Operations difficulty, online guides, and repair costs

[VegaPhone]

The idea of different operations difficulty with different tactics is a great idea, and BW introduced story mode as a step down to make it easier to see certain mechanics before they are tested in a more difficult setting with even more tactics and strategy required.

 

Having story mode is good to have because it makes people less reliant on online guides which sometimes are not detailed enough for players to understand, or the money sink cost being detrimental by trying too many times at a difficulty while trying to figure out tactics.

 

So problems that need to be addressed is time spent on wiping without seeing the tactics clearly in the operations which needs guess work, and guides not being detailed enough.. and the very costly repair costs.

 

The problem is also a lot of time is put into an ops but it is saved as a good thing, but lets say a person raids for 3-5 hours in one night, meaning they sat in their chair the whole time. It is very unhealthy to do that daily, and therefore the save feature is nice, and a story mode avoids people wiping to make 3-5 hour sessions mostly about figuring about mechanics with obscure online guides, and possibly avoiding big repair costs... (since having story mode that is toned down would help to be less reliant on online guides, with abilities that are recognizable or some way of in the actual ops there is way to learn that this is the intended reaction by understanding the action by it being clearer) however, why not have the ops for something that is challenging to be a phase just for that challenge.

 

So if I only have time for one boss, I can que for a boss fight for just one fight until I learn that. Now with a guild this is possible, but people consider it normal to raid 3-5 hours when they do raid, and are willing to do it daily. This is very unhealthy to do, and finding a guild that will make unusual accommodations to only raiding 1-2 hours until they master 1 boss is not likely which would mean a person will miss out on a boss fight, or whole raids while maintaining their health. So it becomes a trade off of what the game forces people to do becuase its entrenching people in such a situation with the guild as well.

 

If I was playing solo content and it was an difficult boss, I would spend an hour a day trying to beat the boss and no more really. I would read on that as much as possible on the boss. However, in swtor, all solo challenges are doable with online info which is good, but if I could draw a comparison, when playing at my own pace I would not try something 3-5 hours without understanding it because there are no great good guides due to being unofficial, and ops requires trial and errors with a lot going on which makes it fun, but its costly in repairs and time... which is why it would make more sense to separate the boss fights so people can stop after a boss fight much easier as it is the end of a phase, or not worry their guild went on without them and not wanting to raid 3-5 hours daily in one sitting to a chance of a stroke.

 

So it has a downside, but the upside of scaling story to be more of a small increment of difficulty for denova for example and to make it easier to learn would be great.

 

For those of you who do not waste 3-5 hours raiding on trial on error on single bosses because 1. you have good gear, 2. have team mates that research, 3 have team mates that are coordinated and thats a privilege.

 

The problem this is a group game. I cant play other characters, nor do I want to over exert myself to double check that everyone is running the right rotation to the best of their abilities. However, that should not be necessary if there was content that was indeed easier to learn from, and if raids could be chopped off into just boss fights as several phases in an ops.

 

Now I have lost 100s of thousands on repair costs which means i have to farm dailies, and keep up with raiding schedules or not raid, and watch out on my health when sitting for hours on end and getting migraines which of course will affect my abilities in game and out.

 

And I dont use any blood thinners like alcohol, aspirin, or whatever gamers do to make 3-5 hour raids more pain free. If I get a migraines I stop what bothers me and do some exercise. So the design is too demanding, and it forces me to pick up blood thinners, or not do that content because of trial and error and it being detrimental as stated before with expected raid times and schedule as well.

 

edit: So maybe similar to a story mode there can a test mode, that allows people to run trials of single bosses until they master them with no rewards but without it being so punishing to they can master a boss fight.

 

Or maybe the game should have heroics that have bosses with similar mechanics that people can learn from which then become more recognizable and therefore can practice in heroics.

Edited July 22, 2012 by VegaPhone

[DanteKardo]

I will say right now that I've just skimped through it at first and lost interest after I read the blood thinner argument.

 

If participating in a 3-4 hour raid gives you a migraine and requires you to get on blood thinners you should consult a doctor and perhaps stop playing for extended periods of time altogether. That doesn't mean that, because some people have health issues during prolongued play the game should be specifically altered to cater to them.

 

I'm sorry, but that is fact, games are meant to be enjoyable for the masses, not appealing to minorities. It 'can' be tedious to sit through several hours straight at such a raid, yes, but that is relatively common MMORPG styled gameplay and nothing outlandish by now.

 

GIven that I have to admit I shy away from any content I consider too over the top like that. I don't need the most epic gear and conclude the hardest raids to enjoy this game, infact, I don't even bother with PVP given the fact there's no way to concur with individuals spending 16 hours a day online grinding since launch. Before you ask, yeah those individuals exists, usually unemployed people living off welfare or having found another method of being sustained without having to work. Or the typical 'I live in moms basement' tropes.

[VegaPhone]

I will say right now that I've just skimped through it at first and lost interest after I read the blood thinner argument.

 

If participating in a 3-4 hour raid gives you a migraine and requires you to get on blood thinners you should consult a doctor and perhaps stop playing for extended periods of time altogether. That doesn't mean that, because some people have health issues during prolongued play the game should be specifically altered to cater to them.

 

I'm sorry, but that is fact, games are meant to be enjoyable for the masses, not appealing to minorities. It 'can' be tedious to sit through several hours straight at such a raid, yes, but that is relatively common MMORPG styled gameplay and nothing outlandish by now.

 

GIven that I have to admit I shy away from any content I consider too over the top like that. I don't need the most epic gear and conclude the hardest raids to enjoy this game, infact, I don't even bother with PVP given the fact there's no way to concur with individuals spending 16 hours a day online grinding since launch. Before you ask, yeah those individuals exists, usually unemployed people living off welfare or having found another method of being sustained without having to work. Or the typical 'I live in moms basement' tropes.

 

Stop looking for an excuse to basically bully people into being wrong, or not having valid enough arguments. I see MMO players, and they look like zombies, with baggy eyes.

 

You cant speak for everyone, and maybe you are willing to have a small head ache on a daily basis from video games but everyone is a human and everyone gets baggy eyes from playing video games too much.

 

If you want to not care and say it is because it is the norm, then you are free to do that, but lets not pretend you are not not caring, and certainly not helping the situation when you don't admit that indeed playing for extended times is unhealthy and there can be something done about it.

 

Or in other words, MMOs are designed for people who are willing to give up a bit of their health or for the genetic superior people.

 

And if what I am saying is true, then does it not concern you that if people normally get dumber, worse etc from playing extended periods of time that it would affect them in their real life, and nothing is being done about it. I am not asking for a game changer, but ways to accommodate for it. I made some decent recommendations, and in fact the way swtor plays with raids is that when people know how to run them they don't take more than 2 hours normally.

 

Also, I do take care of myself, its just I don't play with any discomfort, while others do. Can you tell me how many are playing while drowsy, tired etc? Maybe if people followed your advice and didn't play MMOs cause it affects their health from extended periods of time, then MMOs would not as many players... but we all know how people will do things beyond rational especially when its cool or fun.

[DanteKardo]

Yes, because I do not agree with you I'm directly bullying people into my opinion. Are you serious? If you can't take criticism do not post, period. I've simply stated that in my view, anyone who has problems staying focused for a few hours on a task should not do it, and there's nothing about genetical superiority in that. People do it daily at work, craftsmanship requires it constantly, artists do it for even longer then 4 hours. (Some even end up spending 10 hours straightout working on a single picture).

 

If you're one of those people that can't muster the concentration for it, then it certainly doesn't mean the game must be changed to accomodate for your own shortcomings. And that has nothing to do with bullying or insensitivity. if it gives you a headache = don't do it.

[VegaPhone]

Yes, because I do not agree with you I'm directly bullying people into my opinion. Are you serious? If you can't take criticism do not post, period. I've simply stated that in my view, anyone who has problems staying focused for a few hours on a task should not do it, and there's nothing about genetical superiority in that. People do it daily at work, craftsmanship requires it constantly, artists do it for even longer then 4 hours. (Some even end up spending 10 hours straightout working on a single picture).

 

If you're one of those people that can't muster the concentration for it, then it certainly doesn't mean the game must be changed to accomodate for your own shortcomings. And that has nothing to do with bullying or insensitivity. if it gives you a headache = don't do it.

 

Do you think this is a competition and you need to win this argument with your condescending tone while pretending to care?

 

Its different playing a video game and using a computer for work. Its as simple as that, and it normally has something to do with it being a virtual reality and having several affects 1. causing disorientation and causing a change in focus which in prolonged periods can cause head aches 2. and depending on the game making a person blink less causing eye strain.

 

These are normal, and more of a problem with video games.

 

You are saying it is not the causes, and rare cases, and using your own personal reasons to say I am incapable and not normal without any investigation on the whole situation or even me to pass some kind of judgement. That seems unreasonable and that is why I call it bullying because you don't care about what could be true, or how to make things better, since you believe there is no reason for change based on nothing, but is still willing to argue about it.

Edited July 22, 2012 by VegaPhone

[VegaPhone]

Ill add this as its own separate post since some of the comments have become off topic.

 

The game as a leveling system is by design to teach people the mechanics of the game, and as they learn them they are then tested.

 

This is clearly seen with class story missions from early on, to the end and requiring some very good coordination.

 

However, even some class stories missions require trial and error for example when being limited to only a few interrupts and knowing which ability to interrupt, but something a little research can solve... still, the game in its basic mechanics are essentially the same requiring skill rotations, and movement on the field even for end game story... but, sometimes there are new mechanics which are really beyond what people have practiced, and therefore similar to how stories scale and teach people to develop their skills there should be content that considers ops mechanics and prepares people for that as well, especially since ops are very time consuming and costly.

 

Or problems of people having too many trial and error runs will occur, which becomes a problem. The problem was also presented not jsut that 'time' was being wasted, but when too much time was spent on something people could not prepare for it can become unhealthy for them as well.

 

 

 

Imagine how people would react if swtor had no leveling system to teach people to progress making it slightly more difficult allowing them to learn their skill rotation, but instead just gave them all their skills and put them in the last boss fight for their story. Its not as dramatic as that, but if by design the game avoids putting people in such a situation then, something similar should be considered when the same negative effect can occur for new content as well.

Edited July 22, 2012 by VegaPhone

[NasherUK]

Raiding is all about trial an error until you learn the tactics as a team, depending on how good your pool of players are depends on how long this takes. Think of it as a sport, just because you are a bit special doesn't mean everyone else should be dragged down. If you can't handle it then it isn't for you.

 

In fact the difficulty in SWTOR could do with cranking up a couple of notches, some of the content is touching wow level of easyness.

Edited July 22, 2012 by NasherUK

[crazyBE]

I see MMO players, and they look like zombies, with baggy eyes.

 

You cant speak for everyone...

...everyone gets baggy eyes from playing video games too much.

 

Good job

[pure_laced]

I got baggy eyes just from reading these posts...

 

To OP: Maybe this game isn't for you then. You can immerse yourself in the story line of leveling and quests, but anything past that is for more dedicated players. There is nothing wrong with your playstyle, just as well nothing wrong with our playstyle I do find it ironic that you berate someone for "bullying" into their way of thnking and your posts are no different.

 

Everyone is entitled to their idea of fun, and if it doesn't quite match, oh well. Personally, I find the content a little too easy, and not enough of it at endgame. 10 bosses in an expansion release is appropriate because it will take several weeks to get all down, and then it will take several weeks afterwards to put them all on farm status. That would be perfect.

[RanisTheSlayer]

stop looking for an excuse to basically bully people into being wrong, or not having valid enough arguments. I see mmo players, and they look like zombies, with baggy eyes.

 

You cant speak for everyone, and maybe you are willing to have a small head ache on a daily basis from video games but everyone is a human and everyone gets baggy eyes from playing video games too much.

 

troll in the dungeon!!!

Edited July 22, 2012 by RanisTheSlayer

[AshlaBoga]

1. SWTOR content is too easy, not too hard.

2. Story mode Ops (aside from EC) shouldn't take longer than 3 hours - EVER. I don't care if you have 8 people in green level 47 gear, it shouldn't take 3 hours unless they aren't actually trying.

3. Back to my first point, if you are struggling with Story EV or Story KP or any HM FP (other than LI) then you really might want to reevaluate your goals.