RiChess Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 (edited) With terminal velocity passively restoring 8 heat every 6 sec.... now managing heat is harder. Before I had 41% crit chance + 15% crit boost on tracers from set bonus, which gives me 56% crit chance on tracers overall. I see chains of 4 or 5 crits all the time with my setup. That's about 32 heat saved over a ~7-10s period. Now I'm nerfed down to only 8 heat saved over the same timeline? Where does anyone get "improved heat management" out of any of this? I could maybe see it being a tier 1 or 2 perk so pyrotech builds could get some relief for the laughable heat management that tree has (read: none). You made my tank the new worst tank in the game and nerfed my main DPS BW. Edited June 6, 2012 by RiChess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hakkas Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 (edited) We can get 8 heat back every 3 seconds, thats 16-24 during 7-10 seconds, not 32. If your gonna whine about stuff atleast know what your talking about, If they changed Terminal velocity to this then yes its a nerf, even giving us 30% more armor pen wont make it any better but hopefully this doesnt go trough. Edited June 6, 2012 by Hakkas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Areaz Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 They just need to tweak the ICD for it. 4s or 4.5s would be much better, but 6s is pretty bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerro Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 They just need to tweak the ICD for it. 4s or 4.5s would be much better, but 6s is pretty bad. After testing on the PTS, it really is not bad at all. Since you use Rail Shot a lot more, and Unload seems to REALLY proc like its supposed to, I didn't really notice a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerro Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 We can get 8 heat back every 3 seconds, thats 16-24 during 7-10 seconds, not 32. If your gonna whine about stuff atleast know what your talking about, If they changed Terminal velocity to this then yes its a nerf, even giving us 30% more armor pen wont make it any better but hopefully this doesnt go trough. Its 8 heat back every 6sec, unless they changed it since this morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ifrit Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 How are we supposed to take this post serious if you can't even do basic math correct? 32 heat in 10 seconds? LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hakkas Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Its 8 heat back every 6sec, unless they changed it since this morning. On PTS yes, I was referring to OP:s statement of TV right now about getting back 32 heat every 7-10 seconds. Your saying your using RS more, have they decreased the cd on RS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerro Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 On PTS yes, I was referring to OP:s statement of TV right now about getting back 32 heat every 7-10 seconds. Your saying your using RS more, have they decreased the cd on RS? You get 2 stacks of Tracer Lock per Tracer Missile, up from 1. So for every 3 Tracer Missiles you cast, you can get get a 5stack Rail Shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrooperSev Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 You get 2 stacks of Tracer Lock per Tracer Missile, up from 1. So for every 3 Tracer Missiles you cast, you can get get a 5stack Rail Shot. But the cd on railshot wasn't lowered, so you have to find filler moves that will increase heat use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerro Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 (edited) But the cd on railshot wasn't lowered, so you have to find filler moves that will increase heat use. Unload is a nice filler move since it procs quite a bit... and since its a channel, you vent heat during it. After spending time on the Target Dummy on the PTS, I can assure you that these heat changes are hardly noticeable. If I'm not having issues, you shouldn't be either. Edited June 7, 2012 by Aerro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swaggz Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Unload is a nice filler move since it procs quite a bit... and since its a channel, you vent heat during it. After spending time on the Target Dummy on the PTS, I can assure you that these heat changes are hardly noticeable. If I'm not having issues, you shouldn't be either. Not going to disagree with this, just picking your brain, but if the heat changes are hardly noticable as you put it, then what was the reason for the change since BW stated that they wanted to improve our resource management.?.?.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acnoj Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Aerro is right, the change in heat management is minimal. Simulation Craft has Terminal Velocity procing on average every 6 seconds, with 32% crit (47% on TM) in a static fight (target dummy). Since you have to move a bit in real fights which can effect your number of Tracers and Unloads, most of us will vent more heat with this change. People who have heavily stacked crit may vent slightly less but there's good news for you too: stacking crit heavily is reducing your DPS regardless. Get more power, do more damage, and embrace this change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiChess Posted June 7, 2012 Author Share Posted June 7, 2012 How are we supposed to take this post serious if you can't even do basic math correct? 32 heat in 10 seconds? LOL. My bad I started reading the patch notes and started doing "angry math" in my head. And totally forgot about the 3s CD on the current TV. Even so the changes halve the potential heat savings of the current TV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaceen Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 (edited) My bad I started reading the patch notes and started doing "angry math" in my head. And totally forgot about the 3s CD on the current TV. Even so the changes halve the potential heat savings of the current TV.* * if you do nothing but spam tracer missile and unload. with the new system, you can use whatever attack you like, heal, CC, or hell, actually move around and still vent heat sure it lowers the maximum potential of heat ventilation, but significantly raises the minimum Edited June 7, 2012 by oaceen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiChess Posted June 7, 2012 Author Share Posted June 7, 2012 * if you do nothing but spam tracer missile and unload. with the new system, you can use whatever attack you like, heal, CC, or hell, actually move around and still vent heat sure it lowers the maximum potential of heat ventilation, but significantly raises the minimum Don't be silly, tracers and unload are the two most (sustained) damaging abilities mercs have, if you want to bash on me for using them constantly be my guest. Obviously I use RS, HSM and other long CD abilities off CD heat allowing though. I could see this change being useful for boss fights that require frequent/constant movement, lost island first boss comes to mind, but for clearing trash and boss fights where you can mostly free cast, the current TV is much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StewieMcScotty Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Stop QQing Heat management is easier then before either play on the pts or trust the people who are or get off the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerro Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 * if you do nothing but spam tracer missile and unload. with the new system, you can use whatever attack you like, heal, CC, or hell, actually move around and still vent heat sure it lowers the maximum potential of heat ventilation, but significantly raises the minimum Sorry but your logic is somewhat flawed and a little incoherent. The new system does not change which abilities you will be using (if that is what you are implying). You will be spamming Tracer Missile and Unload(with Barrage) if HSM and RS are on CD. That is fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillEdwardz Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 I'd say it makes Mercs a little more on level with other classes in the PVP field but it does have potential to be a nerf on the PVE side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrooperSev Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Sorry but your logic is somewhat flawed and a little incoherent. The new system does not change which abilities you will be using (if that is what you are implying). You will be spamming Tracer Missile and Unload(with Barrage) if HSM and RS are on CD. That is fact. The new system does change abilities you can use. Maybe you should actually play it before complaining. With the buff to rs stacks, it becomes less dependent on tm everytime its up. Now if you get all 5 stacks and no unload proc'd and hsm and rs are on cd like you say, using another ability is the way to go. Every class has a set rotation of 4-5 abilities. (the only class I haven't played are warriors) Just, mercs have to use one more than others is the only difference. With the changes currently on 1.3, mercs have more ability to add extra dimensions to their rotations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerro Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 (edited) The new system does change abilities you can use. Maybe you should actually play it before complaining. With the buff to rs stacks, it becomes less dependent on tm everytime its up. Now if you get all 5 stacks and no unload proc'd and hsm and rs are on cd like you say, using another ability is the way to go. Every class has a set rotation of 4-5 abilities. (the only class I haven't played are warriors) Just, mercs have to use one more than others is the only difference. With the changes currently on 1.3, mercs have more ability to add extra dimensions to their rotations. How about YOU read and notice that I am not complaining. I have been telling people that the changes in 1.3 are for the better (not the worse). Again, our rotation doesn't change. Rail Shot is a 15sec cooldown, we mostly had 5stacks before it was off cooldown before the changes... now its gauranteed to use Rail Shot every time its off CD. Please specify why and how our rotation is going to change and add "extra dimensions to our rotation." Remember who you're talking to. I just do not know what other ability you would use instead of Tracer Missile if everything is on CD and you have 5 stacks. (The answer is you will not use any other abilities) Edited June 7, 2012 by Aerro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KerriganGR Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 I think this is a definite nerf. With a crit chance of let's say 33.3% you would(on average) vent 8 heat in 3 hits that is 4.5 sec. Now you vent the same heat in 6 seconds. Please correct me if I am wrong. That said, there is no reason to start qqing before we see how it works out. If it is a nerf though, I'm so gonna rage lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerro Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 I think this is a definite nerf. With a crit chance of let's say 33.3% you would(on average) vent 8 heat in 3 hits that is 4.5 sec. Now you vent the same heat in 6 seconds. Please correct me if I am wrong. That said, there is no reason to start qqing before we see how it works out. If it is a nerf though, I'm so gonna rage lol I have tested (as well as many others) this on the PTS... and we all have noticed no significant changes. There isn't a single fight where you spend the ENTIRE time just standing there. You have to keep in mind the venting will still work while moving around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akam Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 The fact that we can use other abilities other than tracer missile or unload (with barrage) when HSM/RS is on cooldown doesn't mean we should. Tracer missile/Unload is still are hardest hitting abilities. If your argueing that with the new changes we can now use abilities like fusion missile, explosive dart, etc...the answer is we can. It would be DPS loss, but yea we can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerro Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 The fact that we can use other abilities other than tracer missile or unload (with barrage) when HSM/RS is on cooldown doesn't mean we should. Tracer missile/Unload is still are hardest hitting abilities. If your argueing that with the new changes we can now use abilities like fusion missile, explosive dart, etc...the answer is we can. It would be DPS loss, but yea we can. Why would we use abilities that would yield a DPS loss? You can do that now if you wanted to. Instead of using Tracer Missile, just go ahead and use Power Shot. You will experience a DPS loss but do it because you can! ................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akam Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Why would we use abilities that would yield a DPS loss? You can do that now if you wanted to. Instead of using Tracer Missile, just go ahead and use Power Shot. You will experience a DPS loss but do it because you can! ................... I said we can, doesn't mean we should Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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