Teams of wich class causing people to unsub?

[Ntranced]

Right now it appears you either re-roll one of the following classes or you just cancel your sub:

 

- Marauder

- Pyrotech

- Operative (if you want to heal)

 

Starting planets on my server are full of people rolling these characters, sub 50 warzones are full of pyro/mara/op heals and if you aren't a tank or fall in to one of these classes you are unlikely to be wanted in ranked (sure you might get a spot, but they will be secretly wishing you were actually one of the classes listed above regardless of how good a player you are).

 

Gear is largely immaterial (my op healer in BM augmented > my sorc healer in WH augmented) regardless of the player. Skill is largely immaterial because the TTK is so low there is no strategy in a fight, no counters, just a gib fest with the same classes using the same 4 (maybe 5) rotations over and over again.

 

Before anyone replies "L2P" it has nothing to do with player skill, any skill you bring to a class is magnified by the abilities of the class you are playing. And in case anyone thinks I am just a sore sage/commando/whatever I have all the three classes I listed above in my roster already.

 

I want to play all my characters to their full potential, I would like to think that in order to get a spot in ranked I'm not limited to logging on to one DPS char or another, one heal class or another. That was your idea for PVE wasn't it, that one class type should not be considered so good the others aren't considered? We are currently nowhere near that scenario. Your precious metrics must tell you this, your character creations since 1.2 must also tell you this.

 

You famously once said that teams of operatives stunlocked people causing them to unsub. So Bioware, when are you going to address current PVP balance that causes a large amount of classes to re-roll or just quit?

 

Do we have to wait for 1.4? 1.5? 2.0?

[Invictusthetaru]

Gunslingers are pretty much required for a good rated team, don't forget that. Our guild has no problems with marauders or PTs. They hit the hardest but are also high priority targets.

 

With taunts, peeling, effective stuns and good kiting marauders can be struggling to do good damage, or at least effective damage.

 

Have a vanguard + shadow tank combo that constantly pulls the PTs and marauders right after they get close and slows them. This takes them off target for ~9 seconds +.

[Hethroin]

Teams of well played cc-immune juggernaut tanks are causing me to unsub.

[Swaggz]

It's not teams of anything causing me to resub, it's the lack of utility my class has. If I actually had more than a knockback and stun, I'd be happy (and maybe even welcomed on RWZ teams). Hell, just adding utility to some of the classes (mainly ranged it seems) would probably negate all the QQ NERF (insert class) threads, although I can see most melee classes QQing if ranged got more utility....

 

Oh well, it is what it is. Just don't have the time or even motivation for another gear grind for the Assassin. 2-3 hours a day is pushing it with family, work, etc (sorry kids, some of us can't spend 4-5+ hours a day on a game). Was hoping 1.3 would bring more but oh well, guess I'll just let the ole time card run out and move on.

[Ntranced]

Lack of utility? On what class.

[Fidopro]

can anyone help me find the quote where the dev said packs of operatives were stunlocking people to death and causing them to unsub?

[Swaggz]

Lack of utility? On what class.

 

DPS mercs. 1 knockback, 1 stun...(don't even count Concussion missile since it has a cast time and not always saving Power Surge for that). Our Cure is nice as well, but limited on what it dispells.

 

Not saying we need alot more, hell, an interupt and an additional item (slow, speed boost, jump ability) would make mercs well rounded. Our damage is nice, burst is decent, it's just lack of overall utility.

Edited July 6, 2012 by Parali
reply to bad quote

[UGLYMRJ]

Nothing is causing me to unsub... even when I lose. I prefer to get better, practice, educate myself instead of whining and looking for an easy button. No MMO is balanced... not now... not ever. This game is pretty well balanced and all of the new content that has been released in 6 months makes me pretty optimistic about this games future.

 

IDK, that's just me though but I was taught that quitting is for the weak. It would be different if this was a bad game and that was the reason for quitting. But you're talking about quitting because of losing. I hope you don't live life like that. Brush it off and find a way to win... get better.

 

Or just quit and stop talking about it.

[Astarica]

I think right now the problem is just DPS in general. It's not as fun as it seems to kill someone in 3 seconds and it's even less fun when the same happens to you. There's some imbalance in general and that can be dealt with but the general instant kill nature of the WZ is not fun on either side.

[islander]

I queue almost exclusively as a heal/hybrid sorcerer. I'm not unsubbing anytime soon (now that I'm on a populated server!)

[MidichIorian]

The thing that is pissing me off in warzones are the players. I've come to terms with BW's failure in balancing classes but I will never accept the fotm'ers. I'm sticking to my sorc and sage and it's pretty much a given that I'm going to be the only dps from those classes in games nowdays. It's just sad that the other 11 sorcs/sages from games pre-1.2 couldnt take the heat.

[WickedImage]

 

You famously once said that teams of operatives stunlocked people causing them to unsub. So Bioware, when are you going to address current PVP balance that causes a large amount of classes to re-roll or just quit?

 

Do we have to wait for 1.4? 1.5? 2.0?

 

Hell I'd be happy if they'd simply acknowledge it at this point.....at least then we'd know they are aware the problem exists....

[kcol]

I think right now the problem is just DPS in general. It's not as fun as it seems to kill someone in 3 seconds and it's even less fun when the same happens to you. There's some imbalance in general and that can be dealt with but the general instant kill nature of the WZ is not fun on either side.

 

Agreed. TTK needs to be doubled so stratagies can evolve and change. The current zergfest is boring. I think this is why people enjoy the 10-49 bracket so much. You can screw up and have time to recover. The 50's bracket doesn't allow for this, one missed keybind and you're done.

[Autreki]

i honestly think all classes are somewhat ok, depending on how muc knowledge of the profession the player has.

 

the stuns are what make rage tears come out LOL

[WickedImage]

Agreed. TTK needs to be doubled so stratagies can evolve and change. The current zergfest is boring. I think this is why people enjoy the 10-49 bracket so much. You can screw up and have time to recover. The 50's bracket doesn't allow for this, one missed keybind and you're done.

 

You don't even have to miss a keybind for this to be true. On some of my characters, like my operative, I can be killed by 2 players in 4 global cd's (2 from each). You can't formulate a strategy for victory if you're going to only survive for 3 seconds.....

This isn't something that happens a lot, but when it does you wonder what the thought process for allowing this to be that way in game? When the game first launched the TTK was a lot more. Even when fighting a lvl 50 in the 10-49 bracket you had more time for a strategy as a lvl 24 vs lvl 50, back then.

[Astarica]

You don't even have to miss a keybind for this to be true. On some of my characters, like my operative, I can be killed by 2 players in 4 global cd's (2 from each). You can't formulate a strategy for victory if you're going to only survive for 3 seconds.....

This isn't something that happens a lot, but when it does you wonder what the thought process for allowing this to be that way in game? When the game first launched the TTK was a lot more. Even when fighting a lvl 50 in the 10-49 bracket you had more time for a strategy as a lvl 24 vs lvl 50, back then.

 

On say the Novare Coast where you know there's going to be a big brawl in the opening, I almost always lead the charge and die in under 5 seconds and there's pretty much nothing anyone can do to save me. And no finding another sucker to go in first isn't exactly a good idea when I'm the tank. It has nothing to do with the quality of the team/opposition. The first guy charging in is just always dead but someone has to be 'that guy'. PvP right now resembles more like trench warfare, i.e. if you cross this line you're totally dead except you must cross it at some point and that's just not very fun. And no even if your whole team rolled a ranged class there still has to be someone in your team that's the front-most guy and that guy is still totally dead. Is fun in PvP just hoping someone else draws the enemy attention so that you don't die in 3 GCDs?

[Mirthadrond]

You don't even have to miss a keybind for this to be true. On some of my characters, like my operative, I can be killed by 2 players in 4 global cd's (2 from each). You can't formulate a strategy for victory if you're going to only survive for 3 seconds.....

This isn't something that happens a lot, but when it does you wonder what the thought process for allowing this to be that way in game? When the game first launched the TTK was a lot more. Even when fighting a lvl 50 in the 10-49 bracket you had more time for a strategy as a lvl 24 vs lvl 50, back then.

 

Actually - they destroyed your OP AND my Healer Merc, in 5 GCD's. You in two, me during the next 3.

Mind you, I did have time to cast 1 heal (my instant) on him before he went down. The next heal was channeling, which I queued immediately after the first cast, when he went down. I got stunned, didn't fill my resolve so I didn't trinket, then 2 GCD's later I was dead as well.

 

For reference: Wickedimage has most of his BM gear, and my Merc has the 5 main pieces of BM. (head, chest, leg, glove, pant)

Edited July 6, 2012 by Mirthadrond

[Astarica]

There are times when someone calls out for help in WZ and I feel like the Agent in the opening the Matrix saying "Your defenders are already dead." Again this happens both ways and it's just not fun either way.

[Ntranced]

UGLYMRJ won't quote you as it just encourages your mumblings. But you miss the point of the thread, I don't care how good you are on X class and how much you practice, playing one of the three classes I listed gives you an additional advantage (and a fairly significant one at that) to other similar role classes.

 

If I'm good on my Sorc as DPS I'm a destroyer on my pyrotech. If I'm good as Sage heals I'm damn near godlike on my ... well you get the point now maybe.

 

You get the drift?

[Ntranced]

can anyone help me find the quote where the dev said packs of operatives were stunlocking people to death and causing them to unsub?

 

"If we leave the Operative the ability to stun lock and kill people — yes, there aren’t many Operatives — but over the long term, that means people will quit the game cause it’s not fun. We have very measurable statistics that tell us if people lose a certain number of Warzones in a row being stun locked by a team of Operatives, then that might be part of that, and they will be not as likely to re-subscribe."

 

Georg Zoeller

 

So yes, people will either quit the game if they don't want to re-roll because being instagibbed is only fun if you can do it too (thinking back to my days in Unreal Tournament Instagib matches).

Edited July 6, 2012 by Ntranced

[Astarica]

UGLYMRJ won't quote you as it just encourages your mumblings. But you miss the point of the thread, I don't care how good you are on X class and how much you practice, playing one of the three classes I listed gives you an additional advantage (and a fairly significant one at that) to other similar role classes.

 

If I'm good on my Sorc as DPS I'm a destroyer on my pyrotech. If I'm good as Sage heals I'm damn near godlike on my ... well you get the point now maybe.

 

You get the drift?

 

Well here's the issue. Doing DPS, no matter what people claim, is not very hard. Everyone can reaosnably figure out what CDs to push to maximize DPS and that's all good.

 

Now this is fine in the past when you have time to react to incoming DPS with your CDs, but right now your thought process is more like: "That DPS is about to unload, let me use my... too late already dead."

 

And while isn't a class specific thing (all the powerhouse DPS classes are equally susceptible to their own DPS) it takes a lot out of the complexity and makes class that relies on more subtle playing less useful. If your average expected time to live is 5 seconds, it's almost certainly correct to pick the class that does the most DPS over anything else because you certainly won't be able to do anything else except DPS in that 5 seconds.

 

It used to be more balanced because classes that aren't great on burst DPS can do other stuff if they survive the initial barrage. Now nobody survives the initial barrage so you might as well pick the class with the best initial barrage.

Edited July 6, 2012 by Astarica

[vimm]

Teams of well played cc-immune juggernaut tanks are causing me to unsub.

 

The CC immunity is in the DPS tree.

[kirdapeswtor]

Firstly I won't unsub, and if I do it will be for different reasons than any team composition in a WZ.

 

I have 3 lvl 50s but I don't PVP on them anymore. 1 is full BM with WH weapon, but I strongly prefer PVP in the 10-49 bracket. I'm usually PUGing and at lvl 50 that's just incredibly tedious and no fun. TTK is as stated way too fast.

 

My problem is how they've made the expertise stat work. It scales with gear so that becomes more important than skill. The new augmentation syystem made the problem even worse. I don't mind that those who work for it are rewarded or even rewarded with better gear than I can muster, it's that way in every other game I've PVP'd in. I mind that it encourages gear grinding but discourages player skill. I think the last should be the most important. Bioware obviously does not. My best proof of this is the amount of time it takes to first get your WH set then get it all augmented then grind even more WH gear so you can pull out the right mods/enhancements and scale your personal stats, I mean it's a joke. So I'm boycotting lvl 50 PVP for the time being. I'm having tremendous fun in the 10-49 bracket so obviously the PVP aspect isn't completely broken, but endgame lvl 50 is, and my culprit is expertise/excessive unneccesarily long and tedious gear grind to just be competitive.

 

A gear grind that is further causing imbalances due to the server population issues (favoring imp over rep) and favoring those who've always had access to a populated server vs those of us who happened to get the short end of the stick and rolled on servers where the population died and only lately have had a chance to even play warzones much.

 

One of my best friends and a better PVP'er than me quit point blank after 1.2 because he'd spent several months grinding gear doing daily PVP and only had a few BM pieces to show for it. When he saw me and others getting full BM geared in a week or so that was it. He felt cheated.

Edited July 6, 2012 by kirdapeswtor
updating

[Ntranced]

I have 3 lvl 50s but I don't PVP on them anymore. 1 is full BM with WH weapon, but I strongly prefer PVP in the 10-49 bracket. I'm usually PUGing and at lvl 50 that's just incredibly tedious and no fun. TTK is as stated way too fast.

 

One of my best friends and a better PVP'er than me quit point blank after 1.2 because he'd spent several months grinding gear doing daily PVP and only had a few BM pieces to show for it. When he saw me and others getting full BM geared in a week or so that was it. He felt cheated.

 

I agree with all of your post, I too loved pre 50 PVP on every char I've rolled. BW have made some really strange decisions - the one that annoyed me personally the most was logging in one day and discovering my Champion gear (a grind I hated) was suddenly worse than the gear you could buy with cash. That gear is now even free.

 

As for balance I just want an even playing field. For all types.

Edited July 6, 2012 by Ntranced

[FourTwent]

Right now it appears you either re-roll one of the following classes or you just cancel your sub:

 

- Marauder

- Pyrotech

- Operative (if you want to heal)

 

Starting planets on my server are full of people rolling these characters, sub 50 warzones are full of pyro/mara/op heals and if you aren't a tank or fall in to one of these classes you are unlikely to be wanted in ranked (sure you might get a spot, but they will be secretly wishing you were actually one of the classes listed above regardless of how good a player you are).

 

Gear is largely immaterial (my op healer in BM augmented > my sorc healer in WH augmented) regardless of the player. Skill is largely immaterial because the TTK is so low there is no strategy in a fight, no counters, just a gib fest with the same classes using the same 4 (maybe 5) rotations over and over again.

 

Before anyone replies "L2P" it has nothing to do with player skill, any skill you bring to a class is magnified by the abilities of the class you are playing. And in case anyone thinks I am just a sore sage/commando/whatever I have all the three classes I listed above in my roster already.

 

I want to play all my characters to their full potential, I would like to think that in order to get a spot in ranked I'm not limited to logging on to one DPS char or another, one heal class or another. That was your idea for PVE wasn't it, that one class type should not be considered so good the others aren't considered? We are currently nowhere near that scenario. Your precious metrics must tell you this, your character creations since 1.2 must also tell you this.

 

You famously once said that teams of operatives stunlocked people causing them to unsub. So Bioware, when are you going to address current PVP balance that causes a large amount of classes to re-roll or just quit?

 

Do we have to wait for 1.4? 1.5? 2.0?

 

its called a meta game. even if things are 100% completely balanced. You will still see the FotM classes from time to time. And because people see so many of them, they start picking apart each and every thing about said class explaining why it's OP.

 

You must be new to MMOs