TheOpf Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 I just think I like the play-style of operative more than sniper. I know Lethality is the most mobile sniper, but it's still not as mobile as operative. I also like the access to heals, since Lingering Toxins makes getting out of combat to self heal a mofo. And again, two words - Imperial Brew. There is a reason I deleted my sniper. I can't stand the cover system. The Lethality/Dirty Fighter is the most mobile spec in terms of ways to deal damage in the game. I agree, single target, their DoT is better, much because of the fact that their burst damage rotation requires the application of them, anyways. But what they can't do, is spread their DoTs amongst the enemy team at 30m range, and have them tick away for 18-21 seconds. PT DoTs require more active application, and thus are only potent against the enemy they are currently targetting. It's a whole different animal. Our DoTs get more bang for their buck (3 times the duration, 3 times the range, and energy regen.). Except their dot is applied by a 3k base line low cost attack that you can't mitigate, and applies a 6 second 50 percent slow. If Vital shot hit for 3k than we could compare. I've actually considered making a Madness sorc for a long time. Problem is, I don't have the time to play, to start a whole new character. Plus jedi are lame Haha, it's why my guardian is still lvl 31. I carry a vibro sword instead of a lightsaber ;p. I don't like casters. But if I were Madness is the only way i would go, it's the only mobile caster that I know of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonzeK Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 you say, they are, NO DPS? every wz i join, i'm going crazy because an operative that goes stealth anytime, and USES HIS DAMN KNIFE(shiva i guess) ALL THE TIME,CANT RESIST NO ****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacito Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 you say, they are, NO DPS? every wz i join, i'm going crazy because an operative that goes stealth anytime, and USES HIS DAMN KNIFE(shiva i guess) ALL THE TIME,CANT RESIST NO ****. I guess there's also several operatives teaming up and stunlocking you for several minutes straight when you play a warzone. Which causes you to unsub. *nods* Clearly, there's only one solution: Nerf operatives, and do it fast! After all, when teaming up and attacking lonely targets, they are STILL able to kill things! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
furiousferret Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 (edited) I went back to Concealment for the weekend after not playing it for a few months. I've been Lethality or Medicine since 1.2. Playing it is a blast and for single target 1v1 its still a very good spec but the game does not revolve around 1v1. I respecced to Lethality for the same reasons others did; more uptime and less reliance on stealth. Its fairly obvious why Concealment Operatives dont get many spots in rateds, they just dont put up the pressure other DPS Classes do. There are just too many why bring concealment when I can bring (insert melee class here). Powertechs - Currently best damage dealer in game, and can taunt. Most rateds run 2-3 Marauders - Probably the best single target damage, and tons of group utility. Most rateds run 1-2 Juggernauts - Decent Damage, can offtank in a pinch, tons of cc, taunts. Most rateds run 0-2 Assassins - Good single target damage, taunts, good survivability. Most rateds run 1-2 For a team effort, concealment is lacking. Its hard to effectively focus fire targets with other DPS since there is no gap closer and the game has so much AOE that can break you out of stealth. There is a huge DPS loss with setup time; by the time an Operative hits his Hidden Strike at the beginning of a match a Marauder, Juggernaut, or Ranged DPS is already on their 5th damage dealing GCD (which is roughly 15k damage) Yes, Assassins have this issue as well but its tolerable as they are much better defensively. Operatives can pick off single targets, but a Marauder is better at this role, as they can Force Leap to the next target after the kill. Operatives have to restealth (if its not bugged or you're dotted) or walk to the next target, again, a DPS loss. Additionally, why bring a class that is a great single target damage dealer, when you can bring a class with close to the same single target burst and additional AOE damage? We do run a Concealment Operative in rateds, but he's an exceptional player and geared. In fact, he's the only concealment Op I've seen in 100 matches so far. I have seen 2 scrapper equivalents and dont even bother getting a peel because the damage is easy to outheal. Edited July 30, 2012 by furiousferret Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOpf Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 I went back to Concealment for the weekend after not playing it for a few months. I've been Lethality or Medicine since 1.2. Playing it is a blast and for single target 1v1 its still a very good spec but the game does not revolve around 1v1. I respecced to Lethality for the same reasons others did; more uptime and less reliance on stealth. Its fairly obvious why Concealment Operatives dont get many spots in rateds, they just dont put up the pressure other DPS Classes do. There are just too many why bring concealment when I can bring (insert melee class here). Powertechs - Currently best damage dealer in game, and can taunt. Most rateds run 2-3 Marauders - Probably the best single target damage, and tons of group utility. Most rateds run 1-2 Juggernauts - Decent Damage, can offtank in a pinch, tons of cc, taunts. Most rateds run 0-2 Assassins - Good single target damage, taunts, good survivability. Most rateds run 1-2 For a team effort, concealment is lacking. Its hard to effectively focus fire targets with other DPS since there is no gap closer and the game has so much AOE that can break you out of stealth. There is a huge DPS loss with setup time; by the time an Operative hits his Hidden Strike at the beginning of a match a Marauder, Juggernaut, or Ranged DPS is already on their 5th damage dealing GCD (which is roughly 15k damage) Yes, Assassins have this issue as well but its tolerable as they are much better defensively. Operatives can pick off single targets, but a Marauder is better at this role, as they can Force Leap to the next target after the kill. Operatives have to restealth (if its not bugged or you're dotted) or walk to the next target, again, a DPS loss. Additionally, why bring a class that is a great single target damage dealer, when you can bring a class with close to the same single target burst and additional AOE damage? We do run a Concealment Operative in rateds, but he's an exceptional player and geared. In fact, he's the only concealment Op I've seen in 100 matches so far. I have seen 2 scrapper equivalents and dont even bother getting a peel because the damage is easy to outheal. I play Scrapper and Dirty Fighting, and my job is the same regardless of which spec I am in. Because my damage isn't on top of the charts, and neither do I provide any group benefit except damage. I am relegated to door guarding the non-zerg door (stealth is amazing for this), turret guarding (more stuns and cc on instant), and node defense in the Coast. I will get about 100-220k damage a ranked wz, but that's about it, due to my relegation to standing at the node and guarding. In fact, every operative/scoundrel I talked to has the exact same job. It's why I am leveling a guardian and Sage, I would like to do something besides guard the node. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyntari Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 (edited) I play Scrapper and Dirty Fighting, and my job is the same regardless of which spec I am in. Because my damage isn't on top of the charts, and neither do I provide any group benefit except damage. I am relegated to door guarding the non-zerg door (stealth is amazing for this), turret guarding (more stuns and cc on instant), and node defense in the Coast. I will get about 100-220k damage a ranked wz, but that's about it, due to my relegation to standing at the node and guarding. In fact, every operative/scoundrel I talked to has the exact same job. It's why I am leveling a guardian and Sage, I would like to do something besides guard the node. Pretty much. The class is relatively solid in 1v1, 1v2, 2v2, etc. It's not as good in a pitched fight however, like say 6v6. No group buffs, average damage, below average mobility, below average ability to stay on target and/or hard switch targets, and below average survivability under focus fire = rofl go guard the node. Edited July 31, 2012 by Kyntari Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboyup Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Pretty much. The class is relatively solid in 1v1, 1v2, 2v2, etc. It's not as good in a pitched fight however, like say 6v6. No group buffs, average damage, below average mobility, below average ability to stay on target and/or hard switch targets, and below average survivability under focus fire = rofl go guard the node. You couldn't have said it better. It's probably my only complaint at this point for Rated Warzones. Maybe changing Acid blade so that it grants a certain amount of armor pen for your teammates as well would be a step in the right direction. Otherwise the class is solid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOpf Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Pretty much. The class is relatively solid in 1v1, 1v2, 2v2, etc. It's not as good in a pitched fight however, like say 6v6. No group buffs, average damage, below average mobility, below average ability to stay on target and/or hard switch targets, and below average survivability under focus fire = rofl go guard the node. I actually can outdamage anyone except our Guild PT. Humorously enough the man can do 400k damage as a PT tank. The aoe damage output of railshot is crazy. As a tank his Railshot hits for 3200 that's slightly worse than my scrapper shoot first and backblast. I do great damage at mid, the problem is I have to go into melee, and don't have the defensive cooldowns or damage output to warrant it. Without a gap closer I am also the worst at moving from node to node. Our sorcs, sins, and mara's, are the node switchers. The PT's may not have a reliable speed boost, but their damage is so good they make up for the slow switches by blowing people up. So go guard a node becomes the call. It's sad because the other node guarder is usually our Commando for the exact same reason - almost no mobility though his burst damage is much better than mine so he is usually with the main group. We have a unique way to play. We send a sage/sorc to cap the node while I run interference than we switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOpf Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 (edited) You couldn't have said it better. It's probably my only complaint at this point for Rated Warzones. Maybe changing Acid blade so that it grants a certain amount of armor pen for your teammates as well would be a step in the right direction. Otherwise the class is solid. Actually it's not solid. It's broken. Your biggest hitter is the single weakest big hitter in the game. Shoot first will hit for 4k at top gear levels, and back blast the same thing. You have no gap closer outside of a 2 minute vanish. Your damage outside of 4m is completely horrible. Your easily killed by the other melee, and your single greatest attribute is stealth, but you can't get into it as much as Sins or Maras. What would help fix is if you had a gap closer that allowed you to use shoot first out of stealth every 30-45 seconds. This would not be game breaking but would allow you to actually be able to use a key ability more than once every 2 minutes. Instead WH geared healers laugh, and the only classes you can handle 1v1 are Mara's, other Operatives, Commandos, and sages with their shields down. Concealment is more broken than Lethality. At least with lethality you have the 2nd highest damage dots in the game, and aren't as reliant on stealth. Did you know Deception Assassins have significantly higher burst than you? Even crazier their burst is reusable over and over again in a fight. They can also drop into stealth more often and have a great escape or gap closer in Force speed. Their defensive cooldowns are better, and their biggest hitter Voltanic Slash x2 to shock is usable at any time. Edited July 31, 2012 by TheOpf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MobiusZero Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 (edited) B-b-but...but...but......We have flash bang!!! And healz! Edited July 31, 2012 by MobiusZero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOpf Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 B-b-but...but...but......We have flash bang!!! And healz! My favorite was Big George's comment that deception assassins couldn't receive the same burst nerf as scoundrels because their dps was not an instealth stun attack. Except he nerfed BackBlast but didn't nerf Shock or Voltanic Slash or Maul. haha, I know about 3 scoundrels who actually heal mid fight. The rest of us run away to heal except we don't have a reliable way to get away to heal. FlashBang really makes me laugh sometimes. I use it as an interrupt because other than that it's pretty worthless haha. I have yet to find someone who disagrees. Flashbang is amazing in pugs where people stand next to eachother while node defending, but in ranked, everyone stands 15-20 m away from each other when node defending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gomigakari Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 So a Concealment Op records a highlight reel of their 1v1 successes.... It doesn't show the whole story, now does it? What's wrong with Operatives, you ask? The fact that there's like a 20 to 1 Marauder to Operative ratio, is about all the information you need. I think that's more conclusive proof that more players prefer dual sabers to a gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MobiusZero Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 (edited) I think that's more conclusive proof that more players prefer dual sabers to a gun. Then explain away the 20 to 1 Powertech to Operative ratio. Edited August 2, 2012 by MobiusZero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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