kitsinni Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 You dare to say that Marauder is easier to play than a Pyro PT? B*tch please. Pyro PT can global people by using Flame Burst, Rocket Punch and Railshot. Hardest hitting single target ability in the game comes from a melee and has 30m range. Absolutely ridiculous. . Congrats on describing a terrible Pyro, but having played both Mara and Pyro are about both equally easy to play. One you have less buttons you have to press (if your not taunting delete your character) then you watch for procs, the other you just press more buttons with no real dynamics to make it diffucult to play. Both are faceroll classes along with every other class in this game. This has to be the easiest MMO to play in history, I mean every single class is super freaking easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aikagi Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 As others have said, the issue is that healers and tanks kind of need each other. I used to tank in warzones all the time, but I just got a bit sick of feeling useless if there isn't an healer around to guard. You can still do protection, but you end up dying from it. I still respec to tank from time to time if I'm queuing with an healer, but for pugs it's dps. I find there is quite a few tanks around in PvP, just none of them go for protection. They try and DPS instead, and ultimately fail because they aren't specced for it. I honestly believe that's more saddening than the lack of tanks in a warzone. I'd take a DPS over a tank who doesn't tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iphobia Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 (edited) Congrats on describing a terrible Pyro, but having played both Mara and Pyro are about both equally easy to play. One you have less buttons you have to press (if your not taunting delete your character) then you watch for procs, the other you just press more buttons with no real dynamics to make it diffucult to play. Both are faceroll classes along with every other class in this game. This has to be the easiest MMO to play in history, I mean every single class is super freaking easy. For sure, this game requires no skill, but Pyro PT is just by far the easiest thing to play in here. High burst class with no need to setup their burst. They can just poop this sh*t every few seconds and all they need is a DoT on their target, it doesn't even have to be their own. A brain dead, blind, deaf monkey with just one arm could play this and have success with it. Edited July 16, 2012 by iphobia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
netskink Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Well its their choice..dps is easier then healing,but yeah sometimes when I'm in a team with 6 sorcs and none are healer it annoys me. I lol at dps sorcs. Really the only thing they are good at is sitting at the capped node consuming/healing to get their heal numbers up. I never vote for them mvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitsinni Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 For sure, this game requires no skill, but Pyro PT is just by far the easiest thing to play in here. High burst class with no need to setup their burst. They can just poop this sh*t every few seconds and all they need is a DoT on their target, it doesn't even have to be their own. A brain dead, blind, deaf monkey with just one arm could play this and have success with it. I disagree Pyro is no easier than anything else. In fact I would say to be a great Pyro takes a bit more thought than some of the other classes, to be an avearage anything in this game is all about equal. To be great at Pyro you need to pay attention to a lot of things, timing and cooldowns. It is easy to be an average Pyro, but I think it is easy to be average at anything in this game. That is why you see a TON of Pryos getting 100-300k damage in WZ and you see one or two that get 500-800k on average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
netskink Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I more hurt by the guy who specced as tank, put guard on someone in the VS spawn and then ran the other way. That's just good thinking right there. And it happens all the time doesn't it? Seriously I even have low expertise tanks put their guard on me. I used to take it off, now I just kill them by soaking in dmg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitsinni Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 (edited) When I run as tank spec in PvP you would be amazed how many times one of two things happens. A) DPS yells at you to guard them even though there is no healer so basically you just die right off the bat if you do or B) another Tank instantly puts his guard on me for some reason. Edited July 16, 2012 by kitsinni Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missandei Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 What puzzles me most, that i very rarely see a healer who announce from the start that he is a healer. Why? there is plenty time at the beginning of WZ while all waiting at respawn zone.. Why healers making people to guess that they are healers?.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missandei Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 When I run as tank spec in PvP you would be amazed how many times one of two things happens. A) DPS yells at you to guard them even though there is no healer so basically you just die right off the bat if you do or B) another Tank instantly puts his guard on me for some reason. The reason is in Survival set. The 4-piece set grants +5% DPS while guarding another player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitsinni Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 What puzzles me most, that i very rarely see a healer who announce from the start that he is a healer. Why? there is plenty time at the beginning of WZ while all waiting at respawn zone.. Why healers making people to guess that they are healers?.. I have found a lot of healers will heal people in the respawn area to let them know they are a healer. Usually you try to remember them and guard them. I have seen so many times now that someone heals like crazy in the spawn area, you guard them, then they run out and straight dps without throwing a single heal lol. I think people figured out you can get a free guard on your dps if you throw out a few heals pretending to be a healer in the beginning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitsinni Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 The reason is in Survival set. The 4-piece set grants +5% DPS while guarding another player. I get that, just why throw the guard on me stopping me from guarding anyone else? I guess they feel they can get their bonus damage and I will live longer so they will have their guard up longer than throwing it on a DPS? Also this stops me from guarding anyone unless I just turn it off so maybe they are trying to be the top protection on the scoreboard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryRow Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I think if they fixed the tanking stats like shield and defense, you would see more tanks. You just give away too much damage to make up for what you get in survival. Lots of players spec into the tank trees for the utility and wear dps armor. Or they play in tank stance so they can have better armor and use guard for protection medals. But once they have medals, everyone mostly thinks, "I'm not going to guard that guy and die twice as fast, I need to stay in the fight so I can watch the node and kill people." Basically, "everyone sucks but me" mentality. Really, to tank effectively in this game you need communication. Voice communication. They are very effective in rateds where everyone has a job and can coordinate. In PUGs they rarely work. Sometimes you can guard a good DPS and keep him alive twice as long. This is far more valuable than you living twice as long with your mediocre dps. The only problem is that with my dps gear on my tank toon, I often do more damage than most dps in the warzone. So it becomes an issue of how do you pick out who is worth guarding? Healers, on the other hand, often don't receive guard because they don't ask for it. Commandos are the only ones with a "stance" that says Healer. It's annoying that the other two don't have a stance you can check. I also understand why healers are frustrated. You get marked and you can basically afk the rest of the match. A good team will focus you every time. Even a bad team with one or two decent players, one of those players will go after you and it only takes one for you to not be able to pay attention to anyone but yourself. Being the only healer on a team is horrible. I feel a lot of this would be solved with dual spec, and being able to swap specs at the start of a match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missandei Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I get that, just why throw the guard on me stopping me from guarding anyone else? I guess they feel they can get their bonus damage and I will live longer so they will have their guard up longer than throwing it on a DPS? Also this stops me from guarding anyone unless I just turn it off so maybe they are trying to be the top protection on the scoreboard? People just throw GUARD at the closest person.. And they go more than 15meters afar so your damage wont affect them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fungihoujo Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I've been pugging heals for a long time- I get a guard maybe 1 in ten games, and that's generous, and generally it won't be reapplied after death. Why play a tank or healer anyway? You are automatically made dependent entirely on how other players play by doing so- and outside of ranked that means your skills are pretty much decided each game by flipping a coin. Even so- most DPS can kill you and lock you down whether you have a tank or not, or they can lock out your healer friend easily. 2v2 as tank and healer against 2 DPS they'll still destroy you unless they're exceptionally bad, because your heal output is zero if they keep you permanently interrupted. As a healer, you'll be focused every time you start a cast, you have little to nothing for defensives/good escapes particularly since pretty much every good DPS has either a root or a pull or a leap or sometimes even a mix. On the flip side- you can go DPS and enjoy how faceroll it is or at the least how much more enjoyable it is- yes, the healer classes all have garbage DPS specs, but at least you're not attached at the hip to another player, and you aren't utterly dependent on the rest of your team for virtually everything. The tanks all have good DPS trees. Ultimately- BW has not only not made healing all that great, but it's not nearly as much fun as it is in most other games- you have limited abilities, you're extremely gimped versus DPS abilities to shut you down, your healing scales considerably worse than DPS does so you're seeing your output falling rapidly with each gear set compared to DPS's meteoric rise in damage done, and you have the worst survivability out of all classes despite being the first target all the time by everyone- meaning any good team will keep you in the graveyard all game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheronFett Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Well as a tank i make it my policy to always follow the healer. This ^ If you're one of those "tanks" who slaps Guard on a healer and then goes about your merry way, you're doing it wrong. But back to the original post: Yes, it's difficult being a Powertech tank. I started out as DPS (as far back as beta), but eventually went to tank because my guild needed one. Giving up all that damage potential is hard, especially when I get caught in a 1vs1 and I know how easy it would be to just destroy them w/ a DPS spec. But...good tanks in PvP are a rarity, and are more important in the grand scheme of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oredith Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 As a powertech, i can tell you that i'm A LOT more effective at guarding a healer as Pyro, than I am as a shieldtech. true, i don't have guard, but i can rotate taunts to reduce damage, but actually being able to KILL the attacker, which is infinitely more useful than sitting there and constantly annoying the guy glued to the healer. I have the same pull, same stun, same CC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DomanSheridan Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Well its their choice..dps is easier then healing,but yeah sometimes when I'm in a team with 6 sorcs and none are healer it annoys me. Speaking as an operative, I'd have to disagree. The amount of work I need to do to main-heal is significantly less than what I need to do to DPS. That isn't to say that healing is bad - it's very much needed, in my opinion - but I think DPS gets a bad rap for the players that just gravitate towards it because they think it's easiest. (Then again, I do try and play smart in general - sleep dart enemies trying to cross to where we're attacking, flashbang a big group headed after the ball carrier, and the like. I'd rather have smart DPS than dumb healers/tanks - though I'd rather have dumb healers/tanks over dumb DPS. If you're smart, I don't care what you play as long as you play it well.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IIIGinoIII Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 No QQing , just random opinions . It upsets me when i see tank capable and heal capable classes choose dps spec instead When i play my tank and i see a sage/scoundrel i go like "YAY i get heals now :)" then find out they are dps and i get sad When i play my heals i see tank and i go "YAY i get guarded now :)" then i find out they are dps and i get sad Come play with me I only have a healer and tank I am currently leveling up in PvP. We can flip flop duties. End of discussion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimsPicken Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 As a powertech, i can tell you that i'm A LOT more effective at guarding a healer as Pyro, than I am as a shieldtech. true, i don't have guard, but i can rotate taunts to reduce damage, but actually being able to KILL the attacker, which is infinitely more useful than sitting there and constantly annoying the guy glued to the healer. I have the same pull, same stun, same CC. This. Killing someone whos attacking your healer in 4-5 GCDs makes much better sense than annoying them for 12-15 GCDs. As a Pyro you can taunt, stun, pull/peel, and you can also obliterate just about anything in 4-5 button presses- especially with a few HoTs on you or a flash heal tossed in. Other than the charge and guard (which is very good, but -30% from taunt is enough when you do massive DPS) theres just not much reason to tank spec when you can really do the same job just with taunts/peels/stuns and DPS to eliminate threats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sungas Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 (edited) I respecced my Vanguard from ion shield to plasma cell (assault) and have not looked back. Take it from me. Unless you are on team speak in a premade, tanking/guarding PUG healers will drive you nuts. I'm done guarding healers. This game does not need tanks. There is just to many powerful damage types that a Shield is useless against. Most groups want dps instead. So.......my Vanguard is now dps. I adapted. Edited July 16, 2012 by Sungas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogozhi Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I play a Merc BG and I've gotten over not being guarded in PUGs. Instead what gets me is complete lack of guard or taunts from DPS tanks. Hell, even the idea of a DPS tank makes me angry. If you're going in deep with a Marauder at your side GUARD THE GUY! If you trouble yourself with peeling DPS off a healer GUARD THE GUY! And TAUNT! The worst of these tanks have got to be Sins. I can see they are in their tank stance, yet stacked with DPS gear and ending the game with 0 protection points. If there were multiple tanks in the team I could understand--sometimes I switch to majority DPSing if there is no one to heal. But if you're the only tank you would be more useful as a tank than 2nd rate DPS. Honestly I think being a tank is the hardest, and most useful, role to play in PvP. The thing that I thin dissuades most people is that the usefulness can't be quantified like a healer or DPS. Protection numbers don't show a tank's full contribution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheronFett Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Honestly I think being a tank is the hardest, and most useful, role to play in PvP. The thing that I thin dissuades most people is that the usefulness can't be quantified like a healer or DPS. Protection numbers don't show a tank's full contribution. Tanking is difficult, PvE or PvP. There's a lot of responsibility that most players simply don't want. It's certainly much easier to just zerg and kill stuff. In PvP, tanks are usually the sacrificial lamb. You have to have the mindset that it's okay to die just as long as you kept the other guy alive so he can clear an objective. Tanks are mostly useless in PvP without a competent healer, which is another major drawback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oredith Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I play a Merc BG and I've gotten over not being guarded in PUGs. speaking personally, when i was playing as a shield tech, i didn't just guard the healer. i would shuffle my guard around to whoever was taking damage, so, if you're not being guarded, it may not be because the tanks hate you.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimsPicken Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 If all taunt capable classes used their taunts on cooldown you would rarely if ever miss actual guarding tanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VoidJustice Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 (edited) From a Guardians perspective... if you simply follow the healer around all game you've just handicapped your team. Honestly... I find the best person to follow around most of the game is a Sentinal... and really... you should only return to your healer when they get focused. You need to DPS and GUARD. You also need to GUARD different targets at different times depending and sometimes you need to prioritize your own survival. Oddly enough Guardians are also one of the best AC's at killing healers in practice due to force push and our miriad of interupts. Standing behind a healer with guard on them all game and not dpsing/capping/cc'ing... is total fail. Just because it's the healers fantasy doesn't mean we should fulfill it. The art of Guarding is knowing when too and when not too. Sorry healers... your survival isn't priority it's just a means to an end. Good healers like good Guardians should put the teams goals over their own or any other members survival. That being said... GREAT Guardians never let their healers die. Im workin on it... lol Search your feelings (and your medals) healers would you rather heal a Guardian that is standing behind you... or killing people all around you... Edited July 16, 2012 by VoidJustice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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