someone opens a thread about lack of response from Bioware and next thing you know there is another, and another. Then the cries of game dying or F2P start all over again. People complain that staff are laid off - oh no the game is going down. People complain because they don't know the sub numbers - oh no Bioware is lying to us and the game is dying Honestly I don't blame them for being a little non responsive Edited July 23, 2012 by MaulIsGod spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belizar Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Someone here doesn't understand how long it takes to develop new content. Its not like they can go WAAAAMO and new content comes flying out of their magical fingertips. If you play the game so much that you have ALL of the content completed, I have a new content suggestion for you: outside. The devs appreciate constructive criticism, not WHINE WHINE WHINE MEMEEMMEMEMEMEME GLAAARGGH. gw1 xpacs was one every 6 months so yeah it can be done well if u have a good dev team that knows how to work with the engine they used .... o wait nvm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkerus Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 (edited) Dude, don't pretend to know my playing schedule and don't insult me with childish remarks like "go outside", or your pathetic come back of "whine whine whine". You act like I'm alone in my request for more content end game group content. Open your eyes! Or don't...go ahead and insult people who want this game to do well... I don't give a flip what the "Devs" appreciate lol, I'm not paying my sub fee to appease them. They sell ME a service, not the other way around. Bioware had a development staff of 600+ employees as recently as 6 weeks ago, and 400+ as of Friday - this game doesn't reflect the best effort of even 100 employees. It's a shallow cluster **edit**! Welcome to real life. Bioware owes you nothing but access to their game. Nothing else. Become a better consumer and make a decision. And when did you become the expert on development? Seriously. Get a grip. Their entire staff doesn't work on TOR. Edited July 23, 2012 by Arkerus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VarKoE Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 (edited) Dude, don't pretend to know my playing schedule and don't insult me with childish remarks like "go outside", or your pathetic come back of "whine whine whine". You act like I'm alone in my request for more content end game group content. Open your eyes! Or don't...go ahead and insult people who want this game to do well... I don't give a flip what the "Devs" appreciate lol, I'm not paying my sub fee to appease them. They sell ME a service, not the other way around. Bioware had a development staff of 600+ employees as recently as 6 weeks ago, and 400+ as of Friday - this game doesn't reflect the best effort of even 100 employees. It's a shallow cluster **edit**! It appears your not happy. Fine. However what you just wrote is factually unverifiable and totally none actionable. Not only that its just rude. Really guy come on. Gripes are one thing but that was just a rant. Edited July 23, 2012 by VarKoE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soluss Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 OK. That's fair. And its YOUR RIGHT to stop playing and vote with your wallet. If you are claiming this is ^&%$ customer service, then stop complaining and out your money where your mouth is. For my $15 a month, I am getting enough service to satisfy my need for the game. If you're not, shut it and do something about it. Its also my right, as a paying subscriber, to complain or voice my opinion however I want to. On the other hand ... YOU ... have no right to tell me what to do, now do ya? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kharnis Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Welcome to real life. Bioware owes you nothing but access to their game. Nothing else. Become a better consumer and make a decision. And when did you become the expert on development? Seriously. Get a grip. Their entire staff doesn't work on TOR. You seem to have the nature of business relationships backwards. It's not that Bioware owes us "nothing but access to their game." It's that we owe Bioware nothing but our continued patronage. That we give our input on what will keep us paying Bioware our money is a courtesy on our part. If Bioware is stupid enough not to listen, then we will go away and onto a product that we will like. Bioware isn't doing us a favour, mate; we're doing one for Bioware. Or would you rather that the customers just go away without giving Bioware the chance to salvage their revenue stream, let alone grow it? Because if you do want the latter, that can be accomplished, but be prepared to accept the increased chance of the game being put on a permanent holding parttern, if not shut down completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soluss Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 The reality is that the community on this forum represents a small percentage in actual players. Another reality is that 95-99% of the people are more interested in complaining and QQ about every little thing. Someone opens a thread about lack of response from Bioware and next thing you know there is another, and another. Then the cries of game dying or F2P start all over again. People complain that staff are laid off - oh no the game is going down. People complain because they don't know the sub numbers - oh no Bioware is lying to us and the game is dying Honestly I don't blame them for being a little non responsive The reality is that is old out dated data. The reality is there are over 1 million forum accounts on this forum. That means that alot of them atleast have read the forum. Further reality would show that the community on the forums is a nice sampling of the same people that play the game. To further state, because you think the game isnt dying, there is a nice thread with decent data on concurrent log ins. Studies show that 10% of the subscribers will be logged in at any given point in time. There is an approximation that 35 -36k players are concurrently logged in. If you do the math and any of that is accurate... that would put this game at <400k subs. I believe that to be accurate and I also know thats below what EA/BW need to show profit. Whether it is accurate or not is debateable as noone can be proof positive except the company itself. However, this is what I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soluss Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Welcome to real life. Bioware owes you nothing but access to their game. Nothing else. Become a better consumer and make a decision. And when did you become the expert on development? Seriously. Get a grip. Their entire staff doesn't work on TOR. Uh.... yeah they do. That was their claim. They touted about it quite a bit before launch, in interviews and such. Its a good thing you dont run a business with that attitude because you would be on welfare in a month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuscad Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Dude, don't pretend to know my playing schedule and don't insult me with childish remarks like "go outside", or your pathetic come back of "whine whine whine". You act like I'm alone in my request for more content end game group content. Open your eyes! Or don't...go ahead and insult people who want this game to do well... I don't give a flip what the "Devs" appreciate lol, I'm not paying my sub fee to appease them. They sell ME a service, not the other way around. Bioware had a development staff of 600+ employees as recently as 6 weeks ago, and 400+ as of Friday - this game doesn't reflect the best effort of even 100 employees. It's a shallow cluster **edit**! Well said my friend, very well stated. I want to know why everything had to go to hell in a handbasket, why don't you listen Bioware? Why do you torment yourselves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KuroshimaiHD Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Welcome to real life. Bioware owes you nothing but access to their game. Nothing else. Become a better consumer and make a decision. And when did you become the expert on development? Seriously. Get a grip. Their entire staff doesn't work on TOR. Are you serious? Bioware have to appease us, because if they don't NOBODY WOULD BUY THE GAME/SUB FEE. Why do you think the game has tiny sub numbers and constant complaints on the forum? You clearly know nothing about business, and you're likely the same sort of person that believes in crap like "gamer entitlement". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthCDiv Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 I'm just wondering if they purposely pick the most irrelevant questions for their Q&A. Crystal color? Really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 It appears your not happy. Fine. However what you just wrote is factually unverifiable and totally none actionable. Not only that its just rude. Really guy come on. Gripes are one thing but that was just a rant. What exactly was it a "rant" about? I would classify is as my "opinion", not a "rant". I don't like people pretending to know my playing habits when they have no clue. I'm not happy with the lack of development at all - I'm sick of seeing more and more names disappear each week. Everything I typed WAS accurate, to the best of my knowledge. If there's something you believe to be incorrect, please correct me. I'm open to being proven wrong, but I don't believe I am. There WERE 600+ employees in Austin not long ago, that is verifiable. If you believe they didn't all work on SWTOR, please tell me what they were working on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunafox Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 This is a truely sad post. Yes please continue to blaim the customers. It is not the customers who produced a half *** product. If in fact you are not only seeing, what you call "QQ", on the forums... but also in game as well... what does that tell you? It tells me that there are alot of unsatisfied customers. If there are alot of unsatisfied customers... that useually means a poor product. So yes, please keep blaming the customers as to why the game cannot maintain subscriptions. There is a difference between customers and QQ'ers, and alot of that difference comes from maturity, and that seems to be lacking here, judging from the postings. YOU may think the product is poor, but I DON'T. What about my game experience getting ruined by people who constantly snivel and whine, when they're given things in a reasonable span of time. I suppose y'all are so productive in your own work, huh? Put it this way, if you don't like the cookie, don't eat...but don't create 14 threads about how much the cookie sucks. It's called the door, use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishfino Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 I'm just wondering if they purposely pick the most irrelevant questions for their Q&A. Crystal color? Really? Easier to answer with no promises of soon included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soluss Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 (edited) There is a difference between customers and QQ'ers, and alot of that difference comes from maturity, and that seems to be lacking here, judging from the postings. YOU may think the product is poor, but I DON'T. What about my game experience getting ruined by people who constantly snivel and whine, when they're given things in a reasonable span of time. I suppose y'all are so productive in your own work, huh? Put it this way, if you don't like the cookie, don't eat...but don't create 14 threads about how much the cookie sucks. It's called the door, use it. Many people have used that door. Once that subscription number drops below 500k.... that door will be used by you too. I believe it already has.... time will tell. The game you love so much will be sitting next to the last star wars game. They will go F2P first, to try and save it, but not many people like that model. I know I dont. If you thinking that I am sitting here hoping the game dies, you are dead wrong. I love this game... its just stale at this point and needs new life. Life that the developers have no idea how to create nor do it in a timely matter. The devs are in panic mode and cant get **** done. WIth a team of 400+ people... you think we could get some timely, working, content. Hell there was more taken out of this game, since beta days, then has been added to it. I used to be like you, defend the game to its death. However....5 months of dailies and 3 months of the same 4 raid bosses gets old fast. Edited July 23, 2012 by Soluss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthCDiv Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 QQ'ers are the people who care enough to come on these forums and tell BW when they've messed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkerus Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 You know BW has several branches right and each of those branches works on something different? You know that right? It's not wrong to assume everyone of the 400 austin employees are working on swtor. I didn't know it was a FACT that all of bioware Austin is working on TOR. Care to point me to the official press release that says this? There isn't one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuscad Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 I didn't know it was a FACT that all of bioware Austin is working on TOR. Care to point me to the official press release that says this? There isn't one. http://www.bioware.com/careers/austin/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkerus Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 http://www.bioware.com/careers/austin/ That just means that studio has that project. That doesn't mean all 400 people are working on TOR or only TOR. look at the job postings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soluss Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Have you read ANYTHING here? The cognitive dissonance is disgusting. To be fair, every arguement you have in this thread, you belittle people in everyone of them. If you have an opinion or arguement that is fine... to insult people because it differs, is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dokar Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 That just means that studio has that project. That doesn't mean all 400 people are working on TOR or only TOR. look at the job postings. You proof they have other projects at Bioware Austin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuscad Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 That just means that studio has that project. That doesn't mean all 400 people are working on TOR or only TOR. look at the job postings. Does it list anything else that Bioware Austin is working on? This game is the only thing that Bioware Austin has worked on to date: http://www.giantbomb.com/bioware-austin/65-7184/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cshouston Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 There WERE 600+ employees in Austin not long ago, that is verifiable. If you believe they didn't all work on SWTOR, please tell me what they were working on. Uh, read the article... assuming you can. That 600 employee figure includes EA Sports Austin and the customer support staff. So no, they didn't all work on SWTOR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dokar Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Uh, read the article... assuming you can. That 600 employee figure includes EA Sports Austin and the customer support staff. So no, they didn't all work on SWTOR. Thank you for clearing the numbers up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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