Rakata/Black Hole or Recruit?

[Ghostuka]

1000 expertise grants you around 15% bonus damage, 10% damage reduction.

 

 

Not really.

 

1000 expertise should give you around 21% bonus damage, around 16% reduction and maybe around 11% bonus healing.

[oredith]

So my alt Tankassin was mainly PvE until now. I've bought both the Survivor & Stalker recruit sets.

I also have full Rakata Survivor & Stalker, with a few Black Hole tanking mods/implants.

 

Which would make me more of an asset to a team? Rakata/Black hole mix, or full recruit?

speaking from experience, it is much better to start with top tier (all 61 in available slots, and all augmented) PvE gear, but know that you are only in the WZ as a support role. you are guarding the heales, peeling, and taunting. Don't be that clueless guy running into the middle of the skirm.

 

doing that allows you to stay alive an incredibly long time (i've found that most players avoided me when they saw 27.5k HP, there's easier targets to pick off, like the recruit next to you with 13k HP), and as a result, you don't have the long downtime of waiting for the rez-gate to drop - which also means you get a lot more objective points.

 

use that to buy the BM gear.

[Nolenthar]

Not really.

 

1000 expertise should give you around 21% bonus damage, around 16% reduction and maybe around 11% bonus healing.

 

Still, we're below the +30% damage, +30% health.

[oredith]

To those who don't understand why expertise is better than a bigger health pool, try to look at it this way (using arbitrary numbers):

 

Remembering that expertise improves your damage output, and reduces your incoming damage...

 

Say I have lots of expertise, and have 16khp. You do 4k damage per attack to me.

 

You have no expertise, and have 20k hp. I do 5k damage per attack to you.

 

We both kill each other in 4 attacks - all evens out, right? Wrong. We have each have a pocket healer... Guess which one has to work harder? Now scale that up to a full warzone, with multiple healers, and people attacking you at any one time (albeit with lower average attack numbers) and the problem multiplies.

 

The extra health is not helping you to survive any longer (as you die in the same amount of hits), and your lack of expertise just makes the healers you have work harder (which is why many will simply ignore people in PvE gear). The disparity widens considerably when you move up the tiers of PvP gear.

 

Hope this helps.

this would be a VERY GOOD argument, except your numbers are totally wrong.

 

by going from campaign/BH gear, to recruit, i drop from 27.5k HP, to 14k HP.

[Ghostuka]

Well, comparing recruit to the very best of PVE gear may not be the best argument. But try to look at it from the BM/WH set, and you will see PVP gear is better suited.

[oredith]

Well, comparing recruit to the very best of PVE gear may not be the best argument. But try to look at it from the BM/WH set, and you will see PVP gear is better suited.

i totally agree, but that's not what most of these "expertise > *" people are saying.

 

and unfortunately, a lot of people listen to them without thinking for themselves - so they throw on their recruit gear instead of their full campaign gear, and think it's better.

[L-RANDLE]

i totally agree, but that's not what most of these "expertise > *" people are saying.

 

and unfortunately, a lot of people listen to them without thinking for themselves - so they throw on their recruit gear instead of their full campaign gear, and think it's better.

 

Really shows that you can make a ton of people believe anything regardless of what the numbers say, its pretty scarry for us analytical types..

[oredith]

Really shows that you can make a ton of people believe anything regardless of what the numbers say, its pretty scarry for us analytical types..

lets face it, the full campaign vs. recruit is VERY COMMON now.

 

EC has been out for a while, everyone's (even a super casual guild like mine) decked out in (61) gear.

 

There's no new raid content, so, what's there to do with your downtime? well, if you actually still wanna play SWTOR, you really only have PvP.

 

so, you either wear your campaign/BH gear, or you buy some recruit gear (since you didn't have any before, and started at valor rank 1 like i did, a week ago).

Edited July 13, 2012 by oredith

[L-RANDLE]

lets face it, the full campaign vs. recruit is VERY COMMON now.

 

EC has been out for a while, everyone's (even a super casual guild like mine) decked out in (61) gear.

 

There's no new raid content, so, what's there to do with your downtime? well, if you actually still wanna play SWTOR, you really only have PvP.

 

so, you either wear your campaign/BH gear, or you buy some recruit gear (since you didn't have any before, and started at valor rank 1 like i did, a week ago).

 

 

I'm with you.. Keep fighting the good fight. I have beaten plenty of WH with 750EXP, and I am not even 100% optimized for DPS yet...

pst.... Buy the BiS BM/WH stuff and put those BM/WH mods/enh into your camp/BH gear...

[Totaltrash]

I wrote this before, I write it again.

It's not about how quickly you die, it's about what you can do before you die.

 

As a sniper, I can kill a full campaign gear player without expertise as fast as a recruit gear player - about 10-12 seconds (any 1300+ sniper can do the same) - hitpoints don't really help much.

 

The difference is that the recruit gear player could actually hurt me, might make me to use a defensive CD, a stim, or force me to break cover during the short fight. By doing so, his death served a purpose and might have helped his team.

 

The campaign gear player however, died without a purpose because I can just ignore the minimal damage he inflicted on me. This applies especially to melee and tank classes, who might only get a couple attacks in before they die.

 

If you throw a healer into this scenario, things become even uglier for the PVE gear guy.

A good healer might be able to keep a recruit gear player alive for quite some time, since the damage is mitigated by expertise.

But asking a healer to outheal the 25K damage I do in 10-12 secs on a PVE geared player is next to impossible.

 

So yes, recruit gear is superior for PVP - use it!

[oredith]

The difference is that the recruit gear player could actually hurt me, might make me to use a defensive CD, a stim, or force me to break cover during the short fight. By doing so, his death served a purpose and might have helped his team.

 

The campaign gear player however, died without a purpose because I can just ignore the minimal damage he inflicted on me. This applies especially to melee and tank classes, who might only get a couple attacks in before they die.

actually, any player facing a sniper that lets them remain in cover and snipe at them, pretty much deserves to die, regardless of the gear they're in.

 

first thing i do when I see a sniper is electro dart and grapple them into point blank range. that has nothing to do with my gear, that has everything to do with not sucking at how the rock/paper/scissors game works.

 

if someone insists on trying to beat a rock by throwing scissors at it, they kinda deserve to lose.

[L-RANDLE]

I wrote this before, I write it again.

It's not about how quickly you die, it's about what you can do before you die.

 

As a sniper, I can kill a full campaign gear player without expertise as fast as a recruit gear player - about 10-12 seconds (any 1300+ sniper can do the same) - hitpoints don't really help much.

 

The difference is that the recruit gear player could actually hurt me, might make me to use a defensive CD, a stim, or force me to break cover during the short fight. By doing so, his death served a purpose and might have helped his team.

 

The campaign gear player however, died without a purpose because I can just ignore the minimal damage he inflicted on me. This applies especially to melee and tank classes, who might only get a couple attacks in before they die.

 

If you throw a healer into this scenario, things become even uglier for the PVE gear guy.

A good healer might be able to keep a recruit gear player alive for quite some time, since the damage is mitigated by expertise.

But asking a healer to outheal the 25K damage I do in 10-12 secs on a PVE geared player is next to impossible.

 

So yes, recruit gear is superior for PVP - use it!

 

Yeah take off my BH/CAMP gear...

Have you played in a WZ BH/Camp pieces? Here is an example of why your thoughts hold little weight.

no...

 

Here I am with 5RAK/7COL:

http://s1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh590/ldogg1579/?action=view&current=SWTORCOLUMI_RAK-1.jpg

Force in Balance rating: 1520-1584

HP: 16322

 

 

Here I am in Recruit:

http://s1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh590/ldogg1579/?action=view&current=SWTORRECRUIT.jpg

Force in Balance: 1249-1313 *1.1662= 1457-1532

HP: 12352

 

So please explain why I should be kept out of any WZ with numbers like this...

I dont give a crap if you got 99.9999999% mitigation. As you can see, it won't matter in either case, and actually worst in the recruit gear attack. oh an btw, this is a pretty vanilla PvE set with NO augments.

 

I am seriously doubting you own any decent raid gear to even be able to speak on the trade off, let alone PvP at all. Its easy.

1. Take one attack and look at the tooltip rating for all PvE gear.

2. Take the same attack and look at the tooltip rating with all recruit gear on (but add the "damage bonus" given to that attack from EXP).

 

Sucks that I have to spell it out to the math illiterate......

Edited July 13, 2012 by L-RANDLE

[Totaltrash]

Yeah take off my BH/CAMP gear...

Have you played in a WZ BH/Camp pieces? Here is an example of why your thoughts hold little weight.

I dont give a crap if you got 99.9999999% mitigation. As you can see, it won't matter in either case, and actually worst in the recruit gear attack. oh an btw, this is a pretty vanilla PvE set with NO augments.

 

I am seriously doubting you own any decent raid gear to even be able to speak on the trade off, let alone PvP at all. Its easy.

1. Take one attack and look at the tooltip rating for all PvE gear.

2. Take the same attack and look at the tooltip rating with all recruit gear on (but add the "damage bonus" given to that attack from EXP).

 

Sucks that I have to spell it out to the math illiterate......

 

Ah, insults and ignorance. You can't be helped.

 

My only hope is that Bioware implements an expertise restriction for warzones so I don't have to deal with the likes of you.

 

P.S. I own a full WH and full Campaign gear. I would never dream of using the latter in a warzone.

[TheRampage]

When I started pvping on my vanguard tank I had full rakata/BH gear. Didn't have problem in WZ, OK I had my healer with me but I didn't notice any "dying way to fast". So yes, I would say that gear is better of recruit, no matter the expertise. Ofc, I skipped to BM as soon as I could, but in recruit I have feeling I wouldn't do as good as I did in my PVE gear.

 

Could be wrong, but if you don't see yourself dying fast...

[Daiyukie]

Yeah take off my BH/CAMP gear...

Have you played in a WZ BH/Camp pieces? Here is an example of why your thoughts hold little weight.

I dont give a crap if you got 99.9999999% mitigation. As you can see, it won't matter in either case, and actually worst in the recruit gear attack. oh an btw, this is a pretty vanilla PvE set with NO augments.

 

I am seriously doubting you own any decent raid gear to even be able to speak on the trade off, let alone PvP at all. Its easy.

1. Take one attack and look at the tooltip rating for all PvE gear.

2. Take the same attack and look at the tooltip rating with all recruit gear on (but add the "damage bonus" given to that attack from EXP).

 

Sucks that I have to spell it out to the math illiterate......

 

What? I would love to have 99% mitigation. But that's impo... Wait. -Goes to roll a Marauder-

Edited July 13, 2012 by Daiyukie

[L-RANDLE]

Ah, insults and ignorance. You can't be helped.

 

My only hope is that Bioware implements an expertise restriction for warzones so I don't have to deal with the likes of you.

 

P.S. I own a full WH and full Campaign gear. I would never dream of using the latter in a warzone.

 

Of course you would not wear CAMP because you have full WH.... Duh!!

Here since you got full Camp() too, show me one attack with tooltip rating with CAMP gear on, then one with WH gear on and manually calculate the WH rating in the PvP arena. Until you do that, you get no quarter from me with your "GO PUT ON SOME RECRUIT GEAR" stupidity, sorry...