Tanks!! Y u no guard us healers?!

[sauerkraut]

90% of the healers are pvp reject self healers.

[KareBarey]

I am a healer and haven't noticed any problems getting guard. If you play a healer but never really heal your team, then a tank won't want to waste his hp bar on you. Don't complain about getting focused, or that everyone needs to watch your hp bar so they can peel off anyone who might hit you. Be proactive. Heal your tanks (and team) and they'll be willing to put guard on you.

[PlagaNerezza]

I guard. I taunt and I stay around the healer and use force jump. I use my CC when I see the healer struggling. Sin tanks have great ability to keep the pressure off as well by using self heals, which I tend to use frequently to keep the pressure off.

 

So look for me when I tank. I do a good job of keep you on your feet. I see all sorts of tanksins that haven't quiet learned that our primary role is guarding the healers and then dps. I see very little protection points way to often from juggies and assassins. Mostly in dps specs.

 

You can still taunt even if you don't guard.

[vimm]

It's from an epic thread that started in beta. The quote is from that person, and I don't think anyone ever figured out what he was asking.

 

It's quite epic. Reminds me of

 

"Then how has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?"

[Leafy_Bug]

I have macros that enable me to switch guards between my healers. My taunts are always on cooldown and my average ranked wz protection is 350k+. Most damage i have taken was 777k damage in an alderaan. I trust my healers and they trust me to keep them alive. As a shadow tank I prefer to guard scoundrels and commandos. They are mobile and stick to me as opposed to sages that are more difficult to protect.

 

 

I have had my share of 'random healers' who love the guard but forget to heal me. When I point this out that he stays alive because of me he starts cursing and tells me to cry more.

[Skolops]

90% of the healers are pvp reject self healers.

 

No healer wants to self heal. After all, that means he's taking damage, which he doesn't want to do.

 

Healers in PvP who self heal do so when their team is bad, does not properly protect and peel for them, and otherwise doesn't support their healer.

 

As a tank - or really any non-healer player - it's always a good idea to look at the charts at the end of every warzone and see how much of the healers' healing was probably self healing. If it's a high percentage, then you did a bad job - at least and especially as a tank - of helping that healer out, whether through guarding, peeling, taunting, or otherwise. Always take a look at these numbers and use them to guide your own improvements on protecting your healers.

[Skolops]

I have macros that enable me to switch guards between my healers.

 

That's awesome how is it that you manage to set something like that up? In particular, what kind of in-game settings do you use, if any (Is there a way to set up hotkeys for particular players, or something else like that that I am unaware of?)

[Helig]

Because the lolhealer usually doesn't actually heal what's guarding them in pugs. Those healers can go off and sap their health on a node for all I care.

 

When I am on my Sage and someone guards me, I make sure I am helping them out.

 

^

Exactly the reason why I don't tank outside rateds. Too thankless. Even more thankless than healing - except that you're even more helpless than a healer. Disgusting.

[netskink]

Most healers that I've guarded when solo queuing don't even realize it. They just think they're great at surviving, as my health slowly drops while they're attacked - I get literally zero heals and die, because they heal themselves.

 

As a good tank with defensive cooldowns and gear, you can stand on your own better than any other class. If the healer is healing himself, it means one of the following problems:

 

o healer is not being guarded and taking high damage

o dps is not burning down opponents on the healer

o tank is not debuffing opponents on the healer

 

The symptom you describe "healer is healing himself" is a result of everyone else's failure

[Skolops]

As a good tank with defensive cooldowns and gear, you can stand on your own better than any other class. If the healer is healing himself, it means one of the following problems:

 

o healer is not being guarded and taking high damage

o dps is not burning down opponents on the healer

o tank is not debuffing opponents on the healer

 

The symptom you describe "healer is healing himself" is a result of everyone else's failure

 

Exactly correct.

[Helig]

^

I must be an awful tank, then. I last longer in solo node defense on a Marauder, on a hybrid healer Sage, and on a hybrid tank Sin in DPS gear than on a tank-geared\specced Guardian.

Edited July 19, 2012 by Helig

[Skolops]

^

I must be an awful tank, then. I last longer in solo node defense on a Marauder, on a hybrid healer Sage, and on a hybrid tank Sin in DPS gear than on a tank-geared\specced Guardian.

 

If that's true, it's like either because you are simply more skilled at those classes, or because tank stats don't do much good in PvP in terms of damage mitigation, and so the cooldowns of those other classes which do work tremendously well in PvP are giving you the edge on those classes.

 

However, when you are sitting there in full tank gear with 25k HP it makes you immensely harder to kill than either of these classes when you have a healer who is protected and able to heal you. You can burst through an 18 - 19k HP Assassin who's trying to be healed, but that extra 5- 8k HP you get from tank gear goes an incredibly long way when a healer is on you - especially a scoundrel.

[Helig]

If that's true, it's like either because you are simply more skilled at those classes, or because tank stats don't do much good in PvP in terms of damage mitigation, and so the cooldowns of those other classes which do work tremendously well in PvP are giving you the edge on those classes.

 

However, when you are sitting there in full tank gear with 25k HP it makes you immensely harder to kill than either of these classes when you have a healer who is protected and able to heal you. You can burst through an 18 - 19k HP Assassin who's trying to be healed, but that extra 5- 8k HP you get from tank gear goes an incredibly long way when a healer is on you - especially a scoundrel.

Well, I guess the "when you have a healer" part is the key here. Hence why I don't tank outside premades\rateds (finding myself running more and more on a Sage, though). Not missing it, to be honest. Taking great pleasure in running around, smashing stuff into the ground as DPS Guardian. Good front-loaded burst, solid utility - excellent in assist DPS roles.

Edited July 19, 2012 by Helig

[islander]

I

 

I have had my share of 'random healers' who love the guard but forget to heal me. When I point this out that he stays alive because of me he starts cursing and tells me to cry more.

 

Seriously? If I were you, I'd start making a list of healers to ignore at that point. Unbelievable.

[Skolops]

Well, I guess the "when you have a healer" part is the key here. Hence why I don't tank outside premades\rateds (finding myself running more and more on a Sage, though). Not missing it, to be honest. Taking great pleasure in running around, smashing stuff into the ground as DPS Guardian.

 

When I play my Guardian or Shadow, I will guard any healer I see until he proves to me I shouldn't. I don't see any reason why you - or any other tank - shouldn't. This is especially true if you wind up in a warzone with a healer you recognize and know to be good.

 

The one exception would be if you really want to be running in Shien or Shii-Cho form. If you're specced Vigilance, then you really can't do it - though I have successfully run Vigilance in Soresu form and it's certainly doable if you know what you're doing. Focus in Soresu is absolutely possible and has virtually no focus problems if you're at the very least mediocre at managing your focus. Yes, you lose some armor penetration, but the survivability gain - completely apart from the ability to guard - is so large that you should see a DPS increase - unless you have a pocket healer to keep you up in Shii-Cho.

 

At the very least, you should be guarding the ball carrier in Huttball. I have my two forms bound to Shift+Mousewheel Up and Shift+Mousewheel down so that in Huttball I can instantly and without otherwise impacting my play swap on the fly. I even hot swap out of Shien in the other warzones at times when its getting a little rough defending a node and a guard on a healer or ally could allow us to last until the respawn.

[Altheran]

Because the lolhealer usually doesn't actually heal what's guarding them in pugs. Those healers can go off and sap their health on a node for all I care.

 

Same here. There are countless of times when I guard a healer, he just keep healing himself, remaining at ~100% HP, but letting mine melt, melt, melt...

Now, if I save the life of a healer who forget me => GUARD TOGGLED OFF. I'll be back when his life points will be 50%, but for instance : "**** off !"

 

That's also why I don't react at people who spam heals on me before the fight... I wanna make sure they are good healers, and my guard remain turned off for the first seconds of the fight in order to verify he heals people. Even if the healer pass the test, he won't have my guard all the time... my guard is something that belong to the one who are having a hard time. Even if noone else needs my guard, if the damage the healer takes are weak enough so he can manage himself (ex : on-ground heal vs. DoTs) my guard remains toggled off, taunts and CC are enough. (If damage can be canceled with 1 heal, it's pointless that it becomes shared with me which will need 2 heals to cancel)

 

Second reason why I don't react at people who spam heals on me before the fight : when I roll my Commando, I can turn on my medic cell, spam heal on people, get a guard, and then when the time to fight comes, I turn on my Plasma cell and burn people with my Assault spec... Never trust people, never.

Edited July 20, 2012 by AllisonBerryman

[Maxkardinal]

Seriously...

 

What is with you tanks not guarding the healer, or even worse let some lolmarauder rip me a new one because you were busy trying to kill the opposing player in heavy armor that is being guarded :|

 

If i see this happening I usually stop healing and go AFK in stealth till the end.

 

Sometimes i say who people should thank for losing a healer.

 

100% when i do that we lose. Sometimes we lose games where we were in lead.

Edited July 19, 2012 by Maxkardinal

[Skolops]

Same here. There are countless of times when I guard a healer, he just keep healing himself, remaining at ~100% HP, but letting mine melt, melt, melt...

Now, if I save the life of a healer who forget me => GUARD TOGGLED OFF. I'll be back when his life points will be 50%, but for instance : "f*ck off !"

 

That's also why I don't react at people who spam heals on me before the fight... I wanna make sure they are good healers, and my guard remain turned off for the first seconds of the fight in order to verify he heals people. Even if the healer pass the test, he won't have my guard all the time... my guard is something that belong to the one who are having a hard time. Even if noone else needs my guard, if the damage the healer takes are weak enough so he can manage himself (ex : on-ground heal vs. DoTs) my guard remains toggled off, taunts and CC are enough. (If damage can be canceled with 1 heal, it's pointless that it becomes shared with me which will need 2 heals to cancel)

 

Second reason why I don't react at people who spam heals on me before the fight : when I roll my Commando, I can turn on my medic cell, spam heal on people, get a guard, and then when the time to fight comes, I turn on my Plasma cell and burn people with my Assault spec... Never trust people, never.

 

This is rather flawed thinking, no? If a healer is recognized by the other team, he may be their first target. Heck, sometimes all it takes to be the first target is to be a scoundrel or sage just on the off chance you may be a healer. In such a case, there's a good chance that that healer will have no choice but to heal himself right off the bat, whereas with a guard, the situation may be different.

 

Trust me, when I play my healer, it's a complete world of difference if I have a guard or at least teammates with the presence of mind to peel for me. When I do, I can heal the team and keep them alive. When I don't, it's most of the time virtually impossible.

 

This is no surprise, of course, because It's how the MMO trinity works, after all. Tanks keep healers alive, so that the healers can keep the DPS alive, so that the DPS can burn down the other team.

[Journeyer]

I'm skipping the 7 pages and replying directly to the OP:

Situational awareness~ Maybe we're guarding whoever is carrying the huttball, or whoever is being focused down by the other team while going for an objective.

 

See, the thing is, in PvP there is no way to force a player to stop attacking you like we can with taunts in PvE. The *only* thing that works is to kill whatever is hitting you. And we are low dps. So, rather than guarding you, which causes both you *and* us to take damage from a player who we have no way of stopping, we guard the people who are both scoring for the team *and* who are going to keep you from dying by dpsing down whoever attacks you. (And obviously, if you're suddenly running outta health and we tanks have full health then we move our bubble...)

 

I think your question might be better asked as "DPS, Y u no protect us?"

Edited July 19, 2012 by Journeyer

[Helig]

When I play my Guardian or Shadow, I will guard any healer I see until he proves to me I shouldn't. I don't see any reason why you - or any other tank - shouldn't. This is especially true if you wind up in a warzone with a healer you recognize and know to be good.

 

The one exception would be if you really want to be running in Shien or Shii-Cho form. If you're specced Vigilance, then you really can't do it - though I have successfully run Vigilance in Soresu form and it's certainly doable if you know what you're doing. Focus in Soresu is absolutely possible and has virtually no focus problems if you're at the very least mediocre at managing your focus. Yes, you lose some armor penetration, but the survivability gain - completely apart from the ability to guard - is so large that you should see a DPS increase - unless you have a pocket healer to keep you up in Shii-Cho.

 

At the very least, you should be guarding the ball carrier in Huttball. I have my two forms bound to Shift+Mousewheel Up and Shift+Mousewheel down so that in Huttball I can instantly and without otherwise impacting my play swap on the fly. I even hot swap out of Shien in the other warzones at times when its getting a little rough defending a node and a guard on a healer or ally could allow us to last until the respawn.

At the moment, I run Vigilance and I act as a peeler when I am needed to defend a healer. Taunts, AoE slow+Awe+Guardian Leap+charge-roots and push-charge resets. Might not be as good as a fully-geared\specced tank, but good enough if the healer has a head on their shoulders. I rarely use Soresu as Vigilance - I can freely run Focused Defense in Shien without Focus issues, and the amount of damage that I pack in a single Focus bar without having to disrupt my attack streak with sunders wins me over in the majority of situations.

 

As far as Focus goes, Soresu is anathema for me. If I am not tank-geared, I get flattened by return damage. No way around it. Soresu is, realistically, 16-17% raw kinetic\energy mitigation bonus over Shien - and even less so in Shii-cho, if we don't count Commanding Awe. Also, shield vs Focus *is* a rather noticeable difference, which further stacks with SSM+Shii-Cho armour penetration.

 

In Huttball, I also peel stuff, or I position myself for a pass, since I can take quite a bit of fire in Soresu when my cooldowns and medpac are available.

Edited July 19, 2012 by Helig

[Xienive]

As a tank, my favorite is when I guard and taunt from healers that don't heal me.

[Skolops]

At the moment, I run Vigilance and I act as a peeler when I am needed to defend a healer. Taunts, AoE slow+Awe+Guardian Leap+charge-roots and push-charge resets. Might not be as good as a fully-geared\specced tank, but good enough if the healer has a head on their shoulders.

 

As far as Focus goes, Soresu is anathema for me. If I am not tank-geared, I get flattened by return damage. No way around it. Soresu is, realistically, 16-17% raw kinetic\energy mitigation bonus over Shien - and even less so in Shii-cho, if we don't count Commanding Awe. Also, shield vs Focus *is* a rather noticeable difference, which further stacks with SSM+Shii-Cho armour penetration.

 

In Huttball, I also peel stuff, or I position myself for a pass, since I can take quite a bit of fire in Soresu when my cooldowns and medpac are available.

 

Return damage? What are you talking about? Soresu doesn't cause you to take more damage somehow - in fact it lowers your damage taken.

[Jerro]

Eh dont you know that it is more benficial for the team if you guard a mara/sent or assault/pyro (except in huttbal)? And let them spread some damage longer.

[Helig]

Return damage? What are you talking about? Soresu doesn't cause you to take more damage somehow - in fact it lowers your damage taken.

Guard does. A sith-load of damage, if the enemy's serious about killing your guarded target. No tank gear and no healing=you get flattened.

Edited July 19, 2012 by Helig

[Tankqull]

Guard does. A sith-load of damage, if the enemy's serious about killing your guarded target. No tank gear and no healing=you get flattened.

tank gear does NOTHING to the dmg that is transfered to the tank. you will be flattend most of the time if there is not another healer helping in healing as one healer especially when beeing attacked is unable to compensate the dmg done by one dmg source not to mind if its even more...

Edited July 19, 2012 by Tankqull