Really "Warzone Medpacks" Still in the game?

[Varicite]

Let's say for the sake of argument you just win every game you play whether at level 50 bracket or level 10-49 bracket.

 

In 10-49 bracket you win one game and your daily gets you 6 total adrenal+ medpack.

 

In the 50 bracket you win 3 games and get 100/100 which can be used to buy 20 total adrenal + medpacks.

 

So there's no advantage to buying those with playing an alt, unless you don't feel like playing on your main for whatever reason. Note that if you care about the gear, it's generally more useful to simply play another game on your main and get some comms toward your next WH piece than playing it on an alt and use the comms to buy WZ consumables. Obviously gear still matters more than consumables until you max out your gear.

 

Assuming you're at a point you care about gear you probably save your alt's comms toward that alt's gear anyway so you're only getting 6 consumables per day. That gets used up rather fast if you're actually using them. If you're one of those guys who have maxed ranked WZ comms on an alt, then clearly you could be spending those time on your main for the same amount of gear. The only reason you wouldn't do it is if you don't care about gear, which is usually because your main already has full WH.

 

Like I said, it's supposed to be a tradeoff. You're supposed to make a decision.

 

Faster gear, or slight potential to aid victory further.

 

Also, why on earth would you save your alt's comms for anything at all before lv40? There is literally nothing worth spending those comms on prior to lv40 other than the WZ Adrenals and Medpacs, especially if you are like me and have crafters to supply your own gearing needs.

 

Personally, I always stockpile medpacs from 20-40, and then 40-50 stockpile RWZ comms (post 1.2, obviously) and that is more than enough medpacs to last you WELL into your WH grind. No need to farm anything on an alt at all if you plan ahead even slightly. At this point, it's not even a decision to make, since you have plenty on hand.

 

Of course, for people gearing mains, it goes back to the former argument, and that you'll simply have to choose.

 

Exactly what is so bad about making decisions?

Edited June 29, 2012 by Varicite

[DimeStax]

I assume you were talking to me

This was your previous quote:

 

 

 

1)You specifically mentioned 1-49 not having anything to spare because they were purchasing ranked comms, so don't blame me if you can't read your own posts. In fact, my post also related to a previous post in regards to sending medpacks from alts while leveling them. The same post, in fact, that you were referencing with your comment. The point being, a lot of players level alts through PVP because they are tired of quests and have a lot of extra comms to spend.

 

2) I posted back on the first page or two so don't act like I just came in to troll you today.

 

3) Your points have nothing to do with the OP which was that warzone medpacks disrupt the strategy/skill of ranked warzones. You continue with your argument that they make an unfair advantage to people who can't afford to buy them and completely missed the original point. I understand if that's the way you feel (although I disagree), but that is a discussion for another thread.

 

Hmm, is the title of this thread, "Really "Warzone Medpacks" Still in the game?" I just double checked, yeah I thought so. My point is that Warzone Adrenals shouldn't be in the game. Just because I don't want them in the game for the same reasons as the OP doesn't mean my point belongs in an entirely different thread. I agreed with the OP's main premise that Warzone Medpacks shouldn't be in the game, however I support it because of different reasons than the OP does. My posts are still on topic, I just don't share the exact same opinion as the OP.

 

And yes, you caught my post before I edited it. I later edited out the part where I mention the 1-49 bracket because I realized it was irrelevant to my point which specifically focused on Ranked Warzones.

 

Varicite, If you're arguing that everyone is trained to use them and hence does or should use them simply because they are there, then even in a best case scenario the use of warzone adrenals just cancel each other out, however in a worst case scenario one player has a natural advantage over the other; so assuming everybody is using them like they should, why even have them?

Edited June 29, 2012 by DimeStax

[Astarica]

If everyone's supposed to be use WZ consumables they should just be called "Legacy WZ repair probe" or whatever and be something you buy once and then always have it.

[Varicite]

Varicite, If you're arguing that everyone is trained to use them and hence does or should use them simply because they are there, then even in a best case scenario the use of warzone adrenals just cancel each other out; so if everybody is using them like they should, why even have them?

 

My argument is that they have been a mechanic of the game since its inception and everyone is already trained to use them, so why take them out?

 

My other argument is that if YOUR argument is that your team can't kill somebody in the 90 second cooldown before they pop another Medpac, then you really have much, much larger problems than that Medpac.

 

I suppose my 3rd argument is that the change doesn't actually do what the OP intends, as he is complaining about Tanks and Healers having an unfair advantage WITH Medpacs in the game. I am arguing that Tanks and Healers have even MORE of an advantage once you remove them, since 2/3 of the tanks can heal themselves anyway on short cds, thus further widening the gap between a Tank's health pool and a DPS who can't self-heal. I hope I don't really need to explain the Healer's advantage...

 

Also, the purpose of the Medpacs and Adrenal only providing defense is to hopefully lengthen the TTK and provide more opportunity for counter-strategy in the metagame.

 

If everyone's supposed to be use WZ consumables they should just be called "Legacy WZ repair probe" or whatever and be something you buy once and then always have it.

 

Again, what is so terrible about having to make a decision in a RPG?

 

It's seriously 10 commendations for a Medpac. How many of these things are you spamming in a WZ that you can't afford a tradeoff that tiny? <.<

Edited June 29, 2012 by Varicite

[DarthRavillen]

Usually within 90 seconds either you or the enemy is dead and you're out of combat one way or another.

 

Yes you are, so why change the stats of that, I'll see here in this thread is people greifing that they are not killing someone because they pop a medpac. it's no different if I use a warzone med or Rak. Med Rak (heals 4.5K and gives you a 15% temp hitpoints) which is on nearly on par with the warzone one. I don't think removing warzone medpacs from the game should be done, they are there for a reason and that is to help you the player out. Not the player that is trying to kill you. It gives the same advance to both players, but it's a choice to have it or not.

 

Warzones in general are about working as a team to complete an objective, it's not about who is the best solostar out there. Medpacs are there to help the player out that helps their team out in return by defending a point longer, or attacking a point when your team needs it the most. If your blind to this, then I am just wasting my time here.

[DimeStax]

My argument is that they have been a mechanic of the game since its inception and everyone is already trained to use them, so why take them out?

 

My other argument is that if YOUR argument is that your team can't kill somebody in the 90 second cooldown before they pop another Medpac, then you really have much, much larger problems than that Medpac.

 

I suppose my 3rd argument is that the change doesn't actually do what the OP intends, as he is complaining about Tanks and Healers having an unfair advantage WITH Medpacs in the game. I am arguing that Tanks and Healers have even MORE of an advantage once you remove them, since 2/3 of the tanks can heal themselves anyway on short cds, thus further widening the gap between a Tank's health pool and a DPS who can't self-heal. I hope I don't really need to explain the Healer's advantage...

 

Also, the purpose of the Medpacs and Adrenal only providing defense is to hopefully lengthen the TTK and provide more opportunity for counter-strategy in the metagame.

 

 

 

Again, what is so terrible about having to make a decision in a RPG?

 

It's seriously 10 commendations for a Medpac. How many of these things are you spamming in a WZ that you can't afford a tradeoff that tiny? <.<

 

Please quote me where I made an argument that me or my team couldn't kill somebody in the 90 second window in between medpack reuses: I'll wait. You won't find one because that wasn't my argument at all. As I've said in three different posts now: my concern is about the gap that warzone adrenals lengthens between casual players and hardcore players who play in rnked warzones. If casual players want to compete seriously then they must purchase warzone adrenals at the expense of gearing themselves up more slowly while hardcore players suffer no expense because they already have gear and they have nothing else to spend coms on. If anything they should regulate how many warzone adrenals and cyber grenades that can be used in a ranked warzones per match so that even the guys with stacks of them have to choose precisely when they want to use them and not just pop them whenever they want because they have so many of them. My argument is on behalf of casual players in rnked warzones (even though I'm no one), it has nothing to do with me getting mad because someone pops a heal adrenal when I'm about to kill them.

[Varicite]

Please quote me where I made an argument that me or my team couldn't kill somebody in the 90 second window in between medpack reuses: I'll wait. You won't find one because that wasn't my argument at all.

 

This was the OP's complaint; that it was making it too hard to kill Healers and Tanks because Medpacs scale off of hp. You may have noticed my usage of the word "if", implying that IF you were agreeing w/ the OP, then that's a silly argument that would be remedied by talking to your team's DPS, not removing WZ medpacs. : P

 

IF this doesn't apply to you, then disregard it. Apologies for making the assumption that you were promoting the OP's argument.

 

As I've said in three different posts now: my concern is about the gap that warzone adrenals lengthens between casual players and hardcore players who play in rnked warzones. If casual players want to compete seriously then they must purchase warzone adrenals at the expense of gearing themselves up more slowly while hardcore players suffer no expense because they already have gear and they have nothing else to spend coms on.

 

Exactly. That's the choice we ALL make. Consumables or gear? There's nothing wrong w/ that. There is nothing barring the casual that did not bar the hardcore also. If it's really that big of a deal, then BUY your consumables w/ credits from people who don't have anything left to spend their comms on, like another poster suggested.

 

Complaining that you (not you personally) don't want to spend comms OR credits on consumables is just straight up greed, plain and simple. That train of thought is basically just asking for something for nothing, when BW obviously wants there to be some form of currency exchange for the ability to heal yourself. Again, a tradeoff.

 

There's nothing "separating" casual from hardcore here other than the casual's unwillingness to do what hardcores have already done.

 

As I've asked in 3 different posts now, what is so inherently terrible about having to make a decision in a RPG?

 

If anything they should regulate how many warzone adrenals and cyber grenades that can be used in a ranked warzones per match so that even the guys with stacks of them have to choose precisely when they want to use them and not just pop them whenever they want because they have so many of them. My argument is on behalf of casual players in rnked warzones (even though I'm no one), it has nothing to do with me getting mad because someone pops a heal adrenal when I'm about to kill them.

 

They did regulate this. Did you not notice the cooldown on both of those items you mentioned? Bioware put that there to let you know that they are cool w/ you using as many of those during the Warzone as the cooldown allows. If they feel it needs to be tweaked, I'm sure it will be, since this is still the Pre-Season (ie: RWZ beta) and they are keeping a close eye on exactly this sort of thing. Removing them completely seems unecessary, and honestly just screws over every class that doesn't self-heal.

 

Just as a FYI, the "limit" is 10 Medpacs per 15 minute WZ, and 5 Cybertech grenades per 15 minute WZ. That's basically the max that you can use (and is still less comms than you get for winning a match).

 

Ironically, the OP's class has 3 different forms of self-healing on top of Tank defenses (and he admittedly does wear Tanking gear), so not only would he have higher mitigation than any DPS trying to kill him, but he'd also be healing the damage that they do to him while dealing out comparable damage of his own.

 

And before you try to tell me that you can't do damage in Tank gear, I already know that to be a lie, as I have a Tankassin of my own who until recently rocked full Survivor and routinely won 1v2s through mitigation, healing, and decent damage.

 

But yes, I'm sure he is asking for this for everyone else's benefit...

Edited June 29, 2012 by Varicite

[DimeStax]

Exactly. That's the choice we ALL make. Consumables or gear? There's nothing wrong w/ that. There is nothing barring the casual that did not bar the hardcore also. If it's really that big of a deal, then BUY your consumables w/ credits from people who don't have anything left to spend their comms on, like another poster suggested.

 

This isn't a choice I make. Nor is it a choice that anyone else who is completely geared has to make either. The only choice we make is: Warzone Adrenals, or more Warzone Adrenals. I no longer have to make a sacrifice to gear up slower in order to buy Warzone Adrenals because I no longer need War Hero gear. This is the problem. While I accumulate stacks and stacks of Warzone Adrenals effortlessly as a hardcore player with comms I no longer need, my casual friends are struggling to complete their gear sets because they don't play often enough to afford both gear and Warzone Adrenals, so many just don't use them unless we make them. It's not that they don't want to be competitive, it's just that they want to finish their gear set so they are no longer out-geared. The problem is that by doing so, now they're being "out-potioned" in Ranked Warzones by teams of hardcore players like me. I guarantee you that unless you are in a hardcore guild, many of your teammates do the same thing and suffer the same disadvantage.

 

Using cash is the same thing. It still requires play time to build credits to buy warzone adrenals, and play-time is not something a casual player has a lot of. When they do play, they usually spend it doing something they want to do and not farming credits (unless that's what they want to do).

 

Complaining that you (not you personally) don't want to spend comms OR credits on consumables is just straight up greed, plain and simple. That train of thought is basically just asking for something for nothing, when BW obviously wants there to be some form of currency exchange for the ability to heal yourself. Again, a tradeoff.

 

There's nothing "separating" casual from hardcore here other than the casual's unwillingness to do what hardcores have already done.

 

I'm not complaining that I don't want to spend coms or credits on consumables, I'm saying that perhaps they shouldn't be in the game altogether. In an equal scenario in a 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, 4v4, etc. if all players in the fight have and use warzone adrenals, they basically cancel each other out and no advantage is gained or lost. The only time warzone adrenals actually become a factor in warzones is when players on one team are using them while some players on the other team are not. What's separating them is a gap of not only gear, but also possibly in the use of warzone adrenals and cyber tech grenades as well.

 

They did regulate this. Did you not notice the cooldown on both of those items you mentioned? Bioware put that there to let you know that they are cool w/ you using as many of those during the Warzone as the cooldown allows. If they feel it needs to be tweaked, I'm sure it will be, since this is still the Pre-Season (ie: RWZ beta) and they are keeping a close eye on exactly this sort of thing. Removing them completely seems unecessary, and honestly just screws over every class that doesn't self-heal.

 

Just as a FYI, the "limit" is 10 Medpacs per 15 minute WZ, and 5 Cybertech grenades per 15 minute WZ. That's basically the max that you can use (and is still less comms than you get for winning a match).

 

I'm not referring to how long the warzone adrenals last or how powerful they are. They are the same for every class so it's basically equal for any class who uses it. The OP mentions the fact that higher hitpoint players gain more from it, but that's irrelevant to my point.

 

Yes, there is currently a limit you can use in a warzone based on how long the warzone match lasts. That's an obvious observation. What I am proposing is leaving the cooldowns on the Wazone Adrenals at 1.5 minutes, however giving you some kind of debuff that only lets you use 3 of each a match, that way even the players with stacks of them are limited to how many they can use per Warzone, and they must use them with more consideration.

 

Taking out Warzone Adrenals doesn't screw over any class. If all things are equal and everybody in the warzone uses them, then even if the class who doesn't have a self heal uses a healing adrenal, it will only be canceled out when his opponent uses his as well. Assuming all classes are balanced, warzone adrenals simply cancel each other out. If you're saying classes without a self heal are not balanced with other classes and need a warzone adrenal in order to be balanced with them... well that's a different thread isn't it?

[Ahhmyface]

It's called an economy. Some players (typically the ones that should really get out of mmos altogether because they are just punishing themselves) want there to be no persistent component to the game. Economy, funds, resources, items, crafting skills, these are all things you can use, trade, or offer to get yourself some medpacks. And, you can pvp for them too. Your augments weren't free either. Neither was my reusable medpack.

 

Just because you jelly of their accumulated wealth doesn't mean you should change to game so everybody is as broke as you. It's fun to be wealthy, and it gives you something to strive for. Don't want to? Well maybe MMOs (or this mmo) aren't for you?

[Varicite]

I just don't agree that it's a problem at all that you are accumulating WZ adrenals and medpacs because you don't have to spend comms for gear. You already spent your comms on gear, and while it's not a choice for you now, it was a choice while you were gearing up (and you did not have the luxury of raking in RWZ comms from actual RWZs).

 

If you're such a good samaritan, why not fork over some of those stacks of medpacs and adrenals to your pauper "friends" whom cannot afford to spend ANY of their comms OR credits on consumables?

 

Like I said, I consider that just plain greedy to want something for nothing, or to just want everyone else to have nothing because you are literally unwilling to do anything to better your character other than what you deem is most "fun".

 

That's a tradeoff, also. Some players went out of their way to prepare, and are enjoying the benefits of their efforts. Casuals are not barred from these efforts, and all it takes is a bit of time. Time, I realize, that they may be unwilling to spend on such endeavors. Well, that's their prerogative, no?

 

In the really real world, ants don't feel any sympathy for grasshoppers. I don't either.

[vimm]

Hmm, didn't see you again after the first 5 minutes, figured you left.

 

 

That's against my religion.

[vimm]

Hello Vim,

 

We were doing pvp together in my vent this week. I asked if you were VIM as vi improved. You mentioned that you get that all the time.

 

John

 

I rememer; hello John.

[DimeStax]

I just don't agree that it's a problem at all that you are accumulating WZ adrenals and medpacs because you don't have to spend comms for gear. You already spent your comms on gear, and while it's not a choice for you now, it was a choice while you were gearing up (and you did not have the luxury of raking in RWZ comms from actual RWZs).

 

If you're such a good samaritan, why not fork over some of those stacks of medpacs and adrenals to your pauper "friends" whom cannot afford to spend ANY of their comms OR credits on consumables?

 

Like I said, I consider that just plain greedy to want something for nothing, or to just want everyone else to have nothing because you are literally unwilling to do anything to better your character other than what you deem is most "fun".

 

That's a tradeoff, also. Some players went out of their way to prepare, and are enjoying the benefits of their efforts. Casuals are not barred from these efforts, and all it takes is a bit of time. Time, I realize, that they may be unwilling to spend on such endeavors. Well, that's their prerogative, no?

 

In the really real world, ants don't feel any sympathy for grasshoppers. I don't either.

 

We don't agree then. It's not the first time and it probably won't be the last. You're entitled to your opinion. In my opinion you're ants and grasshoppers statement is a pretty elitist perspective, but that's just my opinion.

Edited June 29, 2012 by DimeStax

[vimm]

Grasshoppers are way more ballin' than ants. Have you seen their leap? It's amazing!

[Varicite]

We don't agree then. It's not the first time and it probably won't be the last. You're entitled to your opinion. In my opinion you're ants and grasshoppers statement is a pretty elitist perspective, but that's just my opinion.

 

We can agree to disagree. /shrug

 

I'm probably the least elitist person I know, as I am a casual who works full-time and is broke in-game all the time also. I'm just not unwilling to spend some comms on medpacs, or spend a little extra time to better myself when necessary. It all pays off in the end.

 

I guess it would boggle your mind to know that even though I only play a few hours a night on the weeknights, I've still managed to get all the datacrons and work on my crafting (while questing, etc) to the point where my fresh 50 will have full epic augments and slots, etc.

 

Buying some medpacs is like a bare minimum requirement (especially for RWZ, which by definition is the highest tier of competitive PvP this game has to offer), so I don't find it so "elitist" to expect people to do this, or at least not to complain about something they have absolute control over.

 

Grasshoppers are way more ballin' than ants. Have you seen their leap? It's amazing!

 

It's true. Grasshoppers do get all the fly honies. Prolly why they don't have time to farm medpacs.

Edited June 29, 2012 by Varicite

[funkiestj]

I could somehow agree with the cooldown being raised. However, I'm absolutely against their complete removal. I was also against the removal of usable items in WZs. There's less and less buttons one can press in this game, and it's not going to make it any more insteresting when being further dumbed down. I thought we all agreed at one point with BW when they smartened up the Mercs for example, let's stick to that idea.

 

Agreed. I'm suprised OP asks for medpac removals rather than simply asking for their cooldown to be lengthened.

[vimm]

We can agree to disagree. /shrug

 

I'm probably the least elitist person I know, as I am a casual who works full-time and is broke in-game all the time also. I'm just not unwilling to spend some comms on medpacs, or spend a little extra time to better myself when necessary. It all pays off in the end.

 

I guess it would boggle your mind to know that even though I only play a few hours a night on the weeknights, I've still managed to get all the datacrons and work on my crafting (while questing, etc) to the point where my fresh 50 will have full epic augments and slots, etc.

 

Buying some medpacs is like a bare minimum requirement (especially for RWZ, which by definition is the highest tier of competitive PvP this game has to offer), so I don't find it so "elitist" to expect people to do this, or at least not to complain about something they have absolute control over.

 

 

 

It's true. Grasshoppers do get all the fly honies. Prolly why they don't have time to farm medpacs.

 

Lmao.

[Draqsko]

Usually within 90 seconds either you or the enemy is dead and you're out of combat one way or another.

 

This is wrong.. Unless you bail out on the node, someone else will have targeted you in the mean time, making your WZ medpack still be greyed out. Heck even guarding a healer basically puts you into an aggro situation where the medpack cooldown won't reset because you never left aggro because someone is ALWAYS targeting a healer.

 

The only classes that can use this medpack (or any medpack for that matter) on cooldown are.. classes that can use vanish/escape/force camo/etc.. That means Shadows/Sins, Marauders/Sents, Scoundrels/Ops.. Everyone else that can't just pull themselves out of a fight with an ability is porked into using it ONCE PER FIGHT. And a fight usually lasts until either the entire other side is dead, you flee the scene running like a little b*tch (and trust me, being one that shifts nodes alot for defense, PVP aggro is well beyond 30 m and doesn't depend on LoS), or you are dead.

 

- 10 to OP and everyone else that agrees with him for not realizing or bothering to read the tooltip, AND not realizing that even 10k extra HP on a tank is only 3-4 GCDs of attacks (unless you ARE a tank in which case you benefit as much as the other guy), in 1 v 1 that's all of 6 seconds longer TTK

[Rebornlos]

REALLY?

 

Not one of you understands this...

 

God Bless these forums!

 

I completely understand your post, however the increase in the HP a tank or healer receives is easily offset by the increased damage that dps classes put out over tanks and healers...so I dont see how this thread made it 15 pages without anyone pointing out the common sense. Outside of the tanks in dps gear thing assasins/shadows do this is pretty much working as intended so wz medpacks as a percentage heal is pretty irrelevant.

 

So..yea..god bless these thread starters?

Edited June 30, 2012 by Rebornlos

[Ssfbistimg]

You can't give Healers + Tanks a 35% bail out. It's a joke, trust me.

 

I play shadow tank. Now I run this with full DPS gear and Switch to Full TANK gear in 3 spots.

 

1) alone & Gaurding on NC and Civil

2) Huttball

3) Defending on VS

 

Trust me when I tell you the "war Zone Medpack" is an Unfair advantage for me. (35% of 24k is almost a 9k heal!) As it is for healers.

 

You can NOT allow a free 35% heal ever 1.5 min. Hell my up time on a Full WH Pyro tech is greater then 1.5 min with an LoS.

 

Trust me Sign this!

 

my warzone medpacs say they are on a 3 minute cooldown. maybe my toolbar lies to me tho. but it seems i have to rotate them with my Rakata medpac.

[Elkirin]

As the game is killed off down to a few groups of 8 players, I am hoping that the posters who continually do all they can to chase everyone away, have done the right thing and subscribed for a few years....

[Varicite]

As the game is killed off down to a few groups of 8 players, I am hoping that the posters who continually do all they can to chase everyone away, have done the right thing and subscribed for a few years....

 

lol.

 

Yes, making you buy a medpac for a whopping 10 commendations is chasing everyone away.

 

Man, your generation is self-entitled.

[cyvaris]

 

The only classes that can use this medpack (or any medpack for that matter) on cooldown are.. classes that can use vanish/escape/force camo/etc.. That means Shadows/Sins, Marauders/Sents, Scoundrels/Ops..

 

Wrong. Sentinel/Marauder stealth does not remove them from combat.

[RobNightfall]

REALLY?

 

Not one of you understands this...

 

God Bless these forums!

 

We get it, we just don't agree with you. Doing 9k in damage is not hard in this game at all, even if you're a tank spec, let alone a DPS class. The warzone medpacs are one of the few things BW actually has in the game that helps with balance. If you don't like it and feel you are so uber that it provides you with a massive advantage then show your l337 skills off by not using them. Please stop trying to make the rest of us play as stupidly as possible.

[Draqsko]

Wrong. Sentinel/Marauder stealth does not remove them from combat.

 

Sorry, does for Scoundrels, my bad.. didn't play a Sent since I went Guardian instead with a JK.. Maybe because you tend to DoT up people.. DoTs invoke aggro even if you've broken out of combat.