Recruit vs. War Hero

[islander]

It actually can take longer then 2 weeks for BM gear if you are a solo queuer because of all the really, really bads.

 

Still, this guy's point is well taken. It won't take longer then 3 weeks. I'm doing it on this character (sorry, its Afto) from scratch, and just starting my 3rd week calendar wise.

Playing about 2-3 hours a night, finishing my daily/weekly easily. I'm about 3000 warzone tokens from literally full BM. I'll be done in 4, maybe 5 days.

 

This is totally solo queueing. You'll work faster if you pre-queue with friends who aren't terrible at PvP. Especially if you are Republic

Edited July 2, 2012 by islander

[PloGreen]

There really isn't a solution in this aspect. Time will fix this.

I just was pointing out the reality of the situation. It's not just people sitting out/unsubbing then coming back and QQing.

 

We couldn't even get a 10-49 to queue after a while. It was just...pathetic.

 

Fair play if things were this bad, but I will say that those who choose to quit because they dont think the game is worth their money at the time, should not complain about people that did. Thats kind of "sour grapes" really.

[islander]

Fair play if things were this bad, but I will say that those who choose to quit because they dont think the game is worth their money at the time, should not complain about people that did. Thats kind of "sour grapes" really.

 

and see here, you'll get no argument from me on.

 

before my guild died, we were PvPing in the 50's, and when those queues died, we noticed 10-49s were still busy so we rolled alts. We're not hardcore by any stretch, but still PvP centric.

Eventually, about (I guess) now 7-8 weeks ago, those queues died too, and with it, sadly, my guild.

Edited July 2, 2012 by islander

[PloGreen]

and see here, you'll get no argument from me on.

 

before my guild died, we were PvPing in the 50's, and when those queues died, we noticed 10-49s were still busy so we rolled alts. We're not hardcore by any stretch, but still PvP centric.

Eventually, about (I guess) now 7-8 weeks ago, those queues died too, and with it, sadly, my guild.

 

But you moved to fatman and things are better tho?

 

I hear thats a good server (im from european).

[randalthorr]

Im not making a point for or against the gear as it stands, but its pretty easy to get geared and not get facerolled in a pvp match at 50. Start saving comms from 40, assuming you are a keen pvp'er and have been doing it all along as you level up. By the time you hit 50, you should have enough to get the recruit set for free, use the 2000 regular comms to get a chest or whatever, depending on how many ranked comms you managed to save since 40 and then get the WH of that immediately. Within a week or two, considering you do your pvp dailies, you should have almost all the main BM gear pieces. As soon as you have these, augment them. YES its a money sink, YES it sucks, but us pvp'ers dont spend any money on repairs and stuff, so we can afford to do this more than the constant repair bills associated with pve.

 

Now you should be competitive. At this point, better gear is a slight advantage and anything beyond that is l2p, when you go aginst players who are on their mains and have had the practice and patience to perfect their rotations and get really comfortable with their class.

[Rogoo]

I read it sure I've been through it same with every other person sporting wh

In fact I've been through it twice as I have 2 50"s

You just want a free ride

 

I don't want a "free ride". I want COMPETETIVE and SKILL BASED PvP.

 

So hard to grasp ?

[Keblitis]

I don't want a "free ride". I want COMPETETIVE and SKILL BASED PvP.

 

So hard to grasp ?

 

I find that my team of full WH geared peeps playing against another team of full WH geared people is pretty competitive.

[Ashanor]

So I'm pretty new to PvP. Did alright in sub 50 Bracket and pretty well when my sage hit 50 the week before 1.2 hit then bought my Recruit gear and did alright, got sick of PvPing on my Sage and started rolling a Guardian. Again did pretty well in sub 50 and got face stomped soon as I hit 50 in my Recruit. I'm now in mostly BM for both of them but its not a fun ride and I'm not looking forward to hitting WH, to the point that I probably won't bother past relics for my Guardian.

 

Anyway so the point to all that is that in the sub 50 bracket where gear isn't as important, PvP was much more fun. Now I understand the need for PvP specific gear so that PvPers don't need to raid and raiders don't get annoyed that their shiny Campaign gear can be gotten from PvP. I also understand that gear is important in SWToR because it is the only way you can customise your stats. But the difference between WH and Recruit is huge and it makes a massive barrier to entry for new PvPers.

 

Getting roflstomped in Recruit is NOT fun. I don't care if you did it to get your BM/WH and think that everyone should suffer through it too. Its MMO hazing and nothing more. And with all the complaining about WZ queues taking forever to pop before the server merges I would think that anything that gets people into PvP would have been welcomed. With the threads I'm seeing about Ranked WZ not popping quick enough I would think that getting people into it is good, even if its just to give you awesome PvPers out there more cannon fodder.

 

Fighting someone 1 tier up isn't too bad, but fighting someone 2 tiers up is difficult and feels like hitting a brick wall while getting hit by a train.

 

Solution: Reduce the difference in gear tiers and reduce the barrier to entry in PvP.

 

To anyone who says I'm butt hurt about getting beaten or that I just need to L2P or that the gear isn't that different. I challenge you to go into a WZ in Recruit gear and tell me honestly that its not much harder then using your WH gear. I won't ask you to go ranked WZ because I respect your ranking is important to you, but if you're willing to risk it and do RWZ in Recruit, then sir, I salute you.

 

TL;DR Gear is making a barrier to entry for new PvPers. Gear is important but the difference is too big. If you disagree: man up and go back to Recruit for a while to prove me wrong.

 

I agree, and the importance of PvP gear in this game is the main reason I will head for GW2 when it releases. My solution of course would be stat caps in PvP, so everyone has the same stats. The solution more likely would be upping recruit gear to 134.

Edited July 4, 2012 by Notannos
quote 'use of the word retarded'

[Daikeru]

I don't want a "free ride". I want COMPETETIVE and SKILL BASED PvP.

 

So hard to grasp ?

 

We got it. What about "Go play another game who's PvP system works to your liking" so hard to grasp?

[Ashanor]

We got it. What about "Go play another game who's PvP system works to your liking" so hard to grasp?

 

You are going to regret those words come August 28th. lol

Edited July 2, 2012 by Ashanor

[Jorojus]

I can be wrong as this is my first MMO, but isn't the gear grinding one of the little tricks that every MMo uses to keep players in the game? I mean, we are all like little children, if someone has something better or more shiny we want to get it too so they keep giving us what we want right

 

Cause some people with fully augmented wh gear are now like saying, there is nothing to do on that character so I am playing on this alt now.

 

On another note, everyone that is fresh level 50 had there last 5-10 levels fun beating up lower level guys in warzones with a much more broader range of abilities, so whats up with that ?

 

No pain no gain I'd say.

[Entropicus]

I did that in mostly recruit gear, BM light saber, Rakata stim.adrenal and med pack

http://postimage.org/image/5rspxz1o3/

In this game in my team I outdpsed many full war hero players and also outhealed healers on my marauder, 77484 healing done on marauder is great number, 92 kills and only 5 deaths.

 

This game is not very gear dependent like others, skill and teamplay matters. If one team can focus fire by several dps one target popping buffs at the same time it will bring huge burst and melt opposing team regardless of gear. Gear matters in duels and the two team has both great teamplay.

 

Not really sayin much as OP as everyone thinks Mauraders are.

[Rogoo]

No Sir....we want a fun ride. Not just the one on the way there but also the one once we got there. Not only is the lvl 50 bracket not balanced.....it's also not fun. It's laggy, unresponsive as hell, and feels like playing football in the mud. 10-49 was a LOT more fun than 50.

I also have two 50's. So what? The road from Recruit to WH is not a fun experience. 10-49 is. Period. Hell my lvl 50 Assassin has been shelved for 2 months now due to lvl 50 simply not being as fun to play in. It's more fun to re-roll alts and run them through 10-49.

I am not interested in a gear grind. I don't want that kind of maintenance in my game. Then level caps go up, then more gear again, blah, blah, blah.....No Thanks!

 

Precisely. I did exactly the same. I shelved my 50 shadow, leveled a Gunslinger to 50, mostly through PvP, and it was a blast. Now that I dinged 50 and I'm getting 4-shotted by Operatives, I'm thinking abour re-rolling again.

 

The gear grind puts true PvPers of the 50 bracket.

 

And rated WZs ? Could not care less, good luck competing there.

[InariOkami]

Personally, I loved the gear grind. It gave me something to work for while going through the fun but very repetitive warzones. Players like to have that sense of achievement. The grind as of 1.3 has been so simplified it takes prpobably 3 weeks to get full augmented war hero from hitting 50. Recruit gear is a major step up from pre 1.2. Try imagining going into a warzone as a fresh 50 with all questing greens and 2 hard earned pieces of centurion gear. You make it sound as if everyone you go against in every warzone has full augmented war hero and you're stuck in full recruit. A good player will perform well, recruit gear or not. The BM grind is a joke anyways...and the difference between BM and War Hero is pretty small. If you're getting stomped in full bm constantly, the problem lies between the chair and the screen. It's funny that people are saying the 10-49 grind is so balanced...go watch a 1v1 in a warzone between a level 49 marauder and anyone sub-20 and tell me that's balanced. This complaining about gear grind is going to continue until bioware gives everyone free augmented war hero at level 50. Edited July 2, 2012 by InariOkami

[Ryvirath]

Actually, that's a common misconception. Gear is just as important in the lowbie bracket, but nobody bothers with it. If you ding 40, buy all the pvp gear and augment it or just have all purples for your level you will be pushing 1400 main stat and 14500 health (non-tank). Comparatively, most people in WZs I see have around 1050 main stat and 12000 health. You'd actually get worse stats as you level though, which is why nobody would bother with it.

[Y-Yorle]

I think the point the OP is trying to make is more along the lines of wanting to be beaten by someone with better skills, not a better car. I don't think the OP is disregarding all the effort people have gone through to get the WH gear with full augments at all. But what he actually is saying is that currently the difference in gear is like comparing racing on a scooter against a fully fledged Ferrari sports car , if you'll forgive me the exaggeration.

 

My personal experience regarding this *ahum* problem is from fighting on my BM geared shadow against my equally skilled and long time friend also as a shadow in the exact same spec, but with WH augmented gear. Every single time he just came out on top with about 2k-5k HP left even if I did not make a single mistake in my attacks and I managed to surprise him. Then we both switched to the same recruit gear and tried out the combat, and it basically turned into a victory for the person who was able to throw the first punch. xD

 

Anyway, the reality of this game is in order to be competitive you need to have the WH gear. That is a choice BW made and there is little to do about it but accept it. However, the point the OP is trying to make I think (and to which I can agree to), is that people get 'burned out' on the gear grind (talking mainly BM to WH+augments here) before being able to reach the really competitive scene. I applaud the people who were able to endure this period of being less to not competitive, especially back in the old days where you had to rely on RNG for your PvP gear (bloody champ/BM comms! >.<)

 

However, I think I speak for all PvP'ers when I say the best games played are the ones where you truly are competitive, no? The games where you can truly say 'good game', not only to yourself and your team, but to your opponents as well. Why is it so bad for some of the responders in this thread that the OP wishes to have these kinds of games - is this not what we all want in the end?

 

Therefor I suggest we move to point of focus in this thread towards finding a solution to the 'lesser' period of grinding, which BW most likely only implemented to increase subscription time and is rather old school solution to said increase of subscription time anyway. Let's move away from insulting each other because we take things a bit too personal because of some unwritten part of this game having become part of our personal identity (read: things currently present in this game not being agreed upon being taken as a personal insult). No more "people who use 'earn' just want to outgear, not outskill others" and no more "Go play GW2 if you want a free ride". We're all on the same side, and we all want to have fun in the end. So let's realise that this an aspect we all have in common and is the most important one to have in common to begin with.

[L-RANDLE]

The truly "competitive" people don't give two flyin about what disadvantage they have. They are balls to the walls 100% of the time in anything they want to be competitive at. They also will do whatever it takes to get eliminate any perceived disadvantage. Should disadvantages exist in PvP? IDK, but that is what BW put in front of us, so if I really want to see if I am "skilled", I need to gear up. Bolster hid a ton of flaws in my PvP game, and they were exploited when I moved to the next bracket.

 

Gear is a biproduct of a players PvP time, but matters little in the grand scheme of objective based PvP. Once people start to understand this they will see that it not even about the gear. It is about personal commitment, in this case, to this game. You don't have enough if you complain about gear. The sad part about all the QQ is "enough" is LOL small compared to pre-1.1.5 and most RPG's in general from the gear perspective. You know the ground rules of the game, so saying the gear needs to be changed boils down to "gimmie, gimmie", and/or "L2P issues".

[netskink]

Ive said a million times you don't need recruit if you have some good pve gear. Either way you are going to die.

 

And I really do get tired of people dumping on those without recruit gear. If see an opponent with very little health, I simply mark them with a target and say "guys marked with gun and fire are sub 15K hp, time to get your crits". I would be saddened to see them go. Especially on my WH operative with 1.3K expertise and 19.2K hp.

[PloGreen]

I think the point the OP is trying to make is more along the lines of wanting to be beaten by someone with better skills, not a better car. I don't think the OP is disregarding all the effort people have gone through to get the WH gear with full augments at all. But what he actually is saying is that currently the difference in gear is like comparing racing on a scooter against a fully fledged Ferrari sports car , if you'll forgive me the exaggeration.

 

My personal experience regarding this *ahum* problem is from fighting on my BM geared shadow against my equally skilled and long time friend also as a shadow in the exact same spec, but with WH augmented gear. Every single time he just came out on top with about 2k-5k HP left even if I did not make a single mistake in my attacks and I managed to surprise him. Then we both switched to the same recruit gear and tried out the combat, and it basically turned into a victory for the person who was able to throw the first punch. xD

 

Anyway, the reality of this game is in order to be competitive you need to have the WH gear. That is a choice BW made and there is little to do about it but accept it. However, the point the OP is trying to make I think (and to which I can agree to), is that people get 'burned out' on the gear grind (talking mainly BM to WH+augments here) before being able to reach the really competitive scene. I applaud the people who were able to endure this period of being less to not competitive, especially back in the old days where you had to rely on RNG for your PvP gear (bloody champ/BM comms! >.<)

 

However, I think I speak for all PvP'ers when I say the best games played are the ones where you truly are competitive, no? The games where you can truly say 'good game', not only to yourself and your team, but to your opponents as well. Why is it so bad for some of the responders in this thread that the OP wishes to have these kinds of games - is this not what we all want in the end?

 

Therefor I suggest we move to point of focus in this thread towards finding a solution to the 'lesser' period of grinding, which BW most likely only implemented to increase subscription time and is rather old school solution to said increase of subscription time anyway. Let's move away from insulting each other because we take things a bit too personal because of some unwritten part of this game having become part of our personal identity (read: things currently present in this game not being agreed upon being taken as a personal insult). No more "people who use 'earn' just want to outgear, not outskill others" and no more "Go play GW2 if you want a free ride". We're all on the same side, and we all want to have fun in the end. So let's realise that this an aspect we all have in common and is the most important one to have in common to begin with.

 

Then I suggest the op grinds out full augmented war hero like everyone else - get the same "car" that they did. In top rated pvp at higher ratings you will meet people in very decent cars that know how to tune their engines and drive them very well.

 

The solution is not to point at other people and say "thats not fair, I want what they have or i cant compete" - its to basically go "iam going to put the time in to get what they have and show them I can compete when ive got it". The problem is some of you want to do that now and that is just ridiculous. The whole concept of mmo is gear progression in all its style of plays.

 

"gw2 doesnt etc etc".

 

You people need to accept the game for what it is, just like any sport if you want to perform well you have to work at it, and this game is no different except that the effort required is minimal in comparison to alot of mmos.

 

I have levelled multiple alts and the transition from fresh 50 to competitive pvper does not take long at all, and if your any good you wont be claiming that the gear difference is holding you back since the rateds dont lock you out of getting better gear - its the same on ranked and unranked statwise..

[Marqhill]

Another point of "Grinding Gear" is that as you're playing the war zones that it takes to get your gear then you're going to find yourself becoming a much more skilled and nuanced player. I'm new to MMO's and honestly I sucked when I first started playing. But as I began to play to earn my PvP gear I learned more about how the game works and more about the advantages and disadvantages that my class has in PvP War Zones. I went from feeling like my class was an underperforming class in war zones to feeling incredibly powerful as I progressed in gear. So as I was getting better gear I was becoming a better player. At my current level of skill I would say that I'm an excellent player. A lot of that comes from playing at a little bit of a disadvantage in gear for a while and really learning my class. This was primarily due to the amount of war zones I played in order to get my gear. If I was just handed a full set of the best Gear available from the outset then I don't know if I would have had the motivation to become as good as I currently am.

 

I know that the OP wasn't asking to get a full set of the best PvP gear as soon as you hit 50. But reducing the difference in quality between the gear is kind of a slipper slope I think. Where does it end? Because I guarantee you that if they changed the gear differentials there would still be a whole different set of complaints. The people who have the lower level gear would say that the difference is STILL too much between the levels of gear. additionally, God forbid that Bioware reduces the stats on the War Hero gear. At that point the entire game would implode and there would be a massive exodus of high end PvP'ers and it would absolutely kill ranked war zones before it begins. Either way, I personally think it's kind of a terrible idea. Considering that the Recruit Gear is already free, the Battle Master gear can be bought for Commendations and you no longer have to pay a 3 - 1 ratio for ranked war zone comms I think that making it any easier to get the gear seems unreasonable. Maybe make the war hero gear a little cheaper for ranked war zone comms. But that's about all I can really think of.

[Y-Yorle]

Then I suggest the op grinds out full augmented war hero like everyone else - get the same "car" that they did. In top rated pvp at higher ratings you will meet people in very decent cars that know how to tune their engines and drive them very well.

 

The solution is not to point at other people and say "thats not fair, I want what they have or i cant compete" - its to basically go "iam going to put the time in to get what they have and show them I can compete when ive got it". The problem is some of you want to do that now and that is just ridiculous. The whole concept of mmo is gear progression in all its style of plays.

 

"gw2 doesnt etc etc".

 

You people need to accept the game for what it is, just like any sport if you want to perform well you have to work at it, and this game is no different except that the effort required is minimal in comparison to alot of mmos.

 

I have levelled multiple alts and the transition from fresh 50 to competitive pvper does not take long at all, and if your any good you wont be claiming that the gear difference is holding you back since the rateds dont lock you out of getting better gear - its the same on ranked and unranked statwise..

 

That's basically what I was trying to say with the addition of me wanting to point out that people slowly seemed to regress into insulting each other or feeling insulted personally rather then staying on (civilized) topic. But I was also agreeing with the OP for pointing out this game can do with something that does requires me to work for it without feeling dull (aka: is fun).

 

As you say that is not how it is in this game, but I am certainly not feeling insulted like some on here seem to be for this being pointed out. The OP is not trying to insult or devalue the achievements of those that have worked for their gear, but he is being treated as such even though in the end both OP and responder want to have the same; namely a fun and fulfilling game experience through respectful competitiveness.

 

Now I know in this world banthoo poodoo happens and then you die, but I was kinda hoping we can all realize this is a game meant for fun we're talking about. If I want to have fulfillment from the road to accomplishing something, I'll pick something more intense like my rowing training or everything I am learning for my study of interdisciplinary social sciences because these two tend to be a bit more real life changing and identifying then a game I'm playing for fun.

 

Of course, I'm fairly sure what people consider 'fun' can differ vastly among us all with nothing being set in stone. Therefor I would like to say my personal definition should not be considered presented as fact and I'm not trying to insult anyone here. I would just like to point out to all in this thread to keep the unnecessary negativity out of this thread (when did it ever produce something good anyway?) and start responding from an understanding and positive point of view.

Edited July 2, 2012 by Y-Yorle

[Rogoo]

You people need to accept the game for what it is, just like any sport if you want to perform well you have to work at it, and this game is no different except that the effort required is minimal in comparison to alot of mmos.

 

When somebody puts the word "WORK" alongside the word "GAME", they are doing it wrong. o.O

[Merikolikotis]

Isnt it obvious that game should be skill based instead of gear grind. Ofc it is.

 

Also many other things are obvious like:

- that a game should work good on a video card that is top 10 on benchmarks

- that you shouldnt wait in queue for 45 minutes if the game is instanced

- when in forum you click reply and you log in you should be redirected to where you wanted to go and not to a home page

- when you update your windows they shouldnt just automaticly restart your computer without asking

 

Still we live in the world where wrong people make decisions and make other people suffer. So as the wise man in this thread said wait for 25.8. and enjoy.

Edited July 2, 2012 by Merikolikotis
have something to add

[Mozivicus]

I don't want a free ride, but i want to have fun in PVP which i can't have when i'm constantly stomped by wh geared people.

 

PVP in the sub 50 bracket is really fun.

 

Well I'm glad that you're having fun in the 10-49 bracket. When I was in the 10-49 bracket , I was getting rotflStomped by battlemasters. But at least you're having fun.

[Geglad]

Every time you write "earn" in the same sentence as describing pixels in a computer game a baby seal dies. Do you really want to be known as a baby seal slayer?

 

It is a bloody game, you should play it to have FUN not to EARN stuff.

 

 

This.