FOTM and easymode in this game

[DarthRaika]

The pvp in this game can be great but a disturbing thing has happened recently that has made the pvp boring in many rounds.

 

The fotm mentality is larger in this game than any mmo I've played. It is always a factor but I think several things make it worse in this game.

 

Now lets define fotm for SWTOR. Right now it is War (Mar or jug), tankasin, ptech, and sniper.

 

Marauder has always been popular and although it has become more popular I won't use it as an example due to its early on popularity.

 

Tankasin, ptech, and sniper were not popular early on however. Also, all three of these classes are boring to many people if you ignore the effectiveness side. People didn't play these specs for a reason. However, due to the nature of balance in this game these are 3 great classes. They also make for somewhat boring pvp when they make up the majority of a team.

 

To be really effective and a great asset these classes require skill, however to kill who you tab targetted to and to just play face >>> keyboard style these classes are great. When GEARED even the worst players can play these relatively well in 1on1 wz type situations and for the chart. This has made them very much fotm.

 

When you see a bunch of these you know the wz is going to be boring. That is my problem. The ONLY class I actually consider op is Ptech and that is from playing a vanguard and just laughing my *** off for a long time.

 

I think why this game is so fotm oriented is because there are several classes to be and still fit fotm and these classes are all decently hard to kill. I have played all of these extensively as well so I knkow what I am talking about.

 

Now Marauders I don't include in the fotm discussion, however they are included in the boring pvp discussion. They are another high dmg and huge dmg mit class. I don't actually think they are op (a well played just is much better tbh its just these are more rare) however they attract bad players who suck until they get geared up and then are all of a sudden pretty good. This again makes for boring pvp.

 

There are so many fun pvp specs with huge dmg (my non-tankashadow kills much faster than your tankashadow for example) but with less dmg mit and more requirements when it comes to positioning and targetting. This game could be great but I fear if it continues down this path most people will become bored with pvp.

 

Rift did the same thing but in a different way. Rift had many interesting specs, however they dumbed all 4 classes down into 1-3 approved specs and then most ppl slowly left (myself included). I was considered a server group best there and it was hard to leave but I just ended up getting bored.

[KryptikX]

... k?

 

I read your post twice, still not sure if you are suggesting that there is some way to fix players rerolling to FOTM, or just complaining

[DarthRaika]

well either buff the dmg and lower the dmg mit and cc of the fotm's or buff the dmg of the non fotms (which i don't reccomend as much since as I said most of the fotm's are not actually teamplay OP).

[stephenalandavie]

Fotm?

[Xerain]

You obviously didn't play this in beta... knew plenty of PT's on the pvp server because of how awesome they were.

[Tatebomb]

FOTM? Dude you listed 4/8 of the AC's lol. 1/2 the classes can't be FOTM.

[mahnmut]

FOTM? Dude you listed 4/8 of the AC's lol. 1/2 the classes can't be FOTM.

 

He actually listed 5/8 AC's in the game. The 3 he didn't are all healers - I wonder which class/role he plays?

[dcgregorya]

Now lets define fotm for SWTOR. Right now it is War (Mar or jug), tankasin, ptech, and sniper.

 

And yet, it's pretty rare where I don't go up against teams with either 4 sorcs or mercs.

 

It's weird how the less popular classes are now being rerolled as ALTS. How bizarre.

[Tatebomb]

He actually listed 5/8 AC's in the game. The 3 he didn't are all healers - I wonder which class/role he plays?

 

My bad missed one. Good point on the healers too.

[LancelotOC]

Ah this is why us healers play healers.. because it forever is challenging.

[DarthRaika]

Sin has 3 choices, I only listed 1. Marauder I didn't list as fotm so that is not included and I explained why. Merc has 3 choices. Sorc has 3 choices. Scoundrel has 3 choices. So you said 8 choices and you are wrong. I am trying to have a logical discussion about what is making the pvp in this game less fun than it could be. You likely play to make yourself feel better and not to have fun. I already am very happy irl. I play to have fun and this game has great potential.

 

I didn't list any healers because there is nothing wrong with healing. Cross healing is a prob in all mmo's and I have talked about using diminishing returns in all mmo's but no company ever does this. BTW, I mainly pug and I don't heal pugs so you are wrong there. I don't heal on any of my chars. Healing is the only spec/class mix I don't have currently.

 

I am saying that high dmg mit and decently high dmg is FOTM. This is what most people are migrating to but this is also what I hear from people is so boring. This will hurt this game's pvp. Please discuss.

Edited June 20, 2012 by DarthRaika

[DarthRaika]

Also, mercs were extremely popular early on and now are much less so. There still are a fare amount but to a much lesser extent than early on.

[ZDProletariat]

You are trying to have a logical discussion yet your initial premise is flawed and not substantiated.

Your definition of a flavor of the month doesn't make sense. Listing classes does not constitute a definition. A definition of a flavor of the month class would be something along the lines of "A class people perceive as more effective in PVP than other classes causing people to play those classes proportionally more to gain an edge in WZs." Something like that.

Once you have a definition set, then substantiate your claim by providing sources indicting the surge in specific classes over others. Then once we actually know which classes are flavor of the month, instead of relying on the gut feelings of people like you, we can finally have a logical discussion on the topic.

 

Another pit fall you encountered was only defining one spec of assassin, but not defining which specs of sniper, and knight were apparently flavor of the month. You tried to defend yourself to that other guy's argument by saying there are three choices for sage and scoundrel, but ignore that there are also three choices for the classes you listed. We're asking for some consistency here in your argument. That shouldn't be too much to ask for.

Edited June 20, 2012 by ZDProletariat

[Helig]

He actually listed 5/8 AC's in the game. The 3 he didn't are all healers - I wonder which class/role he plays?

 

When 5\8 classes are FOTM, it's actually a good sign...

[AKfourtyseven]

When 5\8 classes are FOTM, it's actually a good sign...

 

It would be, if that were the true picture.

 

Even if we believe that 5/8 classes are FOTM, we all know its really only about 7/24 talent trees that would ever make the FOTM list.

Edited June 20, 2012 by AKfourtyseven

[Helig]

It would be, if that were the true picture.

 

Even if we believe that 5/8 classes are FOTM, we all know its really only about 7/24 talent trees that would ever make the FOTM list.

 

Well, as long as those specs are available to the majority of classes...

 

But I definitely get what you're saying. I was merely being sarcastic towards the generous use of the "FOTM" word.

[AKfourtyseven]

Well, as long as those specs are available to the majority of classes...

 

But I definitely get what you're saying. I was merely being sarcastic towards the generous use of the "FOTM" word.

 

Yeah i get ya. Its true, but i do actually think the fact that the 'flavours' are spread between classes serves to hide the fact that there are very few specs actually being played in PvP these days.

 

It would be nice if each class were in the position of say marauder when it came to PvP viability.

Edited June 20, 2012 by AKfourtyseven

[DarthRaika]

ZDpro ppl like you make me sad. You think you are smart. You are obviously not. If you want to compare degrees etc we can and I will win but a smart person realizes our school system is a joke and so lets not.

 

If you play this game a bunch then you SHOULD realize that the current trend is to play a spec that does about 80 to 90% of the dmg a DD class would while having a lot of either CC or dmg mit (or both in one case haha). This makes for what is imo (and many people I talk to) both simple and boring pvp. This game has a bunch of fun and interesting classes/specs and with some minor tweaks could have many more. However the current FOTM is ruining this.

 

Also, I mentioned that this FOTM is different than any other game I have played. I have played many mmo's and this is the first time FOTM has bothered me since usually it is just 1 spec that is stupid and who cares if some noobs migrate to that spec. Also, FOTM is usually about what is super OP and in this case it is about a playstyle. Think please.

Edited June 20, 2012 by DarthRaika

[Helig]

ZDpro ppl like you make me sad. You think you are smart. You are obviously not. If you want to compare degrees etc we can and I will win but a smart person realizes our school system is a joke and so lets not.

 

If you play this game a bunch then you SHOULD realize that the current trend is to play a spec that does about 80 to 90% of the dmg a DD class would while having a lot of either CC or dmg mit (or both in one case haha). This makes for what is imo (and many people I talk to) both simple and boring pvp. This game has a bunch of fun and interesting classes/specs and with some minor tweaks could have many more. However the current FOTM is ruining this.

 

Also, I mentioned that this FOTM is different than any other game I have played. I have played many mmo's and this is the first time FOTM has bothered me since usually it is just 1 spec that is stupid and who cares if some noobs migrate to that spec. Also, FOTM is usually about what is super OP and in this case it is about a playstyle. Think please.

Dude, ad hominem just isn't cool.

 

In his posts, I see actual logic. In yours, I see a lot of emotion. Your definitions are very vague, and you don't provide evidence aside from saying "It's objective reality".

 

I play a lot of classes, and it isn't, from my experience. The only "true" FOTM class right now is Sent\'Marauder. Each time I run past the PvP box, there's a crowd of these guys, mixed with an occasional Sage, or Scoundrel. I enter a WZ, and there's a pretty good chance that there are at least 4-5 of them.

 

But really - it isn't as horrible as some people make it sound. I legitimately fear only one Marauder on my server (he's exceptionally good, and exceptionally geared). The rest, I feel like have a fair chance against.

 

If I were to change Marauders (and yes, it's one of the classes that I PvP with in endgame), I'd either halve the max duration on Cloak of Pain, or increase its cooldown to 90 seconds. I also don't feel that Force Camo needs a damage reduction component, and I believe that both, Camo and Undying Rage are far too accessible, cooldown-wise.

Edited June 20, 2012 by Helig

[xJACKTHERIPPERx]

NOOOOOO it's finally happened. Someoned called snipers FOTM.....my beloved sniper...my very first 50...the class I've been playing since beta....now I'll just look like one of the FOTM's in wz's. Why are they FOTM? They've had no real major changes since launch, a few quality of life adjustments, but thats about it. I heard some people say it's because they can counter all maras/sents out there though.

[dcgregorya]

Yeah i get ya. Its true, but i do actually think the fact that the 'flavours' are spread between classes serves to hide the fact that there are very few specs actually being played in PvP these days.

 

It would be nice if each class were in the position of say marauder when it came to PvP viability.

 

The other thing is that, when there was 8 sorcs in a warzone it was sort of bizarre. Now you expect 4-5. If you see 4-5 snipers, they're FOTM but 4-5 sorcs is just what, normal?

 

Sorcs and mercs are still incredibly popular. I'm at a loss for which class exactly is unpopular. One might argue that, 1.2 actually fixed the sorc/merc FOTM problem that 1.0/1.1 had.

[aarka]

 

The fotm mentality is larger in this game than any mmo I've played.

 

Im shocked you would say this as a past Rift player. FOTM when there are only 4 classes... It was so much worse how could just spec to fotm at will. It would be like SWTOR letting us swap advanced classes.

 

I cant really follow your argument anyway.. Im not seeing any evidence of extreme FOTM like Ive seen in other games. No where close actually. Even more bizarre is that lately Im seeing an *** ton of mercs in my wzs, supposedly one of the worst classes.

Edited June 20, 2012 by aarka

[DarthRaika]

Sigh...it is a different kind of FOTM and part of what I was saying was weird. It is a FOTM playstyle. Hence why I said different than any mmo I have played. FOTM here is nice (but not best) burst while having a whole lot of defense of some sort. It is a kind of playstyle that makes for what is imo and many of the people I talk to opinions boring and low skill. This is my point. I guess I am asking too much for people to think outside of the past mmo box.

 

In rift there were certain specs that were fotm (and I disagreed as to what was op). For instance when pyro was considered OP I laughed my *** off as I destroyed everyone on MM and thought pyros were just fodder to my MM. MM was op as hell btw .

 

Also, if you can't discern the condescending tone of pro then you are just dumb. I am sorry but that is true.

[sauerkraut]

The pvp in this game can be great but a disturbing thing has happened recently that has made the pvp boring in many rounds.

 

The fotm mentality is larger in this game than any mmo I've played. It is always a factor but I think several things make it worse in this game.

 

Now lets define fotm for SWTOR. Right now it is War (Mar or jug), tankasin, ptech, and sniper.

 

Marauder has always been popular and although it has become more popular I won't use it as an example due to its early on popularity.

 

Tankasin, ptech, and sniper were not popular early on however. Also, all three of these classes are boring to many people if you ignore the effectiveness side. People didn't play these specs for a reason. However, due to the nature of balance in this game these are 3 great classes. They also make for somewhat boring pvp when they make up the majority of a team.

 

To be really effective and a great asset these classes require skill, however to kill who you tab targetted to and to just play face >>> keyboard style these classes are great. When GEARED even the worst players can play these relatively well in 1on1 wz type situations and for the chart. This has made them very much fotm.

 

When you see a bunch of these you know the wz is going to be boring. That is my problem. The ONLY class I actually consider op is Ptech and that is from playing a vanguard and just laughing my *** off for a long time.

 

I think why this game is so fotm oriented is because there are several classes to be and still fit fotm and these classes are all decently hard to kill. I have played all of these extensively as well so I knkow what I am talking about.

 

Now Marauders I don't include in the fotm discussion, however they are included in the boring pvp discussion. They are another high dmg and huge dmg mit class. I don't actually think they are op (a well played just is much better tbh its just these are more rare) however they attract bad players who suck until they get geared up and then are all of a sudden pretty good. This again makes for boring pvp.

 

There are so many fun pvp specs with huge dmg (my non-tankashadow kills much faster than your tankashadow for example) but with less dmg mit and more requirements when it comes to positioning and targetting. This game could be great but I fear if it continues down this path most people will become bored with pvp.

 

Rift did the same thing but in a different way. Rift had many interesting specs, however they dumbed all 4 classes down into 1-3 approved specs and then most ppl slowly left (myself included). I was considered a server group best there and it was hard to leave but I just ended up getting bored.

 

Those damn imperials, they are always OP!!!!! Something must be done. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH!!!!!!!!!!

[NoTomorrow]

Snipers FOTM? What are you smoking dude? Most of Sniper rerollers are ppl looking to get the crit class buff from agent. Since Operative is such an awkward class by itself, with an awkward rotation and abilities, the sole fact that most are playing healer ignoring the other 2 dps specs, it's natural that ppl will go play sniper.

 

And sniper is a class well balanced with clear defined weaknesses, but it has a very nice rotation with all skill trees being oh god! VIABLE! It does not suffer from the BS like operatives, assassins, sorcerers, pt, mercs that have at least one 31 pts skill tree not good for pvp.