Forced to play focus

[Smashbrother]

You can't imagine how wrong you are.

Do you know what the difference is here? I tried both. You didn't.

In my wz's people cc the leaping juggs and sents. They knockback, root, fear, force push, you name it. They vanish, force speed run away, carbonize, pull you in fire or acid pit immediately, toss you off the ledge, use roll in cover so u cannot jump again the second u go back to reopen, and such stuff. But yeah, you miss just 2-3 sweeps. So, you are either straight out lying, you participate in pure zerg fests, or the pvp lvl on your server is low.

But again, think whatever you want. Play the way you like.

 

Since when does unremitting prevent players from force speeding, or vanishing away? Since when does it prevent people from going into cover? Unremitting doesn't even help against half the things you list still. Gratz at not knowing what the talent does.

 

I'm in the best Republic pvp guild on Swiftsure (perhaps even best pvp server), which is the 2nd biggest pvp server after Fatman. I know when to use my sweeps and not miss most of the time because I'm not a baddie.

 

You can only do sweep bombs twice a minute in your crappy build, while a 31 focus spec can do them 5 times a minute. So in order for your build to put out more damage, a 31 focus spec player would have to miss 4 out of 5 sweeps every minute. Nobody is that bad.

Edited June 11, 2012 by Smashbrother

[alcek]

How could i know what a talent does, i can't even read, you know .

Surprise - to land the guaranteed crits you need to jump. On top of that you need to stay where you are for 1.5s, the gcd, and magically avoid the cc. Because smart pvp guys know what is coming and it isn't so hard to avoid it. But you like it to be tossed off bridges in hutt, and spend 80% of the wz running. Or at last get to that pesky sniper on the balcony in civil war, just to find yourself looking not so clever on the ground again.

The vanish and speed was to point to you that due to such moves you miss far, far more than 2-3 sweeps a battle. Of course unremitting has nothing to do with it. It helps on what i stated in the previous paragraph.

Telling you one more time - call me whatever you want, claim the build "bad", do whatever you want. I really don't care.

Edited June 11, 2012 by alcek

[ACiDxCHRiST]

I'm really upset that the class I picked as my main, and otherwise really enjoy, has turned out to be a terrible choice for a DPS class. From the outset I intended to go straight DPS. All my traits and gear are optimized for DPS. Even though I do a good job as far as Guardians go, and shine at certain moments, overall my DPS contribution cannot match that of an equally good DPS character from other classes.

 

I wish the class description had said > Choose this class if you want to be a tank (though a ranged tank is preferable), but only take this class for DPS if you play solo mostly and are a very casual player, but DON'T take it if you intend to be part of a guild that is going to do the high end Ops. You will be told Guardians aren't adequate for DPS, and left on the bench. : P

 

Well you seem to be a perfect fit for your guild since both you and your guild seem to think Guardian/Jugg DPS isn't very good.

 

I am in the The Remnant (#4 World - 16-Man Hard Mode EC Clear) and as a Vengeance Juggernaut, I am 1st or 2nd DPS almost every encounter in our raids. I am always number one DPS on Kephess due to the sheer amount of AoE whoop-*** I can put on all the adds. On any other fight, if I am not the top DPS, I am within 2-3% damage of #1 at most. All DPS classes are represented in our 16-man raid group except for Operatives and Assassins. Our sole Assassin is specced Tank and our two Operatives are specced Heals.

 

If you can't reach or surpass the numbers that other DPS classes are putting out as a DPS specced Guardian/Juggernaut then I would say you have a L2P issue and not a class balance/game design issue. Our guild closely monitors and communicates with other hardcore SWTOR progression raiding guilds (what is left of them anyways) and the numbers that our DPS are hitting are more or less the same as what everyone else is hitting.

 

I am not stating all this to brag or toot my own horn; rather, I don't want people seeing your post and thinking Juggernaut/Guardians are worthless DPS because they are ACTUALLY one of the best DPS classes.

[Smashbrother]

How could i know what a talent does, i can't even read, you know .

Surprise - to land the guaranteed crits you need to jump. On top of that you need to stay where you are for 1.5s, the gcd, and magically avoid the cc. Because smart pvp guys know what is coming and it isn't so hard to avoid it. But you like it to be tossed off bridges in hutt, and spend 80% of the wz running. Or at last get to that pesky sniper on the balcony in civil war, just to find yourself looking not so clever on the ground again.

The vanish and speed was to point to you that due to such moves you miss far, far more than 2-3 sweeps a battle. Of course unremitting has nothing to do with it. It helps on what i stated in the previous paragraph.

Telling you one more time - call me whatever you want, claim the build "bad", do whatever you want. I really don't care.

 

And like I said, a 31 focus player would have to miss 4 out of 5 sweeps every minute in order for your build to be better at dps. You're telling me that you think people are THAT bad they can only land 1/5?

 

Oh and only bads will open with leap. Good players know to just run up and let them use their knockback, THEN you leap and bomb them.

 

People have been using 31 focus since before the game released, and bombing enemies to death without unremitting. You NEEDING unremitting to sweep bomb players just makes me luls.

Edited June 11, 2012 by Smashbrother

[alcek]

Obviously your enemies aren't that good. I understand now.

[JamieKirby]

The damage output of defence/vigilance get's further nerfed by 6% in 1.3. Single saber mastery now gives 3% defence chance instead of 6% melee damage while using soresu form

 

Well, considering the fact that if you are a dps guardian, you should be using the Shien Stance anyway, all bioware needs to do is fix the guardian/juggernaut class to actually have the damage mitigation that it describes on your character screen.

 

I mean, i had 26% damage mitigation and it really didn't make a difference if i have 13.5% or 26%, the dps of Vigiliance is fine, but the time it takes to get there is too long, when all the enemies you face, get there pretty instantly.

 

The reason it hasn't been fixed is because alot of the players like a challenge and a gimped class is the best challenge they could want, so they use the L2P crap to avoid the class being fixed and the pitiful ability they gave us to be more survivable.....for 10 seconds and then its back to dying alot.

 

I guess bioware never play the game, they just test it out.

[Roxax]

I would.

 

Had a sorc the other day spamming Force Storm as the defending team was leaving their spawn in Voidstar, ruining any attempts at mezzes in order for us to cap the door. We told him to stop, his reply, "look at the scoreboard when its over". Sure enough, he had top damage. We lost.

 

See when I go for damage only, it's not really a "Looky! I spammed an ability and got top damage! I'm so cool!" I like to take the slayer approach, you know the whole "The best defense is a good offense" type of thing? My logic is if I'm stomping people halfway from point A to point B (whatever node it is), then I'm keeping them away, making it easier on the defenders. I look at my damage and determine how well I did that based on the numbers.

[Jageera]

Roll a Sent if damage is the only thing on your brain. We've got more taunts than any other class in the game and if you are not utilizing them, you're bad. Plain and simple.

[orillah]

what do you mean saying guardians have more taunts then anyone?

[Piddelito]

Roll a Sent if damage is the only thing on your brain. We've got more taunts than any other class in the game and if you are not utilizing them, you're bad. Plain and simple.

 

Agreed. The bitterness from the dps hounds towards a pure tank class is astounding.

 

guard·ian noun \ˈgär-dē-ən\

 

Definition of GUARDIAN

 

1

: one that guards : custodian

 

For me, it is all in the name. My role as a guardian in PvP is to stay near the healer and/or dps and make sure they survive. If topping the dps chart would get my jollies off, I would have rolled another class better suited for the task and avoid the bitterness altogether. And I would certainly not be crying at a forum about it.

[Sabredance]

For me, it is all in the name. My role as a guardian in PvP is to stay near the healer and/or dps and make sure they survive. If topping the dps chart would get my jollies off, I would have rolled another class better suited for the task and avoid the bitterness altogether. And I would certainly not be crying at a forum about it.

 

For me it is all about Single Lightsaber - the most iconic thing there is and visually more appealing to me.

 

If there was the option to play a Single Saber Sentinel i would switch immediately.

[Jageera]

what do you mean saying guardians have more taunts then anyone?

Guardian Leap.

[Underpowered]

Guardian Leap.

 

Calling Guardian Leap a taunt isn't accurate in the truest sense of the term. But the effect is somewhat similar, granted. I would say it's closer to a guard than a taunt.

Edited June 12, 2012 by Underpowered

[Jageera]

Calling Guardian Leap a taunt isn't accurate in the truest sense of the term. But the effect is somewhat similar, granted. I would say it's closer to a guard than a taunt.

Has pretty much the same effect as taunt, lasts as long as taunt, it is a taunt.

 

Either way, if it's not being used, the player's bad.

Edited June 12, 2012 by Jageera

[Dracosz]

Im in a fairly competitive pvp guild that is preparing for rateds forming its teams and culling off Specs and classes that underperform

I've played as a vigilance guardian mostly and really enjoy the spec In pvp but i feel in order to be viable in pvp I have to roll focus

The damage difference between the 2 specs is quite large and focus outperforms vigilance in every

Aspect

As focus I'm getting 5-6k force Sweeps dispatch numbers are larger thant vigilance even with the 60% to crit

Master strike hits harder blade Storm hits harder

In vigilance everything hits much lower numbers I'm to lazy to go into to much detail but I feel that vigilance needs a buff to bring it in line with focus both trees are dps trees and the gap between the 2 is to large

 

Please look at these 2 specs and close the gap before rateds

 

 

Viglance/Vengeance have far better utility and survivability than rage/focus at the moment. Not to mention that they are more rage efficient and far better at target stacking in a team fight due to unstoppable/unremitting. You can make the argument that you will see 6k crits every 12 seconds, but vengeance has THREE abilities that hit nearly as hard and in far more rapid succession. Coupled with savagery/force rush, there isn't a lot that can compete with a well-played vengeance juggernaut.

 

Also, the change to SSM doesn't hurt vengeance at all (unless you play a hybrid spec, in which case you're SoL).

[Dracosz]

See when I go for damage only, it's not really a "Looky! I spammed an ability and got top damage! I'm so cool!" I like to take the slayer approach, you know the whole "The best defense is a good offense" type of thing? My logic is if I'm stomping people halfway from point A to point B (whatever node it is), then I'm keeping them away, making it easier on the defenders. I look at my damage and determine how well I did that based on the numbers.

 

When it comes down to it, rateds are going to be about winning games. You can tout all the damage you want, but rating changes will be based on who wins and who loses. The *best offense is the best defense* approach only *really* works if you're playing against terrible players.

[Veeius]

You play focus so you can bring in fat aoe crits. W/o the 31 talent, you're not doing your job. If you want unremitting, go vig or do a vig/hybrid mix. You'll be far far more effective.

 

Also, sweeps missing due to KBs, CC is an issue for ALL specs, not just 31 focus.

 

While I wouldn't do it w/o 31 points in the tree, it CAN be done. All you're giving up is force crush, which, while it does have the shortest cd, it is still only 1 of 3 ways to max your force sweeps. That said, I wouldn't do it BECAUSE force crush has the lowest CD.

[Dracosz]

While I wouldn't do it w/o 31 points in the tree, it CAN be done. All you're giving up is force crush, which, while it does have the shortest cd, it is still only 1 of 3 ways to max your force sweeps. That said, I wouldn't do it BECAUSE force crush has the lowest CD.

 

Lining up force crush ticks with a sweep can lead to much larger bursts than you think. Not getting it is purely detrimental to anyone that want's to deal dps. Unstoppable (unremitting) is good, but getting it does not outweigh losing your cornerstone ability.

[Roxax]

Roll a Sent if damage is the only thing on your brain. We've got more taunts than any other class in the game and if you are not utilizing them, you're bad. Plain and simple.

 

I have a Mara, and I wasn't referring to JUST my guardian. I was referring to EVERY class I play, unless it's a healer. Also, I'm level 19, I have 1 taunt, which I use frequently. I'm bad how?

[Jageera]

I have a Mara, and I wasn't referring to JUST my guardian. I was referring to EVERY class I play, unless it's a healer. Also, I'm level 19, I have 1 taunt, which I use frequently. I'm bad how?

Shoo. Baby bracketers need not comment.

[Aerion]

Roll a Sent if damage is the only thing on your brain. We've got more taunts than any other class in the game and if you are not utilizing them, you're bad. Plain and simple.

 

Please tell me that you're kidding, I'm really getting sick of that statement getting posted everytime DPS Guardians are being discussed. When you choose an AC labeled as being able to be a DPS, put 31 points into one of its DPS trees and then turn out an Off Tank something about that classes design is horrible off.

Come to think of it, the Guardian, especially the Vigilance Guardian, starts to remind me of the Paladin from WoW classic, it fulfils a viable role, but sadly it isn't the role it should be fulfiling.

[Darkshadz]

Please tell me that you're kidding, I'm really getting sick of that statement getting posted everytime DPS Guardians are being discussed. When you choose an AC labeled as being able to be a DPS, put 31 points into one of its DPS trees and then turn out an Off Tank something about that classes design is horrible off.

Come to think of it, the Guardian, especially the Vigilance Guardian, starts to remind me of the Paladin from WoW classic, it fulfils a viable role, but sadly it isn't the role it should be fulfiling.

 

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog/d6dc9b15-2e10-4b47-af3d-dd84e3548b0b/overview#d=0,f=103,b=1

 

Jubei is the vigilance guardian. As you can see, vigilance guardians can dps.

 

/thread

Edited June 15, 2012 by Darkshadz

[Jageera]

Please tell me that you're kidding, I'm really getting sick of that statement getting posted everytime DPS Guardians are being discussed. When you choose an AC labeled as being able to be a DPS, put 31 points into one of its DPS trees and then turn out an Off Tank something about that classes design is horrible off.

Come to think of it, the Guardian, especially the Vigilance Guardian, starts to remind me of the Paladin from WoW classic, it fulfils a viable role, but sadly it isn't the role it should be fulfiling.

No, I'm not kidding. Two of the three taunts do not trigger GCD, the other is a second (or third) leap, and all of them are free. Again, if you're not using them, you're bad.

[Aerion]

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog/d6dc9b15-2e10-4b47-af3d-dd84e3548b0b/overview#d=0,f=103,b=1

 

Jubei is the vigilance guardian. As you can see, vigilance guardians can dps.

No, I'm not kidding. Two of the three taunts do not trigger GCD, the other is a second (or third) leap, and all of them are free. Again, if you're not using them, you're bad.

 

Please read my post before you reply to it, I didn't say that Vigilance Guardians can't DPS nor that they shouldn't use taunts in the current situation, I said that it is nonsensical to say that everything is fine because they make decent Off Tanks, while they should be pure DPS.

Also Darkshadz, from the context it was obvious that i was talking about PvP, posting a combat log that shows one Guardian topping the DPS chart in one PvE situation doesn't really work to debilitate what I wrote.

[Darkshadz]

Please read my post before you reply to it, I didn't say that Vigilance Guardians can't DPS nor that they shouldn't use taunts in the current situation, I said that it is nonsensical to say that everything is fine because they make decent Off Tanks, while they should be pure DPS.

Also Darkshadz, from the context it was obvious that i was talking about PvP, posting a combat log that shows one Guardian topping the DPS chart in one PvE situation doesn't really work to debilitate what I wrote.

 

I partially get what you're saying now. It does make sense that a class with taunts can temporarly offtank even if they are specced dps. DPS scoundrels can temporarly offheal if the healer is in trouble. As for PVP, no where in your post you were speaking about PVP. If so, what's your complaint?

 

What I don't get is why you're complaining about vigilance guardians, or should I say, all the classes who can spec for either damage or tanking/healing. It doesn't make those classes OP and they can't fullfill the 2nd role effectively if they are not specced for it.

Edited June 15, 2012 by Darkshadz