The most obnoxious class myth perpetuated on these forums

[DimeStax]

Pyro PT spec requires a less then 10m range for its full rotation, and it's outside of 10m range damage is lower then that of a pyro merc and unsustainable. All that awesome elemental damage has a 10m range, and Rail Shot can only be reset by abilities which have a 10m range. I would urge you to not oversell the long range capability of the pyro PT.

 

Other than rocket punch, they have a 4m interrupt, PBAE stun, PBAE Flame Sweep, and frontal cone Flame Thrower: it is a front line class. You should also note that their "gap closer" is on a 45 second cooldown compared to 15 seconds for all other gap closers, as well as subject to target's resolve unlike other gap closers. Just trying to paint you a more accurate picture.

 

If you insist that Pyro PT's are a melee class, let's make Railshot and Rapid Fire 4m range abilities. Then you guys can really be melee. If you have to be 4-10 meters to do your rotation anyway this wouldn't hurt you guys one bit right?

 

Bottom line: You are NOT a melee class. You're damage increases as you play mid to close range, but you are completely able to sustain a DPS rotation at 30m range, just not your OP rotation.

Edited June 18, 2012 by DimeStax

[Seravis]

Pyro PT spec requires a less then 10m range for its full rotation, and it's outside of 10m range damage is lower then that of a pyro merc and unsustainable. All that awesome elemental damage has a 10m range, and Rail Shot can only be reset by abilities which have a 10m range. I would urge you to not oversell the long range capability of the pyro PT.

 

Other than rocket punch, they have a 4m interrupt, PBAE stun, PBAE Flame Sweep, and frontal cone Flame Thrower: it is a front line class. You should also note that their "gap closer" is on a 45 second cooldown compared to 15 seconds for all other gap closers, as well as subject to target's resolve unlike other gap closers. Just trying to paint you a more accurate picture.

 

Powertechs are a "melee" class that can do their full damage outside of melee range. Not using Rocket punch barely drops their damage potential. You can outdamage every class in WZs as a Powertech and NEVER get within melee range of an enemy. I'm not saying Powertechs are overpowered, but they sure as hell aren't a "melee" class.

 

They also have very respectable damage at 30m especially when compared to any other "melee" class, but yes it isn't anywhere near as strong as their 10m damage potential.

[kitsinni]

If you insist that Pyro PT's are a melee class, let's make Railshot and Rapid Fire 4m range abilities. Then you guys can really be melee. If you have to be 4-10 meters to do your rotation anyway this wouldn't hurt you guys one bit right?

 

Bottom line: You are NOT a melee class. You're damage increases as you play mid to close range, but you are completely able to sustain a DPS rotation at 30m range, just not your OP rotation.

 

What DPS rotation do we do at 30m range? Thermal Detonate > DOT > Rail shot > 15 seconds of free attack > repeat .. not exactly what I would call a dps rotation.

 

Simply put we are a hybrid of melee and ranged without the real goodies for melee or ranged specific classes.

[Hethroin]

If you insist that Pyro PT's are a melee class, let's make Railshot and Rapid Fire 4m range abilities. Then you guys can really be melee. If you have to be 4-10 meters to do your rotation anyway this wouldn't hurt you guys one bit right?

 

Rapid fire is a baseline attack with your blaster. DPS operative has the same range. All tech users have this exact attack. I would be fine with restricting CGC procs to be within 10m from this attack, so that you could not use it to apply your DoT'n'Snare from 30m. I would expect a higher proc rate on CGC to make up for this.

 

I would be perfectly fine with Rail Shot turning into a 10m attack for the PT. I would expect a higher delve on the ability, as it would now be restricted further then it already is.

[DarkSideTOR]

HAHA, the designer is the same guy that worked on Warhammer? oh man that explains so much. Bright Wizards are the reason I stopped playing that game. I don't think there's such glaring unbalance in TOR but it looks like they're repeating the same mistakes.

 

They don't do enough testing on toons with WH gear and they think it works just fine, until it doesn't. Maybe BW should hire better PVP designers 'cause this "crack team" is kinda terrible.

 

Get 3 healers, fill the remaining 5 slots with PTs and Maras = fun ranked games!

 

Stopping the use of relics/adrenals burst damage in PVP WILL NOT fix the unbalances. PTs and Maras will still have way better burst than all other classes. You're effectively nerfing burst damage across the board for every class but leaving PTs/Maras untouched or not buffing other under-performing classes still leaves us with OP FOTM classes.

[HurricaneXXIV]

VG's/Pyro are not melee. We have the option of going in and out to attack, you only need to be inside of 10 yards for stock strike or ion. You weeve in and out. If you play this class as a melee class you are toast. We don't need the cool downs of melee classes.

[Hethroin]

Powertechs are a "melee" class that can do their full damage outside of melee range. Not using Rocket punch barely drops their damage potential. You can outdamage every class in WZs as a Powertech and NEVER get within melee range of an enemy. I'm not saying Powertechs are overpowered, but they sure as hell aren't a "melee" class.

 

They also have very respectable damage at 30m especially when compared to any other "melee" class, but yes it isn't anywhere near as strong as their 10m damage potential.

 

You quoted me without reading what I said.

 

So let me repeat:

Other than rocket punch, they have a 4m interrupt, PBAE stun, PBAE Flame Sweep, and frontal cone Flame Thrower: it is a front line class.

 

You cannot call yourself a PVPer if you never use your interrupt, or PBAE stun.

 

There is nothing "respectable" about using 3 15 second cooldowns, and filling in the gap with 9 seconds of 'free attack'.

[ceelaniri]

If you insist that Pyro PT's are a melee class, let's make Railshot and Rapid Fire 4m range abilities. Then you guys can really be melee. If you have to be 4-10 meters to do your rotation anyway this wouldn't hurt you guys one bit right?

 

Bottom line: You are NOT a melee class. You're damage increases as you play mid to close range, but you are completely able to sustain a DPS rotation at 30m range, just not your OP rotation.

 

you are playing on words and being pretty bad at it.

 

Assault PT/VG's mechanism that they get from specialisation requires them to be between 0-10m. (i.e. Ionic Accelerator).

 

As for their toughness, 25% dmg reduction for 12sec on a 120sec CD is hardly uber especially as it does not prevent any CC. That does not make them invulnerable at all.

 

Moreover, kitting (their "other" defensive move) in this game is nigh impossible with the plethora of gap closers & CCs.

[HurricaneXXIV]

Kiting on a pyro is easy, if you don't strafe you will have issue with it. Your interupts are used on classes you want to be in melee on (sages, mercs) and not needed for the class you kite. You have 3-4 ways to help get distance to take advantage of your snare, use them. Mid range class, fight ranged in melee and melee at a range.

[Smashbrother]

An assault vanguard has about the same cds as an assault commando, and let me tell you from playing my commando that we die easily when focus fired.

[LancelotOC]

Gabe used to play a Bright Wizard in Warhammer beta and he played a Pyrotech in Swtor beta. If I'd known it was up to him I would have rolled a Pyr-tech.

[Shadowbolls]

. I see a lot of them not even bother wasting a GCD on their interrupts, cause they know the fight will be over so quick..

 

Interrupts are off the GCD so they don't have to "waste" a GCD. Interrupts are used a lot by Vanguards/Pyrotechs, if you are a Vanguard/Pyrotech and you don't use your interrupt you aren't using a very valuable skill.

[NoTomorrow]

Here is a list of PT Pyro complainers:

1. Marauder Players. They are used to faceroll anyone and they think that if they get into melee they should autowin. Bam! They get decimated by a few good PT.

2. Jug Tanks. They are used to staying alive indefinitely with some classes like MM snipers being an absolute joke against them. The jump on Pyro and they OMG! they lost!

3. Sorcs. They are used to abuse the crap out of hybrid builds taking all sort of goodies from healing and lightning tree that make them elusive as hell. Finally we have a class that can shut them down. Of course they are not happy.

4. Assassins. They are used to win all 1vs1 effortlessly thinking that for some reason its they skill that makes them so good. The jump on PT and get their assses handed to them. OMG! PT is OP!!

 

The only valid complainers are DPS Mercs.

[bglodt]

You see the truth, ive always wanted to make a post about it. I play an assault vanguard along with my sage and, while they certainly dont have tank or marauder survivability, they have roughly the same (or even more survivability) that the other dps specced ACs (dps juggs, dps operatives, snipers, dps sins, etc).

 

The myth that pyrotechs are squishy is spread around by bad pyrotech players that cant play their class and want to stand toe to toe with a marauder ravaging them.

 

One of the most geared pyrotechs in these forums released a video not long time ago, hes a backpedaller, he also thinks degauss is useless in pvp and claims that a heavy armor class with a dmg reduction CD is a glass cannon.

 

Go figure.

 

Powertechs are making bad players look good. Even marauders need more skill to dish out their damage (they have to stay on top of their targets) while pyros can unleash everything they have while backpedalling at a safe 10m range and keep people snared 90% of the time because their slow is BLEND into their two spammable attacks (hammer shot and ion pulse/flame burst).

 

And NO, YOU DONT GO OUT OF AMMO IF YOU SPAM ION PULSE, you do go out of ammo if you spam INCENDIARY ROUND, and you should never spam incendiary round unless as an opener (to avoid false HiB proc) or when the target is out of 10m range.

 

Damn pyrotechs are stupid enough mess up with a 3 button rotation and go out of ammo. Faceroll class makes facerolling players.

 

Im sorry about the real skilled ptechs out there, i know some of you guys rock and i pay /respect to anyone that master their class. But the fact that backpedalling/going out of ammo/zero protection scores players are out there killing people is bad for the game and for your own class, really.

 

You are right.... Spamming ion pulse I never go out of power. Why? Because of my 36 point talent called endless ammo. What you don't have one? No kidding? Well I'll tell you that 36 point talent is what makes the class playable. You should try to reroll and try the 31/31/36 spec I roll. It is awesome!

[DimeStax]

Rapid fire is a baseline attack with your blaster. DPS operative has the same range. All tech users have this exact attack. I would be fine with restricting CGC procs to be within 10m from this attack, so that you could not use it to apply your DoT'n'Snare from 30m. I would expect a higher proc rate on CGC to make up for this.

 

I would be perfectly fine with Rail Shot turning into a 10m attack for the PT. I would expect a higher delve on the ability, as it would now be restricted further then it already is.

 

No, you're missing the point. You're a melee class remember, so you don't use those abilities at 30m range anyway. So you get absolutely nothing for changing them to close range abilities.

 

What damage rotation from 30m? Um, maybe: Thermal Detonator, Rail Shot,Unload, Rapid Shots (as a filler to keep heat cost down), Death From Above, Tranq Dart, Incendiary Missle, Your Pull... rinse and repeat with Rapid Shots mixed in between in order to keep heat cost down. It's not your OP rotation but it definitely works just fine for a 30m range rotation while you're closing the gap to get to your OP mid/short range. Nope, not buying the melee spec BS at all.

Edited June 18, 2012 by DimeStax

[masterbason]

reroll a marauder or a tanksin and be happy!

 

everyday I saw a thread of a op class... maras/sentinels, tanksins, vanguards/pt, operative/smuggler...

 

I've been seen juggs hitting 6k+

I see everyday sorcs/sages been the top dmg

My friend is a commando and won a 1v1 against a PT and he ins't full bm

...

 

So... what is the point here? again...

Edited June 18, 2012 by masterbason

[Seravis]

You quoted me without reading what I said.

 

So let me repeat:

 

 

You cannot call yourself a PVPer if you never use your interrupt, or PBAE stun.

 

There is nothing "respectable" about using 3 15 second cooldowns, and filling in the gap with 9 seconds of 'free attack'.

 

Pyrotechs have a single damage skill with 9 second CD, and it can easily be replaced by flame burst for a minimal damage loss. So they have almost 0 reason to be in melee to do damage.

 

The only real reason to go into melee is to land their interrupt or aoe stun, and after they do so they IMMEDIATELY leave melee range because it puts them in range of everyone else's melee range CC.

 

So any "respectable" Pyrotech only goes into melee for half a second to stun or interrupt and then immediately goes back to 10m.

 

You know what other Class does full damage outside of melee, but has half their utility melee range only? Snipers. Pyrotechs are as much a melee class as Snipers are.

[Hethroin]

You know what other Class does full damage outside of melee, but has half their utility melee range only? Snipers. Pyrotechs are as much a melee class as Snipers are.

 

Maybe in a game where 10 = 35.

 

I do like this comparison, as the sniper does have similar damage reduction cooldowns, and an additional anti-CC cooldown. All while operating at 25m longer range.

[DimeStax]

Maybe in a game where 10 = 35.

 

I do like this comparison, as the sniper does have similar damage reduction cooldowns, and an additional anti-CC cooldown. All while operating at 25m longer range.

 

Even 10m ain't melee bro.

[HurricaneXXIV]

If you can hit melee and melee can't hit you then you aren't in melee range.

[matslarson]

Here is a list of PT Pyro complainers:

1. Marauder Players. They are used to faceroll anyone and they think that if they get into melee they should autowin. Bam! They get decimated by a few good PT.

2. Jug Tanks. They are used to staying alive indefinitely with some classes like MM snipers being an absolute joke against them. The jump on Pyro and they OMG! they lost!

3. Sorcs. They are used to abuse the crap out of hybrid builds taking all sort of goodies from healing and lightning tree that make them elusive as hell. Finally we have a class that can shut them down. Of course they are not happy.

4. Assassins. They are used to win all 1vs1 effortlessly thinking that for some reason its they skill that makes them so good. The jump on PT and get their assses handed to them. OMG! PT is OP!!

 

The only valid complainers are DPS Mercs.

 

Anyone else notice that this guy opened by saying PTs are an excellent counter to every class in the game and closed by saying they're not OP? lol

 

Translation: scissors can beat paper, rock, and other scissors, but it's not OP cause it lost once to a better pair of scissors.

Edited June 18, 2012 by matslarson

[DarkSideTOR]

reroll a marauder or a tanksin and be happy!

 

everyday I saw a thread of a op class... maras/sentinels, tanksins, vanguards/pt, operative/smuggler...

 

I've been seen juggs hitting 6k+

I see everyday sorcs/sages been the top dmg

My friend is a commando and won a 1v1 against a PT and he ins't full bm

...

 

So... what is the point here? again...

 

You don't go into specifics there I see. Well I can hit for 12k Demo Rounds... on Fabricator. See what I did there?

No, I don't want to spend my time rolling a new FOTM class because of BWs incompetence to balance classes. Either nerf their damage to our level or buff ours to theirs.

 

I'm guessing the 6k hit from a Jugg you're referring to is Force Sweep/Smash? Yeah it's on a 12s CD, it's about the only time Juggs can deal significant damage in PVP, take that away from them and you might as well replace their light saber with a wet noodle.

 

Yes Sorcs/Sages can deal tons of damage in AE-centric fights, like Voidstar/Alderaan. That's when I see them top the damage charts more often. Not saying they don't hit hard against single targets but their strength is on AE damage.

 

I beat marauders all the time... does that mean Commandos are fine? no. They're mostly under-geared players so nothing to boast about. I routinely face a couple of WH geared Watchman spec'd Sentinels and... it ends badly. every. time. There simply is no amount of L2p that will allow me to beat them. Cauterize crit ticks hit waaay too hard, and it heals them on top of it. Granted not by much but over the course of a match I've seen these guys get anywhere between 60-90k healing, yes a pure dps class doing over 60k passive healing...

 

 

Your argument that your friend beat your neighbor's cousin's roomate on his commando is supposed to be evidence that PTs are fine? I have a full WH commando and against similarly geared Vanguards I don't stand a chance. They fire HIB a lot faster and hit way harder with it than I can. It's a dps race fight, if I try to cleanse their DoTs off me that's one GCD that I'm not using to kill them, if I ignore their DoTs I'm giving them focus and taking elemental damage ticks. lose lose situation.

[Hethroin]

If you can hit melee and melee can't hit you then you aren't in melee range.

This is partially true in a 1v1. Yes, a good PT can kite a pure melee for about 40-60% of the fight depending on duration.

 

However when you translate 10m range into a warzone environment there is very little difference from an exposure perspective. You have to be close enough to the enemy to be exposed to their backline ranged fire. Having played both the sentinel and the vanguard, I will not argue that it's much harder to kite (or rather delay the damage from) the vanguard, but at the same time the vanguard is not in any safer DPS location than the sentinel. In order to use all your tools, you have to be up close. For all intents and purposes, the pyro is a melee class in warzones (and in duels against ranged classes).

[Astarica]

This is partially true in a 1v1. Yes, a good PT can kite a pure melee for about 40-60% of the fight depending on duration.

 

However when you translate 10m range into a warzone environment there is very little difference from an exposure perspective. You have to be close enough to the enemy to be exposed to their backline ranged fire. Having played both the sentinel and the vanguard, I will not argue that it's much harder to kite (or rather delay the damage from) the vanguard, but at the same time the vanguard is not in any safer DPS location than the sentinel. In order to use all your tools, you have to be up close. For all intents and purposes, the pyro is a melee class in warzones (and in duels against ranged classes).

 

It's more like 10m isn't enough to get you away from overlapping 4m melee radius. For example as a Tankasin I can comfortably keep >4m against most melee. But suppose there are two Tankasin versus melee matchup going on, we both maintain >4m on our target, but the other guy we're not targetting might easily walk to within 4m of the other Tankasin. At that point these guys should switch target since being able to hit someone is always better than not being able to hit anyone, so although we can kite our primary target, we might not actually avoid melee damage very often, because good melee should switch to the closest available target whenever they're being kited as that is always better than not being able to do damage at all.

[SinnedWill]

Here is a list of PT Pyro complainers:

1. Marauder Players. They are used to faceroll anyone and they think that if they get into melee they should autowin. Bam! They get decimated by a few good PT.

2. Jug Tanks. They are used to staying alive indefinitely with some classes like MM snipers being an absolute joke against them. The jump on Pyro and they OMG! they lost!

3. Sorcs. They are used to abuse the crap out of hybrid builds taking all sort of goodies from healing and lightning tree that make them elusive as hell. Finally we have a class that can shut them down. Of course they are not happy.

4. Assassins. They are used to win all 1vs1 effortlessly thinking that for some reason its they skill that makes them so good. The jump on PT and get their assses handed to them. OMG! PT is OP!!

 

The only valid complainers are DPS Mercs.

 

1.) My marauder is carnage - it's squishy as balls, quit comparing your 120s energy shield cooldown, (which can be used roughly every 1 minute on average if you have 2 points in energy rebounder - sometimes longer, sometimes shorter - depends on enemy class composition primarily) to my marauder using all of my defensive cooldowns to stay alive briefly (which is still typically shorter windows of survival compared to my pyro p-tech even when my marauder has EVERYTHING off cooldown). P-techs also have kolto overload for survivability (funny how noone remembers this, likely due to the 3m cooldown - which can again be shortened if talented, though I don't have that with my spec - but certainly saves my pryo's *** when I pop it ~50% health so as to avoid getting hit by execution moves). The marauder spec that benefits significantly from its activated defensives is annihilation due to self-healing being far more effective when taking reduced damage values (or no damage at all).

 

2.) Don't have a jugg, so no comment on the receiving end, but yes, they're laughable at how easily they die if you know their spec and when/how to use your abilities on them as a pyro p-tech.

 

3.) My sorcerer is madness specced - most of my damage will ignore your armor (DoT's, Deathfield) - it excels at countering heavy armored classes of all specs, but pyro p-techs get a LOT of energy shield cooldown reduction from DoT's and the DoT's are very weak (ticks that crit deal ~600 tops against any equally geared player-with a consular/inquisitor buff- that DOESN'T have a talent to reduce DoT damage - those specs tend to take ~450 per crit). Lets just be honest - pyro p-techs burn all sorcerer/sage specs.

 

4.) Tankassins really lack any specific class/spec they're consistantly vulnerable to (I'd honestly say that my 31/2/8 tankassin wins consistantly against most pyro powertechs in 1v1 situations, and it's a toss-up as to who wins if it's a VERY GOOD pyro p-tech player that knows when to effectively use his abilities to make each attack actually hit -i.e. doesn't waste flame burst/t-detonator when shroud is up, saves railshot/rocket punch when deflection is up, stealth scans me the moment I use force cloak - but many pyro p-techs seem to either be bad or have gotten very lazy since it has become increasingly rare to see these smart ones). On my pyro p-tech, yes, there certainly aren't many intelligent tankassins either (many will pop shroud + deflection at the same time or force cloak while shroud is on cooldown despite the fact that I have CGC DoT on them).

 

All-in-all, I usually run my pyro p-tech with 2 other pyro-techs - and we can SHRED larger groups of enemies (much of our survivability comes from staggering our taunts, focus-firing, chain-stunning, and killing far more efficiently/quickly than our enemies). Basically, a pack of GOOD pyro p-techs/assault VG's beats everything right now (albeit, assassin packs certainly perform nicely as well) and it gets very interesting when you face an enemy group that employs the same tactics.