Mouseover Healing

[kaelthun]

I think mouseover healing is a great way to create a more accessible type of healing in an MMO. I don't believe any of the hardmodes in WoW can be done without features like Clique / Grid and also that being on UI v0.1 doesn't warrant pulling old WoW issues into this new game.

 

As time goes on people will get better at the game and improve their abilties. As such, we will get more complexity and more features to handle said complexity. You're looking at UI v0.1 - no need to get worked up.

Edited January 3, 2012 by kaelthun

[Exothermix]

What would be better for me would be the ability to have two targets, i.e. an enemy and a friendly, so I don't have to keep switching, like in Warhammer Online.

 

Especially when companions are such a pain to target without cycling through all friendly targets!

[Amiracle]

I think mouseover healing is a great way to create a more accessible type of healing in an MMO. I don't believe any of the hardmodes in WoW can be done without features like Clique / Grid and also that being on UI v0.1 doesn't warrant pulling old WoW issues into this new game.

 

As time goes on people will get better at the game and improve their abilties. As such, we will get more complexity and more features to handle said complexity. You're looking at UI v0.1 - no need to get worked up.

 

You really think a game developer created a mechanic so hard that you need to go get third party software to complete it?

[Barleigh]

I would love mouseover healing. I can heal without it, but would be nice to have it. Really right now, I just want them to fix the aggravating UI bug where it becomes unresponsive and you can't select anyone using the cursor and unit frame. You can reset the UI but try doing that in the middle of a boss fight.

[Lokiliesmith]

I think mouseover healing is a great way to create a more accessible type of healing in an MMO. I don't believe any of the hardmodes in WoW can be done without features like Clique / Grid and also that being on UI v0.1 doesn't warrant pulling old WoW issues into this new game.

 

As time goes on people will get better at the game and improve their abilties. As such, we will get more complexity and more features to handle said complexity. You're looking at UI v0.1 - no need to get worked up.

 

The native raid frames in WoW and the native mouseover healing is more than adequate to get you through any content. It may not get you world firsts, but it will definitely get you to the end.

 

The Ops frames don't give all of the information most healers want. It doesn't take an addon to get that information. It just takes better Ops frames, which is all Raani is saying. Same with mouseover healing. These are things that can be made native to the game, that are not game breaking just quality of life improvements for 1/4 of any group.

[Amiracle]

How does saving a click improve your quality of life?

 

I only see quality of life in reference to people who have a physical disability and need these improvements.

 

You are playing a video game, how will one less click improve your life?

 

This has nothing to do with quality of life.

 

Enjoyment of a video game yes, improved quality of life.....no.

[KittyPrawn]

How does saving a click improve your quality of life?

 

I only see quality of life in reference to people who have a physical disability and need these improvements.

 

You are playing a video game, how will one less click improve your life?

 

This has nothing to do with quality of life.

 

Enjoyment of a video game yes, improved quality of life.....no.

 

You're taking quality of life too literally. People say QoL in terms of video games as a way to express something that is an improvement for the class/role as a whole and could make playing that class/role more appealing.

 

For example, I could say that a UI that allows for large Buff/Debuff display, possibly with numbers counting down time is a quality of life change for me on a healer. Does this affect my actual life? No. I'll still be in the same shape. However, it does make playing a healer a little better. As it stands right now, typically I'm either attempting to cleanse off nothing, or the things that are cleanseable go through their whole cycle before I get to them.

[Inune]

You really think a game developer created a mechanic so hard that you need to go get third party software to complete it?

 

 

 

Have you ever done heroic raids in WoW?

 

Things like Wrack during Sinestra, the healing debuff on Yor'sahj, and the snare debuff on heroic Hagara are all examples, from the present expansion and off the top of my head, that would be virtually impossible to deal with using the stock UI, and with absolute certainty would be impossible to deal with using TOR's present healing UI.

 

 

edit:

 

I suppose I should explain those mechanics just to be clear:

 

Wrack is a DoT that goes out on a random raid member and ticks for increasing amounts each tick. It needs to be dispelled at around 10-12 seconds or the person will probably die. When dispelled, it jumps to two new random raid members and repeats the process. The idea is to track Wrack and dispel at the opportune time so that the raid doesn't get covered with it, but the people who have it don't die to its increasing damage.

 

The Yor'sahj enounter in Dragon Soul features a healing debuff that causes a player to blow up and essentially wipe the raid when healed 5 times in a specific time period. The idea is to force healers into using big, slow heals while watching the debuff stacks so they don't go above 4 heals on any person.

 

The Hagara encounter features a snare debuff that targets a random player while the whole raid has to run away from moving ice walls that effectively insta-kill you. The debuff will slowly build a snare on its target up to a complete root, or when dispelled, drop a patch of frost that snares the whole raid. The idea is that anyone with the debuff must run into an area of hefty AE damage, be immediately dispelled, and then return to the raid.

 

 

Although Blizzard made some sizable improvement to their raid frames in Cataclysm, these mechanics, as well as all mechanics like them, would be next to impossible without a good UI addon that can track raid debuffs (ala Grid). They would certainly be impossible with the present TOR UI, which as we all know is absolutely horrendous for giving you information about your party members.

Edited January 3, 2012 by Inune

[HelmsDeepHelmet]

I don't know what mouse over healing is. I'm level 41 healer and haven't had any trouble healing anyway. Whats wrong with hitting F1-4 then your heal key, or clicking their name then heal key, or clicking both?

 

Did they seriously make mmorpgs THAT easy to play over the years (last i played was everquest) where people can't even do this? Do people not even want to play the game anymore, how easy does it have to be for you.

 

My problem with adding things like this or macros is it just makes it almost impossible to see the difference between good players and average or poor players. If you make it extremely easy to play the game as efficiently as possible (through macros) or make it easier to do everything (mouse over) the skill gab between good and poor pretty much goes away.

 

Stop complaining about something like mouse over healing and just play. It's absolutely pathetic how many people want things like this added. I hope it is never added.

 

Edit: None of those things the poster above me talked about require mouse over healing.

Edited January 3, 2012 by HelmsDeepHelmet

[Inune]

Did they seriously make mmorpgs THAT easy to play over the years (last i played was everquest) where people can't even do this? Do people not even want to play the game anymore, how easy does it have to be for you.

 

My problem with adding things like this or macros is it just makes it almost impossible to see the difference between good players and average or poor players. If you make it extremely easy to play the game as efficiently as possible (through macros) or make it easier to do everything (mouse over) the skill gab between good and poor pretty much goes away.

 

Stop complaining about something like mouse over healing and just play. It's absolutely pathetic how many people want things like this added. I hope it is never added.

 

If you think that adding something like mouseovers makes it hard to see the difference between a good player and a bad one, you have never done any challenging content in an up-to-date MMO.

 

In all actuality, the need for mouseovers, a better UI, and/or UI addons like WoW's Grid is not about making the game easier, it's about making it harder in the long run. The more tools you give your healers, the more you can demand of them. The more you can demand of them, the more interesting and unique raid mechanics you can design and the more fun your healers will have being challenged by them.

 

Getting elitist over how it used to be done in the old days is simply the immature ranting of a player who hasn't seen what kind of challenges can be offered by a well-designed game with well-designed UIs and interesting fight mechanics. This is no longer Everquest where the only mechanics that developers can use to make a fight harder are adds, deathcalls, and quad hits. Gaming grew up since then, why haven't you?

 

Edit: None of those things the poster above me talked about require mouse over healing.

 

Not mouseover healing specifically, but UI mods. If you want to talk about mouseover healing, we can talk about all the fights that require multiple duties for healers such as interrupting a quick-cast boss ability while still healing their target (WoW shamans get this a lot), or chain-dispelling in a very brief amount of time (the last boss of Zul'Aman's Bear form comes to mind: a group-wide debuff that paralyzes and deals 50% of a player's health if not dispelled in 6-7 seconds. Recall WoW has a 1s GCD and you have 5 party members).

Edited January 3, 2012 by Inune

[Danudwary]

Many agreements with Raani and other experienced healers in favor of UI adjustment. The current is very clunky for healers, and will only hold the game back. I'm loving the story elements, and the style of the game. I don't like the UI, and I wish I could adapt it to my liking, which includes mouseovers, ideally. Outside of some random graphical glitches, this is seriously my only complaint about SWTOR.

 

A clunky UI, in the long run, necessitates the simplistic encounters we currently have, which is arguably fine in the early life of the game, but not forever.

[KittyPrawn]

I don't know what mouse over healing is. I'm level 41 healer and haven't had any trouble healing anyway. Whats wrong with hitting F1-4 then your heal key, or clicking their name then heal key, or clicking both?

 

Did they seriously make mmorpgs THAT easy to play over the years (last i played was everquest) where people can't even do this? Do people not even want to play the game anymore, how easy does it have to be for you.

 

My problem with adding things like this or macros is it just makes it almost impossible to see the difference between good players and average or poor players. If you make it extremely easy to play the game as efficiently as possible (through macros) or make it easier to do everything (mouse over) the skill gab between good and poor pretty much goes away.

 

Stop complaining about something like mouse over healing and just play. It's absolutely pathetic how many people want things like this added. I hope it is never added.

 

Edit: None of those things the poster above me talked about require mouse over healing.

 

I have small hands. I can't physically reach for my function keys without repositioning my whole hand. It isn't easy for everyone.

 

I can click and heal, but I prefer mouse-overs. They feel more comfortable and allow me to multi-task easier by letting me keep a static target. What is it about mouse-over healing that makes you feel it dumbs down the game compared to click and heal? Mouse-over healing doesn't automate anything for me. It doesn't pick my spell or target for me. I have to make the same decisions with a mouse-over that you do with click-healing. I just take out a step. I don't have to take out that step, but it helps.

 

Believe me, you can still tell the difference between good and bad people.

[Amiracle]

Have you ever done heroic raids in WoW?

 

Things like Wrack during Sinestra, the healing debuff on Yor'sahj, and the snare debuff on heroic Hagara are all examples, from the present expansion and off the top of my head, that would be virtually impossible to deal with using the stock UI, and with absolute certainty would be impossible to deal with using TOR's present healing UI.

 

 

edit:

 

I suppose I should explain those mechanics just to be clear:

 

Wrack is a DoT that goes out on a random raid member and ticks for increasing amounts each tick. It needs to be dispelled at around 10-12 seconds or the person will probably die. When dispelled, it jumps to two new random raid members and repeats the process. The idea is to track Wrack and dispel at the opportune time so that the raid doesn't get covered with it, but the people who have it don't die to its increasing damage.

 

The Yor'sahj enounter in Dragon Soul features a healing debuff that causes a player to blow up and essentially wipe the raid when healed 5 times in a specific time period. The idea is to force healers into using big, slow heals while watching the debuff stacks so they don't go above 4 heals on any person.

 

The Hagara encounter features a snare debuff that targets a random player while the whole raid has to run away from moving ice walls that effectively insta-kill you. The debuff will slowly build a snare on its target up to a complete root, or when dispelled, drop a patch of frost that snares the whole raid. The idea is that anyone with the debuff must run into an area of hefty AE damage, be immediately dispelled, and then return to the raid.

 

 

Although Blizzard made some sizable improvement to their raid frames in Cataclysm, these mechanics, as well as all mechanics like them, would be next to impossible without a good UI addon that can track raid debuffs (ala Grid). They would certainly be impossible with the present TOR UI, which as we all know is absolutely horrendous for giving you information about your party members.

 

 

 

So you do think Blizz created a game where 3rd party software is required to beat it...rofl

[Amiracle]

You're taking quality of life too literally. People say QoL in terms of video games as a way to express something that is an improvement for the class/role as a whole and could make playing that class/role more appealing.

 

For example, I could say that a UI that allows for large Buff/Debuff display, possibly with numbers counting down time is a quality of life change for me on a healer. Does this affect my actual life? No. I'll still be in the same shape. However, it does make playing a healer a little better. As it stands right now, typically I'm either attempting to cleanse off nothing, or the things that are cleanseable go through their whole cycle before I get to them.

 

No I'm not. Quality of life is used when talking about terminally ill or people with sever disabilities.

 

Please explain how the video game is affecting your quality of life?

 

When you are done playing you can still walk, run, talk, listen to some, move about on your own accord, go shopping for your own food...........

 

Again, please tell me how your quality of life is impacted.

[caveslug]

So you do think Blizz created a game where 3rd party software is required to beat it...rofl

 

 

Last I checked you can use the built in /macro function to create mouse over macros, no 3rd party addon required.

 

Also there are a lot more option in the Blizz UI such as how buffs are displayed and, that you don't need a *********** magnifying glass to see them.

No I'm not. Quality of life is used when talking about terminally ill or people with sever disabilities.

 

Please explain how the video game is affecting your quality of life?

 

When you are done playing you can still walk, run, talk, listen to some, move about on your own accord, go shopping for your own food...........

 

Again, please tell me how your quality of life is impacted.

 

You are trolling or joking, please look up what it means.

Edited January 3, 2012 by caveslug

[Katlyna]

So people who don't get it... generaly don't have the experience far enough along to get it. Which is ok, most of us have (or even put up with) click to heal functionality. As we've said... we CAN heal like this. We can even do a good job like this.

 

But we would much more enjoy the game with a better raidframe and mouseover healing.

 

Also F1-F5 does indeed work for a party (though I still find it cumbersome and hand pain inducing). But this does not work in a 10-20+ raid. Again many of these problems don't really start to come out until you're raiding teired content... then you really start to notice them.

 

As its been mentioned, yes some wow players don't use addons (not many) but if you look through the list of VERY good healers that don't use any UI-enhancing or mouse-over healing. The list gets thin. Is it possible? Yes I use the default blizzard frame for dispelling... but as mentioned, its still clunky. If I pushed wow heroic modes, the dispell problems I'm aware of and put up with in normal... would become very apparent.

 

Honestly on my wow server nearly all the good raid healers I've conversed with use either mouseover healing, clique, grid. Grid is byfar one of the most popular.

 

Personally till mouse-over healing is introduced I don't look forward to trying to Healing an old republic raid... which is sad when you consider I enjoy and breeze through healing 25 man raids in WoW all the time.

 

UI quality issues like will drive players away from healing roles and the game in some cases. It is in the games best interest to improve the UI usability/quaility of life for its players. Additional UI improvement/flexibility is good for everyone!

Edited January 3, 2012 by Katlyna

[Hermanlee]

I don't know what mouse over healing is. I'm level 41 healer and haven't had any trouble healing anyway. Whats wrong with hitting F1-4 then your heal key, or clicking their name then heal key, or clicking both?

 

Did they seriously make mmorpgs THAT easy to play over the years (last i played was everquest) where people can't even do this? Do people not even want to play the game anymore, how easy does it have to be for you.

 

My problem with adding things like this or macros is it just makes it almost impossible to see the difference between good players and average or poor players. If you make it extremely easy to play the game as efficiently as possible (through macros) or make it easier to do everything (mouse over) the skill gab between good and poor pretty much goes away.

 

Stop complaining about something like mouse over healing and just play. It's absolutely pathetic how many people want things like this added. I hope it is never added.

 

Edit: None of those things the poster above me talked about require mouse over healing.

 

If you think healing is just select player one, cast heal, then I'm not sure I'd want to run with you as my healer. On difficult fights, which are probably few and far between in the first 41 levels of the game, there's much more going on than just "the tank just took x damage".

 

Honestly, no one should be commenting on the raw difficulty of healing in this game without trying out operations, that's where the real challenge is supposed to be. I can predict though that its a pain based on the poor way information is presented in the UI.

[RiskyBiz]

I'd love the ability to mouse-over heal again. My main reason is because it frees up a lot of hotkeys. I always used to have all of my heals bound to mouse clicks (and alt/ctrl alternatives), which for me is much more comfortable.

 

Anyone who says Healbot, Grid, or Vuhdo did the work for you is (quite honestly) an idiot.

[Danudwary]

Last I checked you can use the built in /macro function to create mouse over macros, no 3rd party addon required.

 

Also there are a lot more option in the Blizz UI such as how buffs are displayed and, that you don't need a *********** magnifying glass to see them.

 

And since Cataclysm, a Grid-workalike is basically built into WoW's default UI. No 3rd-party addons needed. 5 minutes in the macro editor (cutting and pasting from a website, if you don't know how to write scripts) and you're all set.

 

Mouseovers, or some means of casting on a non-actively targeted target (holy crap, there has to be a better way to say that!) is standard in every other major MMO.

 

This isn't just a healing issue, btw. I use macro targeting+casting all the time as DPS in WoW. For example, in the Blackhorn mob phase in Dragon Soul it's my job to slow Goblin Sappers. They get dropped off on one side of an airship by a dragon, then as soon as they land they cast a smoke bomb and go invisible and start running toward the other end of the boat. If they make it they blow you up. They only become targetable halfway, and if you're not quick enough to click them and then cast you probably die. So, I wrote a short macro that targets something with the name "Goblin Sapper", and casts the slow, and as soon as he's visible I spam that button and we get him. There are many situations where having this ability becomes super useful.

[tchad]

I'm one of those terrible people who happens to use a Naga.

 

Please don't say harsh things, I love my lil Naga so much - It broke once and I went out and bought 2 more just in case, so I was never without again.

[KittyPrawn]

No I'm not. Quality of life is used when talking about terminally ill or people with sever disabilities.

 

Please explain how the video game is affecting your quality of life?

 

When you are done playing you can still walk, run, talk, listen to some, move about on your own accord, go shopping for your own food...........

 

Again, please tell me how your quality of life is impacted.

 

The term quality of life is used to evaluate the general well-being of individuals and societies. Standard indicators of the quality of life include not only wealth and employment, but also the built environment, physical and mental health, education, recreation and leisure time, and social belonging.

 

AND THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE!

[tchad]

Just allow me to make a macro like this:

 

/use [@mouseover,help][help]Static Barrier; [@mouseover,harm][harm]Jolt

 

This way if i have an ally targeted I will cast Static Barrier, if I have an enemy targeted I will cast Jolt. If I have my mouse over an ally - it will ignore my target and cast Static Barrier. If I have my mouse over an enemy it will ignore my target and cast Jolt.

 

This is the macro I use in wow to cast Cleanse or Hex - every key I have is a variation of this macro, so every single button can be 4 options, based on my mouseover, target and ally or enemy.

 

Is it required? Nope. It will make a decent player better and a great player amazing. Amazing players will already use this and eat more pie.

[namn]

So you do think Blizz created a game where 3rd party software is required to beat it...rofl

 

Blizzard didnt create a game that requires 3rd party software, the game evolved into it.

Old republic will probably also evolve into something that doesnt allow healers to stare at the bottom of the screen to be make sure they are not emptying their resources on the wrong target while getting hit by a big *** meteor...

 

In all honesty addons/macros is only essentiall for healers, dps and tanks can just stand and press their buttons. Healers have to pay attention to both the fight and the UI and thats fine for the moment but when fights are getting harder healers will need to be able to heal properly (mouseover).

 

I understand that people dont want addons/macros and i agree in the sence that BW/EA should make the game they want, not the game the customers want ("NERF FIRE ON GROUND!!!!!!!!!!!1"). However mouseover/tweeking the ui wouldnt require addons or macros, it could be implemented in the game.

Edited January 6, 2012 by namn

[Sildrin]

Really? You cannot heal without it?

 

Its like that one extra little click is too much for some people...

 

Is it TOO much when you have to practically click on something the size of a pencil.

 

I've put my mouse over my friend and clicked all over, the only place I actually GET him is dead center of his body.

 

So yea, mouse over healing is nice.

[Lets_Adapt]

All of this uproar because people don't want to click a button? Really? Balance issues/bug threads barely make it above five pages, but this thread, a thread about having to click a button, is miles long. You'd think Bioware spit in an orphan's mouth given the amount of bellyaching going on here. If you can't heal because you have to click a button over a raid frame then I don't know what to say to you. Going from FFXI (where we used only the keyboard and function key tabbing) to SWTOR's system, even I have no problems adapting to it. Having a preference is one thing, but saying that it makes the game unplayable is complete BS. If it is going to be that big of a deal then perhaps you should stop playing over all.