Neoforcer Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 I'd be very happy if they just removed our self healing completely and brought our mitigation UP to where Jugs and PTs are. We're barely at 40% in full Campaign, PTs are pushing 54%. Think a lot of shadow and sin would of been happy with that did they over nerf the class yes will they admit that no why because that mean they were wrong in there thinking in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andex Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Character/guild info in signature. We're working on last 10% of HM Kephess. Have done 16s, but until they fix all the lag and disconnects on POT5, we're sticking with multiple 8 mans. You're criticizing others for belittling when that's exactly what you did to everyone else with your previous post. Your post basically summarized to "I'm doing it fine, QQ more". Most points in the thread are valid, we were over-nerfed and in the wrong areas at that. Are we still able to tank endgame? Yes, going back to EC HM tonight. However, as already mentioned, 14 augments and PVP relics helped somewhat offset the nerf for us, while being a pure boost for Jugs and PTs. It doesn't change the fact that the other two tanks do it even better. It also doesn't change the fact that we're the most susceptible tank to bad RNG, due to our low passive mitigation. You bring up a couple of abilities in EC as if that proves that defense and shields work on everything. BW themselves admitted that they've included far too much force and tech damage in ops which ignores avoidance stats. Yet when they did their "balancing", they did it based on imaginary numbers that they came up with in their lab, ignoring the fact that our primary defenses are completely ignored in many encounters. Kephess is a great example of a boss that loves to use force attacks that do kinetic damage, and he also happens to be the hardest hitting boss currently in game. That's where our mitigation lagging 13% behind the other two tanks (60% vs 47% of dmg taken is a 27.7% higher damage intake) is really showing, and using Jugs and PTs is a clear advantage. Not to mention our self-healing is next to useless in that fight. I'd be very happy if they just removed our self healing completely and brought our mitigation UP to where Jugs and PTs are. We're barely at 40% in full Campaign, PTs are pushing 54%. I didn't belittle him. I told him to educate himself. All he's done in this thread is make posts with no support behind them what-so-ever. I provided a link which proves that this extreme misunderstanding as to the type of damage you encounter in EC is being used as a bandwagon, not a fact. You're condescending tone is belittling. In fact, if you want to, you can probably somehow manage to point out that everyone is belittling everyone else. My point was directly related to his previous posts attempting to debunk anyone else's point of view with simply throwing the words "16M HM EC" into his post. Someone took the time to prove that we're not bad tanks and we're not the worst tanks. Instead of jumping onto the back of the cart with everyone else, maybe you should really look into it, first, instead of relying on what someone else tells you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorrvask Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 (edited) If u immortals are clearing the EC HM so regularly, that mean u are walking around BH mods and Campaign gear....which u farmed most probably before the nerf.... We, bare mortals, trying to do that stuff with combination of Rakatas and Columi gear.... Please wear again u Rakata and Columi gear and tell ur impressions again then.... Well, last night we did 3/4 HM EC (two guild firsts), short a tank so I jumped on my Assassin alt, recent Assassin alt that is, in all Columi, and 2 BH implants, and tanked 3/4 HM EC......and we are going back on monday night to attempt Kephiss. Our other tank was an Assassin, mostly Rakata/BH but 0 Campaign, infact in our 8 man group there was only 2 dps with maybe 1 or 2 peices of Campaign gear, Marauder and Juggernaut. So if I was able to tank that in such low gear, after the "nerfs", and my healers were able to keep me alive, both of which were half rakata/columi, then what does that say? I now have quite an unusual spread of gear, 4/5 columi....with 2 peices of Campaign, absent any Rakata. I consider myself a bare mortal, people like you, and half the people in this thread, are blowing these nerfs and gear requirements out of proportion. Edited July 6, 2012 by Jorrvask Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okamakiri Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 (edited) Someone took the time to prove that we're not bad tanks and we're not the worst tanks. Instead of jumping onto the back of the cart with everyone else, maybe you should really look into it, first, instead of relying on what someone else tells you. I don't rely on what someone else tells me, I rely on raw log data. All the napkin math in the world is worthless next to hard data proof. If you're referring to the thread you linked, I looked at it long ago, the stats are flawed, and I already called him out on it. Calculating biased stats based on BH geared Sin and Rakata geared Jug, not even including a PT, not including the hardest hitting boss in game, not including cooldowns to survive predictable damage spikes = flawed results. Even Bioware themselves admits to Operations having more than intended amount of damage that is not defend-able, and is planning on re-evaluating how shields work. But going by their record, who knows when that will be and how long we'll have to limp along until then. Edited July 6, 2012 by Okamakiri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okamakiri Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 So if I was able to tank that in such low gear, after the "nerfs", and my healers were able to keep me alive, both of which were half rakata/columi, then what does that say? I now have quite an unusual spread of gear, 4/5 columi....with 2 peices of Campaign, absent any Rakata. It means you have excellent healers. Let me know how HM Kephess goes for your Columi geared tanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neoforcer Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 those that say blowing these nerfs out of proportion. Have no clue what this nerf has done to sin/shadows in the first place. Claiming there operation went just fine with healers that are above average in the first place and try to belittle others over the nerf have not looked in to any raw data from in game combat logs. The sin/shadows right now are taking more damage then other tanks and even bioware says are shield is not working liked they want it to. If this game is supposed to be balanced and because of over nerfs one tank class takes more damage then the other then there is a problem that needs to be addressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theonepanda Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Well this thread kinda depressed me. It seems that like in most games, straight up mitigation is much preferable to the kinda hybrid heals/active tanking model that assassins bring. Have any of you looked into logs as to assassin tank damage though? While we all strive for maximum mitigation there is no point to tanking in a vacuum; the point is to bring down the boss, -with- the entire raid in mind, and so if you can live (maybe taking a bit more damage) but dps faster, it might be worthwhile. Shrug. I've been out of the loop too long. (Also I'm back =D...but playing a sage for now ._.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tXHereticXt Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 (edited) I'd be very happy if they just removed our self healing completely and brought our mitigation UP to where Jugs and PTs are. We're barely at 40% in full Campaign, PTs are pushing 54%. I disagree. Self Healing is apart of our mitigation because we don't have the CDs that further increase our armor so every hit that passed our Shields and Defense would go through for the full damage (apart from the armor boosts we get in our tree). If healing was the problem, healing should have been nerfed and not our armor. If our armor was the problem then our heals shouldn't have been touched. Honestly, I would say that if our armor was as big of an issue as the devs claimed - our heals could have gotten a 2% boost. Did HM EV and HM Karagga while tanking most fights just fine. That is to say I could feel our healers (who happens to be sorcerers and already have a problem balancing energy in extended fights) working hard - they were still successes none the less. So the nerf was excessive and unnecessary in it's current form. I'm all for balance if it's done intelligently and considering the devs have acknowledged the problem with Force/Tech going through Shields/Defense - a problem still exists that wasn't involved in this balancing patch. Edited July 10, 2012 by tXHereticXt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallerup Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 So we all know that our beloved tankassin has been brutally beaten with the nerf bat. We've complained that ts excessive and promised not to be so strong in pvp, but they did it anyways. Unfortunately, this affected us even harder in PvE. With pvp, we have hybrid or burst alternatives to darkness that can be really effective. My question now is: Are we relevant in PvE? How do we stay relevant when there are both better tanks and better dps out there, no matter how we spec? What is the most optimal spec now? one of our main tanks in Denova HM, which we cleared yesterday, is an assassin, the other a juggernaut, so yes, they are still very viable. But you gonna change the way you play them slightly I assume, some tanksin player can tell you if what I'm saying is true or not, if its not then I apologize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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