An open letter to Bioware.

[svartalfimposter]

The 1.2 update also fell short of what it promised in several areas, but especially customizable gear and the legacy system. Both were very underwhelming compared to what was expected and what the game needed.

 

Off topic, but I think the legacy system is pretty good. The problem with it is that it's built for the long term... it'll take ages to be able to afford any of the boosts, and by then you will probably have a level 50 of each class, so there's no point getting any legacy exp boosts, for one thing!

[turjake]

Playing a game, or several, does not necessarily give any specific insight to designing one. Designing a game, and implementing one might do, assuming you can make one that your friends want to play too.

[Nyla]

World PvP isn't a thing or an object that "works". While the planets are designed with the bases far apart, world PvP not happening is not the fault of the designer.

 

People in general don't go looking for it. If no one is around they aren't going to camp out a spot for 3 hours just to gank one person.

 

The best thing they did for world PvP was the rahkghoul event.

 

if they merge servers the population might be high enough to support some exciting world PvP. However, there are no direct rewards so there isn't really a point. I am an PvP player and I still don't go looking for world PvP because I don't see a point in it.

 

I agree and disagree somehow.

 

Yes, the fact that there's no reward for doing owPvP is one of the reasons it doesn't happen much. Most of the players nowadays prefer to do content in an "efficient" way so they prefer to leveling fast questing or in warzones than "wasting" time chasing players of the other faction.

 

But it is the fault of the designers to have built planets that way and thus reduces at min the chances of confrontation between factions. Players in this MMO aren't really different than players in other MMOs, if the behaviour is different it's because the game and its systems are different.

They should have mixed the leveling areas, with quest hubs for both factions in the same area, the road between hubs should go close to the other factions hubs or questing areas.

[Dezzi]

Playing a game, or several, does not necessarily give any specific insight to designing one. Designing a game, and implementing one might do, assuming you can make one that your friends want to play too.

 

Playing games gives you insight into what works and what doesn't because you've experienced design decisions as an end user--the target of game development. By giving us his gaming pedigree, he effectively establishes his ability to judge what has and hasn't worked regardless of whether you agree or disagree with his personal assessments.

 

Not being a game designer does not immediately disqualify you from being able to criticize the game. I'm not sure you want to go down that road argue that, because then all of the positive feedback is equally negated.

 

I mean... if being a game designer is the only way you're entitled to having an opinion, then what ground do the fanboys have to stand on to make their loving claims?

[Pcolapat]

Wow. It didn't take the blinder-wearing fanboys very long to derail this thread, despite the OP being a very well-reasoned and constructive post. So I guess this is just proof that it doesn't matter if your content is constructive or mouth-foaming, the fanboys will shut you down.

 

How unfortunate.

 

OP, great post. Though you bring up a lot of what people have been saying before, I think the more people that say it, the less the developers can afford to ignore it. Thanks for your insights, OP.

 

You know that the people developing this game have actual game design experience. That is what the fanboys are trying to tell the OP. The OP may think that his experience adds merit to his suggestions but he is not a game designer. He is not anything close to being a game designer. If he had made this post and omitted all of his credentials then his post may have been taken a bit more seriously.

Edited June 5, 2012 by Pcolapat

[Dezzi]

You know that the people developing this game have actual game design experience. That is what the fanboys are trying to tell the OP. The OP may think that his experience adds merit to his suggestions but he is not a game designer. He is not anything close to being a game designer. If he had made this post and ommited all of his credentials then his post may have been taken a bit more seriously.

 

So you admit that his feedback is legitimate, and in that case, the thread is being derailed because of some personal agenda between haters and lovers?

 

EDIT - In addition to my post just before yours, I ask you this: If you're not a game designer, how do you know his opinions are wrong? You couldn't possibly understand what works and what doesn't in games, so how can you possibly know the OP is wrong or that his assessments are invalid?

Edited June 5, 2012 by Dezzi

[Pcolapat]

So you admit that his feedback is legitimate, and in that case, the thread is being derailed because of some personal agenda between haters and lovers?

 

His points have already been talked about on these forums. His preamble was the only thing about his post that was worth commenting on.

[Dezzi]

His points have already been talked about on these forums. His preamble was the only thing about his post that was worth commenting on.

 

As I said, the more people that post complaints or suggestions, the less the developers can afford to ignore them. The repeated pronouncements add urgency to requests from players.

 

For example, do you think we'd be seeing a playable cathar species had only one person requested them?

[Pcolapat]

As I said, the more people that post complaints or suggestions, the less the developers can afford to ignore them. The repeated pronouncements add urgency to requests from players.

 

For example, do you think we'd be seeing a playable cathar species had only one person requested them?

 

It only opens a can of worms if you ask me. I am currently working on the "What about 'Barf'?" Dog lovers left out with the release of the new cathar playable race!

[Megaloz]

1. Endgame content fun is limited to Battleground PvP and Operations.

- Lots of endgame content is up.PvP Fps Ops Dailies

2. Scaling the PvP Gear has made PvE content redundant.

- Not Really

3. World PvP doesn't work at all

- Who cares!

4. The Legacy system fails to offer incentives to play, it's just a money sink

- Its just beginning lets wait!

5. Queue times for Battleground PvP content are artificially longer than necessary

- Not on my server - Tomb of freedon

7. The experiment with a world event in the Rakghoul Plague had no follow up

-Lets wait ?

 

Thank god your not working for Bioware

[Dezzi]

It only opens a can of worms if you ask me. I am currently working on the "What about 'Barf'?" Dog lovers left out with the release of the new cathar playable race!

 

Get enough people and maybe... just maybe.

[Namesis]

1. Endgame content fun is limited to Battleground PvP and Operations.

- Lots of endgame content is up.PvP Fps Ops Dailies

2. Scaling the PvP Gear has made PvE content redundant.

- Not Really

3. World PvP doesn't work at all

- Who cares!

4. The Legacy system fails to offer incentives to play, it's just a money sink

- Its just beginning lets wait!

5. Queue times for Battleground PvP content are artificially longer than necessary

- Not on my server - Tomb of freedon

7. The experiment with a world event in the Rakghoul Plague had no follow up

-Lets wait ?

 

and there is nothing wrong with the game? subs are fine! Lol

People are trying to help and your an ***. The game is in dire shape.

[Tsillah]

I would surmise that it's because actual experience does give insight. The author has been playing MMOs for the last 7 years. That means he has practical experience with the genre. He has seen what works in other games, watched them stumble into pitfalls and would like SWTOR to avoid them if possible.

 

If BioWare had more practical MMO experience and insight perhaps the game would be doing better.

 

And how would you know if his little resumé has any truth to it?

 

Why does the OP feel the need to give some sort of credentials?

 

I would prefer he simply sticks to his points and argumentation. If his points have merit, that's great, but to come here and state how much experience he supposedly has, only detracts from the actual arguments he's putting forward. Too bad, because he actually has some good points.

[Dezzi]

And how would you know if his little resumé has any truth to it?

 

Why does the OP feel the need to give some sort of credentials?

 

I would prefer he simply sticks to his points and argumentation. If his points have merit, that's great, but to come here and state how much experience he supposedly has, only detracts from the actual arguments he's putting forward. Too bad, because he actually has some good points.

 

Why does that detract from his points if his points are valid? I simply don't understand. It's nothing but a concerted effort to derail the thread and silence yet another "dissenter."

 

He wasn't making an appeal to authority, he was simply explaining where his opinions come from.

Edited June 5, 2012 by Dezzi

[Frostvein]

Why does the OP feel the need to give some sort of credentials?

 

Because some people (who shall remain nameless) belittle him for not having any experience?

[AutoCocker]

Very well written post and imo it addresses many issues within the game that are normally delivered in various troll like ways. Kinda sad that the majority of the replies are hung up on one sentence that has nothing to do with the issues at hand within the game itself.

 

At any rate good post, hope Bioware takes notes.

[Dezzi]

Because some people (who shall remain nameless) belittle him for not having any experience?

 

Right. It's either or with these people. Damned if you, damned if you don't, with the common thread between them being that some people on this forum just can't stand that the game gets criticized.

[AERHAE]

I'm not a games designer. I've been a business analyst for over 10 years, and specialise in IT developments, looking at how processes work and deliver for customers and users.

 

I've played MMOs since 2005, organising Guilds and gaming communities for some of that time, and witnessed games transform as I played them to mixed critical reception. In all, I believe I have a reasonable perspective on what makes an MMO work for its players, coupled with realistic expectations around the lead time involved in designing and delivering platform change. But I'm not a games designer. I'm a player.

 

If SWTOR doesn't adapt, my opinion as a player is that it will spiral to a smaller and smaller player base and then die. Commercially, that may be acceptable to Bioware, but it seems like a missed opportunity to me. SWTOR could relatively easily adapt and maintain an MMO market share, and continue to provide revenue and a fun gaming experience.

 

There are a couple of fundamental mistakes in the game design at present:

1. Endgame content fun is limited to Battleground PvP and Operations.

2. Scaling the PvP Gear has made PvE content redundant.

 

With less dirct impact, but significant because the design has failed to deliver are the rest of my "top ten":

3. World PvP doesn't work at all

4. The Legacy system fails to offer incentives to play, it's just a money sink

5. Queue times for Battleground PvP content are artificially longer than necessary

6. Token based rewards are all itemised gear, lacking in vanity items which retain value beyond item scaling

7. The experiment with a world event in the Rakghoul Plague had no follow up

8. SWTOR lacks community management tools, encouraging players to use external tools and making it easier for them to migrate to other games

9. Change management between reward systems has been poor and demoralised players

10. Gear frequently fails to match the Star Wars tone

 

If the above aren't clearly being addressed, I expect I'll move on to the next MMO... which would be a shame, because SWTOR has several saving graces which make it a game worth saving, if you can. I hear nothing but praise for the quality and pacing of Operations, the quality and balance of the PvP Battlegrounds, the class skills and talent trees, the great visual design of the game worlds, and the excellent story-driven interface and cut-scenes.

 

So, Bioware, can you maintain that high quality whilst finding someone with the game design skills to deal with the problem areas which undermine them?

 

Not liking to present problems without some ideas about a solution, here are some thoughts:

 

1. Endgame content fun is limited to Battleground PvP and Operations: By limiting rewards to scaling gear with itemisation levels, you swiftly make the game content outside that redundant. This includes all the work the teams have done on Crafting Skills, Quests and Daily Quests, Space Battles and Flashpoints. They just don't provide any kind of useful rewards. Furthermore, the design makes them a grind for money and tokens (and possibly Social level), not an enjoyable experience you would choose to do for the fun or challenge or reward. The rewards need urgent review as a short term fix. Future content needs to be made to be fun to play and repeat, and offer an interesting and lasting choice of rewards.

 

2. Releasing the new cash-purchased level 50 PvP Gear was fine for balancing the PvP arena, but immediately rendered Tionese and lower itemisation gear redundant. For 200k you could immediately be Operation-ready and able to take on someone in full Tionese. Why have you not upped the PvE rewards to match the scaling in the PvP gear? Why would anyone now do a Flashpoint more than once, when the rewards are valueless? The PvE rewards need to scale at the same rate.

 

3. World PvP is problematic for every game you see it in. The main issues are a lack of opponents, unbalanced teams or uninspiring rewards. So, offer some decent rewards only available through World PvP for one. Then design the area to make it easy for people to get to from their main (ie: Fleet) location so it's quick to load. Design a big area with multiple objectives, so a small mobile group can still have successes, or give them a stats boost if necessary. Then offer a range of fun Daily Mission Quests which are in the PvP area but not PvP dependent to bring people back to the area actively on a regular basis. A fun PvP scenario and a few in-game graphic effects would be a bonus.

 

4. The Legacy system fails to offer incentives to play, it's just a money sink: This seems to have missed the point in implementation, and really needs a redesign. Legacy level itself should reward players who have kept on playing any and all content, as an incentive to keep playing. Crazy costs just make it painfully unappealing; do you really want to blow 2 million credits on a spurious reward, or keep that banked for Operations costs? As a money sink, it is equally daft; at best a short term fix to a bloated economy amongst a small elite of obsessive players - why make everything a static cost rather than offer recurring items of limited duration? Surely the economy will shrink once, then bloat again in the same way? Legacy should be designed to make it easier to play up alts, and reward people for doing so, encouraging people to enjoy the content without the more restrictive experience of their first levelling. And where are the fun vanity rewards? A few emotes? What about pets, roleplay gear, titles, ship cosmetics, etc? It's a missed opportunity to incentivise players to stay that just needs a strategic rethink about what it's trying to achieve.

 

5. Queue times for Battleground PvP content are artificially longer than necessary: Implement a cross-server queueing system for PvP Battlegrounds and for Flashpoints, to make it a faster experience for the players. This seems like a massive oversight, and is not market competitive with the current same-server only system.

 

6. Token based rewards are all itemised gear, lacking in vanity items which retain value beyond item scaling: More rewards should be fun, interesting, utility items, or pure vanity items (especially items with limited charges to encourage players to purchase again and again). Just offering itemised gear for the tokens you collect in PvE or PvP creates a natural cap on how long they have any value, and is entirely unnecessary.

 

7. The experiment with a world event in the Rakghoul Plague had no follow up: This came and went like a ball of confusion. It was interesting, but over in a flash, leaving in its wake a load of confused players who didn't see any ongoing references to what has happened, and were left holding stacks of tokens/inventory items that they couldn't spend, but presumably need to hang onto? This needed to blend more seamlessly into the ongoing world, ideally leading on into the next event, and leave behind a legacy of fixed vendors/suppliers/quests to allow players to complete/spend their tokens and get closure to their story.

 

8. SWTOR lacks community management tools, encouraging players to use external tools and making it easier for them to migrate to other games: If you don't have an event calendar and other guild management tools easy to use, players are forced to use external options - their own Forums, Facebook, Steam etc. This makes it a lot easier for your SWTOR Guild communities to move away from the game. As an individual player, that may not be a bad thing, but looking at the future of the SWTOR community as a whole, it's not a bright outlook. You should have a development team working on making the Guild and Community experience in SWTOR as easy and supported as possible. It's those communities which will remain loyal during the gaps in content, and will encourage more casual players to return, whilst keeping your servers alive for new players. In many ways, Guild communities act as in-game advisors and moderators, engaging with, managing and supporting less experienced players on Bioware's behalf. You need to be engaging with them and making them happy to be here.

 

9. Change management between reward systems has been poor and demoralised players: A lot of the issues with SWTOR suggest a lack of thorough impact assessment when changes are put into the game. Someone needs to have a clear strategic overview of what the design teams are doing, and be capable of gap analysis - asking the questions like what happens to the PvE content if we implement this new PvP itemised gear? Then (and this is often the hard bit) someone needs to listen to them, and do something about the gaps, preferably before the new content is released. Get a good Change Manager.

 

10. Gear frequently fails to match the Star Wars tone: We don't play Star Wars to look like transformers, nor to have oversized WoW shoulderpads inflicted upon us. Realistic costumes and some normal looking clothes and armours would be better.

 

I appreciate it's possibly arrogant and assuming for me to offer recommendations on how to run your game as someone outside your company. You may well have good reasons for some of the above concerns, and be confident you have others in hand. You may disagree with my perspective, that's fine too. But please listen and consider - I know I am far from being alone in my concerns, and I'd like these issues addressed so that SWTOR can become the success it deserves to be.

 

Regards, Alastair

 

Thank you for this thread.I could not have said this better myself.Its good to see a well constructed thread that can be used as a example of the current state of the game tied into a general player base feeling over all of the current state of TOR.

It would do well for the folks at EA/Bioware to take note of this post.

[curtkram]

This is what I'm starting to think. Bioware is no longer a couple MDs who had a passion for games and made great content like baulder's gate or KOTOR because the love it and believe in it. Those guys are in some sort of VP position at EA now, doing whatever VPs at EA do. The people in Austin are just like many of us, perhaps the OP included, who spend their day in grey cubicles watching the clock click down to 5 (and posting on SWTOR forums). While it may be reasonable to assume the people in Austin really do love games/gaming, it is a fact that building a game is a very different process than playing one. Now I suspect they're just kind of jaded and spend their nights getting drunk at whatever local music scene in austin they're interested in (or playing Diablo or whatever), drag their hungover butts into work 15 minutes late, and spend half the day on facebook. How depressing would it be for them to actually read the forums and see what direction the community wants the game to go? I kind of feel bad now for trying to push them into fixing their population issues.

 

If they had the passion Bioware had before EA (that's a guess at the timeline); if they truly wanted a successful game; if there was any real intent to reduce the number of dropped subscriptions; something would have been done. No one in there right mind would think that saying "soon" every couple weeks would help. They just hope you believe enough to keep your subscription one more month.

 

Sure. They'll address their problems "soon," just like they did last month, just like they did in April, just like they did in February. In fact, I bet it's only a couple weeks away now. This time it's different. This time they mean it.

[alastairc]

Thanks to all for your posts, even those who disagree with me or my approach, as well as those whose support of my original post and the intentions behind it - your posts are greatly appreciated. Regardless of your personal preferences or intentions, or your personal opinions about me, it's good to see players really *caring* about the future of SWTOR.

 

I'd like to add a few small things in response to some of your replies:

 

1. I don't make any claim to be writing new ideas. I am simply presenting my own feedback to Bioware. I feel as one of their customers, I have the right to do that on an open forum, and care about the game enough to want to present my hope for its future. I'm one tiny customer; there's not much I can do to influence the course of the game's future, other than add my own opinions to those of others, and say - this is what I think. I positively encourage you as Bioware customers to do the same - whatever your views - and know that you have given them the opportunity to address your concerns. What Bioware choose to do with our collective feedback is entirely up to them.

 

2. I felt I'd made it clear in my original post that I'm not a games designer. I didn't feel it was fair to level specific criticism at the game design without making that clear; my perspective is that of an informed player and customer, nothing more or less. I was hoping to avoid discussion along the lines of "by what right do you criticise this game" by briefly detailing my background, in which I've evidently not succeeded regardless. Please accept that this was not intended as any kind of personal judgement on the worthiness of other contributions, only as an introduction to my own.

 

3. More specifically, I agree with several posters here that server population is an issue for MMOs and is increasingly a problem for SWTOR. I was very interested to read that some felt this was the root of their own problems with the game. My reason for not addressing it in my own original post is that Bioware seem to have a strategy for managing this issue in terms of the free server migrations. However, I'm not convinced that consolidation will of itself resolve the other things I see as problems. This also seems to me to be a fix of the symptoms of a game which is losing population, rather than addressing the root cause. So, I'm interested to know what others think this will do to resolve the design problems in the game?

Edited June 5, 2012 by alastairc

[WaywardOne]

Great original post. And I agree with 98% of it. I'm totally lost as to why there's no x-server wzs/lfg and am positive that server declines would have been much less dramatic if we had them 4+ mos ago. Also, even dead servers would be playable with x-server tools.

 

As someone who has driven many cars in a variety of ways I absolutely can tell you what features work, what don't and what will make me (and other enthusiasts like me) buy and drive your car (currently own a c6 vette). Same deal with mmos...

[Trenter]

Wow. It didn't take the blinder-wearing fanboys very long to derail this thread, despite the OP being a very well-reasoned and constructive post. So I guess this is just proof that it doesn't matter if your content is constructive or mouth-foaming, the fanboys will shut you down.

 

Pfft, you can write a well thought out and constructive post about how you enjoy TOR and that the developers are doing a great job, and within seconds it's swarmed with hate posts and people trying to take it down. I'm sure you'd be in there aswell. Stop trying to act so friggin' superior. "Blinder-wearing fanboys"... People being this full of themselves and the ridiculous name calling is just fueling the anger on these forums. You know it, and that's why you keep at it I assume.

 

OP, great post. Though you bring up a lot of what people have been saying before, I think the more people that say it, the less the developers can afford to ignore it. Thanks for your insights, OP.

 

I agree, the OP made a good post. I agree with some of it.

[Nyla]

This is what I'm starting to think. Bioware is no longer a couple MDs who had a passion for games and made great content like baulder's gate or KOTOR because the love it and believe in it. Those guys are in some sort of VP position at EA now, doing whatever VPs at EA do. The people in Austin are just like many of us, perhaps the OP included, who spend their day in grey cubicles watching the clock click down to 5 (and posting on SWTOR forums). While it may be reasonable to assume the people in Austin really do love games/gaming, it is a fact that building a game is a very different process than playing one. Now I suspect they're just kind of jaded and spend their nights getting drunk at whatever local music scene in austin they're interested in (or playing Diablo or whatever), drag their hungover butts into work 15 minutes late, and spend half the day on facebook. How depressing would it be for them to actually read the forums and see what direction the community wants the game to go? I kind of feel bad now for trying to push them into fixing their population issues.

 

If they had the passion Bioware had before EA (that's a guess at the timeline); if they truly wanted a successful game; if there was any real intent to reduce the number of dropped subscriptions; something would have been done. No one in there right mind would think that saying "soon" every couple weeks would help. They just hope you believe enough to keep your subscription one more month.

 

Sure. They'll address their problems "soon," just like they did last month, just like they did in April, just like they did in February. In fact, I bet it's only a couple weeks away now. This time it's different. This time they mean it.

 

It's harsh to put things that way.

 

Things are way more complicated than that. Bioware is a big company, EA has thousands of employees. Decisions about what to make and when is splitted between many different people with different background and POV. Yes some don't understand at all what gamers could want but some are gamers and perfectly know what they want to see in a game.

 

Even if all the people at BW Austin would be really trying to make a "perfect" game, many decisions are made elsewhere and depends on other parts of BW, on people from EA, and also, I forgot to mention on Lucas Arts.

 

Some guys are really trying, don't put everyone in the same bag with the suit guy that went there to make money after he saw WoW's subs.

[Dezzi]

Pfft, you can write a well thought out and constructive post about how you enjoy TOR and that the developers are doing a great job, and within seconds it's swarmed with hate posts and people trying to take it down. I'm sure you'd be in there aswell. Stop trying to act so friggin' superior. "Blinder-wearing fanboys"... People being this full of themselves and the ridiculous name calling is just fueling the anger on these forums. You know it, and that's why you keep at it I assume.

 

I agree, the OP made a good post. I agree with some of it.

 

So because the love posts are swarmed with haters, that somehow makes it okay to for lovers to swarm the hate posts? I use these terms very loosely, because I don't want to offend you. They're there just to provide a frame of reference that will be easily recognizable.

 

And why I keep at it? What? I've got a record of 1500+ posts, so I encourage you to do a little digging and determine just how superior I think I am or just how much anger I fuel. I'll give you a hint... not much at all.

[dalekjs]

Wow. It didn't take the blinder-wearing fanboys very long to derail this thread, despite the OP being a very well-reasoned and constructive post. So I guess this is just proof that it doesn't matter if your content is constructive or mouth-foaming, the fanboys will shut you down.

 

How unfortunate.

 

OP, great post. Though you bring up a lot of what people have been saying before, I think the more people that say it, the less the developers can afford to ignore it. Thanks for your insights, OP.

 

This. I read the first page of responses and my only thought was: Wat.

 

I agree with pretty much everything written here, and I appreciate the suggestions posted!