Here's how you fix sorcerers/sages...

[Monterone]

MADNESS/BALANCE:

 

In order to up the perceived dps but without changing any actual numbers, make the two DoTs tick twice as fast for the same number of ticks, and give them cleanse protection. This would decrease time to kill for sages and give them the much needed burst to offset the low survivability and a complete lack of defensive cool-downs. The amount of ticks stays the same so the chance for any procs wouldn't change, although the procs could only happen over a shorter period of time. So this would make Creeping Terror a 9 second DoT, instead of an 18 sec DoT, and would also halve the time of Affliction, including its corresponding talents.

 

This tree really needs cleanse protection to make dots work. Wasting force on something that can be cleansed for less force than you spend to cast it, and then hope they tick for full length of almost a third of a minute is just a bit severe, I think.

 

Increase the root portion of Creeping Terror by .5 seconds; making this root a 2.5 sec root is not much of an increase but I think would noticeably increase sorcerer survivability and ability to kite. I think it's fair to say it is much easier in this game to stay within someone's range than to keep someone outside of your range. An extra half a second of root would really help.

 

 

HEALING:

 

Sneak in a talent for un-interruptabilty somewhere in the tree. Something akin to the merc 15 second shield, but only the non-interrupt portion. Put it on the same timer as the merc shield. With as long as heal spells take to cast, a small window to cast without interrupts would be welcome every few minutes.

 

OR

 

Decrease the timer on the big heal by .5 seconds. Leave the talent to decrease it by another half a second. This would give healers a 2 second heal which would also help prevent frequent interrupts in the long run.

 

 

LIGHTNING:

 

This tree needs lots of love, but to get started:

 

Either increase the damage on Lightning Strike/Disturbance via a percentage increase through a higher up talent OR decrease the casting time by .5 seconds via the same talent. For as little damage as the builder does, a shorter 1 second cast would make the sage more mobile and create a more pleasant play style. Keeping the casting time at 1.5 seconds but increasing the damage would keep the turret play style while making the tree a bit more viable.

 

Another option would be to add a debuff stack to the builder, Lightning Strike, similar to Tracer Missile. Stacks up to 3 times for 10/20/30% pick you debuff here - armor/accuracy/whatever.

 

Increase the damage on the tree top talent. Thundering Blast is disappointing to say the least. Very anti-climactic to reach the top of that tree.

 

 

Anyways, thanks for reading and please don't be afraid to be civil when you respond.

Edited July 11, 2012 by Monterone

[LancelotOC]

You know our shield actually makes us immune to pushback. If only it did the same for interupts I'd be a Deliverance casting fool.

[Xerain]

Everyone else is going to want cleanse protection too on their stuff then there's not going to be a point in having a cleanse...

 

There's always that option of if you cleanse the dots they do a certain amount of damage to the target for going poof? Probably a better option.

[MidichIorian]

There's foremost one, yes one, change I'm looking for, and it's a change that IMO hardly could be refered to as a buff. Hence, there's no reason to make a big deal out of it but it could at the same time vastly improve the two mirror classes.

 

First however we need to agree on a couple of things:

* Sorcs/sages don't have much burst so to be able to to do some serious damage we need to throw everything we got at the enemy. This means high force costs.

 

*Sages and sorcs are often told to kite their enemies. Fine, but when we kite there's not much room for telekinetic throws/force lightning and other in relation cheap abilties so we have to rely on shock and dots. The latter quickly add up and drain our force pool. Add to this that it takes a while to kite an enemy and it's not unusual that we have time for two bubbles, that's another 1/6th of our force pool right there.

 

*Force regen rate is low just like TTK'es. It takes 6.25 seconds to regenerate the cost for a bubble so when we've run out of force we're totally helpless. Assuming that we live long enough to get 50 force back we have to prioritize, bubble with the chance that an ally shows up and saves us or a last offensive move before wiping.

 

Hence, I would ask for a higher force regen rate, a bigger force pool or lower force costs. It would allow us to use all our tools without having to run away from battle just to regen every minute, assuming that we live that long.

Edited July 11, 2012 by MidichIorian

[Defeckted]

I've felt for months that this entire problem could be fixed by adding Stances or Forms to Sage/Sorc. This is utilized in almost every other class to add to the players current spec. Now this is just a rough idea so dont bash me to hard, but.....

 

DPS Stance - Something like 5-10% damage boost, and maybe 10-15% movement speed.

 

Healing Stance - 40-50% armor bonus, and something like 5% to Alacrity or something else.

[LancelotOC]

I dont know about armor's value. That tank Blogger Mallisant from the tank forums that did the whole analysis of every popular class spec and their typical rotations conlcuded that 82-83% of armor actually works against attacks. The thing is that's based on a normal distributions. If you took his class numbers, and used the WZ databasers class mix numbers in rated to get a weighted average, you get much much lower than that.

[Commissar_Omega]

Allow chain lightning to proc off wrath.

 

That's it.

[vimm]

Allow chain lightning to proc off wrath.

 

That's it.

 

loooool

[Karnbracken]

Give sorc healing the ability to move and heal at the sametime. there problem solved

[Ashania]

Everyone else is going to want cleanse protection too on their stuff then there's not going to be a point in having a cleanse...

 

There's always that option of if you cleanse the dots they do a certain amount of damage to the target for going poof? Probably a better option.

 

It could be like the Lingering Toxins trait in the Lethality tree for Snipers/Ops where if the dots are cleansed, it is reapplied with a weaker version.

 

But damage on poof sounds good.

[vimm]

It could be like the Lingering Toxins trait in the Lethality tree for Snipers/Ops where if the dots are cleansed, it is reapplied with a weaker version.

 

But damage on poof sounds good.

 

Those DoTs that last for like 40 seconds are so annoying, lol.

[Karnbracken]

Give sorc healing the ability to move and heal at the sametime. there problem solved

[iphobia]

My suggestions:

 

General:

As any other class, Sorc deserves at least one defensive cooldown (reduces damage taken by xx% for yy seconds).

 

Heal:

As Sorc NEEDS to kite to survive, it should have more on-the-run heals. A kiting class with only turret style heals is just a stupid design.

As Dark Infusion is worthless as it is right now, you could redesign Force Bending so it makes Dark Infusion an instant cast that heals for less (maybe 50%?).

 

Lightning:

This spec needs more movement, either let Lightning Storm also proc from Shock (50% chance maybe, since it has a cooldown?) or give us a new talent that lets us cast Lightning Bolt while moving but reduces it's damage (by 25% maybe?).

 

Madness:

This spec has some problems with resource management as it is right now.

Let Sith Efficacy regenerate 2% of the Force pool and this will be fixed.

Another problem of this spec are the long timers on some of the DoT's, so this spec does good overall damage, but it simply takes to long to kill something with it.

Simply leave the overall damage of them the same, but reduce their timers (To like 9s?).

 

Let me hear what you think.

[MorgothQuick]

Allow Force Speed to break roots/snares.

Force Armor/Static Barrier gives no debuff on self only, or the debuff on self increases armor by a percentage. Could modify a talent to increase armor on others in the healing tree.

 

Survivability is rock bottom playing a non healing Sorceror, these changes could alleviate that issue.

[NoTomorrow]

Lots of horrible suggestions. Sniper is the only class that needs cleanse protection as their main damaging ability from cull procs based on number of poisons on enemy.

 

Sorcs with immunity to interruptions.. Just lol.. Do you want everyone to roll sorcs in pvp?

 

Sorc with stances? Are sure??? You will criple 90% of hybrid sorc population as many abilities will be tied to specific stances. Its too late in the game to make changes like this.

 

Creeping terrror root buff? i am ok with that.

 

I cannot say anythng about lightning tree. I never fully specced into it. To me its just a tree full of goodies for hybrids, but never offering incentives to go full 31 pts in it. In all these months ive seen only once a sorc wi thundering blast in a pre50 pvp.

 

One last question from a sniper: why do you guys insist on being able to stay in a snipers line of sight fire? Why should the game be balanced in a way that you could fight a sniper where he is supposed to be one of the strongest ranged dps? You dont have cover. You have light armor.

Edited July 11, 2012 by NoTomorrow

[Lithy]

Allow chain lightning to proc off wrath.

 

That's it.

 

Is this a troll post? We'll never get that back...

[warultima]

Allow chain lightning to proc off wrath.

 

That's it.

 

Then sorcs will have something that can do burst DPS like all other DPS classes. Its too OP.

[Darth_Philar]

Lots of horrible suggestions. Sniper is the only class that needs cleanse protection as their main damaging ability from cull procs based on number of poisons on enemy.

 

Sorcs with immunity to interruptions.. Just lol.. Do you want everyone to roll sorcs in pvp?

 

Sorc with stances? Are sure??? You will criple 90% of hybrid sorc population as many abilities will be tied to specific stances. Its too late in the game to make changes like this.

 

Creeping terrror root buff? i am ok with that.

 

I cannot say anythng about lightning tree. I never fully specced into it. To me its just a tree full of goodies for hybrids, but never offering incentives to go full 31 pts in it. In all these months ive seen only once a sorc wi thundering blast in a pre50 pvp.

 

One last question from a sniper: why do you guys insist on being able to stay in a snipers line of sight fire? Why should the game be balanced in a way that you could fight a sniper where he is supposed to be one of the strongest ranged dps? You dont have cover. You have light armor.

 

1. Madness Sorcs rely just as heavily on DoTs as any sniper.

 

2. If BW could make up their mind as to whether we are a turret or a kiting class, then we can discuss interruptibility intelligently. As it sits right now, if we are supposed to turret, then we need similar tools to the other turret (sniper). If we are supposed to kite, then we need a lot more instant abilities and a lot less casted ones. Imagine having to play your sniper with your cover ability removed. That describes the gameplay most sorcs experience.

 

3. Patch 1.2 Completely changed how Corruption Sorcs are played, adding stances would be a minor mechanic change compared to that and would allow some sorc specs to kite and others to turret. Besides, BW doesn't like hybrids, which further shows just how borked sorcs are right now since our only good specs are all hybrids.

 

4. If sorcs are supposed to turret, then we should be able to match snipers blow for blow. If we are supposed to kite, then we need the tools to do so. Currently we don't have the tools to fight, we have the tools to run away from a fight (this is not kiting, it is fleeing).

[LancelotOC]

We're actually stronger than snipers because we have more range on Disturbance, imho. If it wasn't for everyone else focusing you and forcing you into Snipers' LOS and range the typical Sorc/Sniper interaction would be very lopsided pro Sorc.

 

I think it's funny the sniper in the thread asked why we would want survivability in his range meanwhile we are very similar classes of sorts. It just goes to show that this has gone on for so long other DPS classes assume they should be able to always kill a Sorc even the class most similar to us. Though he does have a good point in that he sacrifices mobility for his superiority of immunity to jumps and high DPS from cover. So how can Sorcs get both mobility and enough straight mitigation to counter his damage?

 

I think his argument flushes out that in most cases "no mobility, immunity to gap closers or true range advantage, and high direct damage" > "Kiting and Dots" . You wouldn't think it so at first glance since doting/kiting is such a deadly/sneaky style. The reason is kiting, because of the ample availability of CC and gap closers, is not so powerful in this game. The popular classes favored in pvp are too strong in their anti-kiting ability.

 

I guess that's the answer to the Sniper question. Why do we want survivability on top of mobility? Because mobility is overrated.

[Aaroneus]

There's foremost one, yes one, change I'm looking for, and it's a change that IMO hardly could be refered to as a buff. Hence, there's no reason to make a big deal out of it but it could at the same time vastly improve the two mirror classes.

 

First however we need to agree on a couple of things:

* Sorcs/sages don't have much burst so to be able to to do some serious damage we need to throw everything we got at the enemy. This means high force costs.

 

*Sages and sorcs are often told to kite their enemies. Fine, but when we kite there's not much room for telekinetic throws/force lightning and other in relation cheap abilties so we have to rely on shock and dots. The latter quickly add up and drain our force pool. Add to this that it takes a while to kite an enemy and it's not unusual that we have time for two bubbles, that's another 1/6th of our force pool right there.

 

*Force regen rate is low just like TTK'es. It takes 6.25 seconds to regenerate the cost for a bubble so when we've run out of force we're totally helpless. Assuming that we live long enough to get 50 force back we have to prioritize, bubble with the chance that an ally shows up and saves us or a last offensive move before wiping.

 

Hence, I would ask for a higher force regen rate, a bigger force pool or lower force costs. It would allow us to use all our tools without having to run away from battle just to regen every minute, assuming that we live that long.

 

I agree with this. I rolled a balance sage just to try it out because i've heard good things. And while it is fun and I enjoy it a lot, i find myself running out of force very quickly. reducing the force cost of each ability by 5 and slightly increasing the in combat regen rate would help without throwing the class way out of balance. just a thought, not asking for anything to be set in stone.

[kcol]

Sage bubble needs to be what it was pre 1.2....2 hits and it's gone is bs.

[Nucairion]

why is it sorcs/sages always want more. your class is working fine. played properly there are no force issues, i have sorc and dont have probs although its an alt these days. specced right u can do some nasty damage highest i seen so far from a sorc was like 400-450k damage not that abd for a light armour caster.

 

as for healer other day i saw a sorc healer with 700k+ healing granted the enemy team didnt seem to focus him often but thats pretty impressive considering 1.2 supposedly nerfed sorcs/sages.

 

the cleanse protection idea is a joke everyone would demand it and for it to only be limited to a class that already has a longer TTK than other classes as it is would make them more op. a 2 second big heal is also a joke. wot do u expect to be a aquishly light armour wearer and be unkillable? also having heals that can be interuptted lol are you serious. that would kill pvp and kill healers. n1 would bother then with merc or ops healers.

 

if your having probs with your sorc/sage with wot ever spec i suggest u read up on blogs r google guides of players for those classes that pull incredible numbers im sure there many out there. stop demanding stuff that makes ur class op.

 

going by wot u said if they were to be added wot would be next pyrotechs like me on occassion asking for more burst/sustained damage. wait maye have no cooldown on rail shot so we can be a rail shot spammer like mercs are tracer missle spammers? please if wot your suggesting for your class were to be added (they wont) but should they every class would have people demanding/suggesting how there classes should be given to be more unkillable themselfs. wot bout tanks having 100% damage absorb for 2 minute duration or a sin dps given 3 more stun with short cds. the list would go on and on with demands.

 

as for pvp the only thing i think needs sorting is resolve. it should cover roots and knockbacks when bar is full not just stuns

[Darth_Philar]

as for pvp the only thing i think needs sorting is resolve. it should cover roots and knockbacks when bar is full not just stuns

 

Obvious Marauder protecting his extreme advantage over Sorcs is obvious.

 

Next time try a little harder to cover your bias if you want to successfully troll a Sorc thread.

Edited July 11, 2012 by Darth_Philar

[dcgregorya]

Fix them by somehow teaching all their players to play better. My sorc does fine.

[Rompdomp]

why is it sorcs/sages always want more. your class is working fine. played properly there are no force issues, i have sorc and dont have probs although its an alt these days. specced right u can do some nasty damage highest i seen so far from a sorc was like 400-450k damage not that abd for a light armour caster.

 

as for healer other day i saw a sorc healer with 700k+ healing granted the enemy team didnt seem to focus him often but thats pretty impressive considering 1.2 supposedly nerfed sorcs/sages.

 

the cleanse protection idea is a joke everyone would demand it and for it to only be limited to a class that already has a longer TTK than other classes as it is would make them more op. a 2 second big heal is also a joke. wot do u expect to be a aquishly light armour wearer and be unkillable? also having heals that can be interuptted lol are you serious. that would kill pvp and kill healers. n1 would bother then with merc or ops healers.

 

if your having probs with your sorc/sage with wot ever spec i suggest u read up on blogs r google guides of players for those classes that pull incredible numbers im sure there many out there. stop demanding stuff that makes ur class op.

 

going by wot u said if they were to be added wot would be next pyrotechs like me on occassion asking for more burst/sustained damage. wait maye have no cooldown on rail shot so we can be a rail shot spammer like mercs are tracer missle spammers? please if wot your suggesting for your class were to be added (they wont) but should they every class would have people demanding/suggesting how there classes should be given to be more unkillable themselfs. wot bout tanks having 100% damage absorb for 2 minute duration or a sin dps given 3 more stun with short cds. the list would go on and on with demands.

 

as for pvp the only thing i think needs sorting is resolve. it should cover roots and knockbacks when bar is full not just stuns

 

I'm not disagreeing with you that sorcs cannot do ok.However, just pointing to raw damage and healing numbers is a joke. If I am healing and you leave me alone I will heal the crap out of everyone. We are a very high output class when we can just stand there ( we still are top notch pve healers). The problem most people have is that we are a light armor class with no survive-ability and tons of kiting abilities, but in order to heal effectively we have to be standing in place. Its poor class design. There are way too many gap closers in this game for us to kite and then turret cast. Same goes for DPS. The TK tree does have the ability to do some burst if you just stand there, but no good team is gonna let that happen, and TK does not have the ability to do any decent damage what so ever on the move. Balance has more mobility, but it still requires you to channel abilities in order to maintain force, and many times you don't get this luxury so you run out of force. The only viable specs we can use in pvp are hybrid specs where we can get the stay alive and mana efficiency goodies from the TK tree (whether your dps or heals). Its just a bad class design for pvp and a few tweaks to make the play style make sense are needed. I'm not saying you can't be successful on a sage, its just a poorly designed class for pvp as it stands.