Just dinged 50 ... What should be the gear discrepancy

[Dahools]

Dinged 50 yesterday and grabbed my recruit set. I have something in the range of 12,500 to 13k hp's depending on buffs. I have been playing mmo's and pvping in them since 1999. How do game developers consistently create dumb barriers to entry for new players by creating silly gear discprepancies.

After running about a dozen WZ's and fighting against 19 and 20k hp players that I can assume are WH and augmented, it's disconcerting to see more than a twice to three times the power in player gear. I can barely tickle these guys and my HP's go down faster than ever experienced as a level 10 in WZ's. I predominantly levelled up through pvp, so I understand the mechanics of SWTOR pvp.

 

The main point of the thread is what should be the power difference in mmo's between fresh max level characters with welfare gear versus the guy who has squeezed 18 hours a day for the last 3 years on his guy. My assessment is about 30 to 35 percent more powerful. Between HP and damage discrepancy, the current SWTOR ratio is about 100 to 150 percent better.

 

I don't care about getting mauled for the first 50 to 100 games to get some gear, it's just dumb that that's the game design. In my experience players will still grind a ton to go from welfare gear to the 30 percent better gear.

 

So as to the post, What's the community's opinion on what the ratio should be in power increase from beginner gear to maxed out gear?

[Haeos]

blah blah blah blah blah.

 

Do warzones for a week and get full bm, then it''s not so bad. We all did it, you can too. Some of us actually did it when it was pure luck if you got a BM token.

[Maxkardinal]

blah blah blah blah blah.

 

Do warzones for a week and get full bm, then it''s not so bad. We all did it, you can too. Some of us actually did it when it was pure luck if you got a BM token.

 

You are one of the developers? Level of clulessness is about there.

 

Op's talking about retarded system. Hes not asking BM set right after 50, he asks gear you can actualy play with.

 

Right now 13k dude is a empty place in a team.

 

Recruit gear should be worst of 3 sets, but it should not be that bad.

Edited July 10, 2012 by Maxkardinal

[Fidopro]

its pretty much like any other MMO in the planet when you ding max level

 

a week or so of getting owned badly until you gear up a bit

[LeggoMyMuoio]

You are one of the developers? Level of clulessness is about there.

 

Op's talking about retarded system. Hes not asking BM set right after 50, he asks gear you can actualy play with.

 

Right now 13k dude is a empty place in a team.

 

Recruit gear should be worst of 3 sets, but it should not be that bad.

 

The problem is they have to balance stat weights to PvE gear otherwise there comes a point where Operation gear becomes better than PvP gear. PvE gear needs logical gaps otherwise people could be raiding the top level Operations with fresh 50 gear. It's unfortunate that there needs to be a balance between the two, but it just has to be there. Luckily, as someone posted above, a week of being useless and you'll have enough BM gear to be valuable.

[IIIGinoIII]

Luckily, as someone posted above, a week of being useless and you'll have enough BM gear to be valuable.

 

 

Yeah but who suffers here? Not just the guy in that gear. But the whole team suffers. Sure i went through my pounding for a few weeks. I am now at least useful. It seems going into a room half the people are either recruit gear or no PvP gear. I know I'm walking into a mine field but one thing I've always expressed. Let's make this game based on skilll and strategy and not gear and stims.

[Varicite]

Yeah but who suffers here? Not just the guy in that gear. But the whole team suffers. Sure i went through my pounding for a few weeks. I am now at least useful. It seems going into a room half the people are either recruit gear or no PvP gear. I know I'm walking into a mine field but one thing I've always expressed. Let's make this game based on skilll and strategy and not gear and stims.

 

You also said this is your first MMO, right? That you come from a Xbox console background?

 

There are other games based on skill and strategy. This one has gear and stims added to the mix.

Edited July 10, 2012 by Varicite

[IIIGinoIII]

You also said this is your first MMO, right? That you come from a Xbox console background?

 

There are other games based on skill and strategy. This one has gear and stims added to the mix.

 

It sure is, would you rather lose to a team cause they are better geared or better skilled? This guy is right. You only tickle the fully geared people. If that

Edited July 10, 2012 by IIIGinoIII

[Varicite]

It sure is, would you rather lose to a team cause they are better geared or better skilled? This guy is right. You only tickle the fully geared people. If that

 

At the War Hero level, this argument disappears entirely.

 

I do agree that Recruit should have been a bit better. Still have no idea why they didn't just update the stats on Centurion gear and let that be the entry-level gear.

[thefishdude]

I dinged 50 on Sunday morning (my alt sniper). I was maxed out on rated and regular wz comms. i was able to purchase my WH earpiece, WH implant and BM main hand. After completing the three PVP quest (daily, weekly & newbie pvp mission) and several additional wz, I bought my BM off hand, BM chest and BM gloves. All of this was done by Monday evening.

 

Now, there's still a gear discrepancy with a full WH; however, I should be fully BM geared by next Sunday. It does suck to go up against a full WH toon (especially when they track you down to kill an "easy target"); however, it won't be long before I'm completely rocking their world with my Dots & Cull..

[Alkiii]

As a DPS Sage (Balance), even in almost full Warhero gear, I still "tickle" my enemies.

 

My strategy: Run in, DoT as many as I can until someone spots me ... then run like hell.

 

 

Tough being a DPS Sage these days in PvP. Totally worth the DPS nerf resulting from the level 1-49 crying.

[IIIGinoIII]

I do agree that Recruit should have been a bit better. Still have no idea why they didn't just update the stats on Centurion gear and let that be the entry-level gear.

 

I'm glad we finally agree on something. I just wished recruit gear was better balanced. Like I said I've almost completed my Ranked gear but it seems half my teamates are still recruit gear, and I'm the one who suffers. Shoot, I still see people with any PvP gear. At least each match.

[AllanGand]

They really need to make the recruit gear to be equal with the BM gear. Just take the set bonus from it, and make it blue quality so you can't swap mods out of it or anything of the sort. As much as I like 1 shooting recruit gear sages on my jugg the current gear gap is complete and utter bs.

[Khoraji]

Dinged 50 yesterday and grabbed my recruit set. I have something in the range of 12,500 to 13k hp's depending on buffs. I have been playing mmo's and pvping in them since 1999. How do game developers consistently create dumb barriers to entry for new players by creating silly gear discprepancies.

After running about a dozen WZ's and fighting against 19 and 20k hp players that I can assume are WH and augmented, it's disconcerting to see more than a twice to three times the power in player gear. I can barely tickle these guys and my HP's go down faster than ever experienced as a level 10 in WZ's. I predominantly levelled up through pvp, so I understand the mechanics of SWTOR pvp.

 

The main point of the thread is what should be the power difference in mmo's between fresh max level characters with welfare gear versus the guy who has squeezed 18 hours a day for the last 3 years on his guy. My assessment is about 30 to 35 percent more powerful. Between HP and damage discrepancy, the current SWTOR ratio is about 100 to 150 percent better.

 

I don't care about getting mauled for the first 50 to 100 games to get some gear, it's just dumb that that's the game design. In my experience players will still grind a ton to go from welfare gear to the 30 percent better gear.

 

So as to the post, What's the community's opinion on what the ratio should be in power increase from beginner gear to maxed out gear?

 

Its not double/triple your power for one.

 

Secondly, why didnt you save up comms and get your BM gear

 

finally, dont worry, you will have your BM gear in about 2 weeks if that. And just augment it and you will do just fine.

[matslarson]

versus the guy who has squeezed 18 hours a day for the last 3 years on his guy.

 

Lol, yeah I hate when I go up against people who've spent 3 years playing a game that's been out for barely 6 months.

 

Wormholes in the space-time continuum are so OP.

Edited July 11, 2012 by matslarson

[Sinemetu]

Its not double/triple your power for one.

 

Secondly, why didnt you save up comms and get your BM gear

 

finally, dont worry, you will have your BM gear in about 2 weeks if that. And just augment it and you will do just fine.

 

Recruit gear vs augmented WH probably is double or triple the power. Augmented WH can squash a recruit or two on the way to an actual fight and still have 50% HP.

[Meparch]

Recruit gear really is fail. PvP hasn't been this poorly designed since lvl 50 in BM gear were beating up lvl 10s in WZ.

 

Whomever thought this was a good idea needs to go work for walmart. There are plenty of young and talented people wanting to get into game design that can do a better job with no experience than this. It is really that bad of a fail.

[Nolenthar]

There is too much of a gap, that's for sure. BM grinding is tolerable and fast (especially if you were smart enough to save up your comms before 50).

 

I still think commendations shouldn't cap, or not at 2000 at least.

 

A player who level from 10 to 50 doing PvP should start there with at the very least full battlemaster gear.

[LenrocNewDawn]

Recruit is better then Centurion was. You get recruit for free while you had to earn centurion. Recruit is often better then the gear you dinged with, both PvP and PvE wise. There is a fairly big gap between recruit and augmented WH gear but BM is also fairly easy to acquire. When you are are equipped in mostly recruit gear you don't go Rambo style and then come here and complain you are squishy. What you do is playing wing-man for a better geared player, help him with CC and damage while counting on him to protect you if you get jumped. Sometimes you'll just draw the short stick and get pitted against a much better team, just suck it in and get back in there. You'll be fine, the med-center will pick you up .

 

TL;DR Adapt and overcome!

Edited July 11, 2012 by LenrocNewDawn

[Macabrae]

Recruit gear really is fail. PvP hasn't been this poorly designed since lvl 50 in BM gear were beating up lvl 10s in WZ.

 

Whomever thought this was a good idea needs to go work for walmart. There are plenty of young and talented people wanting to get into game design that can do a better job with no experience than this. It is really that bad of a fail.

 

Wierd, WOW the most successful MMO in history has 3 levels of gear and the starting set is teribile against the others, in fact, unlike SWTOR who actually gives you the first set WOW makes your earn theirs.......

[Darth_Philar]

In a good PvP system, there is no gear discrepancy because there is no gear (at least no stats from gear).

 

There are 3 kinds of MMO players:

1. PvE - These guys want gear progression because it defines the RPG genre. They also don't like PvP.

2. CvC - Character versus Character. These guys want gear progression because it makes them better able to beat other people without need to actually outskill them, they simply need to outgear them. They like to kill other players but they want their character's class, spec, team, and gear to do most of the work for them.

3. PvP - These guys are the minority as they want no RPG elements mucking up their game. They also make up such a small portion of the paying subscriber base that their position is largely ignored (GW did a decent job of catering to these guys, but still not perfect).

 

Games like SWTOR and WOW cater to the first two groups but not the third. We don't have PvP in this game. What we and BW call PvP is actually CvC.

[Illiyana]

You are one of the developers? Level of clulessness is about there.

 

Op's talking about retarded system. Hes not asking BM set right after 50, he asks gear you can actualy play with.

 

Right now 13k dude is a empty place in a team.

 

 

This is not always true. My sniper is in recruit and can definitely contribute to a win. While this is not the case with every class (fresh recruit melee are pretty much a waste of space, i agree), knowing your abilities and how to best use them to support objective play can turn your "empty place in a team" into a MVP.

[Macabrae]

In a good PvP system, there is no gear discrepancy because there is no gear (at least no stats from gear).

 

There are 3 kinds of MMO players:

1. PvE - These guys want gear progression because it defines the RPG genre. They also don't like PvP.

2. CvC - Character versus Character. These guys want gear progression because it makes them better able to beat other people without need to actually outskill them, they simply need to outgear them. They like to kill other players but they want their character's class, spec, team, and gear to do most of the work for them.

3. PvP - These guys are the minority as they want no RPG elements mucking up their game. They also make up such a small portion of the paying subscriber base that their position is largely ignored (GW did a decent job of catering to these guys, but still not perfect).

 

Games like SWTOR and WOW cater to the first two groups but not the third. We don't have PvP in this game. What we and BW call PvP is actually CvC.

 

Again WOW (The most successful MMO in history) has MAJOR gear discrepencies and PVP is a huge part of their game.

[Darth_Philar]

Again WOW (The most successful MMO in history) has MAJOR gear discrepencies and PVP is a huge part of their game.

 

WoW does not have PvP. It has CvC which is similar but different.

Actual PvP players really resent the fact that what passes as competitive play in games like WoW and SWTOR is called PvP.

Edited July 11, 2012 by Darth_Philar

[Macabrae]

WoW does not have PvP. It has CvC which is similar but different.

Actual PvP players really resent the fact that what passes as competitive play in games like WoW and SWTOR is called PvP.

 

 

 

Ok that is YOUR opinion, however, don't say "Actual" pvp players resent it cause the Arena system and PVP is WOW is very popular. I like a system where I have to earn my gear personally.....I don't get bored nearly as easy. That is my opinion and that is all that it is.