So has anyone else noticed how we have no real economy and crafting is worthless?

[ivanhedgehog]

20 minutes a day in the Black Hole...what exactly do people want?

 

30 min in the black hole, + the 10 min loading times..then travel to belsavis+5 min...another 30-40 min there including travel time, to min more travelling to illum(+5), another 20 min there

 

this if you dont do the heroics.

 

30

10

5

40

5

20

____

just under 2 hours.....

no heroics in there

 

sounds like a blast

 

mmorpg =/= must grind

 

as far as the economy, all crafts are not created equal. A lot of the choices by the dev really bring into question their sanity. 10k plus schematics that dont tell you till you have bought them that they are BOP. so you cant sell them and they are useless after the 1st one you make.

[Celebrus]

mmorpg =/= must grind

 

Wasn't this supposed to be a MMO without the "grind" to begin with? I do recall them saying something along those lines last year.

 

It's funny though, they did remove a lot of the grind, mostly the fun kind of grinds though.

 

You can't grind for pets in this MMO, but you can grind credits to buy them.

 

You can't grind for mounts in this MMO, but you can grind credits to buy them.

 

You can't grind for materials in this MMO, but you can grind credits to buy/mission for them.

 

There are no faction reputations to grind.

 

There are no/very few significant world drops in this MMO.

 

They removed all of the fun aspects of grinding, and condensed all of the content of their game down into what amounts to nothing more than a credit treadmill, herding us towards the same 3 daily hubs everytime a patch with more credit sinks is pushed out on us.

 

It's a limited plan, and this particular themepark attraction isn't going to stay fresh for long. They should probably be coming up with better ideas on keeping their player base engaged.

Edited June 28, 2012 by Celebrus

[Nighthawked]

My god will people stop complaining about dailies? WoW has them. I did them for MONTHS. Yes the same quest every day for MONTHS. And yes I am one of those people that can only play under 10 hours a week. Once I got to 85, what else did I have to do? 10 hours a week is not enough to Raid, and I would seriously suck at PVP if I did not get all the PVP gear.

 

So I only did dailies.

 

You guys REALLY need to stop complaining. Do not like dailies? DO NOT DO THEM!

 

This is the way the game is. Themepark MMOs are all like this. They will NOT just change this game to a sandbox game just because people said so. This game will probably never change from the themepark style. Sorry, but you cannot expect a released MMO to change its sub-genre.

 

Once I hit 85 in WoW, what is there to do that is NOT A GRIND? Please tell me? How is WoW SUCH a success if grinding is BAD? Everything I do in WoW is grind at 85.

 

This game is a lot better, you do not need to grind. Make an alt and experience a new story. Do not like alts, oh well. You cannot satisfy everyone.

Edited June 28, 2012 by Nighthawked

[Celebrus]

My god will people stop complaining about dailies? WoW has them. I did them for MONTHS. Yes the same quest every day for MONTHS. And yes I am one of those people that can only play under 10 hours a week. Once I got to 85, what else did I have to do? 10 hours a week is not enough to Raid, and I would seriously suck at PVP if I did not get all the PVP gear.

 

So I only did dailies.

 

You guys REALLY need to stop complaining. Do not like dailies? DO NOT DO THEM!

 

This is the way the game is. Themepark MMOs are all like this. They will NOT just change this game to a sandbox game just because people said so. This game will probably never change from the themepark style. Sorry, but you cannot expect a released MMO to change its sub-genre.

 

Once I hit 85 in WoW, what is there to do that is NOT A GRIND? Please tell me? How is WoW SUCH a success if grinding is BAD? Everything I do in WoW is grind at 85.

 

This game is a lot better, you do not need to grind. Make an alt and experience a new story. Do not like alts, oh well. You cannot satisfy everyone.

 

They are the best way of obtaining currency in this game by a large margin. Avoiding them is shooting yourself in the foot when it comes to progressing your legacy, farming materials, buying mounts, and so on, within this game.

 

It simply is not an option to not do the dailies, whether you like them or not, that is why a lot of people are complaining.

[Nighthawked]

Wasn't this supposed to be a MMO without the "grind" to begin with? I do recall them saying something along those lines last year.

 

It's funny though, they did remove a lot of the grind, mostly the fun kind of grinds though.

 

You can't grind for pets in this MMO, but you can grind credits to buy them.

 

You can't grind for mounts in this MMO, but you can grind credits to buy them.

 

You can't grind for materials in this MMO, but you can grind credits to buy/mission for them.

 

There are no faction reputations to grind.

 

There are no/very few significant world drops in this MMO.

 

They removed all of the fun aspects of grinding, and condensed all of the content of their game down into what amounts to nothing more than a credit treadmill, herding us towards the same 3 daily hubs everytime a patch with more credit sinks is pushed out on us.

 

It's a limited plan, and this particular themepark attraction isn't going to stay fresh for long. They should probably be coming up with better ideas on keeping their player base engaged.

 

And it mostly is. Make alts if you do not like a grind. Do not like making alts? Oh well.

 

Really, what do people want if they have these reasons:

 

Crafting: "Too Boring"

Play the GTN: "Too time consuming"

Dailies: "Too boring"

Make alts: "I hate alts"

....

 

They gave you options, what do people expect BW to do for them?

[Nighthawked]

They are the best way of obtaining currency in this game by a large margin. Avoiding them is shooting yourself in the foot when it comes to progressing your legacy, farming materials, buying mounts, and so on, within this game.

 

It simply is not an option to not do the dailies, whether you like them or not, that is why a lot of people are complaining.

 

How is that any different than WoW? Dailies there always give the best money for the time you spend.

[Celebrus]

And it mostly is. Make alts if you do not like a grind. Do not like making alts? Oh well.

 

Really, what do people want if they have these reasons:

 

Crafting: "Too Boring"

Play the GTN: "Too time consuming"

Dailies: "Too boring"

Make alts: "I hate alts"

....

 

They gave you options, what do people expect BW to do for them?

 

The first two bolded lines are essentially the same thing. Have you seen the GTN lately? It's absolutely flooded with crap, but not a lot of it is actually selling, take a peek for yourself. So your first two options are actually just one, because you can't make money through crafting without also playing the GTN.

 

Dailies are the best option.

 

Making alts does not make money, especially not if you actively level their crew skills, it simply isn't a viable path to use to make a significant amount of money.

 

Also, grinding levels is still grinding, and making another alt just opens up more expenses in the new legacy perks.

[Celebrus]

How is that any different than WoW? Dailies there always give the best money for the time you spend.

 

At least in WoW there are typically more dailies that are possible to complete than you are allowed to by your daily cap.

 

What that means is that you actually have an option on where and how you spend your time completing your dailies. You aren't just *always* herded towards the same locations, providing more dailies with a daily cap would be my preferred path of improving the daily system.

 

I remember clearly at level 85 taking several of my characters back to Icecrown simply to run the tournament dailies, because that was one of the more enjoyable things to me and they still rewarded decent gold at that time at least, I had also taken a break during Wotlk and missed out on them.

 

Personally I don't mind dailies themselves and I'm not saying they should completely scrap them, they just need more flavor and variety is all, which I am sure we will eventually see.

Edited June 28, 2012 by Celebrus

[Nighthawked]

The first two bolded lines are essentially the same thing. Have you seen the GTN lately? It's absolutely flooded with crap, but not a lot of it is actually selling, take a peek for yourself. So your first two options are actually just one, because you can't make money through crafting without also playing the GTN.

 

Dailies are the best option.

 

Making alts does not make money, especially not if you actively level their crew skills, it simply isn't a viable path to use to make a significant amount of money.

 

Also, grinding levels is still grinding, and making another alt just opens up more expenses in the new legacy perks.

 

I am sorry, the GTN on my server has some awesome stuff in it.

 

The making alts was a suggestion for those that say there is nothing to do at level 50 other than to grind. I am sorry you feel making alts is just a level grind. I get sucked in to the story and I am currently playing all 8 storylines.

 

What do you people want? If BW made 200 story lines that last 1,000 hours EACH people would STILL complain once the reach the end. What do you people want from the game? There is NO POSSIBLE WAY to avoid grinds in a themepark MMO. And no matter how much you complain, BW will not make this into a sandbox MMO.

[DiLune]

At least in WoW there are typically more dailies that are possible to complete than you are allowed to by your daily cap.

 

What that means is that you actually have an option on where and how you spend your time completing your dailies. You aren't just *always* herded towards the same locations, providing more dailies with a daily cap would be my preferred path of improving the daily system.

 

I remember clearly at level 85 taking several of my characters back to Icecrown simply to run the tournament dailies, because that was one of the more enjoyable things to me, and I had taken a break during Wotlk and missed out on them.

 

Personally I don't mind dailies themselves and I'm not saying they should completely scrap them, they just need more flavor and variety is all, which I am sure we will eventually see.

 

The Black Hole was good design, if they would make the boxes respawn a little faster. Everything in an efficient radius, almost a linear way to complete all the dailies and be done with them quickly. Belsavis is like the Pit of Hell for me in terms of doing dailies. I only go there if I need some credits for something (which, of course, means credits are always readily available.)

[DiLune]

And no matter how much you complain, BW will not make this into a sandbox MMO.

 

As a veteran of SWG, there was plenty of grindy stuff to be done during the pre-CU days (you know, the days of gigantic urban sprawl when people were still playing the game, where nostalgia has people looking back at how fabulous it was...) You go to a terminal, get a mission, go out and kill x, gather y or go to Z. It was FANTASTICLY ungrindy...wasn't it?

[Dandune]

People seem to complain more and more with each new MMO even though every new MMO is easier than previous ones. I get the feeling most whiners complain only to vent their own personal frustrations regarding some other issues outside the internet.

[DiabloDoom]

Im not even level 50 but 400 armor mech and i posted about 20 items on the GTN then logged out and played an alt sentinal for 2 days - i went back today and- and ALL of the items sold - i made well over 350 thousand and NONE OF THOSE ITEMS WERE AUGMENT RELATED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

There is an economy, iT IS working - - - - - -- geez, what the hell is wrong with the people that play this game and keep ************ all the time

 

This is why i barely look at these stupid forums - if you are aggravated with the game, quit playing the goddam thing, you ARENT chained to this game - go play crappy D3 or whatever, just relax and have fun.

Also, realize this isnt YOUR game, it is made by someone else and you are just a consumer ok?????!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

 

 

Ok, little rant over..............................:D:mad::mad:...............................................

 

You sold some items, great ...

 

The player driven economy is almost none existent in this game, why? because crafting is almost pointless. All items are predefined and can not compete with endgame items. We need unique items aesthetically and statistically which have equal or preferably better ratings than items gained from commendations. Items should be algorithmic, defined by mats, luck, skill etc. This is what makes MMORPG's seem endless, by always having the possibility of creating better items. This games crafting system is the worst I've ever had the displeasure and dissatisfaction of using.

[DiLune]

You sold some items, great ...

 

The player driven economy is almost none existent in this game, why? because crafting is almost pointless. All items are predefined and can not compete with endgame items. We need unique items aesthetically and statistically which have equal or preferably better ratings than items gained from commendations. Items should be algorithmic, defined by mats, luck, skill etc. This is what makes MMORPG's seem endless, by always having the possibility of creating better items. This games crafting system is the worst I've ever had the displeasure and dissatisfaction of using.

 

The economy isn't generally geared toward level 50 players. It is geared toward the alts of level 50 players who have money to spend to gear their alts. Its not an endgame economy, its a mid-game economy.

[DiabloDoom]

The economy isn't generally geared toward level 50 players. It is geared toward the alts of level 50 players who have money to spend to gear their alts. Its not an endgame economy, its a mid-game economy.

 

And that's exactly the problem, crafting should be the heart and soul of any game, it can give players an endless amount goals, can create an immense player driven economy creating community along the way, also stop everyong from looking the same with the same stats.

 

Anyway it still remains pointless, even for 1-49 as the time it takes you to make a set of new gear you've already out levelled it.

 

Sorry, I just misread your post, my brain obviously filled in your use of the word economy with crafting. The economy isn't for level 50's? :confused: Care to elaborate a bit more on that?

Edited June 28, 2012 by DiabloDoom

[Dandune]

The economy is fine, the problem is that most people would like to sell stuff that is not interesting anymore.

 

For example, when WH gear and crafted augments came out, there was a big economic boom with augmented WH pieces (or other moddable and craftable piece)s and various lvl22 artifact augments. While augments are still partially viable bussiness, endlessly crafting moddable pieces with hope to crit is gone now.

Currently augment kits are popular, mainly because you can easily augment non-craftable items plus people don't have to rely on luck to get augment slot.

 

So basicly, economy is very player driven since players with the supply and demand decide what is good for making credits at given moment while BW artifically boosts the supply-demand effect with new features. But you need to check the market, see what is popular and/or in high demand.

Sell things that people want/need, not what you would like them to have.

 

Not to mention, that mats always sell. Ever since launch I have always been able to sell bio mats within 1 day.

[Nibirui]

I had to pop in here long enough to update after the augment changes.....

The econ designer stayed home the day they finalized that one.....and those making a killing went to the "cheats" of the testing realm to see what to farm to rip off players with during the first 8 hours. I never believed in making it rich by taking advantage of someone who avoiding ripping others off... in real life or game.

I still can't figure out why my armormech made a pair of level 13 pants that proc'd a mod and you can't put a level 9 augment off of the GTM into them because the proc'd augment slot isn't a level 1 kit aug slot.....

Whoa!

Talking about throwing the baby out with the bath water......

I suppose that those who already have built out their armormech to the max are having a field day with the mistakes of the others who aren't sure how it works.....but.....I could see where I could too...but that would be making dark side choices instead of light...and I find that I end up neutral when I try to play a character that way.

And I will admit that I thought that level 11 orange pants with an aug proc that were as endgame as any of its 50s peers was endgame for players and a bit of a give me...but....

I liked the idea that my level 18 purples with mods could grow to endgame if my cyber and artificers did their jobs. I loved it when I thought I could add an armor kit for mods....have we clarified whether you can upgrade those kits at varying levels or whether you just trashed the epics?

Now I am not sure what they will change and how it will impact my planning.

I guess the game was built for the spur of the moment playing...log in...do a task...forget everything else... log out.

Maybe it has been a pvp game all along and I just hadn't noticed.

I am confused.

Oh, but I don't need flamers responding. I am definitely not THAT confused.

[SanguineSphinx]

My Synthweaving leveling gear sells almost instantly when I put it up. top-tier crafted leveling gear is beast, and people buy it.

[mattgyver]

The economy isn't generally geared toward level 50 players. It is geared toward the alts of level 50 players who have money to spend to gear their alts. Its not an endgame economy, its a mid-game economy.

 

which is both accurate and illustrates a system in need of revamp. Getting to 50 doesn't take long enough to build crafting into a system that dead ends.

[Nibirui]

The economy isn't generally geared toward level 50 players. It is geared toward the alts of level 50 players who have money to spend to gear their alts. Its not an endgame economy, its a mid-game economy.

 

If it weren't for the 50s gearing their young, the losses in putting items up on the GTN instead of crafting mats would be tremendous. And if all there is to farming is the profit in selling to crafters who don't farm so that they can lose money, it is a downward spiral.

 

I can put stuff up all day long and have it sell at mid-level if I want to donate my time and money to give it away. If you sell something at a loss, I need to change your phraseolgy and thinking...that definition is either called "donating" or "giving something away". If you sell something to someone because they don't know it has flaws built in...like possibly the new augments system.....that is not sellling...it is called "swindling". Donating can be considered a light side action. Swindling can be considered a dark side action. Either way, they aren't selling and aren't part of a stable monetary economy....though I prefer to think we will all help the needy and on the flip side the black market does thrive within its own little set of rules.... I am just not sure that toons in a game are that needy. So, the question becomes, does the action provide you adequate game satisfaction to keep renewing your subscription long term? Personally, farming is not my endgame drive.

Edited June 29, 2012 by Nibirui

[Amantino]

- Augments (super popular after 1.3)

- Augmentation kits

- Color crystals (+41 ones, not super prices, but its profitable)

- Enhancements/armoring/mods/hilts/etc (I just sold one for 290k)

- Cool looking orange gear

- Stims and medpacs (I've used a lot on money on stims...)

- Implants (the black hole ones, even rakata sells)

 

You can make a lot of money by selling all of this. How is that useless? There is an existing market, hence why augments got super expensive after 1.3. High demand = high price, market changes.

 

 

So far I've seen the following retorts:

 

You can make millions crafting: Crafting is boring and pointless!

 

You can make lots of money doing dailies: I refuse to grind dailies!

 

You can make millions (like the one linked earlier who made 100,000,000 credits) by playing the GTN: it's too time consuming and tedious!

 

So, how exactly do you want to earn your credits?? Because it's really starting to sound like you just want credits handed to you...

This. Edited June 29, 2012 by Aurrelio

[KiranK]

Dailies is the only good way to earn credits. Augment kits are OK, but how long until the market is flooded with them and you barely make back the mat cost? Crafting in this game is bogus. There are way too few good items you can craft.

[trueanimus]

To make the economy viable.. they have to make the crafted items viable. Here is the way it stands.

 

Right now there is no reason to have any crafting professtion except biochem. Why?

 

1. Any armor you can make (except the one or two BOP rakata items) is worthless once you run a few heroics at 50 and win a few drops. With the timer removed, you can get a full set of columi gear and ready to raid, in less than 2 days.

 

Cybermech - worthless because droids serve no purpose

 

armormech - popular now.. will be once again worthless in a week .. maybe 2

 

armsmech - worthless. pvp weapons are better than the oranged you can make

 

synthweaving - also worthles.. after you have the 2 rakata pieces you drop it because you can never make any cash with it

 

 

 

support skills are all ok... slicing still brings in the most for missions and cash.. the others are personal prefrence.. depending on what parts you want to farm.

 

The thing they should do.. is make farming mats more involving. Add harvesters like in SWG and personal crafting with venders you can set up on your ship or in player towns.. THAT is what made SWG one of the best games ever.. Player housing and a real player economy... not this sharade of one we have now that is just wow with a SW overlay.

[Monoth]

Real Economy can only be achieved by the players running it and not by artificial means like Bioware does... Also you need a decay system so that crafting is always viable and money continues to circulate between players...

 

This game could remove Crafting all togeather and you would not notice it as everything you need is given to you by loot drops or rewards.

[NoaFlux]

For the love of the Force, BW even gave all of our 50's a free 320k in this patch if you go to the PvP daily terminal. You don't do anything but pick up the quest, immediatley turn it in an take the token for 320k.

 

But its all just so much to have to deal with! Why can't we have a game where the 5 companions I'm not using can go out on gathering missions and get me stuff I can put on the GTN. That would be easier than 20 minutes in the Black Hole. Oh? Resources do sell on the GTN? Ridicoulous assumption!

 

except no one knew about this. how did u know? i couldnt get on the site to read patch notes for 3 days...found out it was my cache. either way this is anothe bio ware problem...

 

not only did i not get 350000 i bought the wrong lightsaber...figured oh ill just save up for the war hero...only to find out i need the correct BM version first.

 

never have money........never win warzones either. need 4 more wins to get my weekly and ive been playing 3 hours a day...