What advice would you give a questioning Jedi?

[Allronix]

Hello!

 

For those of you who haven't seen me in a long time, I'm a big KOTOR nut and fanfic writer who comes to these boards from time to time. Currently playing through as a LS Shadow for this game.

 

Anyway, I'm writing some SW fanfic, and I could use the perspective of other fans for this.

 

Currently, I have a Jedi character who's struggling with the Force and the Order. She's good with a lightsaber, better with powers (a Consular), but the more she's out in the universe, the more isolated and lonely she's feeling. All around her, she sees families, people with close friendships, lovers, marriages...attachment. You know, that horrible, horrible thing Jedi are never supposed to have?

 

Well, it's gnawing on her. She finds herself wondering what it would be like to throw the lightsaber away and live in peaceful obscurity. She wonders would it would be like to become a mother. She's craving those close ties, and a life where the fate of the galaxy isn't on her shoulders all the damn time. She's starting to resent the Force itself for her situation, and it's limiting her ability to use it.

 

She doesn't want to go Sith; she loves the Republic's ideals too much. She just doesn't know what to do with her feelings, and the Code is sounding hollow. At the same time, she knows that her position could do the Republic a lot of good, and enable her to help others. She also knows that she has obligation and duties to perform, and doesn't want to betray the Order in its hours of need.

 

So, what advice would anyone have for a Jedi wondering if it's worth it?

[Consensus]

Attachments almost always lead to the dark side.

If she wants to have attachments she must give up the force or she may become the very thing she wishes to destroy.

[RendValor]

Tell her to pull a 'Bindo'

[Revan-the-knight]

Mention other great Jedi that didnt fall from it, Like Jolee Bindo, Revan and Bastila Shan, they held true to the Republics Ideals, Revan became a Dark Lord out of Neccesity to Stop the Emperor and Prepare the Galaxy for his Attack, And BAstila fell because of her internal Desire and Malaks Torture, so neither one fell because of Love, Bastila was Redeemed by Love so that might be an even better factor to consider

[Hitomo_x]

So, what advice would anyone have for a Jedi wondering if it's worth it?

 

Go back to class. As you have understand nothing at all.

 

Like you describe it shes struggling with the dark side as she cant pull the reasons out of herself. She needs external references to determine the value of her own decisions. She is becoming a sith.

[Revan-the-knight]

Go back to class. As you have understand nothing at all.

 

Like you describe it shes struggling with the dark side as she cant pull the reasons out of herself. She needs external references to determine the value of her own decisions. She is becoming a sith.

 

One Does not Simply BECOME a Sith! If anything she becomes a Dark Jedi

[Dyashida]

My personal opinion is that a Jedi may form attachments, love should always be selfless, you should never allow you're emotions to control your decisions but that does not mean you are not allowed emotions. If you do not feel you are not human, what would put you above a droid if you obeyed merely a simple set of algorithms and rules with no humanity.

Sith and the Dark side seems to be more about emotions for personal power and pleasure, controlled by emotions. A Jedi must be in control of their emotions, but they can feel them.

 

I'll put it in terms of a quest I remember, you have the choice between saving someone you are attached and attracted to, a close friend, maybe lover, or condeming her to death which will save the lives of hundreds of others. The Jedi/light decision would be to save the people even though you're emotions tell you to save her, the emotion driven way would be to save the friend for your own ends. But to not feel anything when you make that decision is almost as bad as making the dark decision. You must feel to understand and feel empathy but you must not allow yourself to be controlled by it.

 

She should also remember that the Force is a gift and a honour, some of us do not have that power and yet we still walk our path in life in accordance with that philosopy because for us to do the best for the galaxy we must feel but not be controlled by that feeling.

 

My own way is rather grabled so I would advise that Jedi to read this thread: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=474183 notice the comments by ScarletBlaze, they are particularly worth reading.

 

I think it'd help give you some ideas.

Edited June 25, 2012 by Dyashida

[GrandMasterOdin]

Advice from an Old Republic Jedi Master that is leaning toward the conservative side:

 

The Order is built to protect the peace and the love of every being, something that I sense you value. As Jedi, we need to be unattached to tap into the Light Side of the Force in order to secure that objective. We always need to restrain our thoughts and feelings to ensure that they would not have to. It has been our burden and sacrifice, so that the ones we protect would be unencumbered. If we do not do this, then who will?

 

I wish that these attachments does not affect us, those attuned to the force, this drastically. However, the risk is highly greater than the experience. With our potential, we could harm the very thing you wish to experience in a much grander scale.

 

Advice from a more liberal Jedi or even someone not from the Order:

 

Have you ever wondered that we(you) as Jedi could be too attached to the Code we(you) follow? Yeah, that code that says not to attach yourself, aren't we(you) too attached to it? Don't you ever ask if our minds are clouded by the Code, looking at it with bias as if it is infalliable? Isn't that an even more dangerous attachment compared to the commitment given to a lover? If you say that it is an exception, then shouldn't there be other exceptions as well?

[EnsignSorrow]

Love is not forbidden in the Jedi order. Only attachment.

 

Attachment could be a very selfish thing, and it is not natural. it is impossible within the dynamics of the universe. Sometimes you must let go of the things you love for the greater good, and also attachment can easily be made to serve evil. Many virtues that are important for a force-user to have cannot be obtained through such a petty bond.

 

Only the force can create such lasting bonds, and even those are temporary. Everyone eventually become one with the force.

 

A good example of this is the movies where Vader tries to manipulate Luke through his attachment, or the more obvious one where Anakin himself is manipulated because of his unnatural attachment.

 

That is why Yoda warns Luke to stay and complete his training before confronting Vader. Luke didn't listen, and luckily Luke had a strong enough constitution to resist because he had gone into that cave, and had a force-premonition that he was under the mask of Vader (he never wanted to be like Vader). Moments after Yoda told him the future is always in motion. Luke gets defeated by Vader at Bespin, and loses the same arm as Vader, which Luke realizes, and helps him resist the Emperor's manipulation again on the Second Death Star.

 

Though the story doesn't always go this way. The dark side of the force is hard to resist for most.

 

Final note: It's has also been said that the Jedi order restricts such things in order to keep powerful force-user dynasties from creating war with each other.

Edited June 25, 2012 by EnsignSorrow

[TheronFett]

As an outsider looking in, I find the Jedi Code (and the entire Order for that matter) to be a bit contradictory. It's very easy to see some of the shortcomings, and the justification of the Sith's stance. Generally speaking, the Order forbids marriage and attachments of any kind.

 

"Train yourself to let go of everything you fear to lose."

- Yoda to Anakin

 

Yet, the Order is structured so that Padawans attach themselves to their Masters during the most influential years of their lives. How many times has this relationship blossomed into something more than just teacher/student? Countless times Masters have saved their counterparts (and vice versa) from perils that were in direct contradiction to the objectives of the mission at hand. At other times, exceptions have been made in the case of relationships, marriages, and even children. During Yoda's era, the Order was much more strict in its structure, and less forgiving to such things.

 

During the Old Republic era though, I think things are a bit different. Especially "now". The Jedi Order is in somewhat of a rebuilding phase with a makeshift temple on Tython. Not to mention, a Grand Master who is the daughter of two Jedi. I would certainly think that the Order would be less stringent on the topics of marriage and attachments.

 

 

Kira even states that the Order can sanction a relationship (Jedi Knight story).

 

 

I would imagine that your character's plight is not unique. Some Jedi probably wonder if the grass is really greener on the other side at one point, or even ponder leaving the Order. Some actually do. Force sensitive children are essentially taken from their home and raised in the temple to be Jedi. For 99% of them, the Jedi way is the only way they know. Keep in mind that the Jedi are essentially a combo of Monks and Samurai. It's a way of life, not just a job. Do Amish kids see a car drive by and wonder what it would be like to drive one? Some may, but I doubt most do. They are raised to believe their way is the only way. The Jedi are no different.

Edited June 25, 2012 by TheronFett

[ScarletBlaze]

I would tell her to figure out what she believes in. There is a explanation to the code that I use for my Jedi (whether it's wrong or right depends on your opinion and view ) which might help your Jedi. It will basically come down to your view and beliefs.

 

 

No where does it say a jedi doesn't feel emotion because they do. Do they get angry yes? Do they let their anger overrule their judgment from right and wrong? Usually no. Some do, some don't.

 

Can a Jedi love. Of course they can and some do and have no trouble with it. The problem is when jealousy comes into play. If you can't trust the person you love than it becomes a problem. To love someone is putting that person before yourself and some people (not just jedi) have problems doing that. It is all about them not someone else.

 

 

 

The Jedi Code, stated, removes the human element and shows what is left. Yet it does not say that is how one should act. It does not say Act with No Emotion. Instead it shows us the error in heedlessly following our human nature. Emotion clouds peace, ignorance overshadows knowledge, passion distorts serenity, chaos destroys harmony, death hides the Force. Now lets bring this all together and look at each line of the Jedi Code and how it exactly guides a Jedi in daily life.

 

There is no emotion; there is peace. A Jedi acts and reacts in a calm manner, not allowing the emotions they are feeling to cloud their judgment, reasoning, and objective.

 

 

There is no ignorance; there is knowledge. A Jedi faces each new challenge with the opportunity to gain more knowledge. They do not fear the unknown, but take the chance to learn about the unknown.

 

 

There is no passion; there is serenity. A Jedi does not allow their passions in life to affect their judgment, reason, or objectives. A Jedi acts and reacts keeping a serene mind, unaffected by their personal desire.

 

 

There is no chaos; there is harmony. A Jedi seeks moderation and balance with all things. Even though life can be very chaotic a Jedi finds harmony with that chaos. Balance in the world around them, balance within themselves, the middle-ground in each situation, and even on a larger scale harmony between technology and nature.

 

 

And lastly there is no death; there is the Force. A Jedi understands that the Force is created and associated with life. Yet death is also a natural part of life. For a Jedi there is no fear of death. For death is merely one more unknown, another chance for the Jedi to gain knowledge about the Force itself.

 

 

Just my opinion and my view.

[Captain_Zone]

This is what I'd say:

 

Look, kid. The constant misinterpretation of the Jedi Code is quite possibly the main reason why so many Jedi fall in the first place. If you try to turn yourself into a drone like the council wants, you're going to get the shock of your life and probably overreact when something does break down your walls.

 

Positive emotions are the way to go. Not "no emotion".

 

Being passionate about your work is not a bad thing, either. Just don't overdo it. If you don't love your job, then you're in the wrong line of work.

 

Fear is natural. It's the act of overcoming fear that sets us apart from everyone else.

 

We do what we must to ensure peace in the galaxy. To secure peace, prepare for war.

 

Oh, and the council's take on relationships/marriage is a load of crap. Love and relationships don't lead to the Dark Side. If things go bad, just be cool.

[Mordegrus]

Hello!

 

For those of you who haven't seen me in a long time, I'm a big KOTOR nut and fanfic writer who comes to these boards from time to time. Currently playing through as a LS Shadow for this game.

 

Anyway, I'm writing some SW fanfic, and I could use the perspective of other fans for this.

 

Currently, I have a Jedi character who's struggling with the Force and the Order. She's good with a lightsaber, better with powers (a Consular), but the more she's out in the universe, the more isolated and lonely she's feeling. All around her, she sees families, people with close friendships, lovers, marriages...attachment. You know, that horrible, horrible thing Jedi are never supposed to have?

 

Well, it's gnawing on her. She finds herself wondering what it would be like to throw the lightsaber away and live in peaceful obscurity. She wonders would it would be like to become a mother. She's craving those close ties, and a life where the fate of the galaxy isn't on her shoulders all the damn time. She's starting to resent the Force itself for her situation, and it's limiting her ability to use it.

 

She doesn't want to go Sith; she loves the Republic's ideals too much. She just doesn't know what to do with her feelings, and the Code is sounding hollow. At the same time, she knows that her position could do the Republic a lot of good, and enable her to help others. She also knows that she has obligation and duties to perform, and doesn't want to betray the Order in its hours of need.

 

So, what advice would anyone have for a Jedi wondering if it's worth it?

 

Join the Dark Side!

Either that, or suicide...

[kirorx]

You should have her question the jedi's attachment to the force.

 

To have no attachments would make the jedi truely useless meditators. How could they fight for the republic if they did not believe its ideals or care for the people. who is paying for that palace of a temple?

 

The jedi are hypocrites and pick and choose which emotions are allowed and which are not.

 

Would Yoda be so calm and collective if he lost his connection to the force?

 

They fawn over their own powers and rely so heavily on them that I would say jedi simply do not love because they are too involved with there own selfishness to see what goes on around them.

[ScarletBlaze]

You should have her question the jedi's attachment to the force.

 

To have no attachments would make the jedi truely useless meditators. How could they fight for the republic if they did not believe its ideals or care for the people. who is paying for that palace of a temple?

 

The jedi are hypocrites and pick and choose which emotions are allowed and which are not.

 

Would Yoda be so calm and collective if he lost his connection to the force?

 

They fawn over their own powers and rely so heavily on them that I would say jedi simply do not love because they are too involved with there own selfishness to see what goes on around them.

 

To say Jedi do not love would be incorrect. There have been jedi that have loved and have had relationship. To say it is not the norm is true because not all jedi do but then again we can't just equate selfishness to jedi. Anyone can be selfish.

[ScarletBlaze]

This is what I'd say:

 

Look, kid. The constant misinterpretation of the Jedi Code is quite possibly the main reason why so many Jedi fall in the first place. If you try to turn yourself into a drone like the council wants, you're going to get the shock of your life and probably overreact when something does break down your walls.

 

Positive emotions are the way to go. Not "no emotion".

 

Being passionate about your work is not a bad thing, either. Just don't overdo it. If you don't love your job, then you're in the wrong line of work.

 

Fear is natural. It's the act of overcoming fear that sets us apart from everyone else.

 

We do what we must to ensure peace in the galaxy. To secure peace, prepare for war.

 

Oh, and the council's take on relationships/marriage is a load of crap. Love and relationships don't lead to the Dark Side. If things go bad, just be cool.

 

Most of the time love and relationships can be the one thing that keeps you from falling to the dark side. If you love someone that person could be the one reason or the one person that keeps you from falling to the dark side,.

[Sacrmeno]

Become a Bounty Hunter

[kirorx]

Most of the time love and relationships can be the one thing that keeps you from falling to the dark side. If you love someone that person could be the one reason or the one person that keeps you from falling to the dark side,.

 

Or that person would cause you to fall (ie vader; his attachment to padme was his downfall).

 

I feel the jedi would disagree with this idea of strong loving emotions because of the attachement issue.

[ScarletBlaze]

kirorx;4782397]Or that person would cause you to fall (ie vader; his attachment to padme was his downfall).

 

Anakin problem was also his temper and his inablility to let go and I do wonder about his love for Padme. She asked him to come away with her and leave . He didn't. He was more focused on power than his love for Padme. He was placing what he wanted over what was right and what she was trying to get him to do.

 

I feel the jedi would disagree with this idea of strong loving emotions because of the attachement issue

 

There have been other jedi that had relationship that didn't fall to the dark side. And in this time period relationship are not forbidden just restricted . Take a look at the Jedi Consular storyline especially on the female side, she gets no darkpoints for having a relationship with Iresso.

Edited July 3, 2012 by ScarletBlaze

[casirabit]

Or that person would cause you to fall (ie vader; his attachment to padme was his downfall).

 

I feel the jedi would disagree with this idea of strong loving emotions because of the attachement issue.

 

Anakin downfall had more to do with his attitude and his temper than his relationship with Padme. He was always angry over something and he thought himself better than anyone else. Padme begged him to leave and come away with her on Mustafar but did he listen? No. Again he put his needs and wants before anyone else. He was more focused on power than anything.

 

If you truly love someone and they see you are heading down the darkside they will most of the time will try to get you to turn away from the darkside, as Padme tried with Anakin. The reason Anakin didn't was because he was too focused on being all powerful, he even stated to Padme he could overthrow/kill the emperor and make things the way "they (he)" wanted. That is not love that is setting yourself above the one you say you love.

 

 

Now as far as the jedi having a problem with relationships, they have been known to be wrong and they don't forbid them, they restirct them . You can have a relationship provided you prove that you are able to have one. Take for instance the Jedi Consular, she is able to have a relationship with the trooper and receives no dark points for it. I know this personally as I have married him on my Shadow and the only dark points she has received was for the stupid quest in tython where the masters decide to have you become a "glorfiied" spy on two padawan. That is the only dark side points I have received on my Shadow.

[bionamaster]

Hmm, interesting question. But, I would say this: Attatchments lead to the Dark Side. There isn't a safe haven between the Light and the Dark, because the Dark Side will corrupt you. And it will turn you into the very thing you wish to avoid.