Stunned...full resolve...rooted...rooted...rooted...no resolve...stunned...

[kitsinni]

Those 37 abilities don't even include all the ones that lower your movement speed that are usually attached to highly spammed skills.

 

For example PT Shield Tech has Neural Overload which spreads a 50% speed reduction AE every time you do a rail shot.

 

Or PT Pyro has Sweltering Heat which gives you 50% run speed when Combustible Gas Cylinder procs which is usually every six seconds.

 

 

... the slows, roots, mez, stuns just never end.

[Raice]

Resolve is buggy, but not the way the OP describes it.

 

There is a known bug with force choke (and pub equivalent) that ignores resolve. So you can be in full resolve and still get force choked, it happens - but rarely (happened to me maybe 4-5 times in several 1000 wzs).

 

What I notice mostly these days is the opposite:

 

Target's resolve bar is EMPTY, you use a stun, your ability goes into cooldown but nothing happens to the target.

No stun, no animation and most importantly no filling their resolve bar.

 

I have seen this happening with my sniper, my sorc and my merc versus all Pub classes, but not versus Imps.

Might also be related to a bug that makes "diversion" fail to knock entrenched gunslingers out of cover. Works as intended versus other snipers.

 

Seems to be faction dependent - not sure if it's a bug or an exploit but it's becoming annoyingly frequent.

 

That bug where you use a stun and nothing happens happens to me. It's really annoying - I play a Pub and it usually happens when I use my 8s AoE Stun. It's supposed to Stun everyone within 10m of the target, but it hardly ever works on the guy I actually use it on, nevermind everyone else. Granted, I don't know what their Resolve status is... but I know the guy I used it on wasn't immune. Of course, if it didn't work on him, it might be retroactive to everyone else - I don't know.

 

This doesn't happen every time... but often enough that I have taken note of it in my mind that I am very cautious when I use it.

[LenrocNewDawn]

Accepting and liking is one thing, people like me that sees through the cloud put over our heads is another. I actually am guy that has been doing this since EQ and DAOC, have beta tested 100's of games since 1997, trust me when I say I know my mmo game mechanics from ground up and some.

 

My intention always is to ask the tough questions and get a solid response from people that understand game mechanics.

 

Oh well.

Writing walls of gibberish or calling discussion partners cloud headed doesn't win the argument. People that understand the game mechanics already replied with strong arguments and opinions. Heck even the game creators took the time to explain why things are the way they are. Still you remain on your high horse never addressing the arguments thrown at you but constantly repeating same thing over and over like you have the strong belief that if you say it enough time it will become true. And self entitling will never substitute smart arguments. Get that already.

 

Sorry for the off topic but he did asked to be trolled.

Edited July 13, 2012 by LenrocNewDawn

[LarryRow]

You guys have forced me to show you all the cc in the game from each class, once this is posted I would like all of you to think about what I have posted how resolve SHOULD work with each cc.

 

Remember when reading this I am on our team, I am looking for explanations for the lack of responses on why cc in this game is not being taken serious.

 

BH/Merc/Van/Troop, remember they are mirror so number of cc is the same.

1. Carbonize http://www.torhead.com/ability/aI8lmsH/carbonize

 

2. Concussion Missile http://www.torhead.com/ability/7J2uswp/concussion-missile

 

3. Grapple http://www.torhead.com/ability/hwCLZ3y/grapple

 

4. Electro Dart http://www.torhead.com/ability/9GX16Xs/electro-dart

 

5. (Advanced Prototype tree) Hamstring http://www.torhead.com/ability/9GX16Xs/electro-dart

 

6 ( Advanced Prototype tree) Prototype flamethrower http://www.torhead.com/ability/35M73pK/prototype-flame-

thrower

 

7. (Shield Tech Powertech tree) No escape http://www.torhead.com/ability/dWIm1cZ/no-escape

 

8. Jet Charge http://www.torhead.com/ability/77kSuDn/jet-charge

 

Alot of these moves come from prototype BH and Sheld Tech Bh, 8 moves from BH to Trooper has 8 impairing moment skills and skill tree dumps to provide a cc.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Assassin/Shadow/Sorc/Sage

1. Force Pull http://www.torhead.com/ability/8Be4RD1/force-pull

 

2. Wither http://www.torhead.com/ability/49pDsvl/wither

 

3. Low Slash http://www.torhead.com/ability/hnwIOeC/low-slash

 

4. Creeping Terror http://www.torhead.com/ability/bSEzqRg/creeping-terror

 

5. Force Slow http://www.torhead.com/ability/6isPPt4/force-slow

 

6. Electrocute http://www.torhead.com/ability/4HpLzfj/electrocute

 

7. Whirlwind http://www.torhead.com/ability/1CZXSjE/whirlwind

 

8. Force Lighting http://www.torhead.com/ability/a0biEva/force-lightning

 

9 Mind Trap http://www.torhead.com/ability/3nkh0sW/mind-trap

 

10. Overload http://www.torhead.com/ability/gV8Zo5R/overload

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Op/Scoundrel/Gs/Snipe

1. Sleep Dart http://www.torhead.com/ability/gWKHNkb/sleep-dart

 

2. Sever Tendon http://www.torhead.com/ability/3qtrwE1/sever-tendon

 

3. Cover Pulse http://www.torhead.com/ability/buhxjod/cover-pulse

 

4. Leg Shot http://www.torhead.com/ability/1KgmaGG/leg-shot

 

5. Deblitate http://www.torhead.com/ability/avfFa1u/debilitate

 

6. Plasma probe http://www.torhead.com/ability/5vKklsx/plasma-probe

 

7. Hidden Strike http://www.torhead.com/ability/eEqrPpt/hidden-strike

 

8. Heavy Shot http://www.torhead.com/ability/d6e3o13/heavy-shot

 

9. Adhesive corrosives http://www.torhead.com/ability/aigHXWY/adhesive-corrosives

 

10. Flash Bang http://www.torhead.com/ability/f5R2qsF/flash-bang

 

11. Inventive interrogation tchniques http://www.torhead.com/ability/dzYtqI/inventive-interrogation-techniques

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Sith Warrior/Mar/Sent/Guardian

1. Intimidating Roar http://www.torhead.com/ability/3UOGXiK/intimidating-roar

 

2. Force Push http://www.torhead.com/ability/fhFgPVD/force-push

 

3. Crippling Slash http://www.torhead.com/ability/5GMTnHY/crippling-slash

 

4. Chilling Scream http://www.torhead.com/ability/7eLd3W2/chilling-scream

 

5. Back Hand http://www.torhead.com/ability/gGGAmYI/backhand

 

6. Force Choke http://www.torhead.com/ability/6DgjQ39/force-choke

 

7. Force Charge http://www.torhead.com/ability/6X4UAzp/force-charge

 

8. Deadly Throw http://www.torhead.com/ability/4j3I3Nd/deadly-throw

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Grand Total of 37 skills/skill tree dumbs to provide CC in this game. That means there is 37 imparing movement things to worry about, also that means Resolve has 37 things to protect.

 

Outta the 37, what do you think is actually being protected in full white bar?

 

Regardless if some are not considered CC in the game, don't mean it actually isn't CC. CC aka Crowd Control = impairing movement effects, it always has been that way, and always will be that way.

 

Resolve explanation before

 

Resolve explanation from a Bioware employee,

 

Key phrases from Austin Peckenpagh is "meant to put a lid on effects that take control away from you" and "limit the effectiveness of stuns, sleeps, and knockbacks".

 

Outta the 37 impairing movements in the game that I am posting which ones do you think is being protected, or meant to put a lid on the effects of us being CC'ed?

 

My guess is 10% of the 37 CC moves, just saying.

 

Yikes, what a long and ridiculous post. I sure hope some idiot doesn't quote it.

 

Without cc, the objective maps will have one of two strategies:

1. Kill them

2. Kill them MOAR

 

Huttball will be slightly different:

1. Kill the ball carrier

2. Kill the ball carrier MOAR

 

No thanks.

 

The truth is that cc is only a problem against highly skilled, coordinated teams that were going to beat you anyway. You have the same tools they do. Keep practicing and get better. Make friends with good players and roll with them.

 

Put it another way: without cc, you'll have no excuse for why you got exploded by the other team. Now you can tell yourself "Sure, I lost that 1v7, but hey, I was stunned."

[Kaarsa]

Show me a link and prove it, then we can talk, just don't make up random % numbers without a link or a ss.

 

Also my theory isn't theory, I named 37 CC moves or skills in the game, therefore you have to consider what actually is being damage migrated through resolve, and what is not.

/QUOTE]

 

So, you make up a random number in your post (10%) and it is fine, when I post an accurate number based on your won post and well-known game knowledge it is random gibberish? Ok.

 

Now, from 37 skills you listed, 19 are stuns, mezzes, knockbacks and knockdowns. Resolve protects against them, I know that because, you know, I tested it instead of posting noncence and QQ on the forum (http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=390716).

 

Rest are slows and roots, that are not affected by resolve. Ofc you missed some of them, as above poster noted, so you know, your game knowledge may be not as good as you think.

 

I will not comment rest of your post, it is not worth my time.

[Raansu]

Do you also agree that Melee DPS should be nerfed to 50% of what it is now? Because that is what will be needed to balance the kiting meta game if roots and snares are Resolve effects.

 

It doesn't have to be part of resolve but roots need to have diminishing returns. Being rooted back to back to back is straight up annoying and beyond stupid.

[Darth_Philar]

It doesn't have to be part of resolve but roots need to have diminishing returns. Being rooted back to back to back is straight up annoying and beyond stupid.

 

Being rooted back to back is usually a symptom of being targeted by more than one enemy. This means you are probably being focused which means your teammates are able to run free (since all the roots are being blown on you).

[Sock_Bramson]

Wish my original post went through last night before the maintenance (yeah, I was up late; damn you Steam summer sale!), but here it goes again.

 

To whoever wanted charge roots on resolve:

That wouldn't be fair to melee classes, now would it? You said yourself that roots/snares are annoying as a melee character (naturally), but that's precisely why they have a charge w/ a root to help counteract kiting (along with some other abilities). Ranged classes, in turn, have a few other tools besides slows to try their damnedest to continue kiting.

 

Cael:

Honestly, at this point I don't think there's any point in addressing any more posts to you. (besides this one, of course) Your logic is so fallacious it make me brain bad hurt. I don't care if you made your own MMO from the ground up; the resolve system as Bioware designed it can and does work as THEY intended it to, no matter what your opinion is on how the system should work. Stop saying that it's "broken" and start simply saying that you want it to work differently; then you won't sound quite so daft.

 

I haven't just been "blah blah"ing, as you're so fond of saying. I haven't resorted to calling you a newb or telling you to l2p. Instead, I've actually addressed your arguments with my own. (like I'm about to again-->) Roots/snares don't need to be on resolve because a.) they don't prevent you from using abilities, they just slow down your movement, and b.) they can be repeatedly cleansed with short-cooldown skills; you can then save your CC breaker for actual stuns and mezes. Stuns/mezes/pulls/knockbacks are on the resolve system because they truly make you lose control of your character by a.) locking you in place while preventing you from using any abilities, or b.) moving your character somewhere you don't want to be.

 

All the "blah blah" has been on your end so far, my friend. Just because someone disagrees with you does not make their counter-arguments meaningless. Besides, after claiming that Kaarsa's percentage was made up without a wall of links, you don't really have a leg to stand on. Here's a hint: 19 out of 37 is more than your 10% "guess", to quote your post.

 

Basically, you're saying: "You disagree with me, so your counter-arguments somehow don't address my arguments. My made up % is better than the actual math. In my opinion, more than stuns/mezes/pulls/knockbacks should be effected by resolve; since it doesn't work like I want it to, it's broken." To use Mr. Cochran's famous Wookie Defense, this does not make sense.

 

-Hedley Melange <Physics>, Dreshdae-->The Shadowlands-

Edited July 13, 2012 by Sock_Bramson

[Ghostuka]

I thought answers pages ago already were satisfactory to the issues Cael brings up. But seeing fresh posts still I will try a different route.

 

Cael, forget about semantics and dictionary meanings. Resolve affects stuns (stuns that don't break on damage), mezzes (stuns that break on damage), and knockbacks (pulls included). And resolve works perfectly fine on those. It pays to pay attention of your resolve bar and your opponent's. It pays a lot.

 

Roots/slows/snares, they are not affected by resolve, they also don't fill the resolve bar. For example, crippling slash you quoted on your long post, is a slow effect. It is not affected by and it does not affect the resolve at all.

 

To the guy who posted a picture of him in whirlwind with full resolve bar: That picture is not a proof against broken resolve. See, the last stun that fills your resolve bar is casted on you while your resolve was not full yet. Usually, it takes 2 stuns to fill your resolve bar. If you eat the first one, it is better because then when the second stun hits you, you can use your cc break and have a full resolve bar for a while. If you don't cc break, you will notice you still have a full resolve bar, but you will need to wait for the stun effect to end.

[PloGreen]

whats not true about it. Slows & Roots are technically CC. You are controlling the crowd. But Bioware purposefully left them both off the resolve list. Why? Who Knows? I've said it many times that they shouldn't add to resolve but should be immune to when resolve is full. Why this isn't so is stupid. It's the reason why you get so many complaints about CC. If bioware would have any common sense they would have changed this. Then people would have to start using their cc more wisely. Instead of how it is now. Look its off cooldown better use my stun.

 

Why? Captain obvious says everyone would have full resolve if you added it to roots, leaps, and snares. Some of the classes in the game live or die by cc and you would totally screw up the game. This is simply a learn to play issue - nothing more.

 

Adding resolve to roots/leaps/snares is absolutley stupid.

[kitsinni]

Why? Captain obvious says everyone would have full resolve if you added it to roots, leaps, and snares. Some of the classes in the game live or die by cc and you would totally screw up the game. This is simply a learn to play issue - nothing more.

 

Adding resolve to roots/leaps/snares is absolutley stupid.

 

So basically every other MMO with PvP got it wrong and ruined their games and SWTOR is the only one with perfect PvP?

[Caeliux]

People that understand the game mechanics already replied with strong arguments and opinions.

 

People like yourself has only trolled or has sayed things like "Working as Intended", no argument or opinion holds a candle to what I have been talking about, at least my argument holds some ground and is proving most of you are in denial.

 

The truth is that cc is only a problem against highly skilled, coordinated teams that were going to beat you anyway. You have the same tools they do. Keep practicing and get better. Make friends with good players and roll with them.

 

L2P arguments never get nowhere, I agree coordinated teams should win though. Team comp trumps most 8 man teams in rated.

 

 

Now, from 37 skills you listed, 19 are stuns, mezzes, knockbacks and knockdowns. Resolve protects against them, I know that because, you know, I tested it instead of posting noncence and QQ on the forum.

 

My 37 Crowd Control proof was to open the eyes of all of you to show you that we have tons of CC in the game, and my question still stands how much of it penetrates full white resolve bars.

 

If snares, roots, or impairing movement don't count as CC then we have a huge problem when it comes to what Bioware is thinking.

 

I would love to see a list more define correcting me on my questions.

 

Also, thank all of you fror trolling me and taking time to read what I write, makes me feel good that you took your sweet time to bypass anything I say to try to discredit me.

Edited July 13, 2012 by Caeliux

[Darth_Philar]

My 37 Crowd Control proof was to open the eyes of all of you to show you that we have tons of CC in the game, and my question still stands how much of it penetrates full white resolve bars.

 

If snares, roots, or impairing movement don't count as CC then we have a huge problem when it comes to what Bioware is thinking.

 

I would love to see a list more define correcting me on my questions.

 

Also, thank all of you for trolling me and taking time to read what I write, makes me feel good that you took your sweet time to bypass anything I say to try to discredit me.

 

Your list only proved that you cannot read.

Of those 37 abilities only 19 are CC per the defintion used by this game.

Your personal defintion, the wikipedia defintion, and the definitions used by other developers are 100% irrelevant. Stop using them, they make you look silly.

[Cybermeister]

I think that the resolve bar method of dealing with CC was a good idea that was poorly implemented. As a basis for a system of mitigating stun lock it seems fine at first glance, but in practice it simply doesn't work. I think they need to revisit the mechanic and, at the risk of taking the discussion off on another tangent, I'd propose that the various different stuns, roots, snares, mezzes and holds (and whatever else I forgot) should have a 'saving throw' applied every 'tick' (however long that is) to see if they're broken before their expiration timer.

 

The chance of breaking any particular type of CC could be based vs. one or more of your stats.... so for example if a guardian throws an AE 'Awe' mezz out then after each tick (say 1.5 sec) each affected player gets a 'save vs willpower' to overcome the effect. Obviously this favours classes with high will.. but the similarly, should I be rooted by a sorceror or sniper then after each tick I should get a 'save vs. strength' to break free. Each class should be more or less vulnerable to different CC's, making the choice / use of CCs more situational or at least more selective.

 

Alternatively (or in addition) gear slots could also include + x% resistance to certain types of CC. You could then choose to equip resistance gear instead of maxxing your primary stats. (Similarly gear slots could also buff resistances to different damage types but that's a different issue).

 

Another idea could be to consider revising the meaning of the current resolve bar. For example, everyone starts the match with full resolve... with the size of the bar based on your primary stat (just for an example again), then each time you are CC'd you can choose whether or not you want to 'break' that current CC... if you do then it reduces the level of your resolve proportionate to the effect... if you don't then your CC meter slowly regains resolve, up to the 'value' of whatever CC you are hit by but only whilst the CC is in effect. If you don't have enough resolve left in your bar to break whatever CC has been applied then you just have to suck it up until your bar fills up enough to apply the breaker.

 

Not saying any of these ideas is a perfect solution and would certainly need a lot of playtesting, but right now anything is better than the stunfest that is the usual result of the current system.

[PloGreen]

So basically every other MMO with PvP got it wrong and ruined their games and SWTOR is the only one with perfect PvP?

 

What?

 

The rules of this mmo are fairly straightforward.

 

Resolve affects - knockbacks, hard stuns etc

 

not on resolve - root, snares, leaps

 

Understanding that, having no problems myself.

 

Melee get plenty of defensive cooldowns for this purpose.

Gunslingers also get a talent to prevent this.

You have a cc breaker.

You have a team, that dispel.

 

What is the problem again?

Edited July 13, 2012 by PloGreen

[Caeliux]

Your personal defintion, the wikipedia defintion, and the definitions used by other developers are 100% irrelevant. Stop using them, they make you look silly.

 

Actually CC has always been CC, so what the **** are you talking about?

[Darth_Philar]

Actually CC has always been CC, so what the **** are you talking about?

 

Bioware says CC consists of Stuns, Mezzes, Knockbacks, Pulls, and Knockdowns.

Bioware says Roots and Snares are Kiting tools, not CC.

Bioware makes the game, therefore their definition applies.

 

Facts crit your argument for 200% health.

Your argument dies.

[PloGreen]

Actually CC has always been CC, so what the **** are you talking about?

 

I think the issue here is you think snares, leaps, roots should all be classed as cc therefore all on resolve. I think thats a weak argument, and would totally mess the game. Hence why they arent in the first place because any logical person can see that it works better if they are not on resolve.

 

Is an interupt then cc? Should that be on resolve to?

[Caeliux]

I think that the resolve bar method of dealing with CC was a good idea that was poorly implemented. As a basis for a system of mitigating stun lock it seems fine at first glance, but in practice it simply doesn't work. I think they need to revisit the mechanic and, at the risk of taking the discussion off on another tangent, I'd propose that the various different stuns, roots, snares, mezzes and holds (and whatever else I forgot) should have a 'saving throw' applied every 'tick' (however long that is) to see if they're broken before their expiration timer.

 

The chance of breaking any particular type of CC could be based vs. one or more of your stats.... so for example if a guardian throws an AE 'Awe' mezz out then after each tick (say 1.5 sec) each affected player gets a 'save vs willpower' to overcome the effect. Obviously this favours classes with high will.. but the similarly, should I be rooted by a sorceror or sniper then after each tick I should get a 'save vs. strength' to break free. Each class should be more or less vulnerable to different CC's, making the choice / use of CCs more situational or at least more selective.

 

Alternatively (or in addition) gear slots could also include + x% resistance to certain types of CC. You could then choose to equip resistance gear instead of maxxing your primary stats. (Similarly gear slots could also buff resistances to different damage types but that's a different issue).

 

Another idea could be to consider revising the meaning of the current resolve bar. For example, everyone starts the match with full resolve... with the size of the bar based on your primary stat (just for an example again), then each time you are CC'd you can choose whether or not you want to 'break' that current CC... if you do then it reduces the level of your resolve proportionate to the effect... if you don't then your CC meter slowly regains resolve, up to the 'value' of whatever CC you are hit by but only whilst the CC is in effect. If you don't have enough resolve left in your bar to break whatever CC has been applied then you just have to suck it up until your bar fills up enough to apply the breaker.

 

Not saying any of these ideas is a perfect solution and would certainly need a lot of playtesting, but right now anything is better than the stunfest that is the usual result of the current system.

 

Well thought out here, very nice post.

[Caeliux]

Bioware makes the game, therefore their definition applies.

 

You work for Bioware or something?

 

No really do you?

[Caeliux]

 

Is an interupt then cc? Should that be on resolve to?

 

You are not understanding me atm, I will explain.

 

Any form of impairing movement or CC should be controled. Resolve bar was suppose to be the solution but has more glitches and more problems allowing us players able to control our toon properly.

 

Resolve bar was suppose to make us immune while it drained down to 0 from pure white, but now we all know Bioware didn't add true cc into the equation of what cc is and what cc does.

 

Therefore, I have posted all 37 ways to cc someone in the game, and yet we don't know how many of them actually is on the resolve bar protection list.

Edited July 13, 2012 by Caeliux

[Khoraji]

You work for Bioware or something?

 

No really do you?

 

He was just stating the obvious....

[Darth_Philar]

You are not understanding me atm, I will explain.

 

Any form of impairing movement or CC should be controled. Resolve bar was suppose to be the solution but has more glitches and more problems allowing us players able to control our toon properly.

 

Resolve bar was suppose to make us immune while it drained down to 0 from pure white, but now we all know Bioware didn't add true cc into the equation of what cc is and what cc does.

 

Therefore, I have posted all 37 ways to cc someone in the game, and yet we don't know how many of them actually is on the resolve bar protection list.

 

I'm understanding you just fine. You disagree with Bioware's system since it doesn't meet your defintion of what the system should do.

 

You are also confused about which of the 37 items you listed are affected by Resolve since you didn't take the time to adequately learn Bioware's system or read Kaarsa's resolve values thread.

[Khoraji]

I'm understanding you just fine. You disagree with Bioware's system since it doesn't meet your defintion of what the system should do.

 

You are also confused about which of the 37 items you listed are affected by Resolve since you didn't take the time to adequately learn Bioware's system or read Kaarsa's resolve values thread.

 

boom.

[Mikee]

 

Outta the 37 impairing movements in the game that I am posting which ones do you think is being protected, or meant to put a lid on the effects of us being CC'ed?

 

My guess is 10% of the 37 CC moves, just saying.

 

There's 36, Deadly Throw doesn't have any CC. And you don't have to guess, you can count like I did. There are 20 of the 36 that are not snares/roots, or significantly higher than 10%.