1.3 nerf notes, alrighty then

[Ngamok]

The changes to PT and VG are the tank tree skills. So the decrease in Stockstrike Rocket Punch having less crit and the railshot / HIB hitting 4 targets are all in the tank tree.

[ProfessorWalsh]

I was a bit suprised that Marauders weren't looked into more. I'm biochem, but I don't mind that it was removed. I enjoyed a few large hits. Tank Assassin nerf was inc. Everyone knew that. I'm hoping that they are balanced well. Only time will tell. The only think marauders need to have changed is there immunity ward. They are made to DPS and the DPS should be left in check IMO.

 

I'm pretty sure that they (Marauders) were looked at. They were simply found to be working as intended. Remember, just because they look at something doesn't mean that they will come to the same conclusion you did. To be honest Sentinels and Marauders are perfectly fine and have been for a while.

[Ngamok]

I'm pretty sure that they (Marauders) were looked at. They were simply found to be working as intended. Remember, just because they look at something doesn't mean that they will come to the same conclusion you did. To be honest Sentinels and Marauders are perfectly fine and have been for a while.

 

IMO I believe they have too many ways to move around and defensive cool downs for the sustained damage they put out and it's quite a bit. Pretty sure we'll see more of them now. But BW says their fine for now, so I guess so.

[Metajedi]

IMO I believe they have too many ways to move around and defensive cool downs for the sustained damage they put out and it's quite a bit. Pretty sure we'll see more of them now. But BW says their fine for now, so I guess so.

 

Their cool downs are fine, their only real method of closing distance is force charge and occasionally predation , the best way to handle them is to kite them...and when they burn undying rage you simply stun them, or out run them for 5 seconds...its not hard... I kill them on a consistent basis all the time, as a madness sin.

[Laforet]

Well Powertechs took a huge burst nerf.

 

The burst powertechs had was from stacking adrenals and relics with their 100% crit chance skill.

 

You wont see powertech run in a smoke someone in 5 seconds with those changes and without the burst powertechs will run huge ammo issues.

 

Longer fights will hurt certain classes like troops more than the classes that build up resources to spend.

 

This.

 

Instead of destroying the pt pyro as they did with 1.2 sorc they adressed the underlying mechanic (insane adrenal burst that killed everything in seconds).

 

Smart thinking from bioware, props.

 

The only issue they have to adress now is the fact that the operative healer is like 100% more efficient than the other 2 healing ACs.

[Kawiki]

The marauders only got a small buff to carnage... which I doubt anyone is complaining about. It's pretty safe to assume that people are talking about the annihilation tree since most people are frustrated with the survivability. In most cases a carnage marauder will drop faster than a annihilation marauder. How ever the carnage marauder is capable of dropping targets quicker.... it's give/take IMO.

 

I am not talking about actual class changes so much as changes to the meta game. The way to deal with Maras/Sents is to burst them down as quickly as poosible and stun them when they hit UR. They will have more uptime in 1.3.

 

I did not think they were really that OP but now they may well truly be, by far, the strongest class. i would also watch out for Tank/Vigilance guardians they may be the new fotm in 1.3.

Edited June 6, 2012 by Kawiki

[ProfessorWalsh]

I am talking about actual class changes so much as changes to the meta game. The way to deal with Maras/Sents is to burst them down as quickly as poosible and stun them when they hit UR. They will have more uptime in 1.3.

 

I did not think they were really that OP but now they may well truly be, by far, the strongest class. i would also watch out for Tank/Vigilance guardians they may be the new fotm in 1.3.

 

...

 

Oh lord... Kawiki, we, the Sentinel population, just went through like a month and a half of being accused of being FotM, OP'ed, and seeing constant cries for nerfs. BioWare has finally looked at the class and definitively said, "There is nothing wrong with this class." Already you are saying they will be the strongest class and thus enable a new round of nerf calls?

 

*sigh*

 

The class is hard to play, has to close to melee range, deals with hitching worse than any other class in the game, and unless you are Watchmen spec is incredibly skill-reliant. Leave it alone already.

[UGLYMRJ]

Their cool downs are fine, their only real method of closing distance is force charge and occasionally predation , the best way to handle them is to kite them...and when they burn undying rage you simply stun them, or out run them for 5 seconds...its not hard... I kill them on a consistent basis all the time, as a madness sin.

 

People don't consider it and MOST of the time I save it for an escape route, but the cloak is a good way to close the gap as well. But I agree completely... someone effective in kiting me is like nerfing me without a patch.

[entheogen]

Metajedi is 100% on point. Players need to pay attention to counterclasses a bit better.

 

A lot of people are suffering greatly from the dunning-kruger effect, where they think they are super amazing players when they aren't. People under the dunning kruger effect tend to believe that if they fail at something, it has to do with external conditions rather than their abilities. So if you're a sorc and you get rolled by a slinger, it's not that you played badly or didn't have cooldowns or whatever, it's "OMG SORC UNDERPOWERED SLINGER OP BIOWARE PLZ NERF QQ I UNSUB".

 

That said, the tanksins passive damage mitigation was comparable to juggs, but their active defenses were superior; all the while their damage was also superior.

So the rebalance is on the PTS. We can fight it out on there, and find out if the adjustments were heavy handed or not. Bioware will take a look at the numbers too.

 

All I know is that if anyone actually threatens to unsub or whatever because of this, they are petulant baby children.

[Kawiki]

...

 

Oh lord... Kawiki, we, the Sentinel population, just went through like a month and a half of being accused of being FotM, OP'ed, and seeing constant cries for nerfs. BioWare has finally looked at the class and definitively said, "There is nothing wrong with this class." Already you are saying they will be the strongest class and thus enable a new round of nerf calls?

 

*sigh*

 

The class is hard to play, has to close to melee range, deals with hitching worse than any other class in the game, and unless you are Watchmen spec is incredibly skill-reliant. Leave it alone already.

 

lol.

 

Sorry bud. I don't want nerfs to any class, they suck. However, I really did not believe it before but I starting to believe BW really does not know the actual dynamics of PvP and how these meta changes will affect the game. i will also say that DPS Sorcs/Sages were helped quite a bit with these changes. Book is still out on Healers.

 

I will disagree that Maras/Sents are hard to play. I will say it does take a higher level of awareness then most classes.

 

Here is hoping you are not nerfed but be prepared for the nerf calls.. well.. forever.

[UGLYMRJ]

Metajedi is 100% on point. Players need to pay attention to counterclasses a bit better.

 

A lot of people are suffering greatly from the dunning-kruger effect, where they think they are super amazing players when they aren't. People under the dunning kruger effect tend to believe that if they fail at something, it has to do with external conditions rather than their abilities. So if you're a sorc and you get rolled by a slinger, it's not that you played badly or didn't have cooldowns or whatever, it's "OMG SORC UNDERPOWERED SLINGER OP BIOWARE PLZ NERF QQ I UNSUB".

 

That said, the tanksins passive damage mitigation was comparable to juggs, but their active defenses were superior; all the while their damage was also superior.

So the rebalance is on the PTS. We can fight it out on there, and find out if the adjustments were heavy handed or not. Bioware will take a look at the numbers too.

 

All I know is that if anyone actually threatens to unsub or whatever because of this, they are petulant baby children.

 

This is so true...

 

instead of complaining about it... people should learn about it. Early on if I had problems with a certain class. I researched it, found it's weaknesses. The classes I had the MOST problems with, I rolled it to understand it better. Things are going a lot better these days...

 

I think most of the people that are calling for nerfs and simply don't understand the mechanics of the game. They are the type to roll a DPS character and beat on a tank for half of a warzone while 2 healers are sitting in the background ROFL'ing.

[Xienive]

The funny part is that pure tank Shadows are going to suffer much more than DPS geared Shadows, because they get a big hit to survivabilty with an already low non buffed DPS output.

 

I'll still be able to do fine, Im not too worried. I am shocked tho that Sents and Maraduders didn't get hit at all.

[pureeffinmetal]

Well Powertechs took a huge burst nerf.

 

The burst powertechs had was from stacking adrenals and relics with their 100% crit chance skill.

 

You wont see powertech run in a smoke someone in 5 seconds with those changes and without the burst powertechs will run huge ammo issues.

 

Longer fights will hurt certain classes like troops more than the classes that build up resources to spend.

 

Please. Everyone will be doing less damage. This change affects EVERYONE. Don't act like this is some targeted Nerf specifically to your class.

 

Pyros will still have top notch burst potential.

 

Any class would stack adrenals, relics and expertise power ups and could smoke someone. Few classes can smoke someone without those. Powertechs are one of those few.

[SinnedWill]

The marauders only got a small buff to carnage... which I doubt anyone is complaining about. It's pretty safe to assume that people are talking about the annihilation tree since most people are frustrated with the survivability. In most cases a carnage marauder will drop faster than a annihilation marauder. How ever the carnage marauder is capable of dropping targets quicker.... it's give/take IMO.

 

carnage marauders are the easiest to counter - 1 knockback, stun, root, etc. will render gore's 6s duration useless. Carnage is certainly the squishiest spec for marauder (all melees get focused, taunted, stunned, cc'd, and knocked back FAR MORE than long-range classes for starters, and when you factor in that carnage has a 3s 10m range root in addition to the root attached to ravage, they get focused much more heavily - AND are least likely to get a full ravage channel off, but yes, a gore procced ravage that lasts full cycle can ALMOST kill any class outright, except for tank specs with tank gear due to shields mitigating the damage). Annihilation EASILY outlasts carnage marauders due to their self-healing being so effective in conjunction with force camo and the defensive cooldowns - also, they don't need to continue to face tank a single target like a carnage mara does, they can swap targets by throwing all their DoT's up on one enemy then switch targets - which typically results in less sustained focus fire compared to how carnage plays. Rage maras are squishy, but they don't need to rely on melee ranged attacks alone - they tend to throw force crush on a target that cannot purge it off themself to build shockwave stacks, then proceed to use their empowered smash on their primary target or a group of targets (very easy to get into position for an empowered smash with force camo) - and their undying rage cooldown becomes 45s (with talents + gear set bonus).

 

If anything, I see the changes to gore's duration causing situational improvements but also significant debuffs to carnage marauders (due to the fact that off-GCD abilities will often cause "mis-fires", and the shorter duration will never permit a carnage marauder to get in some of its best attacks if they are stunned, knocked back, or rooted with it up - the 6s duration would usually let me get back in range after a knockback to at least force scream before it expired - same for stuns). Carnage marauder's most effective burst damage (against squishies, particularly) occurs when we have berserk active while we have at least 10 rage built up, gore the target and spam massacre (which becomes a 1s GCD) - targets are always moving around when we do this, so a shorter gore duration will likely result in us not being able to get 4-4.5 gore-procced massacres in anymore with the shorter duration (yes, I understand that we can now potentially begin massacre spam instantly with gore becoming off-gcd, but any player worth his salt knows to at least knockback a carny mara the moment they see the gore proc buff icon appear over them - so again, we'll lose a lot of its damage by having to reobtain melee range).

 

They really need to fix how long it takes damage to register (for both off-hand damage AND ataru form procced damage). There have been many occasions in close fights where I have died only to have my target die ~0.5-1s later from off-hand damage from massacre and ataru form damage due to the delay (hell, if a sage/shadow's damage from project kills a target, the recipient freezes and is unable to move or act until the skill animation has landed and damage has displayed, showing that it has killed you - but this doesn't seem to be the case with off-hand/ataru form damages).

[HeavensTerror]

You guys do realize nothing is final? Geesh the PTS just started there are going be alot of additions and cuts still coming.

 

[Tatebomb]

/pleased. Good to see BW didn't listen to all the QQ. People who thought sents needed a major nerf just don't know how to play.

[Yescek]

Replies.....................

 

I was a bit suprised that Marauders weren't looked into more. I'm biochem, but I don't mind that it was removed. I enjoyed a few large hits. Tank Assassin nerf was inc. Everyone knew that. I'm hoping that they are balanced well. Only time will tell. The only think marauders need to have changed is there immunity ward. They are made to DPS and the DPS should be left in check IMO.

 

DPS *IS* in check right now. I think you need to clarify WHICH TYPE of Marauder you have an issue with. I have no sympathy for lazy players who refuse to take two *********** seconds to look at my stance and figure out how to fight me. Not all Marauders are Annihilation.

 

The marauders only got a small buff to carnage... which I doubt anyone is complaining about. It's pretty safe to assume that people are talking about the annihilation tree since most people are frustrated with the survivability. In most cases a carnage marauder will drop faster than a annihilation marauder. How ever the carnage marauder is capable of dropping targets quicker.... it's give/take IMO.

 

Bingo dude. Square on the money. Something else to consider is that differently specced Marauders will take down different targets at different rates. Annihilation is an amazing Tank-buster due to the internal damage. Carnage is fantastic for killing light armor targets in general and most healers. Rage is better against heavy armor targets than Carnage but aside from that there really isn't a type of target it excels at better than the other two.

 

The change to Gore prevents it from being used with Ravage (you can't use an off GCD ability during a channeled ability without interrupting it), and that's pretty significant. This means the last hit on Ravage wil never have armor penetration.

 

Incorrect. This just means that the buff from Gore only lasts 4.5 seconds rather than 6. It's off the GCD, so you don't have to factor in an additional 1.5 seconds. Ravage is only a 3 second channel. All this means is that I'll be able to use Gore more often. Tactics will have to be reevaluated though. And the reason this doesn't hurt for KB'ed times is cause typically I can't get back in range fast enough anyways so I'm already used to swapping to another tact at that point anyways. I do kinda wish that they'd drop the CD of the ability some though, cause it's on a stupidly long cooldown as is. I can easily see this meaning I never get Gore on a Blood Frenzy Buffed scream, that'll hurt DPS a bit...................

 

I'm pretty sure that they (Marauders) were looked at. They were simply found to be working as intended. Remember, just because they look at something doesn't mean that they will come to the same conclusion you did. To be honest Sentinels and Marauders are perfectly fine and have been for a while.

 

Thank you. You're right. The issue people have is that now they have to pay attention to what kind of Marauder they're facing and fight accordingly. The lazy nerfmongers have and will always *HATE* that.

 

IMO I believe they have too many ways to move around and defensive cool downs for the sustained damage they put out and it's quite a bit. Pretty sure we'll see more of them now. But BW says their fine for now, so I guess so.

 

Again, if you're talking any kind of sustained anything you're talking about Annihilation Marauders. Do us all a favor and be specific when you're talking about Marauders and Nerfs of any kind.

 

Their cool downs are fine, their only real method of closing distance is force charge and occasionally predation , the best way to handle them is to kite them...and when they burn undying rage you simply stun them, or out run them for 5 seconds...its not hard... I kill them on a consistent basis all the time, as a madness sin.

 

Yep, but again we need to be SPECIFIC when talking about Marauders. Rage Marauders for instance have Obliterate as well as Charge. Predation for Carnage Marauders is 30% faster than the other two AND our Camo breaks all CC short of a full stun. Annihilation got the short stick on mobility, but they're WAAAAAAAAAAAY tankier which makes up for it.

 

I am not talking about actual class changes so much as changes to the meta game. The way to deal with Maras/Sents is to burst them down as quickly as poosible and stun them when they hit UR. They will have more uptime in 1.3.

 

I did not think they were really that OP but now they may well truly be, by far, the strongest class. i would also watch out for Tank/Vigilance guardians they may be the new fotm in 1.3.

 

Only time will tell bro, but I think you're overestimating how significant the change to Gore is. That was the only change made to the PTS and all it's gonna do is make me have to work more Gores into my rotations.

 

...

 

Oh lord... Kawiki, we, the Sentinel population, just went through like a month and a half of being accused of being FotM, OP'ed, and seeing constant cries for nerfs. BioWare has finally looked at the class and definitively said, "There is nothing wrong with this class." Already you are saying they will be the strongest class and thus enable a new round of nerf calls?

 

*sigh*

 

The class is hard to play, has to close to melee range, deals with hitching worse than any other class in the game, and unless you are Watchmen spec is incredibly skill-reliant. Leave it alone already.

 

Yeah, that month sucked but it's the internet dude. You can't get away from it. As for your last paragraph, i'd disagree. Marauders are NOT easy but NOT hard in my opinion. It's just that idiots can't play Marauders effectively. Yeah, we're skill reliant and yeah hitching sucks, but thats WHY it takes someone who's very situationally aware.

 

People don't consider it and MOST of the time I save it for an escape route, but the cloak is a good way to close the gap as well. But I agree completely... someone effective in kiting me is like nerfing me without a patch.

 

Then you're using it right. It's stupid to cloak INTO a fight unless you're an Annihilation Marauder. Doing it as Rage or Carnage outside of some VERY specific circustances is lunacy.

 

As for my own thoughts on the issue, we'll have to see. I know a few PT's who can throw some scary scary numbers around. I don't think that Tankassins/Tankhadows deserved the survivability nerf. They should have dropped damage off the Tanks, tweaked the healing down just a touch and actually BUFFED mitigation. Yeah, I said it. We want TANKS in TANK gear and this is just gonna push them even farther towards DPS gear.

Edited June 6, 2012 by Yescek

[Xerain]

Well, for everyone calling for nerfs on marauders and Pyrotech's... I'm very happy to say to you all,

 

I told you so...

 

I know both classes are and have been fine.

[Mournblood]

Spot on, Yescek.

[cycao]

I know both classes are and have been fine.

 

I think the adrenal and relic change was a nerf in itself to all classes...mostly ops though those poor poor s0bs

[Xinika]

Oh snap. tankasins will have to wear tank gear and tank accordingly.

 

Got it.

 

What's the problem again?

 

You are so incredibly clueless. If anything, the change forces you to wear DPS gear.

[fungihoujo]

They took gore off the GCD... that's their way of dealing with marauders, can't wait for this one to be called a nerf.

 

Hahahaha, oh man- 1.3 is the nail in the coffin, good job not having a *********** clue what you're doing when it comes to balance BW.

[entheogen]

They took gore off the GCD... that's their way of dealing with marauders, can't wait for this one to be called a nerf.

 

Hahahaha, oh man- 1.3 is the nail in the coffin, good job not having a *********** clue what you're doing when it comes to balance BW.

 

If only there was some sort of "testing server" where we could "test" the balance changes...

[Cerdo_hormiguero]

For Shadows/Assasins:

According to my PvP data (logs from 40 WZs), this nerfs my Shadow self-healing by 45%. It is also reduces our mitigation (excluding Internal/Elemental dmg) by around 9%.

 

 

Why are they nerfing Shadow/Assassin survivability and not dps? It undermines the purpose of speccing tank to PvP: we want high survivability/utility and low dps.

 

Moreover, how can they nerf our self-healing by 45% while Marauder/Sentinel do more healing (+ have better PvP stealth + have better survivability with their incredible cds + do 3x our dps)?

[fungihoujo]

For Shadows/Assasins:

According to my PvP data (logs from 40 WZs), this nerfs my Shadow self-healing by 45%. It is also reduces our mitigation (excluding Internal/Elemental dmg) by around 9%.

 

 

Why are they nerfing Shadow/Assassin survivability and not dps? It undermines the purpose of speccing tank to PvP: we want high survivability/utility and low dps.

 

Moreover, how can they nerf our self-healing by 45% while Marauder/Sentinel do more healing (+ have better PvP stealth + have better survivability with their incredible cds + do 3x our dps)?

 

We all knew it was coming- marauders were saying that sins were on par with them, BW took note and are doing what they can to fix that problem.