Please don't allow group finder to go live without gearcheck.

[Nyoro]

Title says it all really. The group finder is great and I think you've done a good job with the interface and whatnot, but it simply isn't going to work properly for the endgame flashpoints/operations without gearcheck. Waiting an hour for an encounter only for one of the members to be severely undergearded will only cause no end of frustration for all of the members involved. It's a tried and tested system that works brilliantly in other mmos and it is needed in this one.

 

In all fairness it wouldn't be hard to implement at all either, gear already has a rating on it so it would simply be a case of averaging the players gear and matching it against a FP/OP's required rating. It's not fool-proof, but it will save a lot of time for players and make the endgame experience far more enjoyable for just about everyone.

 

Please don't cut corners with the group finder, I for one don't want to have to wait months again for something that should have been included as standard. (lack of cross server is bad enough but no gear check would just take the biscuit for me)

Edited June 10, 2012 by Nyoro

[turjake]

What is the point? Even in wow most group leaders (atleast when doing raids) are doing their own gearcheck because players can cheat the automatic systems, or the system isnt strict enough, or they are doing speedrun and dont want noobs, or whatever reasons. Implementing gearcheck at this point would be a waste of resources they can use to fix those irritating bugs the current version in the test center has, or adding x-server functionality.

 

They can add it later if they wish, but the LFG tool is needed now more than some additional feature that just adds a bit of convenience.

[Toogeloo]

Have you even looked at the patch notes? Hard Mode Flashpoints are getting nerfed down to easy modes. And Story Mode Ops of EV and KP can be done in Green Gear.

 

There are maybe 3 things the Group Finder is going to allow us to match for that might require some decent gear, and those 3 things are better to do with people you know anyways.

[Daisai]

Title says it all really. The group finder is great and I think you've done a good job with the interface and whatnot, but it simply isn't going to work properly for the endgame flashpoints/operations without gearcheck. Waiting an hour for an encounter only for one of the members to be severely undergearded will only cause no end of frustration for all of the members involved. It's a tried and tested system that works brilliantly in other mmos and it is needed in this one.

 

In all fairness it wouldn't be hard to implement at all either, gear already has a rating on it so it would simply be a case of averaging the players gear and matching it against a FP/OP's required rating. It's not fool-proof, but it will save a lot of time for players and make the endgame experience far more enjoyable for just about everyone.

 

Please don't cut corners with the group finder, I for one don't want to have to wait months again for something that should have been included as standard. (lack of cross server is bad enough but no gear check would just take the biscuit for me)

 

Let me translate this.

 

"Hi im a Wotlk wow player and i started playing wow when the gear had rating on it and rating on gear is all that matters.

It has nothing to do with what stats you buff or how you play your class, nope all that matters is rating.

Also i seem to forget on how people simply exploited the rating system in wow"

 

There translated it for you.

[Quinton]

LFG Tool and gear check in every other mmo I have played have made the game too easy and boring.

 

In wow vanilla was good were you had to use CC. These days its gear check and zzzzz aoe tanking with minimal to zero skills required.

 

I agree that some content need xxx gear stats but its very limited if you know your class and know what you can do to be effective.

 

Focus down one taget at a time.

Crowd control enemies.

Kite enemies.

 

In my exspirience the fail comes when people dont know the basics of gameplay and how to play their class. In that case it does not matter if you have the best gear.

 

My 2cents - take it or leave it.

[MbaxterBeau]

Isn't the whole point of running flash points and heroics is to get better gear? I'm a healer and MANY times I have issues because people in my groups gear but I have never stopped and complained about gear. I want people to enjoy the game and to have the ability to get the gear they want.

 

If you want to make sure everyone's gear fits your requirement's OP don't use a group finder just form a group yourself and inspect gear. Don't force your expectations on other players. They pay a sub just like you do.

[Emeda]

Isn't the whole point of running flash points and heroics is to get better gear? I'm a healer and MANY times I have issues because people in my groups gear but I have never stopped and complained about gear. I want people to enjoy the game and to have the ability to get the gear they want.

 

If you want to make sure everyone's gear fits your requirement's OP don't use a group finder just form a group yourself and inspect gear. Don't force your expectations on other players. They pay a sub just like you do.

 

I thought the LFG was only wanted so you can find a group. Now you want it to find a group for you and exclude certain players from it?

 

As said above, and I dont know if its true but most likely they will nerf the content so anyone can do it in the LFG even with terrible gear. If you look back you will see people mentioning that it would nerf content if they added a LFG and it looks like thats going to be the case .

 

You got your LFG so now you can deal with it. Here comes all the *** posts about getting a group and it just being a complete failure because someone was chain pulling when the group wasnt ready, people ninjaing loot (yes needing for an alt in a group I would consider ninjaing).

 

Did they add a vote kick system to it? I havent checked but if so then the I was kicked for no reason posts and if they didnt then the this guy was afk and didnt help us at all but won all the loot posts.

 

Again you got it so you can deal with all the problems it will cause, and its alot more than if you just had to form the group yourself.

[amnie]

Title says it all really. The group finder is great and I think you've done a good job with the interface and whatnot, but it simply isn't going to work properly for the endgame flashpoints/operations without gearcheck. Waiting an hour for an encounter only for one of the members to be severely undergearded will only cause no end of frustration for all of the members involved. It's a tried and tested system that works brilliantly in other mmos and it is needed in this one.

 

In all fairness it wouldn't be hard to implement at all either, gear already has a rating on it so it would simply be a case of averaging the players gear and matching it against a FP/OP's required rating. It's not fool-proof, but it will save a lot of time for players and make the endgame experience far more enjoyable for just about everyone.

 

Please don't cut corners with the group finder, I for one don't want to have to wait months again for something that should have been included as standard. (lack of cross server is bad enough but no gear check would just take the biscuit for me)

 

standart for whom?

 

I am still 100% convinced if people hadn't yelled for a group finder right from the start, not even giving the LFG-tool and player created channels a chance to begin with (yes, people .refused. to use them) we wouldn't even have these problems.

 

WoW does not determine what is 'standart' (and Rift most certainly doesn't, so don't even try)

 

what you .think. is 'undergeared' is also a problem. the group finder is still just going to bring you pugs. and with that you will get the usual pug-problems.

[DiabloDoom]

Take me back to the golden age where skill was all that mattered. Hell on UO or Mir a player in nooby items could kill a small group of people with epic items, why? Because that person had skill (ok and maybe a tweaked computer).

 

Knowing what to do and when to do it > clueless person with highest rating. boohoo if they have 5-10% less stats.

Edited June 10, 2012 by DiabloDoom

[Dibdabs]

Let me translate this.

 

"Hi im a Wotlk wow player and i started playing wow when the gear had rating on it and rating on gear is all that matters.

It has nothing to do with what stats you buff or how you play your class, nope all that matters is rating.

Also i seem to forget on how people simply exploited the rating system in wow"

 

There translated it for you.

Absolutely spot on. Players who think "Gear Checks" are a measure of how good a player is are a waste of space. Avoid them and their guilds/corps utterly because they suck any fun right out of the game and reduce it to what amounts to number-crunching. They are the grey, drab little face of MMOs

 

I've known players carted along on instances (in a variety of MMOs) who did nothing whatsoever to earn their gear - I was once listening to aomeone's guild chat on Vent and the group he was with told the guy to "hang back while they cleared the mobs." AT the end of the run, this guy had been handed the gear drops by friends. The person now wearing this shiny uber-gear had no clue as to what the hell they were doing, yet according to the gear score nerds he/she is now classed by everyone as a "good player".

[Dibdabs]

I thought the LFG was only wanted so you can find a group. Now you want it to find a group for you and exclude certain players from it?

Yeah, that's the "Social Gaming" we get these days.

[Sparklehorse]

So many people not "getting it" in this thread.

 

Simple concept really.

 

Tank ques for an instance with bosses that hit for 21k and tank has 18k HP.

 

All of the emotional nonsense aside, this is numerical.

 

Bioware gated the content by using gear. This means that no matter how good a player you might THINK you are, it doesn't matter when the rubber hit's the road. When that boss hits you for 21k and you only have 18k there isn't a thing anybody can do for you at that point. The numbers just whooped your butt.

 

People can throw red herring after red herring into this argument but it's all about numbers. Call each other names all you want but it doesn't make a bit of difference if you aren't geared for the content you aren't geared for the content.

 

Again I didn't make these rules, Bioware did when they designed the encounters and gated them with gear level.

 

Now you tell me who the A-hole is. The person who asks that Bioware create a tool that allows people to que only for content they are geared for or the tank with 15k HP that joins your Denova group?

[amnie]

So many people not "getting it" in this thread.

 

Simple concept really.

 

Tank ques for an instance with bosses that hit for 21k and tank has 18k HP.

 

All of the emotional nonsense aside, this is numerical.

 

Bioware gated the content by using gear. This means that no matter how good a player you might THINK you are, it doesn't matter when the rubber hit's the road. When that boss hits you for 21k and you only have 18k there isn't a thing anybody can do for you at that point. The numbers just whooped your butt.

 

People can throw red herring after red herring into this argument but it's all about numbers. Call each other names all you want but it doesn't make a bit of difference if you aren't geared for the content you aren't geared for the content.

 

Again I didn't make these rules, Bioware did when they designed the encounters and gated them with gear level.

 

Now you tell me who the A-hole is. The person who asks that Bioware create a tool that allows people to que only for content they are geared for or the tank with 15k HP that joins your Denova group?

 

I love your number plays. really.

 

I'll tell you something. denova boss hits for about 14k.

if people queue for denova hm (or even story mode for that matter) while running around in greens... kick them and they won't do it again (but be nice about it and tell them WHY you kicked them)

 

people will learn. they will learn. have some trust.

 

and don't call people who queue up for denova hm in greens names.. they might just not know any better

 

edit: not forgetting to mention someone here had a very good point

going by the example of denova...

 

you .need. to know the mechanics to win in this. obviously to get to know the mechanics you might have to do it a few times, preferably with people whose playstyle you are used to (especially as for the first two fights there are different ways to do it)

 

if you do THAT with PUGs. well... yeah.. you have nothing to complain about because even if you only have people with 20k health, chances are you will need a few tries

Edited June 10, 2012 by amnie

[thomasgallant]

I love your number plays. really.

 

I'll tell you something. denova boss hits for about 14k.

if people queue for denova hm (or even story mode for that matter) while running around in greens... kick them and they won't do it again (but be nice about it and tell them WHY you kicked them)

 

people will learn. they will learn. have some trust.

 

and don't call people who queue up for denova hm in greens names.. they might just not know any better

 

thats my problem.. people dont explain when they kick with gearscore.. and how can people improve to regroup later if they have no clue whats wrong....

[amnie]

thats my problem.. people dont explain when they kick with gearscore.. and how can people improve to regroup later if they have no clue whats wrong....

edit: nvm I misunderstood

Edited June 10, 2012 by amnie

[Ghaiana]

If someone is serious about raiding, I presume they are in a raiding guild and raid with a steady group. Why on earth would they use a lfg tool if they want to do a challenge seriously? And what does a gearcheck add, does it tell you if someone is a "bad player"? Someone can have excellent gear and still go afk every 5 minutes or someone can be very serious but not have the right gear yet. There's absolutely no guarantee who you take with you in a PUG, so I see no use in gearchecks in a tool, except grief probably. Edited June 10, 2012 by Ghaiana

[Pcolapat]

If you are doing progression level content I wouldn't suggest using the group finder at all. Sure fail in most cases.

[-Backdraft-]

Oh god, the new system isn't even out yet and people already start to complain about something new... I understand your point but I don't think we're in the situation yet to start complain..

[Deresdod]

A gear check does not mean that you have to have the best gear in the game to run an flashpoint. There is a minimum recommended item level of gear that ensures you're not going to be banging your head up against a wall. In raids you can have 1 or 2 bad people carried by 1 or 2 exceptional players. The gear score is to cover the former - sub par player.

 

But really, baddies gonna be bad. I really don't think you need a gearcheck on the leveling instances, or SM's for that matter. But once you move into HM's, yes there should be something that says "We recommend at least X Gear Level"

 

and

 

 

If you are doing progression level content I wouldn't suggest using the group finder at all. Sure fail in most cases.

 

^ This

Edited June 10, 2012 by Deresdod

[amnie]

If you are doing progression level content I wouldn't suggest using the group finder at all. Sure fail in most cases.

 

exactly.

 

using the group finder to do HM ops or Denova (or maybe even LI hm) should be done when you've already succeeded it a few times in your 'steady' group

I mean, it's not like you can't add people you found with the lfg-tool to your friendslist after you finished normal modes and build a group 'old school' (aka asking them if they'd be up for whatever run you want to do)

[tloops]

Let me translate this.

 

"Hi im a Wotlk wow player and i started playing wow when the gear had rating on it and rating on gear is all that matters.

It has nothing to do with what stats you buff or how you play your class, nope all that matters is rating.

Also i seem to forget on how people simply exploited the rating system in wow"

 

There translated it for you.

 

lol so true

[Naej]

gs doesn't take skill into account. It's the worst addon they ever came up with. I will personnaly leave any game that implement that.

 

Anyone that relies on that to choose a party member doesn't have a clue what they are doing.

[Nyoro]

This isn't about "excluding people" from the content. It's about making the endgame content as accessible and enjoyable for the majority of customers.(so that the game succeeds) I know you guys seem to think I have some kind of hatred for new players or started playing WoW on Wotlk(both false) but the reality is I just want this game to do well and if BioWare keep making half arsed attempts at introducing new content then that simply isn't going to happen.

 

I'm amazed really, I'm trying to give good suggestions here while you guys would actually prefer it if they leave out things that are proven to work well in similar mmos. Fast forward a month or two and then the forums will fill up with posts about how the group finder is too slow(lack of cross server, dual spec) and rants by people that have run dungeons with people without the right gear.

 

WoW does not determine what is 'standart'

 

This made me laugh, "hey the most successful MMO of all time did this and it works well so lets not include it in our game." and then they wonder why the subs are dropping, sounds like BioWare logic to me

 

gs doesn't take skill into account. It's the worst addon they ever came up with. I will personnaly leave any game that implement that.

 

Anyone that relies on that to choose a party member doesn't have a clue what they are doing.

 

True it doesn't take skill into account, but it adds one less variable to the mix so that players are more likely to succeed in encounters.

 

Let me give you an example of 3 different variables:

 

Badly geared player - Can't down the boss because his gear isn't good enough to kill it before enrage timer.

 

Average geared player - Manages to down boss because his gear puts out the right numbers. Group finder will always make sure this person+ is selected for an encounter.

 

Great geared player - Downs boss easily because weapons do more than enough damage.

 

With gearscore the group always has players with the right gear for the encounter so the only variable left is for the players to have the competence to complete it.

Edited June 10, 2012 by Nyoro

[amnie]

This made me laugh, "hey the most successful MMO of all time did this and it works well so lets not include it in our game." and then they wonder why the subs are dropping, sounds like BioWare logic to me

 

 

 

most successful to me does not translate to 'highest subscription numbers'

I'm sorry to disappoint.

 

and even if that was the case, it would .still. not determine what is standart. a 'standart' is something you can .expect.

considering the sheer numbers of 'successful' MMOs that do .not. have an automatic group finder - I guess it's save to say it is indeed .not. standart.

[Nyoro]

most successful to me does not translate to 'highest subscription numbers'

I'm sorry to disappoint.

 

and even if that was the case, it would .still. not determine what is standart. a 'standart' is something you can .expect.

considering the sheer numbers of 'successful' MMOs that do .not. have an automatic group finder - I guess it's save to say it is indeed .not. standart.

 

Sure there is no official definition to was is a standard when it comes to mmos as it varies from person to person, but the reason I use WoW as an example is because the vast majority of mmo players play/have played WoW. MMO's are a business and if you want your game to succeed then it makes sense to have the features that the majority of players will expect, having no doubt played WoW.