To the careless fools using the Group Finder

[Ansalem]

have no problem with a dpser pulling if say the tank is being too slow and not pulling fast enough or if the tank is undergeared and the dpser is geared. Most trash pulls in heroics dont require an actual tank anyways.

[Siarris]

As a sorc DD i often find myself in situations when i'm an emergency offhealer - shielder, thus saving the party. Should i not do it?

[EternalChild]

have no problem with a dpser pulling if say the tank is being too slow and not pulling fast enough or if the tank is undergeared and the dpser is geared. Most trash pulls in heroics dont require an actual tank anyways.

Hmm i remember how DPS Mercenary with 22k health died from the first group in Black Talon... in 2 seconds! As an operative healer, i usually start this fight with Blinding Flash followed by Orbital Strike, then evasion and some healing. But this 22k guy was already dead when i finished casting Orbital. So, dear DPS, don't underestimate trash, especially the dreaded first group in BT

Edited July 5, 2012 by EternalChild

[Hyde_v]

Different game, same DPS crap.

 

I am not surprised. It's kind of like the guy who insulted the entire group as soon as he showed up and then proceeded to do so individually until the group disbanded.

 

Again, not surprised. Humans have few redeeming qualities.

[patchew]

to be honest, this is what most players were screaming about before LFG was implimented.

there had to be a check on spec before you could select a certain role. 95% of the time (1 instance in about 20) i have had an actual tank specced char perform as tank.

the rest of the time its been a dps playing healer (didnt end well) and dps performing as tanks (because EA have made dps/tank roles fairly interchangeable until 50 ... this is going to continue to happen) ... its a pain to do.

healing a tank is grand, healing a dps as tank is a pain ... especially when they whinge the boss hits them too hard.

jeebus, i just want to reach through the screen and strangle em.

 

there should be checks on spec before selecting roles (ive no problem with not having gear checks, once the abilitys are there) and there should be a wider gap between dps and tanking damage sustained. i know why they made dps and tanks so intermingled (to stop the mad queue times if youre dps, i presume) but its a complete pain having to heal dps as tanks in normal mode.

leveling as a tank is just as easy as dps, so theres no issue with roling a tank for leveling .. a lesson wow learned only recently.

 

as for the op, well some people are just sad. let em die, everyone will vote to kick em and then you can continue in peace and put em on ignore so youll never party again.

[TheronFett]

I've had very good luck with the group finder thus far. *knocks on wood*

 

Considering these are all PUGs, you never know what you're going to get, and can be a recipe for disaster. My last use of the group finder was for Story Mode EV, and we did it all in one shot. Hard to really complain about that.

[FalcoLombardi]

I don't run into to Tanks that over aggro, or bad Healers/DPS. I run into Tanks who only get one maybe two foes to fight them, unless I am on my Tank.

 

Though it could be considered I'm always on a Tank because I've had to "Tank" a bit on my Lethality Operative

[SentinelDranoel]

Its a weaksauce GF imo... I would much rather be able to place an LFM on a group finder detailing the content I am looking to run, the classes I am seeking for group, the lvl range (if not endgame content) and be able to see who is applying and if necessary inspect them before I ACCEPT or DECLINE.. but thats just me.

 

I agree accept for the fact they can not do this at the moment. It easy to get battlemaster, columni can take a little while if you do not win every roll for gear. Black Hole is not difficult to get but it will take awhile. The only post 50 gear that is simple to get is Tionese, and that is as useless as recruit armor. You can get geared up if your guild carries you, but who likes to be carried honestly. Some gamers need to do it for themselves.

 

I don't think we should start limiting people to join HM FPs because they are not even that hard. All you need is one person who has done it before to inform the rest of the group. DFO has the features you mentioned and no one even bothers to check the other player in that game really. You play first together, if the team is not working you quit group after it ends. I think it is that simple.

[Havard]

Don't be an *** about it.

This. In general, always this.

 

If someone's not doing things the "right" way - tell them, and they may listen to good advice. Rage-quitting a group without saying anything certainly isn't the way to help.

[kitsinni]

Maybe it is just me but everytime I enter one and see a Mara I am just waiting for them to leap right in to a group before the tank pulls. Sadly it seems to happen more often than not.

[TUXs]

As the tank I simply tell the healer if he wants me to slow down to tell me. I typically check peoples resource and health levels before I pull a large group. I do like to keep the train moving though. Also don't care for whiny healers who can't heal very good and blame everyone else for it. A good healer can handle some bad pulls but a bad healer cannot adjust.

 

But I do agree with DPSers staying behind the tank and letting him grab aggro first. I get less heals when they do that because the healer is trying to keep them alive instead of me. If they jump out in front of me too many times I stop tanking and wipe them.

 

Well said sir!

[KitePolaris]

I don't mind if people are new, bad, or undergeared. It honestly doesn't bother me as a healer, I can usually carry people at this point in the game if they are inexperienced. However, speaking on behalf of a few healers, it's not inexperience that's the issue-- it's people who don't speak up when they've never done something. I don't know why it's so humiliating for some people to just say, "Hey, I've never been here, so just let me know what to do." Then, you get descriptions at a boss and all goes well.

 

But people have all this pride they need to preserve and more often than not, it turns a 30 minute instance into a 60 minute one. For example, I was running a Dungeon Finder D7 HM and the tank had never been there. He spoke up. We explained the fights before each boss and there was not one wipe on any of them. On the flipside, I did a HM FE and two of the people in the group never did it. They tried to hit the tank with HK's missiles, didn't interrupt Malgus, and one even died when Malgus was soloing him. All of that would not have happened if they just spoke up.

 

I refuse to pug KP or EV SM. I just queue with guildies and use the tool for BH comms.

 

Now, another issue is people queuing for roles they actually aren't. If you have 12k health and are in ****** DPS gear, don't queue as tank. It's to a point that I don't even try to waste my time with people like this. If I see someone in the wrong role, recruit gear, or level 48 blues and greens, I'm leaving. You only waste everyone else's time by not doing dailies and gearing through SM versions of FPs.

[Mardalador]

If there is anything to be learned from this, it's that everyone that plays a DPS is an idiot, and everyone that plays a tank is an idiot, and the only people who know how to play the game are the people that chose to unlock a healing AC with their first character.

 

Thank you for shedding light on this topic, as we all now know that the only people that cause problems in groups are specifically people other than you, and now we can punish them accordingly.

 

Please, don't thank us. Thank you, you flashpoint hero, paragon of the hard mode. Thank you.

 

God this made me laugh so hard. But seriously, I really wish a lot of people in the game would have some sense and actually do what they're supposed to with they're combat roles.

[NinjaApacHe]

Do what I often do, vote to kick em from the group.

[SleepyJoeFriday]

I think everyone comes up against this.

Tank or DPS running off and getting agro before people have healed up, healers refreshed or even you've used the lift that everyone is passing through!

Occasionally the same players expect you as the lone healer to keep them alive through their bad play. Typically they'll agro too large a group, break your CC and have poor situational awareness - letting you be stomped whilst they concentrate on one foe.

It happens in many groups as people learn how to behave so I take it as a given that people will mess up and let them get on with it.

What I don't like though is when they continue to repeat the same mistakes even after you tell them.

Case in point for me was as a lvl 25 Sage being asked to CC two bosses simultaneously during a 4 boss fight. As I only had the one CC ability at that level I told them there was no way I could do that, but they still rage quit when they died.

[The_Butler]

Ahhh people do love to complain about other people

 

So not wishing to buck the trend I would really wish that Tanks wouldn't stand around seemingly waiting for the DPS or Healer to pull for them.

 

If our health bars are full and your not moving then I will probably pull for you because 1) I'm not going to die quicky and 2) it will force you into action!

 

But in all honesty I've had really good experiences in the Group Finder. But then I use it expecting the worst and quite prepared to help others through it. If you want an elite team on a speed run then surely that's what Guild runs are for? Bit much to expect an elite team from a GF Pug.

[Dademoor]

Ahhh people do love to complain about other people

 

So not wishing to buck the trend I would really wish that Tanks wouldn't stand around seemingly waiting for the DPS or Healer to pull for them.

 

If our health bars are full and your not moving then I will probably pull for you because 1) I'm not going to die quicky and 2) it will force you into action!

 

But in all honesty I've had really good experiences in the Group Finder. But then I use it expecting the worst and quite prepared to help others through it. If you want an elite team on a speed run then surely that's what Guild runs are for? Bit much to expect an elite team from a GF Pug.

 

No dought there are some rather ignorant players out there, including tanks, but I have to comment on 1 thing you stated:

 

If our health bars are full and your not moving then I will probably pull for you because 1) I'm not going to die quicky and 2) it will force you into action!

 

I am sure you are a compentant enough player to realize when a tank is standing around for a good reason, and when they are just picking their nose while alt-tabbed watching ****. There have been several occasions in the past that I have been standing at the forefront of the group and watch some DPSer run past me and pull. If your not a tank you rarely know what to look for.

 

• Healer Resources
  
• Patrols
  
• Threat Cooldowns (if only a few seconds)
  
• Defensive Cooldowns (again .. if only a few seconds)
  
• CC (I cooridnate with my wife out of game who I want her to CC and sometimes group members assume I am just being slow even though I make it clear at the beginning what is going to happen)
  

 

So please keep in mind that even though you may think the tank is just being an idiot, or lazy does not mean that is *always* the case.

[Ilysanth]

No dought there are some rather ignorant players out there, including tanks, but I have to comment on 1 thing you stated:

 

 

 

I am sure you are a compentant enough player to realize when a tank is standing around for a good reason, and when they are just picking their nose while alt-tabbed watching ****. There have been several occasions in the past that I have been standing at the forefront of the group and watch some DPSer run past me and pull. If your not a tank you rarely know what to look for.

 

• Healer Resources
  
• Patrols
  
• Threat Cooldowns (if only a few seconds)
  
• Defensive Cooldowns (again .. if only a few seconds)
  
• CC (I cooridnate with my wife out of game who I want her to CC and sometimes group members assume I am just being slow even though I make it clear at the beginning what is going to happen)
  

 

So please keep in mind that even though you may think the tank is just being an idiot, or lazy does not mean that is *always* the case.

 

^This.

[Tygranir]

I am nearly alwaysn a tank, and I go by the rule "you pull it, you tank it." I will move when I'm ready, and if you pull mobs before I am ready, good luck with them.

 

I always tell those "gogogo" groups "If I'm not going fast enough, feel free to get back in queue and wait for a new tank".

[smellmop]

If it has already been agreed upon by the group that the flashpoint is a "speed run" then I as a dps will pull trash mobs for the tank if he/she is not doing their job. If it isn't a speed run then I will wait always for tank (doesn't mean I won't spam in chat "Going on your lead tank!".

If the tables were turned would it be acceptable for the dps role on the team to stand there doing nothing?

I guess in the end communication is paramount...if a player needs a second just type it in for pete's sake...otherwise you are probably going to get a message from me saying "pulling in 3" lol.

 

I have actually seen more often the following from bad tanks:

 

Stand around with "saber" in hand infront of trash for 2 minutes....get to boss and then immediately pull while I'm asking in chat if everyone has done this fight and if so what strat the team is going to use.

[smellmop]

also to all the good tanks out there --- Hasen loves you!

If I get in a group and the tank actually holds threat because he has his taunts in his rotation, I get all warm and tingly. If he/she knows how to aoe threat to gather mobs for a xs flyby....omg I may just hit them up with some stims or credits lol. If the tank understands weak mobs are weak and can run around and collect them all for easy aoe....praise to the force!

If they can actually interrupt incinerate on the robot on lost island so I can actually use speed shot, aim shot, and charged burst on that fight consistently, then you have found a great tank.

[Rafaman]

No dought there are some rather ignorant players out there, including tanks, but I have to comment on 1 thing you stated:

 

 

 

I am sure you are a compentant enough player to realize when a tank is standing around for a good reason, and when they are just picking their nose while alt-tabbed watching ****. There have been several occasions in the past that I have been standing at the forefront of the group and watch some DPSer run past me and pull. If your not a tank you rarely know what to look for.

 

• Healer Resources
  
• Patrols
  
• Threat Cooldowns (if only a few seconds)
  
• Defensive Cooldowns (again .. if only a few seconds)
  
• CC (I cooridnate with my wife out of game who I want her to CC and sometimes group members assume I am just being slow even though I make it clear at the beginning what is going to happen)
  

 

So please keep in mind that even though you may think the tank is just being an idiot, or lazy does not mean that is *always* the case.

 

This is so on point I will requote it again.

 

The Tank, slow or not, is the lead. When he is ready you move on. That's all there is to it. I recently played with a DPS who was very experienced and over geared and consequently did not feel he had to wait for the group. It's all grins and giggles until we started to wipe. He tried to pass the buck but was quickly shot down. After a bit of a tantrum he finally held back we managed to finish. He did sneak in a snarky comment before he ungrouped. Ah... can't wait to run in to him again actually. I'm not a tank but I will be very clear up front on who will be running that group.

[Skidrowbro]

It is not your group when using the LFG tool

[Socialist]

Not uncommon, it's mostly people that strictly play one role that tend to believe that their role is less rewarding and more difficult than that of others and are also the most vocal about belittling the other roles and exaggerating the effort required to do their own job.

 

I am completely unsurprised by that.

 

I never said that.

 

But since I already said that in an almost excusing post and you just quoted a small part of it and made up stuff over it, I'll assume you are just a cheap troll

[Khamil]

I think its important to realize what the groupfinder tool is and is not. Its not a advanced gearscore checking utility setting up your dreamgroup.

Its a limited tool designed to keep a majority of the players happy and/or busy because they get groups, loot and as further incentive for use it gives 5 blackhole coms every day.

The nature of the beast is, the incentive is good and without having the data I assume a majority of people at levelcap use it to get hm fps groups for their needs on loot, bh coms and so forth.

The ease of use and the accessibility ensures you get people of every level of skill and gear, and it is something we just have to deal with. Preferably with patience where necessary, and at least courtesy. Not everyone is a star on their character/role at first so its quite useful to keep in mind that its smart to be communicative, check if people have done the flashpoint in question, and if there is doubt, fill in tactics etc so the run is as smooth as possible. And as someone before pointed out, its not wasted to teach someone new to hm fps a new thing or two if you can, because that makes them better teammates later on.

 

Things I would like the tool to do is pop up a quiz box once flashpoint is selected, asking players if they have done the fps before, and have the result popped up before start. Like, never - couple times - often. It would give a fairly good idea where people is in regards to the tactics, and promote communication where there might otherwise be little of it. Nothing annoys me more than the silent group where everyone assumes the others know what they are doing, its not always true and one wipe later you sit there, knowing its your collective fault you wiped.

 

For the tier2 LI.. Id sort of wish there was a min equip level to enter the queue. Queuing up and get a group where the people arent geared for the fps and as a consequence fails is rather sad.

 

Lastly, on dps pulling over the tank and other shenanigans. Realize that the tank queue is 1 second. DPS queue is 20-30 minutes. You are not unique, you are easily replacable, so mind your behaviour. Seriously