To the Anonymous Insider

[Tic-]

I've been here since march 2011, and seen some really cool things in beta that got changed because of the fanboy whining.

 

Beacuse of that whining, the stat system was dumbed down, the modding system was dumbed down, and people whining that they don't feel like they're progressing because nearly everything was moddable, we lost a ton of useful armor styles.

 

Because the wow pvp fanboy whining, we got expertise which ruined level 50 pvp.

 

Because of wow fanboy whining missing Dalaran, we got the fleet added late. Which killed planet traffic.

 

I'm not saying all BW did was bad, they did make some good changes. For the longest time they refused to link the taxi hubs, and you had to make one hop to the next. That's the only good change I can think of right now.

 

I predicted in the beta forums what was going to happen. They'd sell a ton of boxes/downloads, but they'd be merging servers 6 months after release. Contrary to what BW calls it, it was in effect a merger. The game wasn't ready for release, and still isn't.

 

The only reason I am still here is hope. I don't know how much longer I can hang on though.

 

Maybe someday a "developer" will have the sack to make the game they want, instead of caving into making the next World of Warcraft.

 

I don't blame the playerbase, the ones with the final say, had the final say. Not a bunch of forum goers, that can't decide from one post to the next what they want.

 

You want to cater to the "wow fanboy"? Be prepared to reap what you sow if you can't deliver a better (than current) WoW.

[Soluss]

I believe that insider. Its pretty much what has been going on. To put the blame on the public is wrong though. Bioware has made bad decision after bad decision, its not the publics fault for doing so. There were alot of great things, in beta, that were removed because of whining. Another poster gave a perfect example of the mod system being totally dumbed down because people couldnt figure it out. It was a far better mod system then we have now. Even the green trash loot was modable... everything was modable. Good classes were changed for the worst. We used to have to goto planets for dungeons and such... as there was no fleet until last beta.

 

The insider is most likely a degruntled, laid off employee but he is probably speaking the truth in his eyes. As for the full article, I found a big error in the writing. "as they opened the official forums on September 12, 2011 where as the game came out three months later on December 20, 2011. It is hard to believe that three months worth of fan feedback could influence the game that was in development since 2006." Thats just simply not true. The forums were open years before release.

[Surrealean]

This Anonymous Insider's "report" seems to quote, word for word, a post made in reply to an article on Joystiq :/ It was even posted on these forums.

[SNCommand]

It's not an insider, besides the F2P part he or she reveals nothing new, and insider would have knowledge of future content for months or even years ahead. Besides, this might have been possible before, but these days they can track you down for leaking such information.

[Goretzu]

Because the wow pvp fanboy whining, we got expertise which ruined level 50 pvp.

 

You can make a viable MMORPG without a PvP stat, but it is a much, much harder path.

 

WARs the only one I can think of that's managed it.

[SNCommand]

You can make a viable MMORPG without a PvP stat, but it is a much, much harder path.

 

WARs the only one I can think of that's managed it.

 

It's just sad that it had not much else to attract people, was a sad day when it turned into a ghost MMO for the most part

[Shadezilla]

I believe that insider. Its pretty much what has been going on. To put the blame on the public is wrong though. Bioware has made bad decision after bad decision, its not the publics fault for doing so. There were alot of great things, in beta, that were removed because of whining. Another poster gave a perfect example of the mod system being totally dumbed down because people couldnt figure it out. It was a far better mod system then we have now. Even the green trash loot was modable... everything was modable. Good classes were changed for the worst. We used to have to goto planets for dungeons and such... as there was no fleet until last beta.

 

The insider is most likely a degruntled, laid off employee but he is probably speaking the truth in his eyes. As for the full article, I found a big error in the writing. "as they opened the official forums on September 12, 2011 where as the game came out three months later on December 20, 2011. It is hard to believe that three months worth of fan feedback could influence the game that was in development since 2006." Thats just simply not true. The forums were open years before release.

 

Yeah blaming the player happens a lot around here... its sad how quickly even player turns on player and blame each other for things that frankly Bioware had the final say on. Of course its the players fault that Bioware opened so many servers and then had to merge them to all kinds of griping and moaning. I suppose its easier to blame your fellow player for all the games ills rather then properly put the blame where it belongs, of course then you would be blaming the same people you are paying to make those bad decisions.

[Hambunctious]

You can make a viable MMORPG without a PvP stat, but it is a much, much harder path.

 

WARs the only one I can think of that's managed it.

 

It could have been done with a dynamic pvp buff that they could easily adjust, and by having pvp gear rewards match raid gear in stats, and with roughly the same aquire time. Of course, that would work better if they didn't have such a large stat inflation system.

 

It was better in earler betas. A level 20ish could compete with a 50 of the same class. Sorcs/sages ruled the roost back then though.

 

Oh, and I level a focus guardian many times back then, and I could take on nearly anything in pvp 1v1.

Edited July 22, 2012 by Hambunctious

[Izorii]

Thing that makes me chuckle is that a lot of the suggestions made by the community have been ignored, concerns that were raised on the forums for months before release were laughed at. Now when everything the user base said was an issue has caused massive problems and loss of subs its the comunities fault.

 

Although it Player forced expertise in thats one thing which was just stupid. Why stop people doing PvP because they dont have the uber gear you can only get from PvP. Just dumb.

 

Although I am suprised I didn't think things had got any worse but clearly they must have.

Edited July 22, 2012 by Izorii

[Kaisernick]

bioware has done the leveling perfect as it doesnt feel like a grind i almost never lok at my level bar and am suprised when i do level they have done that perfect.

 

but as sooooooo many have stated the endgame sucks, almost nobody likes doing fp over and over and over and over same with dalies but you have to do that just to get into the god dam ops which is the only contect left that people wont have played.

 

WoW could do it cause they were out at a time when mmos were few but now there is so many people are sick of it, we want alternatives like mini games and parts of sandbox elements thing that can mean you mix it up a little not " well time to go to work on those dalies again"

 

and yes i am speaking for the player base cause you only have to look in the first 20 threads and most players will have posted that they want it.

[Daethorz]

I Agree with folks about Leveling in swtor being good, yes it is astounding and stands out from every MMO on the market, but the Largest Aspect of MMOs in general, is The Endgame.

 

Alot of people, myself included keep playing SWTOR Simply to level more chars and see their story's, but when it comes to endgame, its simply not amusing, you do the same things over and over and you have a very narrow choice of what to do.

 

I Do feel entitled in this specific category, because of some of the suggestions I have seen like a Entertainer Class and many other things that simply would continue to ruin the feeling of Starwars in this game, while i feel my suggestions would expand the universe, help build community's and simply get rid of the snore-fest modern mmos have created. At the moment, My char doesn't feel "heroic", he did when he was doing class missions, but after those are over... its like the game ends..

 

I Honestly don't care if this insider is real or not, but if he is and this is the way bioware feels, they have NOT done their jobs correctly, as i have stated, the things that where popular in KOTOR that people WANT have not been added. And this games endgame is now a Near-Exact copy of WoW's Endgame, as i have also stated. We want to play SWTOR, Not WoW, that's why many of us are here.

Edited July 22, 2012 by Daethorz

[BluBreeze]

Why people feel that their opinion is held by the majority I'll never know. Just as a counterpoint to the above. I've played WoW since release, and SWTOR is definitely, in my opinion, not WoW in space. If it was my son would still be subscribed, my grandson would still be playing, and I wouldn't be considering cancelling my subscription.

 

I watched the Star Wars movies when they were released but would by no means classify myself as a Star Wars fan. I neven played KoTAR and until I came to this game I never even knew it existed. I've been playing on-line games and MMOs for 10 years. Including LoTRO, AION, Rift, WoW, TERA, etc. You would be surprised how many others there are like me.

 

If I were to guess, people like me are who BIO/EA was hoping to attract and retain, and it doesn't seem to be happening.

 

I don't want a single player, lone wolf game. I've enjoyed that part of the game, but now that I'm almost done with the story-lines I'll probably unsubscribe soon.

 

WoW has an enormous number of things to do outside of PvP and raiding. Events, some weekly some monthly some on special occasions. Achievements, pets to collect, Archaeology, and on and on. The world is interesting to explore and engaging. Even 8 years later I enjoy occasionally just logging in to WoW and flying around. Even with fewer people per sever if feels more populated to me.

 

Honestly, as much as I liked some of the story, I now space bar through everything except the class quests I haven't done yet. The could have spent some of that voice over money more productively elsewhere.

 

this pretty much sums up my view

[Daethorz]

The summary of his post is basically.

"In WoW you can go collect things and keep busy"

Swtor needs that too, but WoW's endgame has descended horrably in recent months to the point of one small raid per 8 months+ while swtor has already released atleast two new ones in the same time, that's why swtor has beaten WoW.

 

As i have said, to Discourage Snore-Fest Activity of Players sitting in Fleet waiting for ques to pop and doing nothing else, just like WoW, SWTOR needs to innovate with new Features such as Swoop Racing, Gambling /w Pazzak, Dejark @ other games and many other various ideas such as Battlefront Style Warzones and so on, WoW understands this and has been working on Pet Battles for their game, its time for Bioware to figure this out too. And i hope they do before it's too late, because SWTOR has Piles of Potential, but if it goes F2P I fear EA will pressure Bioware to make it P2W.

Edited July 22, 2012 by Daethorz

[Synxos]

Here`s the thing.. he THINKS that gamers wanted... just like Bioware did. 7 months later, when story can`t maintain a healthy population and their subs are going South.. they are beginning to sober up.

 

You see.. people actually wanted a "real MMO", not KoToR with a sub, because, at the end of the day, a MMO can only be a MMO and can only break so many rules...

no the problem is 7 months later they haven't update the story at all.

[Nightspirit]

Oh, and as far as this game being an exact copy of WoW? BS. As someone who played wow from launch through Cata, this game is MORE unlike WoW than every AAA mmo to release since WoW launched.

 

TOR is more unlike WoW than World of Tanks?

[Soluss]

no the problem is 7 months later they haven't update the story at all.

 

That is part of the problem, yes. However there are many problems and the poster you quoteds problem is one of them. I could list all day the problem the game has but its all of them together the reasoning for the game going south. Other problems include no side attractions but im not going to sit here and list them all again.

 

Point is that no more story is also a problem but its the combination of all the lack of content that create the real problem.

[LahLahSr]

For starters, I'm sure they have learned not to use the forums as a source of "inspiration" for new features that will attract more players.

 

This place is like a medieval market with fishwives gleefully spreading unsubstantiated rumors just to stir up trouble. Wild conjecture, sweeping generalization, rampant ignorance...it all here.

 

They should sample the people who actually play the game...not read bitter retoric from WoW rejects.

[Hambunctious]

Not that there wasn't anything good in WOW, but TOR didn't choose to put in much of the good stuff. They did seem to take quite a bit of the stuff that I couldn't stand in WOW.

 

By far the best thing in this game are the class stories. Everything else is just so linear, mundane, and confining. Everything is so tightly controlled in this game. I feel stifled after awhile. It's like they took their space tunnel shooter concept, and applied it to every aspect of the game.

 

I lasted about 8 hours in the Rift beta, and sent in my feedback that they were too linear, that it wouldn't work, and I never went back. At least TOR engaged me that first day. It's too bad it goes downhill after that for world quests.

Edited July 22, 2012 by Hambunctious

[Lunablade]

This is total BS what that " insider " stated imho because gamers wanted for TOR to be one of the best MMOS on the market , they asked for many good features for this game to be implemented and which arent in the game right now.

 

- Gamers been asking for seamless huge open world for exploring and we got - instanced corridored game like its some single player with exhaustion zones and loading screens everywhere.

 

- We asked for alternative horrizontal progression apart from vertical gear grind treadmill in TOR at endgame like mini-games and such and nothing of that was implemented.

 

- We asked for appearance tab and more options for player customization and we got lackluster gear moding system

 

- We expected that space combat will be done better than it is

 

- We asked for world PVP and some form of RVR and we got untested failure of Illum.

 

- We asked for in game events and some form of content which would give to players reasons to go out on the planets and explore the world to be implemented on more regular basis and we got like only 1 event in almost 7 months since game launched.

 

- We asked for content in form of reputations with faction in the game as something which would give players more content to do at endgame

 

 

 

Apart from that none was asking for WoW clone we just wanted good MMO with its own good recognizable features but nobody was asking for single player game either but its always easier for developers to blame the players and wash themself from their own bad decisions.

 

- Pure example is their failure with world PVP and untested and rushed Illum - is that players fault that it was created as such or fault of the devs which are in charge of PVP systems for TOR.

Edited July 22, 2012 by Lunablade

[Tic-]

no the problem is 7 months later they haven't update the story at all.

 

And with another round of lay-offs, coupled with the pretty significant server mergers, I'm not holding my breathe for a whole lot more story any time soon. Certainly not of the same quality as release.

[Soluss]

Not that there wasn't anything good in WOW, but TOR didn't choose to put in much of the good stuff. They did seem to take quite a bit of the stuff that I couldn't stand in WOW.

 

By far the best thing in this game are the class stories. Everything else is just so linear, mundane, and confining. Everything is so tightly controlled in this game. I feel stifled after awhile. It's like they took their space tunnel shooter concept, and applied it to every aspect of the game.

 

I lasted about 8 hours in the Rift beta, and sent in my feedback that they were too linear, that it wouldn't work, and I never went back. At least TOR engaged me that first day. It's too bad it goes downhill after that for world quests.

 

Its too bad the class stories only make up about 10% of the game huh? I could live with the linear aspect on the planets, if there were more leveling planets to choose from. Like instead of being told to goto balmora, there were other planets i could select. This not only would give more replayability with alts, but it would give them opportunity to actually branch your personally story and give it an effect on your outcome. Instead of being told the story I could, atleast partially, create how it turns out.

[Hambunctious]

Its too bad the class stories only make up about 10% of the game huh? I could live with the linear aspect on the planets, if there were more leveling planets to choose from. Like instead of being told to goto balmora, there were other planets i could select. This not only would give more replayability with alts, but it would give them opportunity to actually branch your personally story and give it an effect on your outcome. Instead of being told the story I could, atleast partially, create how it turns out.

 

There ya go, that was one thing in WOW you could do that made it interesting. Instead we get throw-away planets, with no reason to go back, and we have to see them in the same order over, and over, and over while leveling alts.

Edited July 22, 2012 by Hambunctious

[Synxos]

This place is like a medieval market with fishwives gleefully spreading unsubstantiated rumors just to stir up trouble. Wild conjecture, sweeping generalization, rampant ignorance...it all here.

 

They should sample the people who actually play the game...not read bitter retoric from WoW rejects.

And calling people "WoW rejects" isn't doing exactly what you are talking about in that first paragraph?

[Fornix]

Here`s the thing.. he THINKS that gamers wanted... just like Bioware did. 7 months later, when story can`t maintain a healthy population and their subs are going South.. they are beginning to sober up.

 

You see.. people actually wanted a "real MMO", not KoToR with a sub, because, at the end of the day, a MMO can only be a MMO and can only break so many rules...

 

No, the thing is, back during the early days on these forums (and even before these forums, when things were still just rumored the BioWare MMO) people were vouching for how they did not want this to turn into a new WoW, how they wanted it to stay true to the nature of Mass Effect or KOTOR (both mentioned quite often as potential settings for the MMO).

 

This held on till very late in beta. It was not till after launch, when suddenly a big number of those people who vouched for as to how the game should not turn into a second WoW rapidly vanished, and the true consumer base was left behind. Those who actually wanted to play an MMO.

 

That's what you get for listening to that vocal minority pre-launch too much, 90% of them will ditch you in the wink of an eye and never form your potential customer population.

 

EA most likely was more aware of this than BioWare, and to be quite frank, it probably is part of the reason as to why certain heads have been rolling lately. The usual overhead is going out, but certain key figures are going to be replaced with no doubt.

 

The solid base game is there, now there's just the fluff to expand onto it.

[Darka]

Didnt that blog have all sorts of spelling mistakes and "starwars" was a word used?

 

I could post the exact same thing on any MMo post launch, a vague reference to events, hints at solutions, and lot of talk with out saying anything.