Imperial Storylines: Simply Better?

[Akkassia]

If up to act 2 is any indication of the IA class line, I really don't see what people are raving about. Oh sure the lines are good but pretty much the whole thing had me either facepalming or shaking my head and going "Come on really? You couldn't think of something less obvious?". I found the smuggler questline quite fun (best one-lineers in the game imo)

[platinumruggo]

I am absolutely loving the story line of the SI and I'm not even in Act 2 yet. I *********** despised the JC story line in Act 1.

[Ranadiel_Marius]

You gotta be kidding me. Act I JC is possibly the worst in the entire game. There's no tension and it's internally inconsistent. I'm not sure there's a decision in the entire story that actually felt like it had weight to it. And then you have things like...

 

 

On Hoth, you kill the unkillable guy for the first time, and you have his body there and I'm thinking, "I should probably take his head off and bring it with me just to be sure, cause this isn't the first time someone thought they killed him." Sure enough...

 

You claim no other class has the same lack of agency as the SI, but that's not true. You ever pay attention to the decisions you make on Corellia? Here you are, the leader, and really for the final few assaults you're basically choosing how you want to phrase the premade decision. The rest of the game you just take orders from the Council.

 

The reason you think the SI lacks agency is that you're nominally independent. The rest of the classes (haven't played smuggler) take orders from someone. The agent talks to Keeper, the trooper talks to General Garza, the warrior talks to fatso, etc. The plot is moved along by them telling you what to do. With the SI, you're theoretically a free agent and the boss of yourself, but the game system isn't very good at smoothly showing that. So you take "advice" from your companions and various minions, making it functionally like the rest of them. I imagine the reasoning is that the player doesn't really know he needs to go to Belsavis to find a ritual, so they have companions and story characters tell you that.

 

 

You're complaining about a feature that is in all the class quests but only appears wrong for the SI because you're supposed to be more independent.

 

I can't say that I recall any specific instances of internal inconsistencies in the JC story. And there certainly were decisions that felt like they had weight. I've heard they were handled poorly if you took DS choices, but I can't personally comment on that since I played a pure LS JC.

 

And that wasn't exactly what I meant when I said a lack of player agency. That is certainly a problem with the SI story. It could have easily been fixed with some work from an editor to make the SI seem less like a rock growing moss and more like an active participant in the planning. I would want to rewatch some scenes before I made definite statements on how active of a participant the SI is in the conversations compared to other classes.

 

My complaint about the lack of player agency was related more to how the scenes work when you are on the planets. Once you are on the planet the SI continues to just do what NPCs tell him to do. The character never comes up with ideas. He always just does what the NPCs tell him to do. There is no attempt to make the SI an active participant in coming up with what the SI will do beyond occasionally choosing between two plans presented to you by two different NPCs.

 

I mean yes all classes have instances where they are simply told what to do by an NPC. The storyline is on rails with occasionally 2-4 routes that you can choose between. The other classes though do a better job at occasionally hiding the rails and making the PC seem like he is an active participant in the events rather than just a reactive participant. The SW presents one of the best examples of this on Nar Shaddaa:

 

 

The specific instance I am thinking of is when preparing for the final conflict with the Sith on the planet, Quinn said something to my character like, "He's going to have a battalion of troops with him, it would be suicide to attack by ourselves." And one of my dialogue options was basically "Good thing we have a battalion of soldiers on the planet who owe me then." This was in reference to a group of Republic troops who I had spared earlier. I was able to call them in as reinforcements for the final battle on the planet, and it was an idea that my character came up with without it being told to him. He was presented with a problem and came up with his own solution.

 

Was it simply me choosing one of several pre-programmed paths? Yes. Was it presented in a way in which my SW was an active participant? Yes. Was it really just window dressing? Yes, but it made a giant difference in the storytelling compared to how it would have been if Quinn had said, "Hey we could call in those soldiers you spared earlier," and I was then prompted to whether I wanted to use it.

 

 

Is every decision for every class like that? No, but that would be bad as well since it would make the NPCs worthless. The SI lacks any choices like that while every other class has some choices like that(degree and frequency varies to some extent). It is a failure of the way the story is told. That is what I meant when I was talking about a lack of player agency. The SI as presented probably would have worked better if the game had silent protagonists rather than voiced.

[Icebergy]

 

This topic comes up in general chat in game often, and it seems to be the general consensus (at least on my server) that most people like the Imperial stories better. They're just more dynamic.

 

Probably because you are asking in Imp general chat.

[Sinemetu]

I can't say that I recall any specific instances of internal inconsistencies in the JC story. And there certainly were decisions that felt like they had weight. I've heard they were handled poorly if you took DS choices, but I can't personally comment on that since I played a pure LS JC.

 

An easy one early on is your relationship with your master. You know her for a few hours before she gets sick, but for the rest of the game dialogue options imply you've known her a long time and she had a great influence on you. It's also one of many cases where the game fails to make you care because the relationship is so forced and artificial. An case where the story doesn't make sense when taken with the world quest:

 

 

On Balmorra, you establish Tai Cordan as president. At the end of the planet quest, you're asked to decide the fate of the Barrager on the spot for some inane reason. Your character has no real authority on the plaent--you're just the guy that happens to be good at violence. You're about to go swear in a new president, but apparently this thing has to be destroyed immediately or kept for eternity. No one else can make this decision because Balmorrans are dumb and can't think for themselves.

 

The consular story is internally inconsistent as well, on Balmorra. You've been told before that no one knows if the previous president is alive or dead, and some even have claimed that he is now Lachris' apprentice. Once you find him, though, and it turns out he's insane, he suddenly matters. At the beginning he might not even be alilve, but now all of a sudden you need him to "sign over power" like he matters.

 

 

And that wasn't exactly what I meant when I said a lack of player agency. That is certainly a problem with the SI story. It could have easily been fixed with some work from an editor to make the SI seem less like a rock growing moss and more like an active participant in the planning. I would want to rewatch some scenes before I made definite statements on how active of a participant the SI is in the conversations compared to other classes.

 

My complaint about the lack of player agency was related more to how the scenes work when you are on the planets. Once you are on the planet the SI continues to just do what NPCs tell him to do. The character never comes up with ideas. He always just does what the NPCs tell him to do. There is no attempt to make the SI an active participant in coming up with what the SI will do beyond occasionally choosing between two plans presented to you by two different NPCs.

 

I haven't played every class story and my memory isn't perfect, but I suspect that in the vast majority of all cases, all anyone does is what an NPC tells them to do. About the most choice you get is choosing where to go after your starter planet (and that's only a choice of order). They certainly could have done a better job and been more createive making the SI feel more independent, but in the absence of concrete counter-examples I maintain all the stories are like that.

 

I haven't played the SW far enough to comment on that.

[Penang]

Absolutely loved the Jedi Knight story. Mainly because of the epic evil guy and the awesome companions, Kira, t7 and Doc.

 

The trooper storyline was boring but it had M1-4X, whom I would rate as being the second best companion in the game, with Kira coming out on top. Aric was awesome too. Hated Elara though.

 

Bounty Hunter was quite boring but Mako and Blizz made it less painful (Blizz especially)

 

The Imp Agent was without a doubt the best so far.

 

Consular...my god.....the storyline was really really really bad. The companions were horrible save for Nadia and she came too late.

 

Gonna try the Smuggler next.

[Ranadiel_Marius]

An easy one early on is your relationship with your master. You know her for a few hours before she gets sick, but for the rest of the game dialogue options imply you've known her a long time and she had a great influence on you. It's also one of many cases where the game fails to make you care because the relationship is so forced and artificial. An case where the story doesn't make sense when taken with the world quest:

 

 

On Balmorra, you establish Tai Cordan as president. At the end of the planet quest, you're asked to decide the fate of the Barrager on the spot for some inane reason. Your character has no real authority on the plaent--you're just the guy that happens to be good at violence. You're about to go swear in a new president, but apparently this thing has to be destroyed immediately or kept for eternity. No one else can make this decision because Balmorrans are dumb and can't think for themselves.

 

The consular story is internally inconsistent as well, on Balmorra. You've been told before that no one knows if the previous president is alive or dead, and some even have claimed that he is now Lachris' apprentice. Once you find him, though, and it turns out he's insane, he suddenly matters. At the beginning he might not even be alilve, but now all of a sudden you need him to "sign over power" like he matters.

 

The problem with Yuon is that they failed to convey that in character more than a couple of hours passed. The failure is sort of omnipresent because there is no real sense of how much time has passed at any point. It just most noticeable with the Jedi classes because they want to have the master/padawan relationship important. I wouldn't consider it an inconsistency, but it certainly is a failure in storytelling. However since I rank the JK storyline 3rd best and it does have the same problem, I clearly don't consider it to be a particularly fatal failure.

 

Regarding the Balmorrran world quest comment, that really seems more like a problem that you have with the world arc than with anything regarding the JC story. The world arcs near as I can tell were canonically not completed by any of the PCs, so any discontinuities between the world arcs and class quests comes from that fact. And there certainly are other classes which have as many if not more disconnects with the world arcs for the same reason.

 

 

And I really don't see what your issue is with the JC Balmorran arc is. At the start they don't know what his current status is, but finding out what is going on with him is important so they know how to proceed. They find him and since they now know he is alive and not a traitor they believe that he can return to leadership since he is the rightful leader only to find out that he is incapable of leading any more leading to the LS/DS decision. There is nothing inconsistent about that just an evolving situation as they come to understand what is going on.

 

 

I haven't played every class story and my memory isn't perfect, but I suspect that in the vast majority of all cases, all anyone does is what an NPC tells them to do. About the most choice you get is choosing where to go after your starter planet (and that's only a choice of order). They certainly could have done a better job and been more createive making the SI feel more independent, but in the absence of concrete counter-examples I maintain all the stories are like that.

 

I haven't played the SW far enough to comment on that.

Majority of choices probably are explained by NPCs for all classes. The problem with the SI is that the number of PC "invented" ideas is probably less than 1% while other classes probably range from 10-25%. So how many counter-examples do you want? If you want something like 5 per class, I'm not wasting my time double checking my memory for 35 examples.

[Intarabus]

Perhaps it's just me, but it seems like the Imperial story lines are, if not better in terms of plot, then at least better in terms of storytelling and characterization. With the Republic, it feels like the writers were writing archetypes rather than characters, whereas the Imperials...well, even the worst Imperial story line is, by general consensus, decent, and the PCs themselves seem way more interesting.

 

I think part of the problem is that the Republic's weighed down with two Jedi stories. The JK story is epic, don't get me wrong, but the JK himself comes off as some sort of kitten-rescuing robot if LS, and a mustache-twirling vaudeville villain if DS. Same pretty much goes for the JC. The Sith, on the other side of the fence, get much, much more range.

 

From personal point of view, I like more to play light side e.g Republic. But I must admit, that both Sith-Stories (which I played on) were more interesting. I do not know if it depends so much on the writing, though I think, SW has to me the most interesting story so far. I think, what makes the empire more exciting, is to deal with its twisted moral code, in the dialogue/story options.

But I also think, the agents and especially the Bounty Hunters story (the latter I found very boring in its premise) also don't live up to the both Sith stories.

[Intarabus]

Consular gets credits - this is the only one I completed so far, and I see why.

Most problem I had, that even after Tython you are so ****** in the order

 

because of your special Jedi curse cure

.

 

And then its like there does not happen much for a long time, you just

 

save master after master

 

 

and, wham, in Midgame you are

 

already Saviour of the order.

 

 

The second act I liked story-wise, you are theoretically

 

Jedi politician and warlord, and that was really something fresh. I also like that one end quest on Corellai, where some of your troops participated, would have liked to see more of that.

 

 

The ending to me was very obvious, and very disappointing (can't say otherwise).

[Slowpokeking]

What will happen if you go dark side as JK/JC?

[Rayla_Felana]

I enjoyed all of the Imperial storylines, whereas on the Republic side I couldn't play the Smuggler or Trooper storyline again, the last Trooper chapter was very underwhelming and the Smuggler storyline, I played it up to level 40, it was boring me the entire time, then decided to watch the rest on youtube.

[Rayla_Felana]

What will happen if you go dark side as JK/JC?

 

Far more interesting things than on the Light Side, the story becomes extremely entertaining, the light side was cool and all, but my second time through on both, I played Dark Side and enjoyed it far far more.

Edited July 14, 2012 by Rayla_Felana

[Dawgtide]

What will happen if you go dark side as JK/JC?

 

 

No idea on JC conersations as I played light side. I do know you do not get a legendary position with the council though and I think the JK is the same. I will say this for the JK though. I am through chapter 2 and playing a dark knight has some of the funniest character remarks. I am literally laughing all the time at my knight. I will see how it ends in a week or so

.

Edited July 15, 2012 by Dawgtide

[Sinemetu]

 

And I really don't see what your issue is with the JC Balmorran arc is. At the start they don't know what his current status is, but finding out what is going on with him is important so they know how to proceed. They find him and since they now know he is alive and not a traitor they believe that he can return to leadership since he is the rightful leader only to find out that he is incapable of leading any more leading to the LS/DS decision. There is nothing inconsistent about that just an evolving situation as they come to understand what is going on.

 

 

They make such a big deal about needing his signature/approval. It's meaningless. His reign ended when the empire took over. He was never part of the resistance and didn't assist in freeing Balmorra. If he had been dead, most people would have shrugged and said "figured as much." At least, that's what we're told early on. Then suddenly he matters for a transfer or power? C'mon. He doesn't have any power. You can't transfer what you don't have. If it's not inconsistent, it's certainly unbelievable.

 

 

Majority of choices probably are explained by NPCs for all classes. The problem with the SI is that the number of PC "invented" ideas is probably less than 1% while other classes probably range from 10-25%. So how many counter-examples do you want? If you want something like 5 per class, I'm not wasting my time double checking my memory for 35 examples.

 

Now hold on. In some of these cases, it depends on what dialogue option you choose. For the SI, you might get asked what you're going to do next (not infrequently). Only one of the dialogue options is correct, but if you choose that one, it does appear that your PC is making the decision. Since the game is on rails, they can't let you actually choose to run off and do something different even though they put those options in there.

[ColeWorld]

Thats because for the republic side they have to do typical cliches. Most stories that are about rainbows and lollypops don't really appeal to the average gamer that isn't a child (which i'm going to assume you aren't).

 

 

Todays society is where "better" stories tend to be darker and edgier. While the republic side generally has themes that would be interesting if we hadn't seen most of them before. We've never gotten to play a truly imperial character in a story driven game which is why its most likely more interesting to you to be a sith warrior or an imperial agent instead of a trooper or a consular.

 

 

If you find going out to save things earnestly not your cup of tea, perhaps you aren't meant to be a light sided Jedi Knight. While I play a BH now, I do feel slightly bad for some of the darkside options that I take.

[Sinemetu]

Thats because for the republic side they have to do typical cliches. Most stories that are about rainbows and lollypops don't really appeal to the average gamer that isn't a child (which i'm going to assume you aren't).

 

 

Todays society is where "better" stories tend to be darker and edgier. While the republic side generally has themes that would be interesting if we hadn't seen most of them before. We've never gotten to play a truly imperial character in a story driven game which is why its most likely more interesting to you to be a sith warrior or an imperial agent instead of a trooper or a consular.

 

 

If you find going out to save things earnestly not your cup of tea, perhaps you aren't meant to be a light sided Jedi Knight. While I play a BH now, I do feel slightly bad for some of the darkside options that I take.

 

What I like better about the imperial side is that LS choices seem more realistic. It's less about making a heroic sacrifice (which is never an actual sacrifice) and more about doing the right thing. Also, the DS choice for imperials is often simply following policy, whereas LS often means being a deviant.

[SWFTW]

Considering that the SI is considered by myself and some others(no idea if we count as a majority or not) to easily be the worst story out of all 8 in multiple regards, I don't think you can really say that Imperial storylines are "simply better". Some of the Republic stories are better than some of the Imperial stories. Some of the Imperial stories are better than the Republic stories. And a lot of it simply comes down to personal preference.

 

I highly doubt you're the majority. seeing as how myself and every Inquisitor I know considers it one of the best if not the best stories in the game.

[FigeroMentel]

The Republic side is hit or miss, whereas The Empire is more consistently good.

[TubaSlayer]

Id have to agree w op imo.

 

while it does come down to personal preference i have yet to be really drawn to the storylines of the republic. I havent got 8 50s so I havent seen all the storylines in the game. but so far ive seen the imp agent, sith inquis, in there entirety and have lvled a consular up to 30 so far and a commando up to 32. and now i am working on a warrior. and so far i think the emp storylines to have more depth to them.

 

but it does come down to personal preferences among characters/ plot/ agendas ect. i hope the rest of consular and commando can make up in acts 2/3 for a pretty lackluster act 1 and maybe the knight and smugg storylines can be as intriguing and entertaining as the sith storylines.

 

the smugg story is pretty ligit but the ending is not as good as the IA's. The smuggs 2nd act, howerver, was easer to get in to then the IA's and more fun i think. My trooper's story is a little better than the BH's

[grandmthethird]

imperial NPC were always going to be better than republic. stick a brittish accent on anything and you have instantly made it better

[WickedDjinn]

I actually I disagree with this the SI spends majority of the time falling on their face and its the NPC'S in the story that comes up with all the idea's and plans and the SI just follows them.

 

Incorrect.

 

The one and only storyline that really provides a decent illusion of independence is the smuggler... And that's still an illusion.

 

Because of the nature of these storylines, they are all driven forward by events outside of your control. If anything the SI spends far less time under someone else's authority than most of the others.

 

The Sith Warrior, for instance is NEVER independent.

[WickedDjinn]

This Sith inquesitor should have been scheming behind the scenes to achieve his goals not spend 90% of story collecting staff and acting like stupid.

 

Again, the story is being judged on what think its supposed to be rather than being judged on what it is.

 

Your character is never shown to be stupid, only EXTREMELY out of their depth and forced to scrape and claw in a desperate bid for survival.

 

And something else... Palpatine didn't start off at level one. This is an origin story. It's future chapters that give the opportunity for some real scheming.

[lokdron]

I highly doubt you're the majority. seeing as how myself and every Inquisitor I know considers it one of the best if not the best stories in the game.

 

SI one of the best stories in the game? Really? Almost everyone I talk to consider the SI to be pretty bad along with the JC.

[FigeroMentel]

SI one of the best stories in the game? Really? Almost everyone I talk to consider the SI to be pretty bad along with the JC.

 

I enjoyed the SI story quite a bit.