Healers are fine. Perfectly fine. In fact probably a little more than fine.

[ProfessorWalsh]

I don't see any reference to the 4 you can't remember off the top of your head, so you probably edited the post to simply read "there are other issues", but regardless, you listed 3 others. Where's 4?

 

I can agree with number 1, though it's a tiny difference. No idea about Warrior talents. I can add a fourth if you really want though, and that's Spinning Strike's (Shadow execute) delay that sometimes gets it canceled for some reason. It's not a backstab move, so I don't know why it would fail other than not having the Force to use it, but my guess is they run out of range while you wave your saber over your head like a *******.

 

Definitely not cool.

 

That is a stutter issue. Same thing that comes up for a lot of melee moves that have an animation around .5 seconds or longer. I could add a few others if I need to. There is one, I can't recall the power name, I can look it up if need be but the Empire's version has a 60 second CD and the Reps has a 90 second CD.

[maticlandarr]

Wait theres a mirrored ability with different CDs for each faction? I find this hard to believe, as i havent seen a single complaint thread about it. And we all know there would be a bunch if that were the case.

[Daiyukie]

wait theres a mirrored ability with different cds for each faction? I find this hard to believe, as i havent seen a single complaint thread about it. And we all know there would be a bunch if that were the case.

 

.qft.

[ProfessorWalsh]

Wait theres a mirrored ability with different CDs for each faction? I find this hard to believe, as i havent seen a single complaint thread about it. And we all know there would be a bunch if that were the case.

 

People were up in arms with it for the longest time. It was finally addressed around 3 months after release.

[matslarson]

There is one, I can't recall the power name, I can look it up if need be but the Empire's version has a 60 second CD and the Reps has a 90 second CD.

 

I assume you're referring to the Smuggler's Flash Bang which was reduced to the same 60 second CD as the Imperial mirror...in patch 1.1

[maticlandarr]

People were up in arms with it for the longest time. It was finally addressed around 3 months after release.

 

Oh so there WAS a mirrored ability with different CDs etcetc

 

Either i misread or someone mistyped. Id go back to check but dont rly care. This thread has almost reached a high enough pettiness threshold as it is.

[Daiyukie]

I assume you're referring to the Smuggler's Flash Bang which was reduced to the same 60 second CD as the Imperial mirror...in patch 1.1

 

Really? So more dinosaur bones? Jeez Walsh, you're on a roll !

[ProfessorWalsh]

Really? So more dinosaur bones? Jeez Walsh, you're on a roll !

 

You are really enjoying trying to troll me aren't you?

[Daiyukie]

You are really enjoying trying to troll me aren't you?

 

But you're doing it to yourself. Trolls just kind of spout off and make **** up; I'm responding directly to things you misinterpret and things you say. It's hilarious, actually.

[ProfessorWalsh]

But you're doing it to yourself. Trolls just kind of spout off and make **** up; I'm responding directly to things you misinterpret and things you say. It's hilarious, actually.

 

Well. You can have your fun. I wash my hands of you. You are on ignore. You won't see me respond to you again.

[Daiyukie]

Aww Walshie, don't be like that. You can change, I promise you can change!

[Kophar]

Sorcerers and Merc's healers plain and simple cant cope 1v1 for a decent amount of time for even make a difference in a WZ.

How tha hack can we cope with all those OP melee classes that can interrupt me, knockback me, charge me etc??!?!?!?!?

The only way i can survive is just run from them but if i am being chased by an experience pvp player he will never let me rest. Guess what, my CC's sooner or later will enter in the immunity phase and i will have between escape routes put up 1-2 healing spells if im lucky and he will just keep chasing me for eternity while all the time causing havoc to my HP.

Healers arent fine at all in this game's PvP, WAKE UP!!

Also, why in hack do i have to be allready nerfed in the general healing bonus in comparison with the bonus damage and again be screwed up on the PvP healing bonus in comparison with the PvP Damage bonus????!! It just dont make any sense whatsoever.

Healers atm unless u are an operative that u can vanish are pretty much screwed up 1v1 in every pvp aspect of the game, specially vs all melee classes that plain and simple are just too OP. Im 2 pieces away from full battlemaster and still 1 jugger, marauder or operative (or equivalent classes on rep side) will creep me to hell in max 10-15secs with equivalent gear if im just undefended by my teammates.

I know that WZ's is a teamwork but things cant be seen completelly like this, healers must be able to stand toe to toe in terms of longevity 1v1 with any other class when the gear is comparable and atm IT ISNT.

BW needs to fix this.

[maticlandarr]

Well. You can have your fun. I wash my hands of you. You are on ignore. You won't see me respond to you again.

 

 

I have to admit i really enjoy when people use this line. Its sort of the equivalent of an angry gf calling you up to tell you shes not speaking to you.

 

I get this horrible guilty pleasure out of waiting to see if the guy who says hes done responding is actually done responding.

[AlyxDinas]

I have to admit i really enjoy when people use this line. Its sort of the equivalent of an angry gf calling you up to tell you shes not speaking to you.

 

It's really just a public bit of acting. So he can pretend he has morals or "taken the high road". One assumes it is a tactic to make him feel better about fleeing. But it's a trick. A parachute pull in the face of dissenting opinions. It lets him stay inside the bubble world where there's no scary differences of thought from his own. And the funniest thing about it is that he believes people care to know who he's ignoring or not.

 

No one does.

 

PS. You'll notice that he also did his best, in the face of overwhelming argumentation against his assessment of trauma and its effect, to turn the conversation into one about Imperial and Republic mirror classes but seizing upon a toss away comment. He hasn't posted anything relevant about healers really for two pages.

Edited June 24, 2012 by AlyxDinas

[spaace]

I think it's more of a SWTOR community knowing how to play (and the haters/bads eventually quit)

 

Think about it... When you play other MMOs, for instance, 90% of the time if you're a healer you can just sit somewhere free cast because there's 10, 15, 40... in a match. If you're lucky you'll have people save you or see you. With so many people, its more of survival mode..

 

Here, there is 8. smaller fights, easier to be noticed. (if/when people pay attention, you can actually SEE CASTING BARS AND HEALTH POOLS of other players.) If there's a 4 on 4 fight, you notice somebody healing and want to kill him... your team also notices this (hopefully) and saves you.. well, because they need you.

 

 

If you really want, you can compare our warzones to WoW's rated battlegrounds... except here, "tanks" actually have a use in PVP. google some high 2600+ rbgs, and watch how they play.. you might learn a thing or two, even if is not the same game.

[borhiis]

Play a sorcerer, we need buffed.

 

 

Healers in TOR are 100% fine.

 

I've been PVP'ing all day against "supposedly nerfed healers" and when played properly they are fine. In fact today felt almost like pre 1.2 as I wailed and wailed away on healers that (1) Could not be interrupted, and (2) could vanish whenever they needed to in order to escape. Sometimes we had 2 or 3 people on one healer and the healer wasn't going down, of course they had other healers healing them but that is how it is supposed to be.

 

Are healers overpowered? Am I calling for a nerf?

 

Not really.

 

Darn frustrating. Enough to make me decide to stop PVP'ing for the night, but I wouldn't say overpowered or in need of a nerf. I would say in some situational circumstances some healers are overpowered. I would say that healing in Huttball is a bit on the overpowered side but I wouldn't say they need to be nerfed.

 

They absolutely don't need to be buffed.

 

Already games are decided more or less on which team has the most operative/scoundrel healers. Anyone who thinks that healers need help simply needs to play some PVP with some good players and they need to make friends with tanks. Not once today was I able to solo a healer and I was finishing games with 600,000 damage dealt out. So no healers... You are fine... Perfectly fine.

[fungihoujo]

No. You are simply ignorant and are trying to twist the situation.

 

Everyone loses 30% of their healing just for entering PVP. We all know this. Yes, this means that everyone is at 70% of their healing in PVP compared to PVE. However when we are just considering PVP that is their base 100%

 

That is the constant of PVP and thus is 100% of PVP healing. You can't keep harping on your PVE numbers because your PVE numbers have never mattered in PVP. That -30% off of your PVE healing is 100% of your PVP healing.

 

No, you are twisting the situation by constantly ignoring anything that doesn't suit you.

 

A WH healer is at 85% of their BASE healing- because BASE means just that, BASE. In pvp they suffer a 30% trauma debuff, which is mitigated by 15 so they end up with 85% of their BASE healing while in pvp.

 

DPS get a 30% buff to their base damage in pvp- so ultimately, healers end up at 85% of their base, and DPS at 130% of their base while in pvp gear.

 

If 70% was actually our base. But since that's 100%, if I were to get a 15% increase to healing from expertise, it'd be 115%- but, 115% of 70% is actually 80.5%- so if what you were saying was true, then in WH gear healers are actually healing 80.5% of their base pve healing. A pve heal would be 5k, a pvp heal 4k rather than 4.25k. So if what you are saying it true- then your deadly throw is actually more effective since it would increase trauma by 20%- dropping healing to 60.5% rather than 65% of base pve healing.

 

What you are trying to insist is that expertise for healers actually scales very poorly.

Edited June 24, 2012 by fungihoujo

[matslarson]

No, you are twisting the situation by constantly ignoring anything that doesn't suit you.

 

A WH healer is at 85% of their BASE healing- because BASE means just that, BASE. In pvp they suffer a 30% trauma debuff, which is mitigated by 15 so they end up with 85% of their BASE healing while in pvp.

 

DPS get a 30% buff to their base damage in pvp- so ultimately, healers end up at 85% of their base, and DPS at 130% of their base while in pvp gear.

 

If 70% was actually our base. But since that's 100%, if I were to get a 15% increase to healing from expertise, it'd be 115%- but, 115% of 70% is actually 80.5%- so if what you were saying was true, then in WH gear healers are actually healing 80.5% of their base pve healing. A pve heal would be 5k, a pvp heal 4k rather than 4.25k. So if what you are saying it true- then your deadly throw is actually more effective since it would increase trauma by 20%- dropping healing to 60.5% rather than 65% of base pve healing.

 

What you are trying to insist is that expertise for healers actually scales very poorly.

 

It's really a shame Walsh is ignoring all arguments against him now...I'd really like to see what he'd have to say in the face of such overwhelming logic and factual accuracy..

[AlyxDinas]

It's really a shame Walsh is ignoring all arguments against him now...I'd really like to see what he'd have to say in the face of such overwhelming logic and factual accuracy..

 

If past precedent is any indication, he will propose the existence of a cartel of detractors who are factually incorrect and choose to attack him for no other reason than it's him. Instead of considering that when people disagree with him, it's because the simply think he's wrong. Or in this case, know.

Edited June 24, 2012 by AlyxDinas

[Seravis]

I think healers are in a decent spot right now. Though they might need abit of tweaking so that all 3 healers are roughly equal.

 

They are weak enough that the game isn't a giant healfest where noone dies.

 

They are strong enough that you need 2-3 of them at a minimum to be competitive.

 

 

 

When I PVP I want **** to die. Whether it is me or my enemies. I DON'T want to have games with sides having 10 million damage done and 4 kills.

[Superawesomerman]

If past precedent is any indication, he will propose the existence of a cartel of detractors who are factually incorrect and choose to attack him for no other reason than it's him. Instead of considering that when people disagree with him, it's because the simply think he's wrong. Or in this case, know.

 

Hey, someone gotta fill that role now that renegadeimp is gone!

[ProfessorWalsh]

If past precedent is any indication, he will propose the existence of a cartel of detractors who are factually incorrect and choose to attack him for no other reason than it's him. Instead of considering that when people disagree with him, it's because the simply think he's wrong. Or in this case, know.

 

In this case I'll blatantly say AlyxDinas - I don't consider the "base" 30% debuff healers get just for joining PVP to exist. That isn't something that has ever effected them. It simply means that the game has a different healing scale for PVP and that is not part of the equation as it has always and will always be this. They aren't losing 30% of their healing in PVP because they never had that 30% in PVP to begin with.

 

But if you want to start splitting hair on this issue then...

 

Sentinels need a buff. We are robbed of several of our abilities in PVP. Some of our abilities cannot be used at all in fact. We have entire powers that are totally denied to us in PVP.

[AlyxDinas]

In this case I'll blatantly say AlyxDinas - I don't consider the "base" 30% debuff healers get just for joining PVP to exist.

 

Well, it does. We can do all the semantics that we want. We can say that there's a "PvP 100%" and a "PvE/Open World 100%" but it doesn't change the fact that the former is 30% less than the latter. It does have an effect. We can argue if the effect is significant but we cannot argue that the effect exists. Because that's not really true.

 

Sentinels need a buff. We are robbed of several of our abilities in PVP. Some of our abilities cannot be used at all in fact. We have entire powers that are totally denied to us in PVP.

 

If you want to discuss this, you're getting towards something a bit more reasonable. Although, I cannot say that I've ever lost an encounter because of my Marauder doesn't get to use Pommel Strike often.

[Gingerizhere]

But what about the huge green beam spewing from a commando's assault cannon? If that isn't a target on your target on your head that screams, " Oh! Oh! Over here! Kill me I am healing!" Than I don't know what is.

[fungihoujo]

In this case I'll blatantly say AlyxDinas - I don't consider the "base" 30% debuff healers get just for joining PVP to exist. That isn't something that has ever effected them. It simply means that the game has a different healing scale for PVP and that is not part of the equation as it has always and will always be this. They aren't losing 30% of their healing in PVP because they never had that 30% in PVP to begin with.

 

But if you want to start splitting hair on this issue then...

 

Sentinels need a buff. We are robbed of several of our abilities in PVP. Some of our abilities cannot be used at all in fact. We have entire powers that are totally denied to us in PVP.

 

Just because healers have always had to deal with a 30% nerf doesn't mean it's not there genius. Frankly, nobody cares if YOU don't believe there's a trauma debuff- because everyone else knows there is, the mechanics prove that there is, and it's a fact that there is- and if we were to use your equation for how trauma works we get the wrong numbers from if we use the ACTUAL equation, as I just proved.

 

I gotta give it to you though- I never thought anyone would be crazy enough to start asking for marauder buffs- but you've really done a number on these forums.

 

Are you playing bizzaro SWTOR or something? Asking for buffs to the most OP class in the game- that's downright hilarious. Really, you made me laugh. At this point I can't even consider you to be writing these things with a straight face because there is no way anyone who is playing this game right now could say the things you are saying.

 

Then again- you've done an impressive job proving over and over again that you have missed almost every change since patch 1.1- are you still playing the base game as it launched or something?

 

And by 'base' game I naturally mean, the game when it was 70% into the beta process- since that's what base means these days.