Staying dark is HARD

[CelticMarauder]

It's the complete opposite of games like KOTOR 1, where it took the accumulated total of ALL our choices and then furnished the appropriate ending.

 

I apologize sincerely for bringing up something from several pages ago, but I'd just like to address this point, at least to clarify to people newly reading this thread or who haven't played that game. KOTOR 1's ending depended entirely on one decision near the end of the game, regardless of your alignment. Are you thinking of KOTOR II, where alignment and influence change the ending for you and your companions fairly significantly?

Edited June 9, 2012 by CelticMarauder

[Izorii]

I took a BH and he took every evil option avaliable. He got into pointless fights, upset a lot of people and was pretty much a jerk, it was tough because even though I could see the option was stupid I took it any way. Much much harder than being lightside.

[MouseNoFour]

I took a BH and he took every evil option avaliable. He got into pointless fights, upset a lot of people and was pretty much a jerk, it was tough because even though I could see the option was stupid I took it any way. Much much harder than being lightside.

 

Playing light side is pathetically easy for me.

 

NPC - Hello there!

1. Hi there!

2. Dont you have more important things to do?

3. Bow down before me and kiss the ground i walk.

 

Pretty obvious number 3 is the jerk/b---- option and 99% i will not even finish reading before choosing 1/2.

[Ignicity]

Playing light side is pathetically easy for me.

 

NPC - Hello there!

1. Hi there!

2. Dont you have more important things to do?

3. Bow down before me and kiss the ground i walk.

 

Pretty obvious number 3 is the jerk/b---- option and 99% i will not even finish reading before choosing 1/2.

 

Number 3 often has [Refuse Quest], so there's another reason to ignore it.

[Ooloi]

I had no problems with my inquisitor staying dark at all. I think I was vaguely tempted like once to take a light side choice. Mostly people just died, but Dark V for an inquisitor is a cake walk.

 

I'm having no problems with my dark jedi staying dark either. If you reject fuzzy-logic, sappy bleeding-heart thinking, and choose the practical choice, the military choice, or the choice that gets the job done regardless; then you'll be dark.

 

I had to laugh at one point as my dialogue answer was "your mistake was thinking that I care..." This is her, exactly. Civilian safety vs. military objective? No problem, it's the military objective every time. Someone wants to hold hostages? Pfft, we don't negotiate with hostage takers. "I'm sorry they had to die, but their noble sacrifice will be honored by those of us who survive...." And I never tire in Esseles of seeing the ambassador get what's coming to her.

 

Honestly, my biggest problem with Dark side republic is that the dark choices are often lame compared to what I'd do if they would let me (actually, this is true too often for the Imperial side as well). I'd be letting Imperials go free to fight another day left and right, I'd be keeping the freaking weapons/money/resources for *myself*, I'd be killing the prisoners in their cells and then reporting that they were unfortunately lost in action. "Dark" Jedi is like having milk chocolate; it promises rich creamy goodness, but you get tooth-aching saccharine sweetness without any real depth. The choices of "oh Yes, I'm a bad bad girl but I'll help you save all these poor orphans" grates on the nerves with a microplane shredder after awhile.

 

"Diplomacy is the art of saying "nice doggy" whilst you look for a rock..."

Edited June 9, 2012 by Ooloi

[DarthTyranid]

On my agent I am just choosing to romance any female npc when my helmet comes off in a cut scene, and then doing whatever makes the most sense for a given situation. Level 21 and still neutral. Really a lot of the light/dark options are so out of whack that I am truly worried about the moral compass of whatever bioware employee designed it.

[MouseNoFour]

So far, my character - 21 at the moment - is exactly what Major Bessiker (npc in the class story) says she is. A cold blooded murderer.

 

My character is an utter monster. Kelara? Dead. Bessiker? Dead. Doctor Tyrek? Dead. If the option comes up to shock the npc, she shocks them. If the option to kill the npc comes up, they die. Always. If there were children in this game that it is possible to kill - she would kill them and their kittens too.

 

Just a pile of corpses behind her is all that she leaves. Every one of those ive killed via dialogue option, i know for a fact did not deserve what they got. Everyone. Of course, there are options to attack via dialogue and some of those npc's did deserve punishment for being what they are - like Bessiker's Sith son.

 

Not even sure i will be able to stomach 29 more levels of this.

 

EDIT - One rule i am strictly following - no help from my 'real' characters. I will not waste credits or items/gear on this character. This character uses only what i earn whilst on that character.

Edited June 9, 2012 by MouseNoFour

[flyersfan]

Nothing is more exciting than staking neutrality throughout your storyline, am I right? "Proper gray" doesn't exist, you are suggesting that in order to be "gray" your actions should have zero moral implications. The game intentionally forces you into a moral decision on purpose and it is the overall balance of the morality of your choices that determine your ls/ds alignment.

 

Canonically, having no opinion on everything is not (at all) what it means to be a gray jedi. And those types of choices are indeed present throughout the game.

 

Proper grey, to me, is borderline apathy and disregard for organisational constraints. It's the guy sitting in a bar where a fight breaks out and he just shrugs and goes back to watching the hockey game on the TV. He didn't stand up to defend anyone and he didn't jump in for the thrill. When faced with a decision, no code would be referenced, no others would be considered, and the person would make a decision almost solely based on self-preservation. This wouldn't include an endless, tiring chase of credits like the Smuggler or Bounty Hunter (or DarkTroop most of the time). To me, Qui-Gon Jinn would be close to a grey Jedi because he doesn't follow the Jedi Code to the T and does what he thinks is right. On the other hand, I don't consider blindly following the Jedi Code to be Light Side.

 

Canonically, one of the definitions of a "grey Jedi" is "it described Jedi who distanced themselves from the Jedi High Council and operated outside the strictures of the Jedi Code." This more supports my side of what grey means. In that definition, there is no requirement to be good or evil. As a matter of fact, I would argue that "good" & "evil" don't exist to the type of person that follows that type of path. There is only getting the job done: whatever that might entail.

 

However, "it was used by Jedi and Sith to describe Force-users who walked the line between the light and dark sides of the Force without surrendering to the dark side" is more up your alley. Speaking with emphasis on TOR's dialogue structure, this definition supports the bipolar "save the kids on Tuesday and burn the village down on Wednesday" approach. The game frequently provides the player with only two choices: one Light Side and one Dark Side. These choices usually tend to be quite intense in nature. For example (Athiss spoiler):

 

 

During the Athiss Flashpoint, you are posed with a dilemma on whether or not to turn on a beacon to help save a group of trapped prisoners. The Light Side choice is to simply turn on the beacon and the Dark Side choice is to essentially let them die a miserable death because you're a psychopath.

 

 

In the above example, there is no "walk away" option or any other option that would indicate a following of the grey path. You kill or you don't, and in many of these circumstances within TOR, you are killing in cold blood with little reason. To create a grey alignment (with you alignment needle in the middle), you would need to constantly be jumping back and forth from a murderous monster and a kind-hearted gent/lady. The game just doesn't really support or even hint at a grey possibility.

 

Like I said before, I hope they change that. If they really want this game to be more like an RPG, then give us the options of an RPG (even though ME3 didn't really have many middle-of-the-road choices between Paragon & Renegade either).

 

So, tell me, what is the grey choice between killing and not killing. Sort of killing? -.-

 

In reference to my comments and posted definitions above, it depends on what you consider grey. If you're going with the "skulking the line between the Light Side and Dark Side," then it can be virtually whatever you want. You can kill the puppies for the thrill or just because. On the other hand, you can pet the puppies and give them a snack. That would coincide with your somewhat bipolar personality.

 

Other options could include pushing the box of puppies away from the falling tree and walking away, just watching the puppies get crushed to death, or stopping the tree from falling. I'd say that the first and last could be considered Light Side and that the second one is Dark Side, but that's when we all get into an argument about specific examples and that's not really getting us anywhere.

 

If there were children in this game that it is possible to kill - she would kill them and their kittens too.

 

Not the kitties!!

Edited June 9, 2012 by flyersfan

[Badonkastomp]

"Evil will always triumph because good is dumb" Playing my Inquisitor makes me feel like I need another shower, he's never made a single lightside choice. Ever. My bounty hunter on the other hand shoots confetti and candy from his blasters and rainbows from his jetpack.

[DarthTaxius]

Lol, I actually agree, only the other way around, staying light is hard

 

Agreed. Light side is so lame

[Burana]

Shyeesh. I had the exact opposite experience. Almost impossible to be Light Side on my Smuggler, and that was with me trying to be generally a good guy with an occasionally "in it for the credits" remark.

 

 

Parents want to know the fate of their lost son.

I hunt him down and discover he's been brainwashed by Separatists.

I break the brainwashing and he's actually able to think again and control his future.

He asks me to give him money so that he can run away off planet and not have to face his problems, adding that he wants me to lie to his parents and tell them their son is dead.

His parents having assured me that they love and accept him regardless, I tell him that running away from his problems is not the answer and encourage him to return to his loving family.

+ Dark Side points.

He refuses to come with me, and chooses to stay as a Separatist Prisoner rather than talk with his parents.

I return to his parents and am asked to either told to lie and claim the boy is dead, or tell them the truth, that he was a brainwashed captive but I could not force him to return.

I tell them the truth, given that they've already been getting word of him being alive and will likely hear, if not directly meet, him again in the future.

Truth = + more Dark Side points.

 

 

That was just one of many, many missions I have taken where my Smuggler was given Dark Side for doing what seemed like the right thing. Almost impossible to stay good in this game.

 

This is a very valid point also. I also picked Dark side choices quite often on my smuggler, when it was for the greater good, from my point of view.

 

It seems that they (game designers) mixed the purpose of Dark side and Light side, where Dark can stand for Chaotic alignment, or simply Evil alignment. And Light side doesn't always mean "good", it can be simply a Lawful Evil choice (I can't explain otherwise many choices in SI or SW stories).

With this, Dark side choices on smuggler often lead to sort of Chaotic Good alignment. And sometimes it is simply Neutral or Neutral Evil "give me the money" thing. And vice versa, Light side choices with a Sith can be as evil as Dark side choices, but they are Lawful Evil vs Chaotic Evil. For example, you choose to imprison a guy (who will be tortured and killed anyway), you get Light side. You kill him here and now, Dark side. In this situation, the Dark side is even more merciful, and the Light side is kind of "washing your hands".

 

So, playing a good guy would give me like 2/3 Light side and 1/3 Dark side. This sucks in terms of the alignment rewards. The stupid alignment vendors make us farm one side or the other.

[Nyla]

This is a very valid point also. I also picked Dark side choices quite often on my smuggler, when it was for the greater good, from my point of view.

 

It seems that they (game designers) mixed the purpose of Dark side and Light side, where Dark can stand for Chaotic alignment, or simply Evil alignment. And Light side doesn't always mean "good", it can be simply a Lawful Evil choice (I can't explain otherwise many choices in SI or SW stories).

With this, Dark side choices on smuggler often lead to sort of Chaotic Good alignment. And sometimes it is simply Neutral or Neutral Evil "give me the money" thing. And vice versa, Light side choices with a Sith can be as evil as Dark side choices, but they are Lawful Evil vs Chaotic Evil. For example, you choose to imprison a guy (who will be tortured and killed anyway), you get Light side. You kill him here and now, Dark side. In this situation, the Dark side is even more merciful, and the Light side is kind of "washing your hands".

 

So, playing a good guy would give me like 2/3 Light side and 1/3 Dark side. This sucks in terms of the alignment rewards. The stupid alignment vendors make us farm one side or the other.

 

The problem is you are applying DnD alignment system on Star Wars Light/Dark Sides for the Force and it doesn't work that way. The problem isn't how it's designed but how you perceive things.

 

Sending someone to prison is Light because he still has a chance to live, killing is Dark, his life ends here, period. Forcing that young guy to go back to his family when he can't face them is dark, telling them the truth when you are asked not to is dark too.

 

Light/Dark in Star Wars is about the current decision, what may happen in the future is another thing.

That's why it's interesting, short and long term consequences don't necessarily match.

[Burana]

The problem is you are applying DnD alignment system on Star Wars Light/Dark Sides for the Force and it doesn't work that way. The problem isn't how it's designed but how you perceive things.

 

Sending someone to prison is Light because he still has a chance to live, killing is Dark, his life ends here, period. Forcing that young guy to go back to his family when he can't face them is dark, telling them the truth when you are asked not to is dark too.

 

Light/Dark in Star Wars is about the current decision, what may happen in the future is another thing.

That's why it's interesting, short and long term consequences don't necessarily match.

 

I tried to apply DnD alignment because otherwise dividing into Dark/Light as Evil/Good doesn't really work as "Kill=bad=dark", "Spare=good=light". Sometimes it is "Tell the truth=Dark", "Lie=Light" and the other way around, so it does count consequences and reasons why you lie or tell the truth.

 

Getting back to the topic, staying Dark may be hard because picking always Dark side decisions makes your character sort of a mindless maniac and serial killer. And purely Light side choices don't always make you a good guy or an attractive personality to play. And again, all this doesn't matter for the game and your character won't get any consequences, we have to farm points for higher levels of alignment tiers. It's all about personal disgust to pick the dark side choices to get to the highest tier of Dark side rewards.

[GlennWippenberg]

I had that little guilt trip when making my Sith Assassin Dark. I switched over to Light Side early and used Diplomacy to farm extra Light Points. Flashpoints helped, too. I was able to get her to Light III when she hit 35. I quit the character, though.

 

My second 50 is a Dark Jedi Sentinel. It's actually a mirror image of my Assassin. I made a few Light Sides early on then eventually learned to detach and enjoy the Dark Side choices. It definitely helped build her character. She's currently Dark IV and wearing the Agile Judgement's Vest. She looks cold and sinister.

 

I have a level 16 Gunslinger that I'm making pure Dark. Some of the choices on Ord Mantell were a bit stingy but I got over it quick. She's supposed to be a stone cold Steven Segal/Bruce Willis type. The voice acting makes being sinister on a Smuggler really entertaining.

[Valkirus]

"Evil will always triumph because good is dumb" Playing my Inquisitor makes me feel like I need another shower, he's never made a single lightside choice. Ever. My bounty hunter on the other hand shoots confetti and candy from his blasters and rainbows from his jetpack.

 

Have not studied History much huh? In WW2...which side was bad and lost?

 

On the Topic tho, the choices BioWare have set up to define dark or light ones is based on whoever it was who wrote the story. Which my morality may not agree with thier's. This is why the choices in TOR other than for Dark or Light side points, really donot matter. In order to stay and get to buy the LIght side items I wanted to buy for my char at Light V, I had to make light side choices which I really did not agree with. Some were downright stupid ones IMO.

[AelixVII]

Is it bad I found it easy to be fully dark side on my Bounty Hunter? Just can't see Cole doing anything good, though he did warm to his crew after a while.

[Callaron]

Some dark side choices are priceless! =P

Most of my DS characters tend to be either of the ruthless opportunist variety or a cold, calculating mastermind - although even those end up sometimes choosing Light Side options simply because it's the smart thing to do in the situation.

One example being

the Sith Warrior storyline on Nar Shaddaa; my dark side Sith chose to make Lord Rathari his servant instead of just killing him - a bit in the spirit of what Darth Tanathon also says, "A Sith is nothing without a power base"

 

Edited June 14, 2012 by Callaron

[TheVoiceXXL]

Have not studied History much huh? In WW2...which side was bad and lost?

 

I'd say both sides were bad and humanity lost.

[MayorSteven]

I think the look / sound of the character plays a big roll in your ability to keep it on the dark path.

I made a male Rattataki Bounty Hunter 2-3 days ago. Body type 3, tattoos covering his face and a large burn mark covers the left side of his head.

Selecting anything other than DS choices feels completely wrong and out of character.

[Jasonito]

I'd say both sides were bad and humanity lost.

 

absolutely, lol good v evil has never existed in reality, it's fiction.

[Dawgtide]

I do the same, all the RPing is in my head I do intend to have a character who isn't quite so righteous just to make things more interesting as even my Sith warrior and Sith inquisitor are goody two shoes. maybe if I make a male character instead of a female one, being outside my gender might help...

 

While, I am good person in real life and had no problem doing light side trooper and consulars. Those were easy. I would recommend trying the Imperial Agent or the Smuggler as dark side. The Imperial Agent can be just vicious as I have done it so far, but actually I found it to be funny at times. It may be hard for you, but try to look at it as a story. I have even heard dark side smugglers can be hilarious at times too. If it needs to be a guy on either, then fine as sometimes men are "tougher".

Edited June 15, 2012 by Dawgtide

[Sunhed]

Ratataki Sorceror is easy for dark side.

So many people giving me lip about 'slave' and 'alien' that I found it really easy to kill. Sure, I made some light choices along the way... things that were 'honourable' or just things in the interest of the Empire. Hell, I recall a light side choice that got me positive rep with Khem... once... but in general it was easy to maintain the rage.

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.

Through passion, I gain strength.

Through strength, I gain power.

Through power, I gain victory.

Through victory, my chains are broken.

The Force shall free me.

If you call me slave one more time I am going to cook you from the inside out.

[Tooli]

I'm a bit disappointed that dark side is equated to evil and light side to good. Isn't this out of context with the lore? According to what I'd heard about the lore, it is passion that leads to the dark side. Passion can be "good", such as love, and "bad", such as hate. There are even some early missions about that where you have to break up the padawan lovers, for instance. It seems to me that the game kinda lost that somewhere along the line.

[islander]

I tried to be ''grey'' on my Assassin.

 

I tried to be ''grey'' on my Mercenary.

 

Every single time i kept on choosing light side choices. This time, i am going to start a character as dark, and STAY dark.

 

It just means you aren't a jerk irl, I'm sure

 

I can't go full dark on any of my Imperial characters. I end up somewhere in the dark 1-2 range. I can't stomach much more then that as it turns out.

[GrandMasterLeon]

well i actually find it not hard however, i choose my sith warrior to become Light Sith as inspiration of the Dark Jedis so going light side for me is very easy