Sniper/Gunslingers need a redesign?

[NoTomorrow]

Snipers are an area denial class, but taking cover doesn't do enough to emphasize area denial over mobility. Taking cover should take longer to set-up than it does now too more emphasize set-up and area denial over just taking cover wherever and whenever you feel like.

 

Any sniper that is out of cover is a free kill. What class do you play btw? What motivated you to hate sniper cover so much? i am not the mood to data mine your posts on this forum but i suspect to see many more ridiculous suggestions.

Edited July 22, 2012 by NoTomorrow

[Aaroneus]

i can't believe this is happening. seriously? A thread crying for a nerf to snipers? Unbelievable. the sniper's con's weigh equal to the pro's, and one big con is squishiness. asking for a cast time on crouch? wow... I'm speechless.

[fujeo-finel]

Any sniper that is out of cover is a free kill. What class do you play btw? What motivated you to hate sniper cover so much? i am not the mood to data mine your posts on this forum but i suspect to see many more ridiculous suggestions.

 

Don't get all emotional now. Don't you think having to actually think about where and when you take cover would generate more skill oriented play?

[NoTomorrow]

Don't get all emotional now. Don't you think having to actually think about where and when you take cover would generate more skill oriented play?

 

Lol. Tell me what class you play and the we will talk about skill.

[MalakDawnfire]

Take Cover (cover anywhere, not natural cover) should be a 2 second cast. If you want to be a seige tank, then it should take 2 seconds to seige.

 

Deal. Instead of increasing our range by a modest 5 meters from the usual ranged DPS, instead let us shoot across the map but we'll also need a sweet Siege animation and sound effect, hopefully something akin to Starcraft.

 

Splash damage is a bonus.

[fujeo-finel]

Lol. Tell me what class you play and the we will talk about skill.

 

Arsenal Merc.

[silent-sniper]

Snipers don't need rethinking, I honestly think these should be the benchmark for all ranged classes, this is coming from a sentinel and healer commando

 

They are one of the best thought out classes, they have a clear job which they fulfil well

[BigfootNZ]

Cover-Gives 20% ranged defense boost,immune to leaps/pulls and interrupts

 

Our 4 primary attacks (CB, Aimshot, Speedshot, XS) are all Channeled or have cast timers of 1.5+ seconds... so yeah we need cover to function or we can be shut down completely.., hell any KB used to knock us out of cover before 1.2 and it was a nightmare being in a battle with KB's going off left right and center, felt like a damn pin ball at least now i can keep fighting even though the kb might knock me into a position I have to get up from and reposition again.

 

Knockbacks-Ambush,knocks target back a small distance,cover pulse-AOE knockback 10 meters and roots targets for a few seconds

 

Aimshot knockback is a skill we have to invest points in and it doesnt work on full resolve targets and fills the resovel about 1 3rd, Concussion Blast is nice, doesnt work on full resolve, fills resolve by about half and the root is broken on damage, let me repeat that BROKEN ON DAMAGE.

 

Roots-Leg shot,immobilizes target for 4 second(Not sure on that,could be less),Aoe KB root

 

Legshot breaks on damage after 2 seconds, let me again repeat that BREAKS ON DAMAGE AFTER 2 SECONDS

 

High damaging AOE abilities with no minimum distance required that persist through death

 

Errr they DO vanish on death so please get your facts straight for crying out loud.

 

20 second cc immunity.

 

We have to remain in place for it to work and if we move it ends

 

AOE shield that reduces damage taken by your team.

 

Underused ability that is VERY good and you want us to loose that?... why not stick near your slinger/sniper so that you can take advantage of its benefits some time.

 

AOE CC

 

That breaks on damage and will normally be broken within a couple of seconds by some aoe happy JK or SW

 

 

So please OP, please go away... wonder what the OP is, might be interesting to find out... think its just some attempt at deflection from Mara nerf threads, thing is there are more slinger/sniper in the WZ's as of late and I bet its people jumping onto em thinking there the new FotM... thing is we've been one of the most static unchanging classes since launch so we've more or less always been like we are now, people are only now starting to appreciating or fearing what we can do.

 

Heck in void star yesterday I had a scoundrel healing me non stop hiding in a corner and I was murdering people left right and center for over 5 minutes at the left door even when i had 2-3 people on me... was fun, rare occurrence, but fun.

 

And to the OP , I play a Merc also... and yes you guys need a boost, really really stinky class but please dont cry nerf on us simply because your under powered.... isnt our fault. Ive seen sage/sorc DPS thats off the chart so to me their perfectly fine.

 

Buff Mercs, leave us slingers alone!

 

Don't get all emotional now. Don't you think having to actually think about where and when you take cover would generate more skill oriented play?

 

Umm Cover in open ground you get the 20% bonus to range defense, but not COVER benefits. Cover benefits ie being behind an actual object is different. While in cover behind an object near a cover point you can as long as your not attacking completely negate alot of ranged attacks. I might have this wrong, but often if your behind an object and visually bent over with your head down and a ranged attacker shoots you it can result in a 'cover' pop over your head indicating cover negated that attack. Being out in the open ground but behind your blue little screen doesnt give you this... melee can still tear you a new one no matter where you take cover.

 

So cover placement is something we consider DO consider during a battle. But often since it only works against a few specific classes and the battle changes quickly its often easier to forgo cover benefits and just plonk down where we can get to work faster.

 

If there where alot less melee saber wielding drongos in WZ's taking cover behind an object for its other bonus might actually be worth it, and fun. Id love to see a purely ranged (non force) fight.

Edited July 22, 2012 by BigfootNZ

[ColeWorld]

This forum is getting really . . . really bad.

 

The man has a legitimate complaint that is his opinion. I don't think someone would go as far as to bring up something to try and deflect attention from a class that CAN be toned down.

 

 

On a serious note I don't believe Snipers/Slingers need a tone down. If anything the other ranged DPS need to be toned up to their level. Snipers can seem daunting if you don't know how to combat them, and some classes don't have the tools to do it. At the same time Snipers don't have the tools to effectively take out other classes as well. This is what adds this thing called 'variety' to a warzone which makes for a healthier pvp community.

[Aehgo]

So please OP, please go away... wonder what the OP is, might be interesting to find out... think its just some attempt at deflection from Mara nerf threads, thing is there are more slinger/sniper in the WZ's as of late and I bet its people jumping onto em thinking there the new FotM... thing is we've been one of the most static unchanging classes since launch so we've more or less always been like we are now, people are only now starting to appreciating or fearing what we can do.

 

Heck in void star yesterday I had a scoundrel healing me non stop hiding in a corner and I was murdering people left right and center for over 5 minutes at the left door even when i had 2-3 people on me... was fun, rare occurrence, but fun.

 

And to the OP , I play a Merc also... and yes you guys need a boost, really really stinky class but please dont cry nerf on us simply because your under powered.... isnt our fault. Ive seen sage/sorc DPS thats off the chart so to me their perfectly fine.

 

Buff Mercs, leave us slingers alone!

 

 

 

Umm Cover in open ground you get the 20% bonus to range defense, but not COVER benefits. Cover benefits ie being behind an actual object is different. While in cover behind an object near a cover point you can as long as your not attacking completely negate alot of ranged attacks. I might have this wrong, but often if your behind an object and visually bent over with your head down and a ranged attacker shoots you it can result in a 'cover' pop over your head indicating cover negated that attack. Being out in the open ground but behind your blue little screen doesnt give you this... melee can still tear you a new one no matter where you take cover.

 

So cover placement is something we consider DO consider during a battle. But often since it only works against a few specific classes and the battle changes quickly its often easier to forgo cover benefits and just plonk down where we can get to work faster.

 

If there where alot less melee saber wielding drongos in WZ's taking cover behind an object for its other bonus might actually be worth it, and fun. Id love to see a purely ranged (non force) fight.

You know all KB fill resolve right?That includes the sage and Merc ones aswell.All CCs break on damage,the other two ranged classes have to cast a single target and snipers have an instant AOE one,with range.Umm lets see Sages and Mercs main abilities in the caster trees are Tracer,Disturbance,Turbulance,unload etc,they can be interrupted,why should't the sniper be too?Orbital strike stays even if the caster dies?Snipers need to be brought in line with the other ranged classes because at the moment they are far superior to both.

[Aehgo]

Also why are people taking this so personally?

[KBSIP]

Also why are people taking this so personally?

 

classes always get the most pissed the first time they get the OP complaints, let the cycle begin! MWAHAHAHAHA

[Aehgo]

I was going to reply in-depth, but then I read this:

so I'm not going to reply to all of this, just the glaring false info:

 

Leg shot (5 sec root) breaks on damage and can be dodged/deflected

Orbital strike has 2 sec channeling, has 4 attacks over 12 secs, stops upon death

Entrench (20 sec CC immunity) requires cover and can be instantly removed by another sniper/gs

Ambush knockback only works from cover and only works within 10 meters

Cover Pulse only works from cover (duh) and root breaks on damage

Ballistic shield has a 10m radius, only works from cover and breaks when sniper/gs is removed from cover

 

Notice, that most of the stuff you complain about only works from cover - making the sniper/gs a turret or sitting duck.

Snipers/GS very much depend on Line-of-Sight. If there is no LoS, the sniper/GS has to break cover or does no damage.

 

What defensive cooldowns does the sage have?Force speed?Against any competent melee you will be rooted/slowed/charged/pulled.The bubble will stop one 3k hit.The sage his light armor,as the caster tree it can either try run and get roflstomped,try cast and get interrupted.Wheras the sniper can pop his defensive cooldowns,be immune to cc have damage absorbing shield,an aoe shield that protects anybody near hiim,can call a strong AOE on top of himself to detire melees,CC a group of enemies and KB and root any melee near him.

[Aehgo]

classes always get the most pissed the first time they get the OP complaints, let the cycle begin! MWAHAHAHAHA

 

Well they are op compared to the other ranged classes,you can tell by going into 10-49 warzones everybody is rolling either a powertech or sniper.

[KretanMelithorn]

Orbital strike stays even if the caster dies?

 

It doesn't.

[Sagaboy]

Cover-Gives 20% ranged defense boost,immune to leaps/pulls and interrupts

-sniper has to be in cover or can spec to have this for 6 seconds after exiting cover

-the sniper is stationary (my advice LoS, DoT, etc the sniper and keep on moving)

 

Knockbacks-Ambush,knocks target back a small distance,cover pulse-AOE knockback 10 meters and roots targets for a few seconds

-several classes have KB + root or slow combo

-The ambush KB like the commando stock strike KB (which mind you doesn't have a 2.5 sec cast time) has to be specc'ed into

 

Roots-Leg shot,immobilizes target for 4 second(Not sure on that,could be less),Aoe KB root

-And did you know that Leg shot can miss or be dodged? Didn't think you did.

 

High damaging AOE abilities with no minimum distance required that persist through death

-Please don't lie. Once the sniper dies the AoE (Orbital), plasma probe, etc go away.

-It has a 2 or 3 second cooldown (can't be bothered to check atm) which can be reduced with talents

-it's not instant which is actually a big negative in terms of PvP, but I digress

 

20 second cc immunity.

-Once you put down that CC immunity you can not move or it's gone

-A little known fact is that a MM sniper can stop the CC immunity, but (and here's the kicker) there is such a lack of snipers around that everyone just assumes it's 100% immunity. You want to counter this bring another MM sniper.

 

AOE shield that reduces damage taken by your team.

-Ask a sniper exactly how much damage is *absorbed* not reduced. They probably don't know. BW in their infinite wisdom of vagueness still to this day doesn't actually tell us how much damage is soaks up. I can say it isn't much.

-There are 2 shields. One that ups your dodge by 100% which last 3 seconds - I believe 4 seconds with PvP set bonus. What all this means is that for a very short period of time a sniper is hard to hit/kill, but trust and believe it is possible.

 

AOE CC

-that is broken if a rat so much as pisses in the wind and a droplet of said piss lands on one of those CC'd people

 

 

Compare this to other caster classes like the Sage telekinetics and Mercenary Arsenal trees.

The sage and Merc can get interrupted,they can get leapt to,their AoEs aren't as strong as sniper,they have no roots((I may be wrong)) and they dont hit near as hard as sniper.They have no immunity to cc,the sage has no defensive cooldowns and mercs have no escapes.Both Merc and Sage have single target CCs that require a 2 second cast time.Just seems to me if you compare the casters,sniper is by far the best wiith its uninterruptability and being unleapable..

 

So you make a generalization concerning snipers and then compare them to specific specs of other classes. Here is some food for thought. Different specs have different drawbacks. Sniper specs can give up burst dps, survivability, or sustained dps. The same can be said for other classes. Instead of trying to figure out how to nerf a class that actually takes some talent to be done "right." consider working at not (for lack of a better word) sucking. As a V-rank 90 sniper I know some sorcs and aresenal merc who regularly hand me my lunch. Stop wallowing in mediocrity and despair - figure out ways around your perceived weakness.

[KBSIP]

^ for a guy who "knows" this class you have a lot of mistakes.

 

namely, the sniper bubble offers a FLAT 20% damage reduction bonus to all within it. its not an absorption. you're thinking of shield probe, an ADDITIONAL defensive cooldown besides evasion.

[vimm]

Cover-Gives 20% ranged defense boost,immune to leaps/pulls and interrupts

Knockbacks-Ambush,knocks target back a small distance,cover pulse-AOE knockback 10 meters and roots targets for a few seconds

Roots-Leg shot,immobilizes target for 4 second(Not sure on that,could be less),Aoe KB root

High damaging AOE abilities with no minimum distance required that persist through death

20 second cc immunity.

AOE shield that reduces damage taken by your team.

AOE CC

 

Compare this to other caster classes like the Sage telekinetics and Mercenary Arsenal trees.

The sage and Merc can get interrupted,they can get leapt to,their AoEs aren't as strong as sniper,they have no roots((I may be wrong)) and they dont hit near as hard as sniper.They have no immunity to cc,the sage has no defensive cooldowns and mercs have no escapes.Both Merc and Sage have single target CCs that require a 2 second cast time.Just seems to me if you compare the casters,sniper is by far the best wiith its uninterruptability and being unleapable..

 

Ambush is talented to knock back in the Marksman tree.

 

Orbital Strike does not persist through death.

 

You mentioned Cover Pulse twice.

 

Leg Shot lasts 5 seconds, but ends prematurely on damage after 2 seconds.

[NoTomorrow]

So please OP, please go away... wonder what the OP is, might be interesting to find out... think its just some attempt at deflection from Mara nerf threads, thing is there are more slinger/sniper in the WZ's as of late and I bet its people jumping onto em thinking there the new FotM... thing is we've been one of the most static unchanging classes since launch so we've more or less always been like we are now, people are only now starting to appreciating or fearing what we can do.

 

Heck in void star yesterday I had a scoundrel healing me non stop hiding in a corner and I was murdering people left right and center for over 5 minutes at the left door even when i had 2-3 people on me... was fun, rare occurrence, but fun.

 

And to the OP , I play a Merc also... and yes you guys need a boost, really really stinky class but please dont cry nerf on us simply because your under powered.... isnt our fault. Ive seen sage/sorc DPS thats off the chart so to me their perfectly fine.

 

Buff Mercs, leave us slingers alone!

 

 

 

Umm Cover in open ground you get the 20% bonus to range defense, but not COVER benefits. Cover benefits ie being behind an actual object is different. While in cover behind an object near a cover point you can as long as your not attacking completely negate alot of ranged attacks. I might have this wrong, but often if your behind an object and visually bent over with your head down and a ranged attacker shoots you it can result in a 'cover' pop over your head indicating cover negated that attack. Being out in the open ground but behind your blue little screen doesnt give you this... melee can still tear you a new one no matter where you take cover.

 

So cover placement is something we consider DO consider during a battle. But often since it only works against a few specific classes and the battle changes quickly its often easier to forgo cover benefits and just plonk down where we can get to work faster.

 

If there where alot less melee saber wielding drongos in WZ's taking cover behind an object for its other bonus might actually be worth it, and fun. Id love to see a purely ranged (non force) fight.

 

He said his classrs above. Imagine he is a tank assassin lol )

[vimm]

From a ranged DPS Sage perspective:

A Sniper/Gunslinger runs close to you, crouches down in cover and knocks you back with a baseline non talented ability. Immobilized for 2 to 5 seconds (non removable by sage). Deals damage. Then proceeds to leg shot you for damage and another 2 to 5 seconds of becoming immobilized (non removable by sage). By this time, any work toward your resolve from the initial knock back has faded and they proceed to hit you with a flash bomb. Then they simply finish you off.

 

And since they have me immobilized (rooted) in place where they want me, there is no option for line of sight for survival.

 

Now lets look at what options I have as a ranged DPS sage to counter this. Now remember this is provided that the sniper/gunslinger is at Zero resolve. If they have full resolve I'm completely helpless.

"Break Free Ability" = provided it is not on cool down, will only break the first root. Will not save me from the leg shot or flash grenade.

2 second stun = is equal to the minimum duration of the first root. Both roots lasts a full five seconds without taking damage.

CC = if not talented for the instant cast, you won't get the spell off before your dead.

Knock Back = Ineffective =I have already been knocked backed and rooted, they are out of range.

Force Speed = Useless while immobilized.

Force Slow = Useless as they are standing still anyway behind their screen.

 

Now for those trying to cry your cover as a weakness...

You can take cover anywhere (kneel down). You can use cover ability to "roll" to the boxes or corner nearby when a melee is on top of you.

 

Sniper/Gunslinger = medium armor, with 2 baseline abilities that can immobilize for 2 to 5 seconds without being affected by resolve.

Sage/Inquisitor = Light Armor, with 2 talented abilities that can immobilize (1 requires 12 points into one tree, the 2nd requires 30 points in a separate tree)

 

This disparity between two ranged DPS classes for abilities that are and are not affected by resolve shows that is it not just about "how to deal with them"

 

Why would a sniper run up to you? lol

 

Where's your 4 second stun? And Whirlwind? Static Barrier? You act like being rooted for 2 seconds and mezzed (which breaks on damage) is the death of you, lol.

[Aehgo]

Ambush is talented to knock back in the Marksman tree.

 

Orbital Strike does not persist through death.

 

You mentioned Cover Pulse twice.

 

Leg Shot lasts 5 seconds, but ends prematurely on damage after 2 seconds.

 

Mentioned it twice because its a root and a KB,so it goes under the root catagory and the KB catagory

[vimm]

Mentioned it twice because its a root and a KB,so it goes under the root catagory and the KB catagory

 

Sure, but it does no damage, so you can't root people with it if their resolve bar is full.

[yoyodar]

From a ranged DPS Sage perspective:

A Sniper/Gunslinger runs close to you, crouches down in cover and knocks you back with a baseline non talented ability. Immobilized for 2 to 5 seconds (non removable by sage). Deals damage. Then proceeds to leg shot you for damage and another 2 to 5 seconds of becoming immobilized (non removable by sage). By this time, any work toward your resolve from the initial knock back has faded and they proceed to hit you with a flash bomb. Then they simply finish you off.

 

And since they have me immobilized (rooted) in place where they want me, there is no option for line of sight for survival.

 

Now lets look at what options I have as a ranged DPS sage to counter this. Now remember this is provided that the sniper/gunslinger is at Zero resolve. If they have full resolve I'm completely helpless.

"Break Free Ability" = provided it is not on cool down, will only break the first root. Will not save me from the leg shot or flash grenade.

2 second stun = is equal to the minimum duration of the first root. Both roots lasts a full five seconds without taking damage.

CC = if not talented for the instant cast, you won't get the spell off before your dead.

Knock Back = Ineffective =I have already been knocked backed and rooted, they are out of range.

Force Speed = Useless while immobilized.

Force Slow = Useless as they are standing still anyway behind their screen.

 

Now for those trying to cry your cover as a weakness...

You can take cover anywhere (kneel down). You can use cover ability to "roll" to the boxes or corner nearby when a melee is on top of you.

 

Sniper/Gunslinger = medium armor, with 2 baseline abilities that can immobilize for 2 to 5 seconds without being affected by resolve.

Sage/Inquisitor = Light Armor, with 2 talented abilities that can immobilize (1 requires 12 points into one tree, the 2nd requires 30 points in a separate tree)

 

This disparity between two ranged DPS classes for abilities that are and are not affected by resolve shows that is it not just about "how to deal with them"

 

Sorry if this has already been said but both the roots and the flash bang break on damage so they can't kill you well your rooted and cc with the examples so they are realy only usefull against melee dps to get away so we don't die in 5 seconds

[KBSIP]

Sorry if this has already been said but both the roots and the flash bang break on damage so they can't kill you well your rooted and cc with the examples so they are realy only usefull against melee dps to get away so we don't die in 5 seconds

 

or giving you up to 13 seconds holding back MDPS from interrupting a cap, excellent and powerful abilities for objective based PVP.

[NoTomorrow]

or giving you up to 13 seconds holding back MDPS from interrupting a cap, excellent and powerful abilities for objective based PVP.

 

Mindtrap and sleeping dart would like to have a word with you.