There are profitable and succesful MMO's that have less then 10k subs.

[gabarooni]

Swtors last census was 1,400,000 subs. Really take a minute and look at those numbers kids. This game would be huge if it only had 100,000 subs. You have to stop thinking MMO's need millions and millions of subs to be succesful cause that is simply not true. WoW hit a peak in the industry it was a fad it happens...look at Chia pets and the Pet Rock lol. Every mmo that comes out chips at wow's numbers and so does simple boredom. I doubt any MMO ever is going to achieve the 12 million mark that blizz did with wow cause that was just a fad and the fad is over.

 

So if your not happy playing swtor with Just hundreds of thousands of other people then I don't know what to tell you. Me I like the game so im going to play it, it really couldnt matter less to me what other people like because I don't make my video game decisions on what type of game everyone else enjoys lol.

[Raumin]

So if your not happy playing swtor with Just hundreds of thousands of other people then I don't know what to tell you. .

 

Name one person in swtor that is playing with a 100,000 other people. I can name lot's of people that play with closer to 10 on dead servers various times throughout the day.

[Aerevan]

I'm sure those successful and profitable MMO's didn't have a triple A budget that has to be earned back.

[LovarBoy]

As I mentioned in the other thread you posted that:

 

 

BioWare officially announced that they need ~ 500.000 subs to be profitable.

 

 

That's a big big big big big big difference to all these other MMOs.

 

Triple AAA + Insane Budget + Tremendous Licence Costs - that's the problem.

[Kalfear]

lol somehow I doubt those 10,000 sub MMORPGs have the budget or investor expectations that is expected from TOR.

 

This is just like all those who dont know better that say "Well WOW has limited F2P option so its good for TOR" but refuse to understand WOW didnt goto that option until 3+ years after release.

 

What another game does, doesnt mean its the same for TOR.

 

Even EA devs have admitted TOR needs 500k to break even.

 

So I fail to see how some MMO with 10k subs is relevant to this discussion

 

PS: My server 4 months ago was heavy to full load

last month I have not seen more then 15 people at any time of day at any location

Most locations are 1-4 players per planet

So Id disagree with assumption I get to play with 100s of 1000s.

Edited June 10, 2012 by Kalfear

[jgelling]

Except there's a big difference: the Star Wars IP costs a lot of money. There were rumors of 35% royalty, but you can be sure there are certain minimum payments in the contract, etc. BW might still have a total team of 200-250 people on the game, and there are server costs, and a huge difference between a game that's being developed and one that isn't.

 

The game wouldn't be fine with 10k subs - it's a well-known fact EA themselves have told their investors that about 500k is their business case for viability. Since public companies are held liable for those types of financial projections you can bet that's about the number they'd look at before doing something drastic - but like you said we don't know we're anywhere near there.

Edited June 10, 2012 by jgelling

[SawneyRath]

I agree with you OP. The population on TOR is fine, its just spread out. When the server mergers happen people should notice just how many people actually play.

 

People who say this game is dead are really clueless. I remember SWG (A STAR WARS GAME that had to pay the same license fees as TOR, and work with Lucas Arts >.>)... And How it "died". 8 years... 8 years it survived with a fraction of the players TOR has now. It suffered the Launch Bugs, CU, NGE, server closures, and finally the onslaught of TOR developing, and still it had a player base, it had regular content updates.. Hell even after the announced its death they STILL added content!

 

So to the people who whine about population and the "decline" in players... Its simply part of the MMO beast. There is NO MMOs out there, or coming out that won't suffer the same "hype up" and "disappointment" that TOR, and the MMOs that came before it. Including WoW suffered.

Edited June 10, 2012 by SawneyRath

[gabarooni]

I agree with you OP. The population on TOR is fine, its just spread out. When the server mergers happen people should notice just how many people actually play.

 

People who say this game is dead are really clueless. I remember SWG (A STAR WARS GAME that had to pay the same license fees as TOR, and work with Lucas Arts >.>)... And How it "died". 8 years... 8 years it survived with a fraction of the players TOR has now. It suffered the Launch Bugs, CU, NGE, server closures, and finally the onslaught of TOR developing, and still it had a player base, it had regular content updates.. Hell even after the announced its death they STILL added content!

 

So to the people who whine about population and the "decline" in players... Its simply part of the MMO beast. There is NO MMOs out there, or coming out that won't suffer the same "hype up" and "disappointment" that TOR, and the MMOs that came before it. Including WoW suffered.

 

 

Amen.

[amnie]

yeah, maybe those games are out there. I've played a few of them for a while. notice the word played.

[Valkirus]

lol somehow I doubt those 10,000 sub MMORPGs have the budget or investor expectations that is expected from TOR.

 

This is just like all those who dont know better that say "Well WOW has limited F2P option so its good for TOR" but refuse to understand WOW didnt goto that option until 3+ years after release.

 

What another game does, doesnt mean its the same for TOR.

 

Even EA devs have admitted TOR needs 500k to break even.

 

So I fail to see how some MMO with 10k subs is relevant to this discussion

 

PS: My server 4 months ago was heavy to full load

last month I have not seen more then 15 people at any time of day at any location

Most locations are 1-4 players per planet

So Id disagree with assumption I get to play with 100s of 1000s.

 

Very true. And I would be surprised they will have 500K come the end of third quarter reports. That is when all the initial 6 month subs have ended and the 30 days free time.

[amnie]

Very true. And I would be surprised they will have 500K come the end of third quarter reports. That is when all the initial 6 month subs have ended and the 30 days free time.

 

right, because the people still playing all have 6 months subs. i also don't know about .your. free time but mine is only still running because I only upgraded to CE a few days before my 30 days gift started, so I guess for most people their free month will not fall into the current quarter anymore.

[Anomorn]

Personally, from a competitive, elitist standpoint, if The Old Republic never gets up to 3-4 million, it'll always feel second-hand compared to the game who shall not be named.

 

Why am I playing, then? I think the game has that potential after a year or two.

Edited June 10, 2012 by Anomorn

[RocNessMonster]

I'd be surprised if SWTOR broke 10k players concurrently at this point.

[Balbosa]

There are only a handful of servers with hundreds of players on them. I would say there is less than 100k active players. I don't think this game has more than 100k subs. Edited June 10, 2012 by Balbosa

[IPaq]

Name one person in swtor that is playing with a 100,000 other people. I can name lot's of people that play with closer to 10 on dead servers various times throughout the day.

 

The 12 millions subs is out of context.

 

The Asia market represent 8 to 10 millions of those accounts because of their pay-2-play up to a maximum of 6 (or 8) hours per week... people are maintaining many accounts.

 

At the top of the hype, there was about 4 millions US+EU players... and it is now down to about 2M playing.

 

Issue with SWTOR is too many realms for the # of active players. Shrink it, make ppl happy, I don't give a crap about my toon/legacy names, I just want an active realm.

[sumuji]

Yeah when you think of the long list of MMORPG's that haven been made since the beggining only a few have shut down. Granted some ended up as a SOE Station Pass deal but that means almost all of them are still functioning with real players and updating, allbeit very slowly for some titles.

[Valkirus]

The 12 millions subs is out of context.

 

The Asia market represent 8 to 10 millions of those accounts because of their pay-2-play up to a maximum of 6 (or 8) hours per week... people are maintaining many accounts.

 

At the top of the hype, there was about 4 millions US+EU players... and it is now down to about 2M playing.

 

Issue with SWTOR is too many realms for the # of active players. Shrink it, make ppl happy, I don't give a crap about my toon/legacy names, I just want an active realm.

 

I smell a whole lot of speculation here. Or is it the WoW hatred exaggerating the facts again? It does not matter where the subs are and of course those in Asia will pay a different and lower sub fee than those in the US. You ever heard of a exchange rate? And also the amount of money the majority of those in the US make is unheard of by the masses in Asia. If TOR accesses the market in Asia, they too would count those subs as paying ones.

[IPaq]

I smell a whole lot of speculation here. Or is it the WoW hatred exaggerating the facts again? It does not matter where the subs are and of course those in Asia will pay a different and lower sub fee than those in the US. You ever heard of a exchange rate? And also the amount of money the majority of those in the US make is unheard of by the masses in Asia. If TOR accesses the market in Asia, they too would count those subs as paying ones.

 

Its all documented in their quarterly reports. You just have to bother reading them =D

 

And yes. But people should stop making blanket statement like 12M WoW Subs compared to 1.2M SWTOR =D

Edited June 10, 2012 by IPaq

[Gungan]

Yes, there are, but their budgets were nowhere near the budget of SWTOR.

 

When you have a high production product, expectations go up.

[Valkirus]

Its all documented in their quarterly reports. You just have to bother reading them =D

 

And yes. But people should stop making blanket statement like 12M WoW Subs compared to 1.2M SWTOR =D

 

Not really. We sometimes will read, but only see what we want to see. WoW does not have 12 million subs. They are at 10.2 million and have held steady at that number the last two reporting cycles. What I remember reading was when they had 12 million subs was...5.4 million of those was in North America alone. The rest was scattered across the rest of the world which also counted Europe. Not sure what the figures are now...but I would venture to guess the percentages of the spread is close to the same it was then. But lets say all the 1.8 million they lost was from North America alone.....they still would have over 3 million , which beats any other MMO in total subs by a very large margin.

[IPaq]

Not really. We sometimes will read, but only see what we want to see. WoW does not have 12 million subs. They are at 10.2 million and have held steady at that number the last two reporting cycles. What I remember reading was when they had 12 million subs was...5.4 million of those was in North America alone. The rest was scattered across the rest of the world which also counted Europe. Not sure what the figures are now...but I would venture to guess the percentages of the spread is close to the same it was then. But lets say all the 1.8 million they lost was from North America alone.....they still would have over 3 million , which beats any other MMO in total subs by a very large margin.

 

Its quite easy to miss the "height of the hype" comment in there... so i felt the need to repeat it.

Edited June 10, 2012 by IPaq

[Emeda]

As I mentioned in the other thread you posted that:

 

 

BioWare officially announced that they need ~ 500.000 subs to be profitable.

 

 

That's a big big big big big big difference to all these other MMOs.

 

Triple AAA + Insane Budget + Tremendous Licence Costs - that's the problem.

 

You think that number is even close to accurate? Just look at it this way. They say they have 1.3 million subs but then go and cut 150,000 people from their payroll? That just doesnt add up. When they determine profitability they should take into account all costs, that being server maint, salaries. any money going to LA etc. If they were almost 150% above thier profitablity margin then why make the cuts?

 

Just more math that doesnt add up when BW/EA says things. 800,000 X 15 is 12,000,000. Thats a 12 million dollar profit per month and they cant live with that?

[tloops]

Swtors last census was 1,400,000 subs.

 

please stop hanging onto that number...that was 3 months ago and the sub numbers arent even close to that now!

[Gungan]

please stop hanging onto that number...that was 3 months ago and the sub numbers arent even close to that now!

 

And even 3 months ago it was 1.3, not 1.4.

[xengist]

I think the problem is that they really thought they were going to have a larger player base than they did. The story is much different and probably the strength of this game, however there is a high end game here that is much less developed than wow. The classes are less fleshed out.

 

I will admit that pvp is more balanced than most games however that does not in itself equate to fun. I was hoping myself for a game with a heavier emphasis on pvp but the development is slow and in fact I think they are just going to copy wow again and just have it as some side game people can do while bored. I find myself wishing for a daoc style game with more buttons.

 

There is no niche here... just a copy of wow with less money to play with. (Even more so if you think about the star wars license that wow doesn't have to pay). I think wow is also trying very hard to push into asian markets with the next expansion(panderen anyone??). If they were to get even 1/2 of a % of china thats 5 million subs.

 

I think a lesson for game companies to learn here is... don't try to copy mmorpg of other companies that have more money to blow and have an already established sub base.