The Emperor vs The Emperor (Palpatine)

[Aurbere]

watch 2:50sec in and go. This is an Inquisitor class spoiler on

 

 

I get the feeling some people just don't Read.

 

The GE had more than just the Death Star, superweapon-wise. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Category%3ASuperweapons

 

Most of the superweapons shown are from the GE.

[ReiKai]

The GE didn't get the Galaxy Gun, Sun Crusher nor World Devastators. Those all came later with the Reborn Sidious and the Imperial Remnant. GE was already finished by then.

[Aurbere]

The GE didn't get the Galaxy Gun, Sun Crusher nor World Devastators. Those all came later with the Reborn Sidious and the Imperial Remnant. GE was already finished by then.

 

I know, but the GE had secret weapons being made that could do as much damage as the Death Star II.

[ReiKai]

I know, but the GE had secret weapons being made that could do as much damage as the Death Star II.

 

"In the process of being made" and "completed for use" are different things though. Even the DS2 wasn't completely finished and it still took them decades to build the first one. The thing is these other weapons were not finished or used by the Galactic Empire during its reign. Not only that but they still fall under all that I explained about the Death Star to begin with; they're pretty much useless in a battle scenario.

 

Sid had world-destroying weapons made for one purpose; fear. He wanted to scare everyone into obeying him. The problem is, as we've seen, it doesn't work. Yeah, it scared people, but it just made the Rebels and others work harder to see the GE destroyed.

[Inzuher]

One on one Vitate would surely win. I know someone can point out that "On wookiepedia it stats that Sidious is the most powerful sith ever!"

 

Well sure breaking it to you, but it says that for Sidious, Plagueis, Vitate and Nihilios....

(EDIT: I’ve read the Plagueis book and he most differently isn’t the most powerful.)

From what I've seen the in the Revan book and all of the stuff I've read about Sidious, Vitate would win big time, he's not even mortal anymore, he's more of a god than a sith.

 

Empire vs. Empire?

 

In all out war the Sith Empire would surely win since they have far more sith on their side. However, one could imagine that Palpatine could find ways to influence the sith empire, had he discovered it before it discovered his empire. However, the sith empire are full of siths plotting against one another, so Palpatine's plotting wouldn't hit unexpected targets like it did on the Republic.

Ofc Palpatine has the Death Star, but it wouldn’t make up much of a difference.

 

Overall I judge that the Sith Empire would win.

[Temeluchus]

One on one Vitate would surely win. I know someone can point out that "On wookiepedia it stats that Sidious is the most powerful sith ever!"

 

Well sure breaking it to you, but it says that for Sidious, Plagueis, Vitate and Nihilios....

(EDIT: I’ve read the Plagueis book and he most differently isn’t the most powerful.)

From what I've seen the in the Revan book and all of the stuff I've read about Sidious, Vitate would win big time, he's not even mortal anymore, he's more of a god than a sith.

 

Empire vs. Empire?

 

In all out war the Sith Empire would surely win since they have far more sith on their side. However, one could imagine that Palpatine could find ways to influence the sith empire, had he discovered it before it discovered his empire. However, the sith empire are full of siths plotting against one another, so Palpatine's plotting wouldn't hit unexpected targets like it did on the Republic.

Ofc Palpatine has the Death Star, but it wouldn’t make up much of a difference.

 

Overall I judge that the Sith Empire would win.

 

This whole topic is opinion based and you are entitled to it, but how in the world can you claim to have read about Palpatine in the EU and think Vitiate is more powerful?

 

Palpatine/Sidious was a Sith swordmaster,mastered all lightsaber forms, defeated Agen Kolar and Saesee Tiin,who were considered 2 of the best Jedi swordsmen of their time,with a single blow each, killed Kit Fisto, fought a powerful Yoda to a draw, and even defeated Luke Skywalker in a duel.

 

He mastered Force Speed,Force Flight,Force Rage,Force Stealth,the most advanced Battle Meditation ever seen, could create wormholes, could mindwipe billions of people at a time,mastered Force Lightning so much that he could call down a Force Strom that killed 50 stormtroopers at once without hurting his own men and by the end he was so powerful he could create new Force powers and was considered the "nexus of the dark side".

 

So far we have seen Vitiate become immortal and very powerful via a dark side ritual, that required unwilling help from other Sith Lords, that wiped out all life and the Force on his planet. We've seen him roll Revan, easily destroy and corrupt the Jedi Strike Force team sent to take him to Tython and redeem him, create the Children of the Emperor and the Voices. We've also seen 2 of his Voices get owned by the JK and by Sel-Makor/the SW. Unless BW pulls some pretty fancy stuff for Vitiate out of their hat in future content, it isn't even close.

 

 

Vitiate is the evil dude who chases you and your high scholl friends around with a mask and knife,trying to kill you because you dared have sex and drink beer in his vicinity. Palpatine is the guy who beats you within an inch of your life,blindfolded,one hand behind his back,drunk,talks about how he took your mother out for a steak dinner and some loving afterwards and then decides to do it all over again the next day and the next.

Edited June 9, 2012 by Temeluchus

[Captain_Zone]

OMG the actual Size Contest between Pally and Vito?

[Inzuher]

It's funny how people on the forum tents to tell me a lot of things that I already know...

This whole topic is opinion based and you are entitled to it, but how in the world can you claim to have read about Palpatine in the EU and think Vitiate is more powerful?

 

Palpatine/Sidious was a Sith swordmaster,mastered all lightsaber forms, defeated Agen Kolar and Saesee Tiin,who were considered 2 of the best Jedi swordsmen of their time,with a single blow each, killed Kit Fisto, fought a powerful Yoda to a draw, and even defeated Luke Skywalker in a duel.

 

He mastered Force Speed,Force Flight,Force Rage,Force Stealth,the most advanced Battle Meditation ever seen, could create wormholes, could mindwipe billions of people at a time,mastered Force Lightning so much that he could call down a Force Strom that killed 50 stormtroopers at once without hurting his own men and by the end he was so powerful he could create new Force powers and was considered the "nexus of the dark side".

 

So far we have seen Vitiate become immortal and very powerful via a dark side ritual, that required unwilling help from other Sith Lords, that wiped out all life and the Force on his planet. We've seen him roll Revan, easily destroy and corrupt the Jedi Strike Force team sent to take him to Tython and redeem him, create the Children of the Emperor and the Voices. We've also seen 2 of his Voices get owned by the JK and by Sel-Makor/the SW. Unless BW pulls some pretty fancy stuff for Vitiate out of their hat in future content, it isn't even close.

 

 

Vitiate is the evil dude who chases you and your high scholl friends around with a mask and knife,trying to kill you because you dared have sex and drink beer in his vicinity. Palpatine is the guy who beats you within an inch of your life,blindfolded,one hand behind his back,drunk,talks about how he took your mother out for a steak dinner and some loving afterwards and then decides to do it all over again the next day and the next.

 

 

 

I'm fully aware that Palpatine have done all that, but he's mere presence didn't corrupt people and he didn't life and study for thousands of years. He was just a man, all though a very powerful and Essenes swapping man.

Besides you can’t judge Vitate from what you’ve seen his Voices do, they have several limitations, among others they’re buddies limitations, and the host limited connection to the force.

However, I can understand why you’re so quick and aggressively jumping to Sidious defense if he’s your favorite sith lord, I had it the same way with a Vader for a long period. However, I think we just accept as the star wars Expanded Universe grow, we’ll see force users that surpass the original siths.

I guess it all comes to one’s personal opinion since there’s no way to know who would be the most powerful, but I would throw my money one Vitate anyways.

Edited June 9, 2012 by Inzuher

[Temeluchus]

It's funny how people on the forum tents to tell me a lot of things that I already know...

 

 

 

 

I'm fully aware that Palpatine have done all that, but he's mere presence didn't corrupt people and he didn't life and study for thousands of years. He was just a man, all though a very powerful and Essenes swapping man.

Besides you can’t judge Vitate from what you’ve seen his Voices do, they have several limitations, among others they’re buddies limitations, and the host limited connection to the force.

However, I can understand why you’re so quick and aggressively jumping to Sidious defense if he’s your favorite sith lord, I had it the same way with a Vader for a long period. However, I think we just accept as the star wars Expanded Universe grow, we’ll see force users that surpass the original siths.

I guess it all comes to one’s personal opinion since there’s no way to know who would be the most powerful, but I would throw my money one Vitate anyways.

 

Sigh, I listed everything to show what we have seen from each of the two to illustrate the levels of power we currently know about them. I'm not judging Vitiate on his Voices, they are just vessels, again, I'm merely listing what we have seen.

 

Sidious is not my favorite Sith Lord, not even in my top 5, but in my opinion he is more powerful than what we have seen from Vitiate so far.

 

You like to take a few shots at me for "jumping to Sidious' defense" but your whole post comes off as defensive and snarky. I clearly said you had your opinions and were entitled to them as I have mine, no need to get angry about it. Relax man and have a nice day.

Edited June 9, 2012 by Temeluchus

[ReiKai]

Honestly, better to avoid the "Sid vs Vitiate" mumbo jumbo. It just starts flame wars. Both did similar things. I won't bother saying who I think is stronger, because one or the other side will not agree and just get bent out of shape for it.

 

If people still wanna argue that, wait a few years until SWTOR either concludes Vitiate's story or we get enough info about him to make an accurate judgement.

[Inzuher]

Sigh, I listed everything to show what we have seen from each of the two to illustrate the levels of power we currently know about them. I'm not judging Vitiate on his Voices, they are just vessels, again, I'm merely listing what we have seen.

 

Sidious is not my favorite Sith Lord, not even in my top 5, but in my opinion he is more powerful than what we have seen from Vitiate so far.

 

You like to take a few shots at me for "jumping to Sidious' defense" but your whole post comes off as defensive and snarky. I clearly said you had your opinions and were entitled to them as I have mine, no need to get angry about it. Relax man and have a nice day.

 

Well that's the problem with text communication, we keep misunderstanding the other persons state of mind. I'm not angry, I'm jumping with joy when I find another star wars geek who counter my lore arguments with other lore arguments

[Temeluchus]

Well that's the problem with text communication, we keep misunderstanding the other persons state of mind. I'm not angry, I'm jumping with joy when I find another star wars geek who counter my lore arguments with other lore arguments

 

Sláinte. I look forward to more lore discussions with you. Now let's get this sucker back on track.

Edited June 9, 2012 by Temeluchus

[Highsis]

After reading through every single post in this thread I am completely convinced that Darth Sidious is way more powerful than the sith emperor maybe by 100 folds.

 

However, his strength seem so contrived and stupid if I might add. He was picked up by Darth Plagueis who believed that he and Palpatine can co-exist without following the tradition of the apprentice killing the master. Then Palpatine kills Plagueis in his sleep as he became the emperor. and Anakin was born with potential to become twice as strong as the emperor.

 

Synthetically, Sidious's power in EU to sweep planets without needing death star is just so absurd like many marble comic heroes who in theory can lift the earth and vibrate the galaxy by flying around. (I read somewhere that Hulk can lift the earth..) Damn childish and idiotic. Where's coherency of those EU characters with the movie? I freaking hate those types of inappropriate and incoherent power inflation. I don't know if EU novels/comics are good quality or not but I would rather read Dragon Ball again which also has its stupid power inflation but also fun characters.

 

What's to stop writers from getting bored and just pulling a god character out of his pocket claiming that this character can annihilate the entire universe by just thoughts alone? Lord nightmare in Slayers, Absolute One in D&D are god-like powerful but they have no characters. I respect Palpatine in the movie but from I what I read on this thread I don't think I will even try reading EU.

 

 

But my feelings aside Darth Sidious is the most powerful sith ever lived, period.

[ReiKai]

Think you mean Marvel, not Marble comics. And anyway, Marvel has a ton of powerhouses. Hulk 'could' lift the Earth. So could a dozen other people, More likely they'd just destroy it. Hulk shattered a planetoid twice the size of the Earth once before and shattered a pocket-dimension with a thunderclap. It shouldn't surprise anyone that characters in marvel can do these things. And Hulk still loses to the Surfer if he ever got a little serious, who'd get bent over Thanos' knee and utterly embarrassed. That's just how it goes.

 

And once more, I'd just leave that entire Sid v Vitiate argument alone. I am completely biased against Sid and, even if I weren't, the sheer level of wankery given to him would just repel any interest I'd ever have in the character. I just honestly can't even begin to utter my sheer distaste towards the awful writing job that'd gone on with him and much of the EU surrounding him. But again, that's just my feelings on the matter.

[Highsis]

Think you mean Marvel, not Marble comics. And anyway, Marvel has a ton of powerhouses. Hulk 'could' lift the Earth. So could a dozen other people, More likely they'd just destroy it. Hulk shattered a planetoid twice the size of the Earth once before and shattered a pocket-dimension with a thunderclap. It shouldn't surprise anyone that characters in marvel can do these things. And Hulk still loses to the Surfer if he ever got a little serious, who'd get bent over Thanos' knee and utterly embarrassed. That's just how it goes.

 

And once more, I'd just leave that entire Sid v Vitiate argument alone. I am completely biased against Sid and, even if I weren't, the sheer level of wankery given to him would just repel any interest I'd ever have in the character. I just honestly can't even begin to utter my sheer distaste towards the awful writing job that'd gone on with him and much of the EU surrounding him. But again, that's just my feelings on the matter.

 

I share your sentiment but how did you enjoy 'Marvel' comics if you have distastes for character like Sid, or was it the writing you disliked? I absolutely hate powerhouse characters without proper plot necessitation and narrative coherence, which means I hate both Sid and Luke in EU and American super hero comic characters like Hulk and Superman.

 

The sith emperor at least couldn't consume billions of lives without ritual or destroy fleets with sheer force. If a character does that, that's an utter garbage and distortion of the lore/setting.

[Velaran]

Vitiate, I think. Sidious was crazy powerful and all, but he didn't:

 

A. Achieve immortality.

 

B. Have the end goal of eating all existance.

 

C. Drive people insane just by being near them.

[darthkargtor]

Emperor vs emperor- Endless war as both escape death with their endless immortal tricks.

Army vs army- GE although they have the advantage of sith there leaders do not care for them and they also like the early GE cannon t sustain a war with just humans that they currently have.

Navy vs Navy- Although the SE has a lot of firepower the GE has the advantage beacuse the writers of the post ROTJ believe bigger is better this is why we have incredible sized battle cruisers that are bigger than planets most notibly the Eclipse so big it cannon t be destroyed not even by its own death star lazer, but only by luke skywalker who will not be involved in this scenario.

Sith vs Sith SE wins with numbers and a large ammount of powerfull lords who rival those of the GE vader would bt able to stop them.

Imperial guard-Draw although the GE;s are more trained the SE are driven by the will of the empire and will fight to the last man to bring victory as such they will be able to fight the GEs guards.

Population-the sith empire wins as they have a loyal people where as the GE would have massive revolts and defections much like the roman empire allowing the SE to overwhelm the GE during the early states of the war and most likely aquire advanced technology to even the battle field.

[Maaruin]

I'm going to go over a few points here that some people have been on about.

 

Sorry for being late to answer.

 

1a. GE having more advanced technology. This is false. While the GE may be around 3500yrs in the future of SWTOR, Technology did not change much and, in fact, many of the technological marvels in SWTOR do not survive into the future, and as the Bane Trilogy, Knight Erant and Post-RotJ books have shown, technology didn't evolve nor even increased that much and only advanced scarcely in a few distinct areas, most of which didn't cover weapons technology.

 

That seems correct, they seem to be on the same technological level.

 

1b. Another thing to note that, while it is true that the GE had superweapons that could destroy worlds, such as the Death Star, the Sith Empire was not without its own superweapons, which were drastically more useful in fleet combat that the Death Star has ever been. The DS' main weapon showed us 2 things. It could either; A) Blow up a planet or B) Destroy a single capital ship. Destroying a planet destroys a valuable resource, which may hurt the opposing side, but also does harm to the Conquering side as it cannot claim that resource even if they win.

 

 

The Sith Inquisitor funds and finishes the creation of the Silencer Weapon, an energy weapon mounted into a Capital Ship with enough power to destroy an entire fleet of ships in one shot. This is far more effective in battle than the Death Star, as not only could it decimate the GE's forces rather quickly, it could also be mass produced for every Captial Ship in the SE's fleet.

 

Destroying a planet doesn't only destroy resources. Imagine Dromund Kaas destroyed. And yes, if the republic fleet can break through to Dromund Kaas, the Death Star can do it too. The Emperor's voice could be killed in one shot, Malgus could be killed in one shot.

 

 

The Silencer is indeed dangerous, but the SE didn't manage to crush the republic with it. You also have to use the Silencer from a certain distance. And if I remember the video correctly, the destroyed fleet was pretty small.

 

 

2. Another thing to note on technology are the Sun Razer's, which were shown in the Lost Suns comics. Essentially they were psuedo-Star Forges created by the Empire during the 10yr Cold War period after the Treaty of Coruscant. Seven were made in all, and just one of them was capable of producing 2-3 Super Weaponized Capital Ships in a year, with such things as mass gravity weapons that could rip the surface of a planet apart.

 

So 21 of these Ships in one year. The GE ships might not be as super weaponized, but Kuat Drive Yards could probably create far much more ships in a year. The GE also has Corellia and all the major galactic companies.

 

3. The GE has greater numbers. In this, there is no way to really tell. While the GE had control over a larger portion of the galaxy, it started with less. Sidious had to rebuild forces with the remaining Clone Troopers at the end of the Galactic Civil War, which had virtually bankrupted the Republic and both the Republic and Separatist Armies had suffered major losses during the war. Also, while the Hutt Cartel cooperates with the GE, it does so in a Business-like manner. AS long as the GE stayed out of Hutt business, the Hutts wouldn't interfere with the Empire in any way. The only reason neither the Republic, nor Sith nor Galactic Empire has seen fit to try and assimilate Hutt space is because of the Hutts' massive financial resources, which were made clearly evident in the EU when the Hutts financed the construction of the 3rd Death Star.

 

Well, remember that the SE built an Armada for 1300 years and wasn't able to destroy the republic, even with the Mandalorians help. The Republic on the other hand didn't have that much after the Jedi Civil War.

 

We also would have to set a time frame when we send them against each other. Right after the clone wars and the Great Galacitc War? GE seems to be far more capable of replacing it's losses. End of the Cold War and shortly before Episode IV? Again, GE could build far more ships in 20 years than the SE. But if you give the SE 1300 years, they would probably have more numbers.

 

4. One thing to clear up is something of a spoiler. Don't read if you haven't played far into SWTOR.

 

The Jedi Knight doesn't kill the Sith Emperor. What the Republic characters do is kill the Voice of the Emperor, which is more something of an Avatar. It is only one Aspect of the Sith Emperor himself that he uses to control the Empire without needing to interact with it. This resulted in Vitiate needing to recoup himself and prepare a new vessel to act as his Voice. To which Darth Baras had it trapped on Voss, allowing him to set plans into motion to get himself recognized as 'The Voice' in the True Voices absence and assume control of the Empire.

 

True, that one goes for the Sith Emperor.

 

5. The Imperial Guard. Not much difference between the two expect maybe one thing; The Guard in the SE become stronger they closer they are to the Sith Emperor. They are in some manner tied to the Sith Emperor and do not take orders from either the Dark Council nor the Moffs not the Ministers. They take orders only from the Sith Emperor, or more accurately, from The Voice

 

I think I would even say the Imperal Guard is stronger. They seem to have a lot of Sith in their ranks.

 

6. Sid convincing other Sith to join him. Not likely going to happen. Not only is the Inquisitor immensely powerful, but is also a masterful manipulator as well, and the Warrior has shown surprising intelligence in situations. As for the Dark Council on that, despite all each trying to vy for power, they do secretly and covertly. Any direct action to seize power generally ends up with the Sith Emperor laying the smack down on the whole lot of them. Of course their may be defectors, like those who would join Malgus. However, those would be the Weak Sith who are looking for an immediate gain and are generally disposable. None of the major Sith, like the Dread Masters, would join Sidious.

 

Well, I think maybe the Inquisitor himself would side with Sidious (in secret). Also his manipulation skills don't come close to Palpatines. I mean, Palpatine controlled the two factions of the Clone Wars.

How many of the Dark Council didn't do anything against Baras? All except one. Lord Grathan was able to cause major problems on Dromund Kaas. The Dread Masters also don't seem to be that loyal to the Empire, if several Operations will include them.

 

If Palpatine would foresee the Emperor's plan and tell some of the Sith, the would probably be far more motivated to side with him.

 

7. And that's another note. The SE has vastly more Force Users than the GE does. The Dread Masters, for one, could decimate armadas by making the crewmen of everyone in the GE's fleets spaz out and become crippled with brain fragging terror.

 

Vastly more Force Users is the main advantage of the SE. But also it's main disadvantage because of their constant plotting against each other.

Even if Sidious doesn't manage to have some of them side with him, he might just let some DC members declare a Kaggath against other powerful Sith or even against each other.

 

Population-the sith empire wins as they have a loyal people where as the GE would have massive revolts and defections much like the roman empire allowing the SE to overwhelm the GE during the early states of the war and most likely aquire advanced technology to even the battle field.

 

The SE population doesn't seem much more loyal than the GE. I mean: Slave rebellion on Dromund Kaas, Balmorran resistance, Malgus,...

Both Empire'S have their problems with rebels.

Edited June 10, 2012 by Maaruin

[ReiKai]

Destroying a planet doesn't only destroy resources. Imagine Dromund Kaas destroyed. And yes, if the republic fleet can break through to Dromund Kaas, the Death Star can do it too. The Emperor's voice could be killed in one shot, Malgus could be killed in one shot.

 

True enough, but anyone could do that with just a nuke on Kaas City. But there are so many ways to stop the Death Star. Plus there is the fact that, despite the DS having hyperdrives, it's still Very. Very. Slow. And because of its size, as we've seen with the Malevolence in TCW, it can't take the more direct hyperspace routes. It pretty has to go Around Everything due to its own size and mass. Which is why even during the assault on Yavin, the DS had to come in from out of the system and trudge along towards Yavin's moon. It couldn't jump in-system because it could be affected by the gravitational tidal forces of the nearby planets and moons in the system. It's one of the DS' biggest weaknesses, that it can't jump directly to its next target.

 

 

Also, as I have mentioned the SE's superweapons, they could stop the Death Star. The DS' primary defense isn't its shields, it's its sheer size and the fleet around it. The Silencer weapon could erradicate the fleet around the Death Star and other ships with the Gravity Weapons could literally pull the Death Star apart, section by section. All I'm saying for this is that the SE has more options in how to take down the Death Star than the Rebels did, who had limited resources at their disposal. As for the Silencer's use on the Republic, we don't know how it's going to be used in the War yet because it came late in the Inquisitor storyline, just before going to Corellia. We may see how it affects things in the latest novel this fall or the next expansion.

 

 

So 21 of these Ships in one year. The GE ships might not be as super weaponized, but Kuat Drive Yards could probably create far much more ships in a year. The GE also has Corellia and all the major galactic companies.

 

GE also had, if I recall from TFU, Raxus Prime where it would melt down metals on the planet to be fired into an orbital station and used as raw materials for building Star Destroyers. However-

 

Having gotten to lv50 on my Imp toons, it seems the Sith Empire takes control of Corellia and all its industry. I haven't played far in Pub side so I don't know how that world story went for them.

 

 

Well, remember that the SE built an Armada for 1300 years and wasn't able to destroy the republic, even with the Mandalorians help. The Republic on the other hand didn't have that much after the Jedi Civil War.

 

We also would have to set a time frame when we send them against each other. Right after the clone wars and the Great Galacitc War? GE seems to be far more capable of replacing it's losses. End of the Cold War and shortly before Episode IV? Again, GE could build far more ships in 20 years than the SE. But if you give the SE 1300 years, they would probably have more numbers.

 

Well let's look at things here. Vitiate took the surviving Sith people after the Republic tried to utterly wipe them all out to the last man, woman and child, made them drift to 10yrs so he could manipulate them all into making him their absolute ruler, and had to settle on Dromund Kaas and completely rebuild their society from scratch. It was only after centuries of construction and dedication that they could start building their fleet and had to conquer world fter world in the Unknown Regions in order to build up their power base.

 

On the other side we have the Republic that has had its troubles. After the Jedi Civil war though, it had 300yrs to recover its loses, rebuild the Jedi Order and was, for all intents and purposes, complete at peace during all that time without anymore trouble from the Mando's or other major powers. Not until the Sith Empire returned. Which, as we know, could've destroyed the Republic three centuries earlier had Revan not delayed them. Still, during those 3 centuries while the Sith Empire was still hidden from the Republic, they were still fightin and consolidating worlds into their Empire to build their strength, which meant they were constantly in conflict. Not to mention that they still had infighting of their own on occasion, what with Sith being Sith after all.

 

Despite these things, the SE Could have defeated the Republic during the Sacking of Coruscant. Malgus even says this. If they had bombarded the planet, that would've been pretty much it. Coruscant was theirs and the Jedi Temple was in ruins. They could've crushed the Republic right there. However, the Emperor instead offered the treaty and used Courscant as a bargaining chip to get those seven outlying systems that were given to the seven surviving members of the Dark Council (during that time), which is where the Sun Razor's would be constructed. So, the SE could very well have won. But as we all know, Vitiate doesn't care about dominance. He was after something else entirely, which is one of the reasons why he's been out of touch with the Dark Council for so many years.

 

Well, I think maybe the Inquisitor himself would side with Sidious (in secret). Also his manipulation skills don't come close to Palpatines. I mean, Palpatine controlled the two factions of the Clone Wars.

How many of the Dark Council didn't do anything against Baras? All except one. Lord Grathan was able to cause major problems on Dromund Kaas. The Dread Masters also don't seem to be that loyal to the Empire, if several Operations will include them.

 

I would agree except that Sid didn't manage this all on his own. He had an entire power base that was prepared in secret by Darth Bane a thousand years earlier for the express purpose of keeping the Sith Order hidden from the galaxy while at the same time gathering information and resources necessary for the destruction of the Jedi. The Inquisitor starts from scratch to get where it is, while Sid had other Sith prepping the way for him a thousand years in advance. Sid also had the advantage in that, until Maul showed up on Tatooine, everyone believed the Sith were gone forever. Sid had the advantage of being Anonymous in the galaxy. The Inquisitor didn't get that.

 

As for Manipulation and Trickery, I'd have to actually say the Imperial Agent beats them both.

 

If Palpatine would foresee the Emperor's plan and tell some of the Sith, the would probably be far more motivated to side with him.

 

Big if there. Hell, Thanaton knew Vitiate's plan. He told the Dark Council. They're still all kept in line. After all-

 

In the Revan novel, when just two Dark Council members 300yrs ago tried pulling stunts in the Empire, Vitiate killed ALL of them to set an example. Which was basically "You don't mean jack to me. I can replace you as many times as I want so fall in line or I kill you."

 

 

Vastly more Force Users is the main advantage of the SE. But also it's main disadvantage because of their constant plotting against each other.

Even if Sidious doesn't manage to have some of them side with him, he might just let some DC members declare a Kaggath against other powerful Sith or even against each other.

 

That would only work if the SE wasn't focused on conquring the GE. As long as they have a focused objective, they'll work together. Only when the GE is defeated would they start turning on each other (secretly) to acquire greater power.