Recruits in Pvp

[Gorghte]

See my answer to that is make expertise differences less extreme. Frankly when you first pvp at 50, either with nothing, or just in recruit gear - it's HORRIBLE. It's no fun AT ALL. You just die, die, die, die, die. You can't hurt anyone and everyone two-shots you. Grinding out that battlemaster gear is horribly painful - and tbh? Even then you'll still be at a disadvantage because more people have war-hero than don't.

 

Expertise ruins warzones entirely, IMO. Why the heck does anyone need a stat to make them "good at pvp" anyway? It should be skill based not expertise based.

 

MMO's typically are stat based games and if you get your stats from gear, the game is gear dependent. SWTOR gives you your stats from gear, so SWTOR is gear dependent.

 

For PVP, Expertise is an important stat so WH > BM > Recruit > everything else. Expertise doesn't make you a good PvPer just gives you a gear advantage. Same as having Campaign doesn't make you a good PvEer, just gives you a gear advantage.

 

Without Expertise it would be the same just no need for PvP specific gear so Campaign > Black Hole > Rakata > Columni > Tionese > lvl 50. And believe me the stat differences between Campaign and level 50 gear is much much greater than WH and Recruit.

 

Expertise only separates PvP from PvE gear. It doesn't make the game or PvP more or less gear dependent. The game is gear dependent period.

[UGLYMRJ]

I just played few games on my marauder, full recruit gear, rakata medpack, no stims, no adrenals and two battlemaster peaces.

 

Top#1 dps

http://postimage.org/image/d9qx1prll/

 

This game i played not from the beginning of the match, but joined 2 mins after it started top#1 in kills and third in damage done. If I played it from the start I would be dps#1 too.

http://postimage.org/image/eu30a37jf/

 

No way i feel myself gimped due to gear, i feel comfortable, i had many situations 1v1 or even sometimes 1v2 against better geared people and won.

 

I was capable of the same in recruit gear but I promise you will see a huge difference when you get your BM.... but thank you for proving that the stat difference in recruit gear is < skill. Bads don't get it...

[RefugeASSASSIN]

The ones that can't afford it annoy me since i'm constantly broke but just doing the dailys for one day is enough to get the 300k or so for recruit gear.

 

This is no excuse, you can get it for FREE at outlaws den on Tatooine.

[UGLYMRJ]

This is no excuse, you can get it for FREE at outlaws den on Tatooine.

 

300k ain't even much but seriously? I did not know this.... free? What's the catch?

[Astarica]

300k ain't even much but seriously? I did not know this.... free? What's the catch?

 

There are random chests that pop up in Tatooine that will have a chance of dropping a piece of Recruit gear.

 

At least prior to the server transfers, since nobody is anywhere you can simply go there and collet all the chests while queueing up for WZ. I'm not sure if it's totally safe now that there are actually people around. This method clearly only works if very few people are aware of it, since if many people are attempting this then you'd just run into each other and have to fight.

[Akyio]

It does really need some separation.

Recruit hear is horrible but you can't just tell off those people with recruit gear because when you level up some new class, you will have to eventually buy recruit gear yourself.

 

I think honestly gear at 50+ should be more about specializing yourself in certain place(like some gear that improves certain skills), but not this weird expertise/stats overal increase which again makes people with recruit, and even BM gear much worse than people who have augmented WH gear. They tried to change something but it didnt work at all, if im right then some time ago most of PvP team was fired that made also current recruit/BM/WH

[Akyio]

300k ain't even much but seriously? I did not know this.... free? What's the catch?

 

and also in 1.3 you get it for free when your character reaches level 50, all peaces, even relics.

[UGLYMRJ]

and also in 1.3 you get it for free when your character reaches level 50, all peaces, even relics.

 

Not a bad thing... I'll make sure to keep my alts at 49 until 1.3

[Astarica]

If we define gear as the diference between full BM and full recruit (going up against full WH as recruit is a bit out of question), then it's class > gear > skill. If you're a powerful class you'll do okay, especially against a weaker class. On the flip side, don't even think about fighting that Marauder that can eat a WH geared member of your class for lunch if you happen to be a bad matchup against him while you only have recruit gear.

 

That said having skill will allow you to recognize where the good/bad matchups are, so in some sense it's as important as the class factor, though no amount of skill is going to help you when you do get caught in a 1on1 against a class that hard counters you and outgears you.

[Akyio]

Not a bad thing... I'll make sure to keep my alts at 49 until 1.3

 

I think you dont really need to wait when i transfered my char to PTS, i got on my 50 sage that i had long time ago a free box with recruit gear. it was in republic fleet near pvp quest terminal, just had to click terminal and got that box. well they might change when it goes live who knows ^_^

[mikedee]

Ruin it for everyone. Give them their own bracket.

 

They are better than the noobs that pvp in pve gear.

[pureeffinmetal]

So grouping with others (as intended) should be punished?

 

Lol

 

Punished? How so? If premades were queue'd against premades 100% of the time - the games would actually be fun.

 

Playing in a premade you tell me its fun to completely faceroll a bunch of unorganized pugs? Frankly this is boring to me about about 2 games in.

 

The opposite view is also true. Its not fun when PuGing to run into a premade and stand no chance.

 

With transfers in place queues are basically instant now. And just as many people premade as pug.

[Tathais]

I'm fine with a recruit only bracket. As a casual player, it takes me a good while to gear up... It takes me 2-3 weeks to get the weekly done since I play maybe 2 nights a week these days. This makes it a daunting task to gear up and all the while I'm getting slaughtered by the fully geared players. I find myself dying inside a 4s stun, pre-bubbled (sage healer here). That's not skill, that's gear, and it sucks. Leveling in PvP was a good experience, gear didn't matter that much. At level 50 it's WoW's gear disparity on steroids. So please, put in a recruit bracket.

 

That said, prediction... if such a thing as a recruit-gear bracket existed, only two types of games would ever get played in SWTOR. Recruit-bracket PuGs and semi-premades, and full-premade ranked warzone matches (when they get introduced). A non-recruit PuG bracket would be a ghost town... everybody would be in the recruit bracket since it would have the highest population availability.

 

And this would be just fine... PvP progression through gear is pointless anyway.

[Echoo]

Someone awhile back stated that there was an equal chance of having recruits on your team. That is always entirely false in reality. Technically on paper it makes sense that would occur. But in reality its always a team of 7+ warheros vs 4 warheros and 4 recruits. If an equal number of recruits were to appear on both teams this wouldn't be an issue. The last 5 warzones I've played have had 3+ recruits on my team that ruined the game every single time due to gear inequality with the opposing full team of warheros. Its gross how imbalanced teams are.

[BigfootNZ]

Ruin it for everyone. Give them their own bracket.

 

Just a question, which 'Sith Happens' are you from?... sure theres millions of em, probably 1 per server, but you wouldnt happen to be from the AP RP server Gav Daragon would you?.

 

If so... is this the reason so many of you Imps have 'vanished' from PvP the last 3 weeks, your all rage quitting from Ques because of all the new 'baddie' Imps queing up for 50's PvP for the first time... is that why where mostly playing Rep v Rep now. No wonder Imps fleets dropped so much if the average players got your attitude towards others (then again All Imp players tend to be a certain 'type' usually, the same as Reps have a certain 'personality ' from what ive seen).

 

A player is a player and regardless of what the have gear wise if they do what they should to help why shouldnt they be in the same match as you?... they've paid there cash. Yeah ripping into a new player and 3 shotting em isnt that fun for both sides (id like a challenge and having been on the recieveing end of the Over Geared Imps for weeks a couple of months back I know what it feels like for the person being 3 shot). Whats next, 'I demand all WH players are segregated from the BM baddies'... please , no.

 

Recruit to BM is a grind, and they have very right to be there, just as you did and I did.

 

And if your from Gav Daragon, please try and foster a damn faction spirit so the new Imp 50's stick around so we can fight you rather than ourselves all the time.

[DenariusJay]

Theres alot of players like me that don't bother to read the forums (although I do now, occasionally) and just play the game. Especially if your an on-again-off-again player like me, who takes extended breaks - alot of information tends to slip through the cracks.

 

I was one of those players that pvp'd in warzones in OJ gear simply because I didn't know any better. I suspect theres alot of fresh 50's that just don't understand expertise and recruit gear, they see there HP drop and there main stats drop and are scared to try it on, thinking it can't be better then there modded Oj 50 gear. I played a ton of war zones off the bat in OJ pve gear slowly getting some BM pieces until someone informed me that I would do better in Recruit gear (an old friend from the SWG days I randomly ran into). The funny thing is during the entire time up to that point, I ran a ton of warzones and no one mentioned that my gear sucked. I ran all those warzones and no one bothered to send me a whisper or say anything in ops chat. Kind of goes to show how alienated the community as a whole is in this game, most people just ignore players and just grind grind grind to get the medals, not offering any tips or suggestions to there teammates to help them out.

 

I blame bioware for that, no server message boards makes it difficult to connect to people in your server and get trained on how to become a better player. If you find fresh 50's in war zones bugging you, become social. Become the solution, send a whisper. Ask if they wanna be better, show them where recruit gear is, invite them to a group. Explain expertise and why its better then main stats in PvP. Its an MMO after all, it doesn't hurt to help a fellow faction member out.

[vimm]

Just a question, which 'Sith Happens' are you from?... sure theres millions of em, probably 1 per server, but you wouldnt happen to be from the AP RP server Gav Daragon would you?.

 

If so... is this the reason so many of you Imps have 'vanished' from PvP the last 3 weeks, your all rage quitting from Ques because of all the new 'baddie' Imps queing up for 50's PvP for the first time... is that why where mostly playing Rep v Rep now. No wonder Imps fleets dropped so much if the average players got your attitude towards others (then again All Imp players tend to be a certain 'type' usually, the same as Reps have a certain 'personality ' from what ive seen).

 

A player is a player and regardless of what the have gear wise if they do what they should to help why shouldnt they be in the same match as you?... they've paid there cash. Yeah ripping into a new player and 3 shotting em isnt that fun for both sides (id like a challenge and having been on the recieveing end of the Over Geared Imps for weeks a couple of months back I know what it feels like for the person being 3 shot). Whats next, 'I demand all WH players are segregated from the BM baddies'... please , no.

 

Recruit to BM is a grind, and they have very right to be there, just as you did and I did.

 

And if your from Gav Daragon, please try and foster a damn faction spirit so the new Imp 50's stick around so we can fight you rather than ourselves all the time.

 

I doubt he's from an RP server.

[Astarica]

There isn't some kind of game-wide conspiracy to put you with the worst possible players on your server while ensuring 8 WHs are ready to stomp on your corpse on the other side. Sure we all get into games like that quite a few times but we sure don't complain about it when the benefit is on our side.

[svartalfimposter]

I can't argue with the OP on this one.

[Pizzel]

Yea it seems there are either a lot of broke people who can' buy recruit gear at 50 or they are just ignorant. Almost every WZ my premade is in there is 1 clown who has less than 600 expertise. Many times it is 0. It is not hard to get 900 expertise in a day.

 

I'm not super serious about pvp in this game but I am at the point I call them out every game now. I am sick of these people contributing nothing to the team but procs for the other side. I like the idea of the tutorial. I almost think the Q shouldnt allow you to Q without 700 expertise or some number. The stat is there for a reason like it or not. But it is not hard to get the gear.

 

Like people are saying. 1 day of dailies and u can have complete set. Any smart pvp person probly can buy 2 BM pieces with saved comms.

[dronepilot]

Rly don't agree with a separate bracket, further diluting the level 50 WZ brackets will make it just longer for people to get a game I would of thought. Look, we all start some where, I remember doing exactly the same thing, when there WASN'T any recruit gear, just Centurion, and Champion gear.

 

I grinded away for those, you guys get basically improved Champ gear for credits, you don't even have to walk into a War Zone. Please spare me the complaining about not being or able to get geared, there is plenty of ways to earn money in the game, do dailies in your PVE gear, and save your money, instead of buying PVE mod upgrades, that are useless to you in PVP and Warzones anyway.

 

Your getting starter gear that is better than the gear I started out with in PVP months ago, no reason for you 'not' to save up and buy your set. Like some one pointed out, you should also already have a decent number of WZ comms saved by then anyway before you even become a fresh 50.

 

I think recruits are fine playing with the rest of us, you get them on both sides, and like the rest of us, they should earn their gear the same way we did, before Recruit gear came along. You want Battlemaster gear, then play and earn it, want War Hero gear, earn your comms and BM gear to get those too.

 

Nope, PVP in PVE gear doesn't seem right to me either, were not playing against the environment, were playing each other, requires a different set of rules and buffs I think. Personally, I think if we were just playing in PVE gear, then you would find people with raid gear face rolling every single wz. So then again, you would have people all trying to 'earn' special PVE gear to use in PVP, because the grind gets you better gear ? - so ok ! now what was the point again in NOT having Expertise ? either way you look at it people are going to grind for the best gear anyway.

 

Leave the bracket as it is anyway !