Executive Producer Rich Vogel Bails on TOR

[Typeslice]

Still has nothing to do with this topic.

 

Posters took the other thread in the same direction as this one. Regardless of the original post in either, the same discussion was being had in both threads.

[Celebrus]

There was no new information in the video, and they continually said in the video that the game will survive and that it's poised to be a great game by the end of the year.

 

They are enthusiasts, enthusiasts tend to like other people enjoying the things that they are enthusiastic about, in the same way that misery loves company, so do enthusiasts.

 

Thats not to say they are accurate, they are just hopeful, which has little to do with reality. If you think the game is going to be great by the end of the year, you probably think it's great now, which means you'll be as wrong in five months as you are at the current time.

Edited July 24, 2012 by Celebrus

[Emeda]

Posters took the other thread in the same direction as this one. Regardless of the original post in either, the same discussion was being had in both threads.

 

So why not remove posts that are off topic like they do in other threads instead of moving it into this one that is not the same topic.

[Typeslice]

So why not remove posts that are off topic like they do in other threads instead of moving it into this one that is not the same topic.

 

Edit: my bad. Read your sig as part of your post

Edited July 24, 2012 by Typeslice

[Typeslice]

They are enthusiasts, enthusiasts tend to like other people enjoying the things that they are enthusiastic about, in the same way that misery loves company, so do enthusiasts.

 

Thats not to say they are accurate, they are just hopeful, which has little to do with reality. If you think the game is going to be great by the end of the year, you probably think it's great now, which means you'll be as wrong in five months as you are at the current time.

 

Enthusiasts or not, the video is full of rational discussion which is by no means all pro-swtor.

[Ulran]

I was waiting patiently to see if any meaningful questions were answered in this week's Q & A, surprise surprise no...

 

I think they only way we are going to get those really important questions answered is get Paxman on the case!

 

For those who don't know him.... enjoy!

 

 

 

So will I be able to consolidate my characters into one server of my choice before the 1st of September?

Are there plans to change the game to F2P?

Whose replacing Rich Vogel, if so who with and what's their vison of how to develop this game?

What features are you adding to this game which will launch this side of christmas or are you put the game in standby mode due to sub numbers?

[Emeda]

Did you bother watching the video in other thread or just read the OPs summary? There was no new information in the video, and they continually said in the video that the game will survive and that it's poised to be a great game by the end of the year.

 

ANd you believe them because? They rely on SWTOR to help make them money?

 

We know its losing ton of players and they are firing lots of people and people are quitting and thats most likely going to make content take longer to be released but the game will survive and its goingto be a great game at the end of the year.

 

They think the game is great now so for them to say that their standards of a game isnt that high.

 

All the videos they had in the background were of leveling characters and not once did I see them grouped with anyone.

Edited July 24, 2012 by Emeda

[Emeda]

I was waiting patiently to see if any meaningful questions were answered in this week's Q & A, surprise surprise no...

 

I think they only way we are going to get those really important questions answered is get Paxman on the case!

 

For those who don't know him.... enjoy!

 

 

So will I be able to consolidate my characters into one server of my choice before the 1st of September?

Are there plans to change the game to F2P?

Whose replacing Rich Vogel, if so who with and what's their vison of how to develop this game.?

What features are you adding to this game which will launch this side of christmas or are you put the game in standby mode due to sub numbers?

Whats the true number of subs that have logged in at least once this month while having not cancelled their subs and are paying a sub?

 

Its 5 questions so added the fifth for you

Edited July 24, 2012 by Emeda

[Typeslice]

ANd you believe them because? They rely on SWTOR to help make them money?

 

We know its losing ton of players and they are firing lots of people and people are quitting and thats most likely going to make content take longer to be released but the game will survive and its goingto be a great game at the end of the year.

 

They think the game is great now so for them to say that their standards of a game isnt that high.

 

All the videos they had in the background were of leveling characters and not once did I see them grouped with anyone.

 

Believe what? Their opinion? I couldnt care less. I'll play the game until I don't enjoy it anymore. It's just annoying to see people spin everything into doom and gloom.

Edited July 24, 2012 by Typeslice

[turjake]

ANd you believe them because? They rely on SWTOR to help make them money?

 

We know its losing ton of players and they are firing lots of people and people are quitting and thats most likely going to make content take longer to be released but the game will survive and its goingto be a great game at the end of the year.

 

They think the game is great now so for them to say that their standards of a game isnt that high.

 

All the videos they had in the background were of leveling characters and not once did I see them grouped with anyone.

 

It makes them money with current amount of subscribers. It still has potential to grab some people back assuming EA doesnt kill it themselves.

 

Anyway watching a 50 minute video of few people talking is a bit boring, if they wrote it somewhere to the web, people could have red the main points in few minutes.

[Bellumpvp]

Someone said BW and EA are in the hole for 150 million because of TOR?

 

Pretty sure they made there money back with just the sales of the game alone.

[SirRobin]

It is a shame that EA is putting BioWare Austin through this purge. However, its not like EA hasn't done this before. TOR had a lot of potential, but just being a "good" game isn't "good enough" anymore. TOR needed to blow the MMORPG landscape's socks off and it was pretty obvious, pretty quickly, that it wasn't going to. I was actually rather surprised that developers with Vogel's and Walton's experience would even design an MMORPG as linear, and as short, as TOR.

 

Just like with WAR, someone up the chain needed to be sacrificed and with Walton bailing out before TOR was even on the shelves, it was pretty much a given that it would be Rich. Called it months ago in fact. Jeff, who replaced Gordon, was not likely to decide to "pursue other opportunities" due to him surviving Mythic's purge.

[Bellumpvp]

It is a shame that EA is putting BioWare Austin through this purge. However, its not like EA hasn't done this before. TOR had a lot of potential, but just being a "good" game isn't "good enough" anymore. TOR needed to blow the MMORPG landscape's socks off and it was pretty obvious, pretty quickly, that it wasn't going to. I was actually rather surprised that developers with Vogel's and Walton's experience would even design an MMORPG as linear, and as short, as TOR.

 

Just like with WAR, someone up the chain needed to be sacrificed and with Walton bailing out before TOR was even on the shelves, it was pretty much a given that it would be Rich. Called it months ago in fact. Jeff, who replaced Gordon, was not likely to decide to "pursue other opportunities" due to him surviving Mythic's purge.

 

Everything was good up until players reached 30, and players started recognizing the trend, once they hit 50 it was all downhill from there. There really isnt much that separates TOR's mechanics from WoW's mechanics.

 

Yes the style and everything is different, leveling is more compelling. But in the roots its the same PvP grind, and the same PvE grind.

 

Bioware hopes to keep players by releasing new flashpoints and warzones to keep players busy, for me thats not enough... I dont play a game to only have to grind for another gearset, and another gearset, and another gearset. To run a new flashpoint, and the to run a new flashpoint.

 

Theres no social aspects to this game, its que for warzones or que for group finder.

Edited July 24, 2012 by Bellumpvp

[Soluss]

Someone said BW and EA are in the hole for 150 million because of TOR?

 

Pretty sure they made there money back with just the sales of the game alone.

 

Not even close man. Box sales are not full profit. Production costs, distribution, license fees, they dont make anywhere near what we pay for it. Not even the digital sales. Im sure Lucas Arts made a ton though.

[Typeslice]

Not even close man. Box sales are not full profit. Production costs, distribution, license fees, they dont make anywhere near what we pay for it. Not even the digital sales. Im sure Lucas Arts made a ton though.

 

He never said profit. He just said they covered costs.

[SweetOldBob]

Quick, fanboys assemble!

 

We need to make this look like a positive thing ASAP.

 

I'll do my best! :-)

 

There were a lot of negative points gleaned from http://www.gamebreaker.tv/video-game...ic-swtor-show/, but the commentators made the point that despite the glitches, layoffs, and subscription drops, they were enjoying the play very much, more than ever.

 

Me, too.

[CosmicKat]

Someone said BW and EA are in the hole for 150 million because of TOR?

 

Pretty sure they made there money back with just the sales of the game alone.

 

I think the rumoured budgets numbers of TOR are pure fantasy numbers. They make no sense at all in comparison to movie budgets (which themselves are notoriously inflated).

 

Example:

Avatar

- Reported budget: $237,000,000

- The first 3D movie of the new 3D era.

- Shot in 3D using technology specifically invented for the movie.

- Nearly every frame of the movie incorporates CGI graphics. Photo-realistic 3D CGI is far more complicated (expensive) to design and render than hi-res game graphics. Likely required a much larger art team than was required for any game.

- I would not call Sigourney Weaver the tippy top of the A list, but her salary alone likely could pay for 50 top voice actors.

 

Star Wars Ep. III-V

- combined budgets of $345,000,000

 

I'll believe TOR cost $200,000,000 the day they show me the receipts.

[DarthTHC]

He never said profit. He just said they covered costs.

 

Cover costs?

 

Let's say 2,000,000 boxes and dowloads sold with $30 going to EA/BioWare for each box. That's $60 mil. Whee! Only $240,000,000 to find through subscriptions to cover the initial investment!

 

If subs are at 900,000 active and EA/BioWare gets to keep 70% of that (rumor has it LA takes 30% off the top), and average sub monthly cost is $14 (some 1 month, some 3, some 6), that's almost $9 mil a month.

 

At $9 mil a month, EA/BioWare would need 27 months just to cover initial investment, let alone the ongoing maintenance costs to keep the game going for that 27 months!

 

That doesn't necessarily spell the end for the game. An intelligent executive will realize that spent money is spent and all that matters is making sufficient profit point-forward. If EA has intelligent executives (hah!) and they can find profit in $9,000,000 a month (or whatever the number really is), then hopefully they'll keep the service going.

[Bellumpvp]

Cover costs?

 

Let's say 2,000,000 boxes and dowloads sold with $30 going to EA/BioWare for each box. That's $60 mil. Whee! Only $240,000,000 to find through subscriptions to cover the initial investment!

 

If subs are at 900,000 active and EA/BioWare gets to keep 70% of that (rumor has it LA takes 30% off the top), and average sub monthly cost is $14 (some 1 month, some 3, some 6), that's almost $9 mil a month.

 

At $9 mil a month, EA/BioWare would need 27 months just to cover initial investment, let alone the ongoing maintenance costs to keep the game going for that 27 months!

 

That doesn't necessarily spell the end for the game. An intelligent executive will realize that spent money is spent and all that matters is making sufficient profit point-forward. If EA has intelligent executives (hah!) and they can find profit in $9,000,000 a month (or whatever the number really is), then hopefully they'll keep the service going.

 

Game was 60$ and somewhere around 100$ for the improved edition.

[Coriolan_Martius]

I'll believe TOR cost $200,000,000 the day they show me the receipts.

 

+1

 

Let's stop this non-sense with made up numbers. Nevertheless, I still believe this was the most expensive MMO made to date and probably by a big margin. If this MMO was much more expensive and it is subscriptions are cratering already then it is not a good sign.

 

Why do we care? I think many dedicated players are heavily invested in the game and don't want it to disappear. They know EA and see tons of people leaving or being eliminated. The rate of updates has gone down dramatically. So it all looks bad to them. I suppose it really depends on how emotionally attached you are.

[DarthTHC]

...I'll believe TOR cost $200,000,000 the day they show me the receipts.

 

Let's assume 300 people working on the game at an average expense of $100,000/year for each (some higher, some lower, includes benefits not just salary; this is realistic for IT but maybe low for specialized IT like MMO development). If the game was in development 5 years (low estimate) that's $150,000,000 just in staff expense.

 

Then you have to pay for your facilities,workstations, servers, utilities, etc ad nauseum. Then you pay for voice actors and studio time with them.

 

Yah, $200 mil is low.

 

 

EDIT: The director managing TESO said they have a $300 mil budget to develop their fully-voiced MMO, and their dev cycle and team sizes are similar to that of SWTOR.

Edited July 24, 2012 by DarthTHC

[DarthTHC]

Game was 60$ and somewhere around 100$ for the improved edition.

 

Game was $60. Lucas gets some. The store that sells it gets some. The truck driver that delivered the boxes to the store gets some. The gas station owner who sold the truck driver the diesel fuel he used to drive to the store gets some.

 

If you think that anything close to 100% of the retail price of the game goes to the developer, you need a quick Econ 101 lesson.

[Bellumpvp]

Game was $60. Lucas gets some. The store that sells it gets some. The truck driver that delivered the boxes to the store gets some. The gas station owner who sold the truck driver the diesel fuel he used to drive to the store gets some.

 

If you think that anything close to 100% of the retail price of the game goes to the developer, you need a quick Econ 101 lesson.

 

It was said they need a certain amount of game sales to "profit" with the game, and they did so when they sold over 2 million copies.

[Soluss]

He never said profit. He just said they covered costs.

 

It still didnt man. Jeesh one word. It didnt cover costs either.

[DarthTHC]

It was said they need a certain amount of game sales to "profit" with the game, and they did so when they sold over 2 million copies.

 

Your math doesn't work. 2,000,000 * $60 = $120,000,000. The game cost more than that to develop, and they didn't get $60 per box sold or anything near that.

 

Show me math that shows a profit. I can't find reasonable assumptions that come close to covering expenses.