1.3 Maras/Sents no nerfs?

[HyperThomas]

@ blind arrogance... How are you not wrong?

Hyper is right, one of our DOTs is only removable by a Sage/Sorc ability.

You were wrong about Rebuke I tested it too, directly adds 20% to my 32% damage reduction.

And yeah I have 32% damage reduction in full WH, which you said was a lie... so wrong.

So yeah you were wrong. Just please go, no-one reading this takes you seriously anymore.

At least I know my class... can't wait until we are inevitably nerfed, you clearly have no idea.

 

I am glad we have people with common sense asking for nerfs in the right way rather than blindly calling something OP. Full credit go to those people (not arrogant people like you), especially the ones that accept their class being nerfed, don't see that very often.

 

That's why I rarely come to the forums, people with no clue about what they are talking about are everywhere, who also throw out random insults, info and assumptions. Quite immature really... not that I could expect more from the general PvP community or the general MMO community for that matter.

He will keep denying that he is wrong, and IDGAF because I am done here... it is like talking to an arrogant, unintelligent wall (if walls could have intelligence)

[Achyllis]

Let's clear this up once more since a poster I won't acknowledge doesn't understand his own class.

 

Force Camo: Instant, 45 second cooldown

Obscures yourself with the Force, becoming difficult to detect, reducing your threat towards all enemies . . .

Learned at Level: 30

 

Just like all the other dps agro drops - level 30 with a 45 second CD and reduces threat. The only valid reason for this 45 second CD is the fact that PvE players need an agro drop.

 

Possible solutions:

1) The best solution to this problem - when you flag for PvP turn off all agro drop skills - all classes all the time. Agro dumps are not needed in PvP.

2) Replace Force Camo with a vanilla agro dump that only drops threat for PvE. Rename existing Force Camo, removing the absurd stealth component, and give it a 180 second CD, extend it's duration to 8-10 seconds.

 

If Sent/Mara simply have to have a bonus 50% damage reduction and 30% movement increase every minute then it's clear BW has made this class for beginners to stomp through PvP like they're playing CoD.

 

From a business standpoint - quite a reasonable move with subs plunging.

 

FInally - thank you BW for the forums ignore button. I just put two fools on the list.

Edited June 9, 2012 by Achyllis

[Purre]

still funny as hell that ppl are still crying over marauders/sentinels when there are tank assassins/shadows running around doing about the same dmg and got healing that are *********** retarded

[slowantics]

According to my PvP data, this nerfs my Shadow self-healing by 45%. It is also reduces our mitigation (excluding Internal/Elemental dmg) by 9%.

 

Yet Marauders/Sentinels still get to do MORE healing than us + 3x the dps + have better survivability with insane cds + have better PvP stealth . . .

 

the healing you see at the end of the wz doesnt all go to the sent/mara it heals the whole ops group. little 400 recovery. shadows get a nice 80k self healing at average in wz

 

the only big change that happened to mara/sents is master strike increase. i wouldnt mind if they toned that down.

[Boarg]

Come 1.3 with rated pvp it's not going to be annihilation that's played it's most likely going to be carnage for the on demand burst it has and the abilities it gives when focus firing people down because it's goign to do better in that regard.

 

Currently as it stands you focus fire anyone down as an annihilation marauder our dots are pointless to put up as you can't get a 3 stack off anyways before they die. Even currently if my dots aren't cleansed i'm finding myself using a deadly saber on multiple people, even though it may be 2 stacks on one and 1 on another, because everyone is dying thus it screws with a marauders sustained dps because they have a lot of ramp up.

 

To get the most potential out of your dps as a marauder those bleeds need to get to 3 to start ticking to be fully effective, which is not the case at all in pvp. You can use your pve argument all you want but it's not the same situation in pvp. Oh and pve boss fights are not training dummies either. training dummy fights are a controlled situation with 0 variables atleast a normal boss encounter has a few that can throw off the log some and pvp has even more.

 

It's not a biased manner when i play both classes and know what both are capable of.

 

And yet people swarm to Annihilation now, in an environment that currently favors burst over sustained damage... And you think they're going to switch to Carnage when the environment changes to more heavily favoring sustained damage? You're delusional. People will keep playing Annihilation and it will gain further ground compared to most other dps specs that rely more heavily on resource dumps and cooldown stacking. As ttk's get longer, you'll get those full stacks of bleeds up even more often and be able to apply full long-term pressure even more often.

 

You're pretty much the definition of biased in this thread. You don't make balanced arguments or even allow yourself to see ones that others make fairly. You just volume post and filibuster everything possible in hopes of tilting forum-goer perception towards believing Marauders are fairly balanced and will continue to be so without any changes regardless of facts. You're like an attorney representing their client except with less ability to produce a logical argument.

Edited June 9, 2012 by Boarg

[Sulvan]

still funny as hell that ppl are still crying over marauders/sentinels when there are tank assassins/shadows running around doing about the same dmg and got healing that are *********** retarded

 

Lol here welcome to 1.3 they get nerfed and sents dont lolol

Edited June 9, 2012 by Sulvan

[lexiekaboom]

Should have rolled one when you had the chance bro. No one is FORCING you to play a class other then knight / warrior, so it's your own fault you are getting owned.

 

Guys we asked for BALANCED PVP. What better way to balance PVP then force out every class but one? Don't you see? It's all part of the plan! They are just giving us what we asked for!

[Purre]

Lol here welcome to 1.3 they get nerfed and sents dont lolol

 

yeah i know and im so happy about it

[Plumz]

WAR died because there was 1 FOTM class. Always one. WoW did learn this and ketp switching every xpac a new fotm class (or 2) changed roles. Your choices were either wait for new xpac and draw lottorey to become fotm for the duration or .. reroll. EIther way the game won because you continue paying your sub. I talked about it in another thread of how fotm is now a mechanics keeping more people interested in playing than quitting. But it has to change the classes or it will suffer in a long run as WAR did.

 

SWTOR is under heavy influence of WAR schmucks (the devs I mean:) and it will suffer from having always same fotm class. Some people don't learn from their mistakes. Ever.

[Bastus]

The idea of a Stealth tank seemed weird to me in the first place. Maybe they wouldn't have been nerfed if Inquisitor classes didn't comprise the majority (according to BW) of the class population. People flocked to assassins, kicked *** for a while, abused their bugs and exploits, and now they're getting nerfed. It's the circle of gaming. You're on top, you get nerfed, and wait for your time again.

 

I started with a Jug, literally one of the worst PVP dps classes I can think of, then rerolled an Marauder before they became FOTM, and apparently I was lucky. If you aren't happy with the changes, reroll, nobody is forcing you to play a class you think is broken.

Edited June 9, 2012 by Bastus

[invulnerableking]

Raise the CD of Force Came to one and half minutes. After that, this case is closed.

[Xinika]

6 more and then we're aiming for something new.

[Varicite]

6 more and then we're aiming for something new.

 

Is the goal to see how many pages of the same people saying the exact same thing you can get?

 

Because it's still only like 10 people or so in this thread, 60 pages or not.

 

/shrug

Edited June 9, 2012 by Varicite

[Xerain]

Nope Xerain, you already have an AOE mez and rage building Force Choke,

 

And whilst you may need an aggro drop, force camo has to be the stupidest way of doing it. And you know full well, that it's used for alot of other things too.

 

As for GBTF, meh, like a stun you say, except a stun only hits one person and fills resolve, whilst GBTF means you can suck up the DPS of everyone for 5 secs and not build resolve. So, if you want to equate it to a stun, you get way more utility out of it....

 

So yet again, I think you are basically saying, there's no reason for you to have those abilities and they are inherently strong for a high DPS class.....

 

And no, I'm not joking about giving them to sorcs, they actually need them. You have force leap to get to melee distance, and spammable snares. KB you say? Well your leap is on shorter CD than any KB.... so yeah. And way to prove my point, you want to keep your OP toys.

 

Nicely done

 

I already stated what they were used for and there are plenty of other things in a sorc/sages arsenal that can be used for a lot of other things that isn't it's intended design use.

 

Sigh marauder runs around in medium armor, can't self heal like a sorc/sage, doesn't have a 30m range like a sorc/sage, they don't have the amazing group utility like a sorc/sage, no knockback, no true stun, no pull.

 

It's a jump into a group of enemies and be in the obvious when you're playing a warrior, they need some defenses.

 

Sorc/sage has the tools to stay at ranged, can self heal, has a ton of group utility even if they're not healing specced, 30m range. 30m range is a defense btw. So learn your class because i've seen quite a few good sorc/sages that can put out numbers and do tons of stuff to support their team much better then a marauder can.

 

2 rage cost does not equal spammable and a sorc/sage can cleanse it off anyways and if they're annihilation they're probably not going to hit you with the 2 rage cost snare unless you're a healer to give our dots a little bit of protection from cleanse.

 

@ blind arrogance... How are you not wrong?

Hyper is right, one of our DOTs is only removable by a Sage/Sorc ability.

You were wrong about Rebuke I tested it too, directly adds 20% to my 32% damage reduction.

And yeah I have 32% damage reduction in full WH, which you said was a lie... so wrong.

So yeah you were wrong. Just please go, no-one reading this takes you seriously anymore.

At least I know my class... can't wait until we are inevitably nerfed, you clearly have no idea.

 

I am glad we have people with common sense asking for nerfs in the right way rather than blindly calling something OP. Full credit go to those people (not arrogant people like you), especially the ones that accept their class being nerfed, don't see that very often.

 

No he's not go test it with a healing sage. I said healers. All the healers can remove our dots.

 

http://www.torhead.com/ability/26n9gFJ/sith-purity

http://www.torhead.com/ability/aQq06F0/purge

 

^Nuff said.

 

And yet people swarm to Annihilation now, in an environment that currently favors burst over sustained damage... And you think they're going to switch to Carnage when the environment changes to more heavily favoring sustained damage? You're delusional. People will keep playing Annihilation and it will gain further ground compared to most other dps specs that rely more heavily on resource dumps and cooldown stacking. As ttk's get longer, you'll get those full stacks of bleeds up even more often and be able to apply full long-term pressure even more often.

 

You're pretty much the definition of biased in this thread. You don't make balanced arguments or even allow yourself to see ones that others make fairly. You just volume post and filibuster everything possible in hopes of tilting forum-goer perception towards believing Marauders are fairly balanced and will continue to be so without any changes regardless of facts. You're like an attorney representing their client except with less ability to produce a logical argument.

 

 

The ability to lock a target down for 3 seconds 3 times with an 80% run speed buff to the whole party is going to make carnage/combat that much more desirable for a team play, plus you think as TTK gets longer a good focus isn't going to succeed? right...

 

No i sit here and tell you from my experience how things are as a marauder and you sit here from your experience and say how things are playing against a marauder.

Edited June 9, 2012 by Xerain

[fungihoujo]

Should have rolled one when you had the chance bro. No one is FORCING you to play a class other then knight / warrior, so it's your own fault you are getting owned.

 

Guys we asked for BALANCED PVP. What better way to balance PVP then force out every class but one? Don't you see? It's all part of the plan! They are just giving us what we asked for!

 

This right here- it's too bad levelling in pvp is painfully slow, and most are sick of pve levelling now... still, if it takes people a month to level their mara up, that's 15 bucks for BW.

 

Exactly as planned!

[DarkSaberMaster]

Posting to continue thread.

 

Carry on......

[Achyllis]

This right here- it's too bad levelling in pvp is painfully slow, and most are sick of pve levelling now... still, if it takes people a month to level their mara up, that's 15 bucks for BW.

 

Exactly as planned!

 

Spot on. Pay me to repeat content. And in 6 months and 2 patches MUHAHA the nerf bat comes around again.

 

Bad news for BW is we have all seen this before in WoW.

[AdmiralParmesan]

Wow Xerian is an equally big troll on forums as he is in game. Should have figured

[contentment]

They only need to apply slight tweaks towards their defensive abilities. Maybe increase some of the defensive cooldowns.

[Jarfunkz]

They only need to apply slight tweaks towards their defensive abilities. Maybe increase some of the defensive cooldowns.

 

I agree, with exception to the dots in anni/watchman being severely op. There is a distinct difference between the capabilities of the other two classes compared to that one.

 

You just never see it in warzones unless you look at the combat logs or know the class very well by playing it. They do not have 5000+ hits, they just have two individual 4-6k dots along with 2.5-3.5k hits.

[Xerain]

I agree, with exception to the dots in anni/watchman being severely op. There is a distinct difference between the capabilities of the other two classes compared to that one.

 

You just never see it in warzones unless you look at the combat logs or know the class very well by playing it. They do not have 5000+ hits, they just have two individual 4-6k dots along with 2.5-3.5k hits.

 

Overload saber at a 3 stack will do 4-6k with all crits but the rupture dot will not.

[Superawesomerman]

Overload saber at a 3 stack will do 4-6k with all crits but the rupture dot will not.

 

This. The os stacks (especially if you can roll them) do the majority of the damage, the cauterize damage is mostly in the initial strike. I am 99% positive you can remove cauterize as well, since I tested it ore 1.2 with a command heaaler friend.

[Nuzt]

It is not, a operative healer can do everything a sage does better.

 

Its not that seer is COMPLETELY broken, theres just no reason to take a seer while you can take a operative (except huttball pulls)

 

And then theres Troop/BH heals which are somewhere under marauder healing, of course its not really that bad but until sages can claim they are worse then Troops/BH they are fine.

 

As for maras/sents they needed to be toned down a bit but BW has no concept of "a bit" they would just destroy the class and call it balance.

[Superawesomerman]

Also, lets be realistic. If you are not specced at least partially for healing, healing as a dps spec is basically not much better than seething out of combat. The only time you can reasonably effective at healing as a dps spec sage is if you pop the 20% alacrity and 100% crit, and that doesnt last long at all. You cant really compare steady self healing with no dps loss to casted healing which has poor efficiency, hps, and strength, and takes you out of the fight for at least 5 seconds.

[Superawesomerman]

And then theres Troop/BH heals which are somewhere under marauder healing, of course its not really that bad but until sages can claim they are worse then Troops/BH they are fine.

 

As for maras/sents they needed to be toned down a bit but BW has no concept of "a bit" they would just destroy the class and call it balance.

 

I think sages are at least as good as ops for all the reasons in my sig link, but I dont play ops, only observe good ones.

 

I strongly suspect that merc healers would be better if they played more like real healers and didnt attempt to facetank everthing like they used to be able to. I still think they need a buff to mobility though.

 

I would suggest removing the cooldown on their dispel and making it free. That would make them unsnareable for the most part, as well as giving them a neat functionality both other healers lack.