Deyjarl Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Wondering what people thing about the defender points, especially when 1 player just sits at an objective and does nothing the whole time win or lose? And you see that same person each time? Do you think it encourages this behavior too much? Do you think the reward amount needs to go down for each tick there is no combat at that objective? Or do you think it's just the price to pay with objective based Warzones? Do you think these types of Warzones are the problem and BW needs to create more zones like Huttball and Voidstar where you don't see this problem nearly as much? I haven't seen it overly abused, but there are times I've seen those missions where sometimes as many as 2 or more players just sit there the whole time. And if a match starts going bad that number can increase where people think oh I'll just get my defender bonus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huggsnotdruggs Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Wondering what people thing about the defender points, especially when 1 player just sits at an objective and does nothing the whole time win or lose? And you see that same person each time? Do you think it encourages this behavior too much? Do you think the reward amount needs to go down for each tick there is no combat at that objective? Or do you think it's just the price to pay with objective based Warzones? Do you think these types of Warzones are the problem and BW needs to create more zones like Huttball and Voidstar where you don't see this problem nearly as much? I haven't seen it overly abused, but there are times I've seen those missions where sometimes as many as 2 or more players just sit there the whole time. And if a match starts going bad that number can increase where people think oh I'll just get my defender bonus. If it weren't this way nobody would stay to defend. at least that "last guy to leave" is rewarded for not being the dick that was there last and left it unguarded. I present this only as a counter-arguement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_preib Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 It's a mixed bag, at the end of the day I think it is a good thing. Yes it can encourage people to throw in the towel earlier then necessary trying to worm out defender medals instead of actually try and fight to the end. But.... A.It gives that person who stood staunchly at attention for the entire warzone something for the effort. It is an unrewarding and dull job to watch the node that is either never hit or rarely hit, I don't begrudge him 5 medals for the trouble (attack for the node cap + four defensive). B.It gives teams that are grossly outmatched something to hang their hat on-- sometimes a group is just grossly outmatched, in this case a few medals to help them work up from recruit into BM so they stick around and help round out pvp queues is just fine with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calitri Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 (edited) And if a match starts going bad that number can increase where people think oh I'll just get my defender bonus. Honestly Alderaan is the only one i'll do this in, but that's only if the match is mathematicly unwinnable. If we couldn't get 2 turrets the entire match, i'm placing my money down on us not getting 3 for the duration of the match. Correction i'll do it on coast too, but that's if i'm going against a pre made where I explode on contact. I'm not getting anything out of those matches other than an inclination to not do warzones for a little bit anyway. Edited June 23, 2012 by Calitri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
countjackula Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 The changes to how objective points are earned was a step in the right direction, but it isn't complete. You can often afk "guard" a point for a reward. You can be "greedy" and rush to be the first to plant door bombs or open the bridge and get a reward, but you aren't rewarded for using your stun to stop 3 enemy players from reaching your friendly, "greedy" bomb planter. You can play "toss the ball back and forth" 2 minutes to achieve objective points, without actually accomplishing anything. It isn't perfect, but it's is better than what we had in the past. Hopefully more refinement will be made to the objective reward point system as the game continues to mature. The best tool we have currently for deciding merit is other players. I look at damage done, healing done, and objective points, but I often vote by who provided good intel to help us win or was always there ready to catch the ball or run interference, etc. So far, attentive players are our best police against the lazy who abuse the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabredance Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 (edited) I am glad there are defender points. It is an unthankful job. Edited June 23, 2012 by Sabredance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
countjackula Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 ^ It really is. When I do it, I try to provide good intel, let other know of incs before it's too late to deal with them, etc. When no one attacks the point you're guarding it's very BORING. The lack of satisfaction seeing those big damage numbers at then end of the match, even though that is mostly vanity, is a deterrent to guarding too. Rarely, the enemy team feels so beaten they give up quickly and throw a dance party for themselves on a point without actually fighting back. It isn't fun but I understand. We've all had an impossible match or two if we've played enough. Defending isn't a bad thing, and you're right, too often it goes unappreciated. The only gripe I have about defender team mates is the afk'ers or those who are generally oblivious to the point of guarding. At least we can teach the latter type of player. The former though is being purely selfish, and that should never be rewarded. Pretty hard to code the game to be able to tell the difference. Use your vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThorgrimLutgen Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 (edited) Wondering what people thing about the defender points, especially when 1 player just sits at an objective and does nothing the whole time win or lose? And you see that same person each time? Do you think it encourages this behavior too much? Do you think the reward amount needs to go down for each tick there is no combat at that objective? Or do you think it's just the price to pay with objective based Warzones? Do you think these types of Warzones are the problem and BW needs to create more zones like Huttball and Voidstar where you don't see this problem nearly as much? I haven't seen it overly abused, but there are times I've seen those missions where sometimes as many as 2 or more players just sit there the whole time. And if a match starts going bad that number can increase where people think oh I'll just get my defender bonus. I actually ended up doing this on my defence specced guardian yesterday. Went to grab west on Novare, got attacked only once throughout the whole game, was stun locked throughout the whole fight, but had called for help, who arrived and killed the stealthers. Once this was over, sat there for 10 minutes doing nothing, ended up with about 5 medals.................did ZERO damage. Did I enjoy it, hell no! However, it is a job that needs to be done, though I will be continue to avoid doing said job again. Edited June 23, 2012 by ThorgrimLutgen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetou Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 They need to make defender points scale based on the number of allies and enemies present. 1-2 Defenders, no attackers = Full defender points 3-4 Defenders, no attackers = Half defender points 3-4 Defenders, 2+ attackers = Full defender points 5-6 Defenders, 3+ attackers = Full defender points Something like that, so the people defending get a reward but that diminishes rapidly if half your team are just afk there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthMaulUK Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Theres lots of issues around this. On Civil Bore, hardly anyone wants to take the turret to their left side of the ship. Two reasons - one, if you cap it - the chances of you being attacked can be slim and you wont reach max medal cap. Or, your enemy sends at least two there to prevent the cap and you are ganked with questions being asked why you didnt cap it. It is a case of balance. If too many points were awarded, 1 node would be captured and your team could sit there and just farm - there would be no combat and right now, this is the only form of 'combat' in game outside of PvE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luciferhawke Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 are you seriously complaining because someone guarded a node you didnt want to guard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drmedic Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 as one person stated it's a step in the right direction, but there really no way to judge who to get credit to for someone like mentions stunning three people so a door can be bombed... I think the way it is fine. I usually end up being that one person stuck at a turret, even on my healer which is infuriating because lets face it YOU ARE needed where the fight is. But at the risk of sounding arrogant about it... a lot of games end up being if I DON'T go cap the turret it doesn't get capped..... because quite often I end up being the ONLY person to go for it... which ends terribly if the other teams sends 2 or more people to intercept, so yes I think the defender points are fine the way it is. in reference to people who just "go to collect defender points on a lossing game" really no different then people who bail out on a game early because it's not going to be an easy win. BUT it frees me up to at least go charge the enemy hopeless yelling RAWR !!!!! or something. in spome people defense on those games where you're just being hopelessly slaughtered can you really blame people for being demoralized and just wanting to sit at a turret .... some premades can get that way and it's no fun in the end anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMESUN Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 honestly, i do not know what to do sometimes. i really hate sitting there specially if we are losing and it seem that we would ever get another node anyway. other times i feel like its worth it(when we have control). i guess, it really comes down to are you winning or losing? imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kehtal Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 (edited) I still see people just walk away from nodes... Had it happen in a WZ this morning. There was a sage guarding left. Just up and walked off. I don't think we should discourage the behavior by taking away the points. Edited June 23, 2012 by Kehtal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllanGand Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 they need to make a button on the turret that you have to push every 30 seconds to get the damned points. I was in a novare coast the other day, the guy guarding it was afk. I was lucky I saw people going there and started heading out, by the time I got there they almost capped it and the guy still hadn't moved a muscle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livelyhound Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 as one person stated it's a step in the right direction, but there really no way to judge who to get credit to for someone like mentions stunning three people so a door can be bombed... . That's what the mvp votes are for really but they don't work because the your attacking team in the instance above don't see your 3 stuns, 1 pull, 1 root , slow whatever preventing the defenders stop your bomber. The people who do see are the opposing team. Which is why I have been advocating mvp votes being given to your opposing team not to your team. It would give a much better reflection on most valuable player. Then all they would need to do is make mvp votes actually rewarding. My 2c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vycwulf Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Defender points are a double edged sword really. On the one hand nobody would want to guard a point without some sort of reward. On the other hand there are people that do nothing but defend. I personally hate defending and would rather attack. In some matches I've gotten less medals than the defenders because half the team was dancing on a point leaving the rest of us to do the attacking. Only way to really fix it is to go into the warzones in a full premade, at least that way you can kick the dead weight the next warzone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deyjarl Posted June 24, 2012 Author Share Posted June 24, 2012 Thanks good points made. I was mostly just curious what people thought about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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