Helig Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Well, I don't know why I'm talking to you, whiner spotted. FOTM player spotted. I play Marauder since early access. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omophorus Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Well, I don't know why I'm talking to you, whiner spotted. He's kinda right though. It doesn't break on damage, so it's consistent in its ability to get you out of a jam. It breaks target lock, so it interrupts any channeled attacks. It has damage reduction attached to it. It has a movement speed buff attached to it. It can be spec'd to cleanse all movement-impairing effects. It sheds a ton of threat in PVE, so not only will it drop aggro on you mid-fight, it'll also give you a sizable window to DPS your face off without worrying about retaking aggro. It has a short cooldown, so provides significantly more opportunities to disrupt combat than either of the true stealth classes, whose in-combat stealths are on much longer cooldowns (though have no limit on duration once re-stealthed, and remove the individual from combat). The aggro-drop and short cooldown are basically essential in PVE with how quickly we can build threat, but whole package in PVP is a tad much. I think people drastically overstate how "OP" Marauder is, and that there are plenty of counter-classes to Marauders where you don't need a list as long as your arm to deal with us. The issues there are a few-fold, but the better option in the long run is to address them rather than knee-jerk nerf Marauders. 1) Tank gear needs to be more useful in PVP. Tank-spec characters are ruinous (though less so in 1v1 fights), but most smart tanks gear for DPS which gives us a huge advantage in dealing with them, but they don't gain enough offense to deal with us. Gearing up tank to face Marauders makes perfect sense. Gearing up tank when most everyone else can bypass your defense and shield with a lot of their burst makes much less sense. 2) More people need to play Snipers/Gunslingers. There are a lot of rerollers (shocking! rock is the counter to the current FOTM's scissors!) right now, so we'll see that continuing to come into play in the level-cap metagame as they get geared up. Without some advantages on the Marauder's side, it's an incredibly bad matchup for us. Even more entertaining is how effective stealth classes are against Snipers/Slingers, even moreso than they are against us, so more Snipers/Slingers in the metagame means more value to stealth DPS too. 3) Stealth DPS specs need some tweaking. I'd want to see PTS testing (over a longer stretch) of increasing their out-of-stealth DPS, reducing the cooldown of their combat re-stealth, or giving them a bit more sturdiness so they're slightly less glassy cannons. I'm not sure which of the 3 would be most balanced for both PUG and ranked play, and I'm sure any of the 3 would be abused well by the best players. Of the 3, increasing out-of-stealth DPS or increasing the frequency of re-stealthing probably make the most sense from a PVE perspective to make them more attractive there. 4) Fix Merc/Trooper. Right now there's basically one slightly subpar PVE spec, one slightly subpar PVP spec, and one slightly subpar healing spec. This isn't a Marauder-OP'd related issue at all, but it's totally the redheaded stepchild AC at the moment and one of the easiest matchups for Marauders in PVP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFC-Lawndart Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 (edited) Not even close to OP. Every class is going to have it's bane. Edited July 12, 2012 by SFC-Lawndart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksidechemist Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 another one of "these" threads to be ignored by BW. Oh, come on now, I haven't seen one of these in a whole 2 or 3 days... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helig Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 (edited) 1) Tank gear needs to be more useful in PVP. Tank-spec characters are ruinous (though less so in 1v1 fights), but most smart tanks gear for DPS which gives us a huge advantage in dealing with them, but they don't gain enough offense to deal with us. Gearing up tank to face Marauders makes perfect sense. Gearing up tank when most everyone else can bypass your defense and shield with a lot of their burst makes much less sense. Tech\Force attacks need to be shieldable, at the very least. I don't know why BW stills has their heads up their behinds on this one. In before Que Que Immortal Ballcarriers. Tanks are supposed to tank. Right now, they're pretty much the support class that can't support itself. Their survivability is only marginally better outside cooldowns than DPS specs (I regularly run full Defense, along with Vigilance and Focus specs on my Guardian - got plenty of opportunities to gauge it). Their power is supposed to be damage mitigation. Right now, they can mainly mitigate damage on others. On themselves - not so much. Hell, I can *tank* better on my healing Scoundrel (without Guard) than I can tank on my tank character in tank gear. Seriously, Scoundrel survives longer than a tank. Going a little off-topic, I propose that taunts should also reduce damage on *everyone*, but only if the user runs defensive stance and is specced for tanking. Edited July 12, 2012 by Helig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkzehhh Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 PvP, ? as long as PT/Vanguard exists, Marauder are not OP in PvP and Marauder can however easily be countered if you know how they work (like all classes), and some classes are clearly our nemesis (Marauder is gunslinger breakfast). PvE ? we are the best melee dps class (single target) along with sniper being best single target range (better AOE though), capable of doing the most dps when fights allow us to do so (most of raid content is melee unfriendly) but on the meantime we're one of the 2 AC in the whole game who can't be anything else than dps, so the trade off is fair. All content in the game can be cleared without a marauder. This, too many Nerf mara/sent thread's... if only people L2P. PT os where the real FOTM is atm, WAKE UP. 90% of classes can take on any other class.. if there not bad's. TLDR; L2P & stop the QQing. PS - I play madness Assasin before anyone 'trys' to get funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkzehhh Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 FOTM player spotted. I play Marauder since early access. LOL, and here you are whining about your 'own' class, yeah right. **** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helig Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 (edited) LOL, and here you are whining about your 'own' class, yeah right. **** I play several classes, fairly well-geared. Marauder being just one of them. My strongest PvP character, currently, eventhough my Guardian is marginally better geared. Playing multiple classes helps a lot in terms of seeing the balancing less... subjectively. Edited July 12, 2012 by Helig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zxckakel Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Thing is, if you're complaining about Marauders being OP in terms of DPS then that would be outrageous since this is a dps class. I do agree to some extent that our defensive cd's are a bit buffed but when you face a good range player, that's our only way of not getting kited to death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kycen Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Thing is, if you're complaining about Marauders being OP in terms of DPS then that would be outrageous since this is a dps class. I do agree to some extent that our defensive cd's are a bit buffed but when you face a good range player, that's our only way of not getting kited to death. This times a thousand. Marauders are doing well in the DPS department... as a pure dps advanced class. If anything tone our defensive cd's down some because I tend to agree popping undying rage in huttball and walking through the fire with 56hp with 4 guys beating on you and living is a bit much. As far as our dps goes I think its fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtebuev Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Confirm/Deny? I am full BM and got like 3 shotted by a Mara. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drator Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 (edited) The reason marauders are able to put out the kind of damage they do is not only due to their damaging abilities but also due to their defensive cooldowns (dying or having to run away more often means less damage). Reducing/removing their defensive cooldowns would also indirectly lower their overall damage output. Edited July 12, 2012 by Drator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basketballbum Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 I am full BM and got like 3 shotted by a Mara. Like 3 shotted or 3 shotted? Did you see the sniper shooting you from behind or did you only see the guy waving two glowing bats at you? Did you stand in ravage for the full duration? Were all your good skills on cooldown? Was the marrauder fully buffed, fully geared, and have his rotation down pat? Did you not stun him at all? Did you make no attempt to kite him whatsoever? Unless absolutely everything went his way and you have the worst luck in the world there is no way you were 3 shotted by just a marrauder and even then 3 shots are unrealistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolenthar Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 (edited) The reason marauders are able to put out the kind of damage they do is not only due to their damaging abilities but also due to their defensive cooldowns (dying or having to run away more often means less damage). Reducing/removing their defensive cooldowns would also indirectly lower their overall damage output. Mara being a melee class not relying on stealth (stealth being only possible during 5 seconds as an escape mechanic), it needs defensive cooldowns. All other classes being melee are stealth and / or capable of increasing their mitigation up to heavy armor (40% for a sin), and I won't talk about the BT or the Jug of course, which both have higher burst damage, CC, AND heavy armor. There is a few abilities which could use some adjustments especially in the combat tree (the snare on charge is tremendously annoying, especially with 1.5 more seconds) but all in all it's not a problem of defensive abilities. Some adjustements to the stealth abilities could be done (such as breaking on damage) but anything else would be overkill. But I can understand range wanting to nerf melees, eventually this game will become range only, sniper fun will be ton of fun Edited July 12, 2012 by Nolenthar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtebuev Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Like 3 shotted or 3 shotted? Did you see the sniper shooting you from behind or did you only see the guy waving two glowing bats at you? Did you stand in ravage for the full duration? Were all your good skills on cooldown? Was the marrauder fully buffed, fully geared, and have his rotation down pat? Did you not stun him at all? Did you make no attempt to kite him whatsoever? Unless absolutely everything went his way and you have the worst luck in the world there is no way you were 3 shotted by just a marrauder and even then 3 shots are unrealistic. Now this is exactly how I feel when maras or other classes come to QQ on the agent forums and bull**** like I just did. Now you guys are lucky cuz BW don't actually listen to people that QQ on your forums but when it comes to agents they dish out the nerfs. P.S. a full duration ravage still shouldn't 3 shot you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helig Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 (edited) Mara being a melee class not relying on stealth (stealth being only possible during 5 seconds as an escape mechanic), it needs defensive cooldowns. All other classes being melee are stealth and / or capable of increasing their mitigation up to heavy armor (40% for a sin), and I won't talk about the BT or the Jug of course, which both have higher burst damage, CC, AND heavy armor. Yup. Just as I suspected. Edited July 12, 2012 by Helig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thundergulch Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 So am I correct in saying that you believe some aspects of the Marauder class should be toned down? Go Away. Marauders are not OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth-Malice Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 We sure are overpowered with our crowd controll, knockbacks and stuns.. oh wait no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthOvertone Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Confirm/Deny? Deny. That was easy. Next question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkzehhh Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Now this is exactly how I feel when maras or other classes come to QQ on the agent forums and bull**** like I just did. Now you guys are lucky cuz BW don't actually listen to people that QQ on your forums but when it comes to agents they dish out the nerfs. P.S. a full duration ravage still shouldn't 3 shot you. P.S. It doesnt unless your in full WH and the opposition is what...naked? So much garbage in this thread, Mara/sents are perfectly fine... Go look at Tankasin's PT/Vanguards and then come chat. PS.7. I play madness assasin, so if anyone want's to attempt to troll, go ahead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurfer Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 I am full BM and got like 3 shotted by a Mara. Stop being a failure keyboard turning clicker and actually attempt to move out of their ravage. Or you can just go back to PvE where everything stands still while you attack it and makes it nice and easy for you. Seriously, anyone complaining about marauder damage must play with some HORRIBLE juggernauts, sniper and PT dps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawage Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 Say that marauders are OP can say only PvP n00b. If somebody thinks that PvP is about I stay here, U in front of me and we will just click on 1,2,3 than Maras are OP cause U will have no chance. But every ranged dmg can kite maras anytime. If we havent got those def abilites we would die in just 5 sec. Every other class have many stuns, cc, pushback, stealth and what we have? 1 stealth ability for ''awesome'' 4sec (6 in annihilate), 1 aoe parody of cc and some deff abilites just for survive at least something. Another problem why somebody thinks that maras are OP cause they think we have 90 talten points and we have everything. Maras are totally low if U know play PvP. I kill most of maras/sentinels with my sorcerer healer, just because I know how to kite him, cause I'm not standing at one place like some sorc healers I used to go against with my mara while I'm using berseker and spamming masacre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zxckakel Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 I am full BM and got like 3 shotted by a Mara. next time, wear them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dencre Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 (edited) Marauders are right where they need to be. Edited July 16, 2012 by Dencre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malimoo Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Marauders are right where they need to be. they need to add a more reliable stun to rauders, every other class got one some got two, why cant we have one? take a stun away from operatives, and give one to mauraders. = balanced Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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