Baarabas Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Can the rest of our DPS be brought up to Powertech Pyrotech and Marauder DPS? Can the Devs really be that blind not to see that there is a huge gap? One simple look at a PvP results menu will show the DPS tops, and it is almost always one of those two classes. Another is to look at a Parser. Even in PvE these two classes rule the roost. In an Ops group, all Rakata, the numbers speak for themselves. To make it so bad, certain specs wont get a boat space for an Ops group if you are not one of those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Telree Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Balance in an MMO is a myth. No MMO has ever achieved it, and probably never will...you want balance in PvP play a FPS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurnsTwoThree Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Can the rest of our DPS be brought up to Powertech Pyrotech and Marauder DPS? Other DPS should not be brought up, but rather they should be brought down. Some DPS classes deserve a slight buff as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
durhame Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 (edited) Balance in an MMO is a myth. No MMO has ever achieved it, and probably never will...you want balance in PvP play a FPS. Absolute rubbish. I'm a focus/vigi when it suites me. Fully auged and fully WH. Now, I can have sabre ward up full focus and focused defense up mind you either going up against an equally geared Mara or lesser mara. Now i did say my CDs where active,.... i have 19.7k HP. within three seconds and my CDS active they can take me down to 8k hp.... Unless i have a helaer with me. I'm dead,, they just run through and kill everything in there wake. To include MANY times i tell the PVP group to focus on one. So the mara's just dance around while no less then 5 people are focused on him and he is solo. I do aggree total balance may not be achieved. But this is NUTS absolute rediculous NUTS that maras are better tanks in WZs that bloody tanks. So now most folks are sentis on my side of the fence. I guess i might not be so mad if it didn't take me 7 months to get lvl 83 valor playing about 3 hours a day pvping,, maybe the occasional daily. but i just got my full WH not a little while ago. I would be really nice to not have to make pvp such and epic grind for gear or level so you can actually try to play onther class. Mara's are not flavor of the month. They seem to be flavor of the year!!!! Since 1.2 they are Godly. Now RWZ have 4 healers, 3 senti's and one tank. *** and even the tank isn't required. what is the point in playing? Edited July 5, 2012 by durhame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baarabas Posted July 5, 2012 Author Share Posted July 5, 2012 Now RWZ have 4 healers, 3 senti's and one tank. *** and even the tank isn't required. what is the point in playing? This is almost exactly what I'm seeing. No other DPS can carry 4 healers like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyDragonflame Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 (edited) Absolute rubbish. I'm a focus/vigi when it suites me. Fully auged and fully WH. Now, I can have sabre ward up full focus and focused defense up mind you either going up against an equally geared Mara or lesser mara. Now i did say my CDs where active,.... i have 19.7k HP. within three seconds and my CDS active they can take me down to 8k hp.... Unless i have a helaer with me. I'm dead,, they just run through and kill everything in there wake. You are dead, because you are bad, need l2p. There are simple class balance in game: 2 dps classes - sniper (range dps) and mara (melee dps), 3 tank classes - jugg, powertech and sin, and 3 healer classes - merc, sorc and op. So, each dps - hybrid from non-pure dps classes must be and will be ALWAYS worse, than pure dps class. There is the price of dual spec. If you choose tank class (jugg/guard), learn to play tank - guard healers, taunt enemies, gear tanky war leader... if you will be trying dps, you will always bad, and defeated to pure dps classes in similar gear and similar skill. So, l2p, just l2p. Edited July 5, 2012 by TonyDragonflame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alcek Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 (edited) @TonyDragonflame You have such a wrong set of ideas, that i started wondering - are you a BW dev? Everything what durhame said is spot on, and on top of that is exaclty what me and many other experience. But i will be here and pointing stuff at you when you finally get nerfed, be sure. Edited July 5, 2012 by alcek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siorac Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 You are dead, because you are bad, need l2p. There are simple class balance in game: 2 dps classes - sniper (range dps) and mara (melee dps), 3 tank classes - jugg, powertech and sin, and 3 healer classes - merc, sorc and op. So, each dps - hybrid from non-pure dps classes must be and will be ALWAYS worse, than pure dps class. There is the price of dual spec. If you choose tank class (jugg/guard), learn to play tank - guard healers, taunt enemies, gear tanky war leader... if you will be trying dps, you will always bad, and defeated to pure dps classes in similar gear and similar skill. So, l2p, just l2p. Ridiculous argument. A Vigilance or Focus specced Guardian is a DPS class with some extra utility. Now, I can fully accept the fact that the extra utility means less damage than what the real pure DPS do. That's fine. I have no problems with Gunslingers/Snipers outdamaging a Guardian. (although I could add that Vanguards/Powertechs have access to all the "tanking" utility of Guardians but they do a lot more damage). I do have a problem, however, with Sentinels/Marauders having SIGNIFICANTLY better survivability as well as better damage than DPS Guardians. They're better on both counts and that is not OK. Besides, the idea that Guardians/Juggernauts should only ever tank, that Sorcerers/Sages or Mercenaries/Commandos should only ever heal is retarded in the extreme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koppster Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Pyro powertech's smash everyon'e face in PvP. The dps they can pump out in a very short period of time is insane. I thought you said they were a tank class? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Never_Hesitate Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 (edited) Pyro powertech's smash everyon'e face in PvP. The dps they can pump out in a very short period of time is insane. I thought you said they were a tank class? They have a tank tree, yes But they also have 2 dps trees, so why shouldn't they put out dmg? Pyro pt is one of the dps trees and not the tank tree Before 1.2 sorcs smashed everyones faces and they are a "heal class". Edited July 5, 2012 by Never_Hesitate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spieljunge Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 .... Before 1.2 sorcs smashed everyones faces and they are a "heal class". Lol sorcs before 1.2 were mushrooms, now they can be ignored... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
durhame Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 You are dead, because you are bad, need l2p. There are simple class balance in game: 2 dps classes - sniper (range dps) and mara (melee dps), 3 tank classes - jugg, powertech and sin, and 3 healer classes - merc, sorc and op. So, each dps - hybrid from non-pure dps classes must be and will be ALWAYS worse, than pure dps class. There is the price of dual spec. If you choose tank class (jugg/guard), learn to play tank - guard healers, taunt enemies, gear tanky war leader... if you will be trying dps, you will always bad, and defeated to pure dps classes in similar gear and similar skill. So, l2p, just l2p. at the risk of not saying nice things i'll just say this. DPS classes should be squishy and tank classes should do less dps DOHHHHHHHHH. now SENTIS/mara should not have better survivability tools then a TANK CLASS. was i the ONLY guy who read that when the game launched and you went to the website to find out which class to play, it said Guardians can be DPS OR TANKS......... L2R..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinnedWill Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Rage/Focus Juggs/Guardians and DPS specced PT's/VG's (AP/Tactics, even, so long as the player is good and has experience - not just Pyro/Assault) all tend to out-dps Maras/Sents (of any spec - annihilation being the most consistant) and Snipers/Slingers (though the middle tree is AoE heavy, so they typically rack up the most consistant damage values) - hell, even my madness sorc. tops the charts more often/consistantly than marauders/sents/snipers/slingers (albeit, this is typically the result of gradual damage accumulating from weak DoT's, which is quite insignificant - hell, many sorc/sage healers don't even bother with purging/cleansing the DoT's anymore due to how weak they actually are ~350 for non-crit ticks from 2/3 of the DoTs, it's quite sad). Marauders/Sents don't out-tank juggs/guardians (of any spec, particularly Tank and middle), but yes, they DO last longer (5s from undying + 6-9s from force camo) in focus-fire situations since their defensive abilities are specifically designed to counter burst dps/ff - when they don't have these defensives, they drop like rocks - all you need to do to shut-down marauders/sents effectively is to outlast their cooldowns (or bypass them completely with a timely stun + burst or focus fire) - the trick to outlasting their cooldowns is heavily dependant upon countering their offensive burst windows - which is easily done if you know what your doing and how to counter each spec - if you counter their offensive windows, their DPS becomes annoying, at best. Honestly, the biggest DPS is coming from Pyro P-T/Assault VG - but people are much more likely to blame the marauder in their face more than the PT 10m away that is actually dishing out the bigger hits more often - part of it is due to the fact that they can't see beyond the melee in their face and part of it is due to the fact that marauders have a "finisher". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinnedWill Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 at the risk of not saying nice things i'll just say this. DPS classes should be squishy and tank classes should do less dps DOHHHHHHHHH. now SENTIS/mara should not have better survivability tools then a TANK CLASS. was i the ONLY guy who read that when the game launched and you went to the website to find out which class to play, it said Guardians can be DPS OR TANKS......... L2R..... PT/VG/Rage Jugg/Focus Guardian/Tankassin/Shadowtank 's would all like to say "hello" and ask you to check their damage numbers after the match (or just check your combat messages for "defeated by 'player x' with 'ability y' for 'zzzz damage' "). It must be mind-boggling for someone as proficient at reading as yourself to be unable to understand why these (tank-capable) classes are capable of dishing out more significant damage (more consistantly, too) than Maras/Sents. And sorry, but maras/sents only have more survivability than any tank for brief, burst-like/focus-fire situations (if the maras/sents can actually use their defensive cooldowns) - tanks (hell, even the DPS specs) easily last longer the rest of the time and in far more common situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baarabas Posted July 5, 2012 Author Share Posted July 5, 2012 DPS classes I am referring to are: 18) Sorc Madness 17) Jugg Rage 16) Sorc Lightning 15) Merc Arsenal 14) Merc Pyro These are the bottom 5 of the 18 DPS classes in game that need the most help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogoo Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Can the rest of our DPS be brought up to Powertech Pyrotech and Marauder DPS? Agreed. Those to FOTM classes need nerfs ASAP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasted_Coconuts Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Can the rest of our DPS be brought up to Powertech Pyrotech and Marauder DPS? Can the Devs really be that blind not to see that there is a huge gap? One simple look at a PvP results menu will show the DPS tops, and it is almost always one of those two classes. Another is to look at a Parser. Even in PvE these two classes rule the roost. In an Ops group, all Rakata, the numbers speak for themselves. To make it so bad, certain specs wont get a boat space for an Ops group if you are not one of those. I play a PT pyro, I am cool with a Nerf or Bumping up Sorc/Sage's... Does that mean I get a couple of self heals also? Oh and the Purple/Clear bubble... oh and Force speed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Never_Hesitate Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 I play a PT pyro, I am cool with a Nerf or Bumping up Sorc/Sage's... Does that mean I get a couple of self heals also? Oh and the Purple/Clear bubble... oh and Force speed? Yes, but you can only have the light armor of a sorc and please give your def cd's to the guy in black there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skendra Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 (edited) DPS increas to my guardian? yes pls There's no need to show my gear, right? Edited July 5, 2012 by Skendra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Never_Hesitate Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 (edited) DPS increase to my focus guardian? yes pls There's no need to show my gear, right? As long as you go naked there isn't. And you will have to hand in your smash. Edited July 5, 2012 by Never_Hesitate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasted_Coconuts Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Yes, but you can only have the light armor of a sorc and please give your def cd's to the guy in black there. Oh man, the guy in black always gets his cut. I also want a knock back, and a personal shield that prevents frogs from leaping to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Never_Hesitate Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Oh man, the guy in black always gets his cut. I also want a knock back, and a personal shield that prevents frogs from leaping to me. That shield is the sage healer, as long as you have him with you, you will never getting jumped at. And you already have a knock back. Just take this grapple you can use only on your teammates, so you can grapple the sage back if he doesn't want to be your personal shield anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasted_Coconuts Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 That shield is the sage healer, as long as you have him with you, you will never getting jumped at. And you already have a knock back. Just take this grapple you can use only on your teammates, so you can grapple the sage back if he doesn't want to be your personal shield anymore. So what your saying is that classes compliment each other... huh You are wise beyond the millennia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brool Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 this community cracfs me up. I seek out sent/mara's on my slinger and enjoy absolutely crushing them. Someone made the point the other day, and it was spot on. No real big changes have been made to the overall class since illum was sacked. When pvp was alive on illum, sents/mara's complained about how supremely underpowered and useless they were. Out there ranged classes ruled the roost because of the wide open spaces. Now were stuck in close range pvp matches and sents/maras are "ruling" the roost. I usually refrain from the l2p, but seriously you guys need to learn how to counter them instead of trying to get them nerfed. Guess what, after they nerf them and you're class becomes "op" you're next in line for the nerf. rinse and repeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baarabas Posted July 5, 2012 Author Share Posted July 5, 2012 Its the players job to enjoy the challenge. Its the Devs job to employ balance. You dont have to be Stephen Hawkings to read the PvP chart and a Parser to know who has the favor. When particular classes are being over looked in raids, the devs need to fix it. When a War Hero geared player can get spanked by a Battlemaster marauder there is an inbalance. I didnt call for nerf, I am calling for the bottom 5 or so to be brought up to level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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