Goretzu Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Exactly. No one would take anything from EQ2 if it wasn't respected. People enjoy the progression in EQ2. People were celebrating with each and every level cap increase. That's my point. I've been MMOing for over a decade now, and this is the first time I've ever seen anyone complain about a level cap increase. It's blowing my mind. This is the first MMORPG (Themepark anyway) that I've seen break the 18 month with proper expansion model (those that I've heard about do something similar have either been struggling hideously from launch or aging very badly). I know that model is horribly boring after 13 years, but it is still effective. The question is whether this new model is as effective. If you go back the the game that invented it, EQ1, both RoK had a VAST amount of content to go with the level raise of 10 levels (which was also a massive amount of play time to level, about the same as L1-50 IIRC). And the following SoV was a huge content expansion without any level raise, but it added to the game from L35 to L60 SWTOR seems to be opposite (from what we've seen) a 5 Level raise, with very little content. Personally at this point in SWTORs developement I'd personally much rather see a SoV type expansion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dronepilot Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 The gear your equipping already has mod levels on them, so you got mods at level 22 which is a level 50 mod. level 51 should be classed exactly as that, level 51, and so on. they go up to 61, so far so that basically means your gear would be the equivalent of being at that level in the game. If I were Bioware, I would just adjust peoples levels in game to represent their true level. If you got a full set of gear at any particular level then should be treated as an achievement to that level, so you got people with level 51 mods, they would be classed as a level 51 player. Basically they could do some thing along those lines, but change the level 50 end game content to match the difficulty and level for what ever level they think suits that quest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghaiana Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Mindbogling. I see nothing but complaints for months on these forums that there is not enough content, and once they announce new content, people start complaining that new content comes too fast. Since I am one of the players who does not care at all about endgame content (I don't see any point in gearing up) and since I think the strength of SWTOR are the stories, for me this is great news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlbo_Nabbins Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 That's because EQ2s raids and rewards scale. TOR's and WoW's don't. Did you miss that point? Not to mention EQ2 has a mentoring system, something else WoW and TOR lack. It has to be said that ToRs raids don't scale because they never needed to. There is probably nothing to stop BW introducing a new mode for the current ops for the new level cap and adding new itemisation tables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ignicity Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 (edited) It has to be said that ToRs raids don't scale because they never needed to. There is probably nothing to stop BW introducing a new mode for the current ops for the new level cap and adding new itemisation tables. So, we'd be grinding xp for new levels only to play fundamentally the exact same end game content that we currently have? Edited June 9, 2012 by Ignicity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 (edited) Mindbogling. I see nothing but complaints for months on these forums that there is not enough content, and once they announce new content, people start complaining that new content comes too fast. Since I am one of the players who does not care at all about endgame content (I don't see any point in gearing up) and since I think the strength of SWTOR are the stories, for me this is great news. Sorry, but that's a pretty short sighted point of view. If you ignore all PvP and PvE itemisation, and just concentrate on the story quests, Bioware has two major problems to deal with: 1. That's a fair small pool of players to be aiming at - so your story quality has to be exceptional to get a very high retention rate in that player pool. 2. Story content is both expensive and time consuming to produce - personally I don't see how they can produce story content at a rate that will satisify even the slowest players (never mind everyone else), especially for 8 different class stories. The reality is an successful MMORPG blends a series of different interest to retain a large and varied player base. PvP, RvR, PvE dungeons (casual and hardcore) and Raiding at the very least...... and SWTOR doesn't actually have all of those at the moment. Never mind the more sandboxy stuff that helps keep people playing. Breadth of a MMORPG is a least as important as depth, if they want it do be successful anyway. Edited June 9, 2012 by Goretzu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emeda Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Mindbogling. I see nothing but complaints for months on these forums that there is not enough content, and once they announce new content, people start complaining that new content comes too fast. Since I am one of the players who does not care at all about endgame content (I don't see any point in gearing up) and since I think the strength of SWTOR are the stories, for me this is great news. Its not the new content but the level cap increase thats the problem. Basically they are giving you 1 ops and taking away 3, if they added all the new stuff without raising the cap i dont think anyone would be complaining that much. The only real complaint about content I see is that they should fix the problems that are in the game now instead of adding new stuff (that will have new problems) along with the old problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackardin Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 (edited) So, we'd be grinding xp for new levels only to play fundamentally the exact same end game content that we currently have? What you call "grinding", I call pure joy. Perhaps you are looking at this from the wrong end of the horse? ;p Leveling in this game is, for the first time every, fun as hell. New content in any game is, well, fun as hell. New gear is fun too. New crafting is fun. How does all that turn to a negative? Because old content will be old? When is this due to come out? Few months? Honestly, my guild are a bunch of older, slow moving folks that are in no hurry to clear anything and we will have KP hard mode down on Sunday and probably finish EC in a few weeks. We'll have nightmare mode cleared in about a month and be thirsty for new content. If you are moving slower then us you had better check your pulse. Edited June 9, 2012 by Blackardin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ignicity Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 (edited) What you call "grinding", I call pure joy. Perhaps you are looking at this from the wrong end of the horse? ;p Leveling in this game is, for the first time every, fun as hell. New content in any game is, well, fun as hell. New gear is fun too. New crafting is fun. How does all that turn to a negative? Because old content will be old? When is this due to come out? Few months? Honestly, my guild are a bunch of older, slow moving folks that are in no hurry to clear anything and we will have KP hard mode down on Sunday and probably finish EC in a few weeks. We'll have nightmare mode cleared in about a month and be thirsty for new content. If you are moving slower then us you had better check your pulse. My point was not the grind. It's the rehashed content that the person I quoted was suggesting. Perhaps I should have bolded it for you. *EDIT* Edited the post in question to emphasize the point Edited June 9, 2012 by Ignicity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Leveling in this game is, for the first time every, fun as hell. It is great fun the 1st time through, it's less fun the 2nd time though.......... personally by the 4th time through the same content I'm pretty much sick of it. SWTOR really needs more content (and not just at L50 - never mind L55). What it really needs IMO is a Scars of Velious type expansion, that doesn't add player levels, but adds a boat load of content at L50 and a significant amount of levelling content from L20-L49. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thominoh Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 It is great fun the 1st time through, it's less fun the 2nd time though.......... personally by the 4th time through the same content I'm pretty much sick of it. SWTOR really needs more content (and not just at L50 - never mind L55). What it really needs IMO is a Scars of Velious type expansion, that doesn't add player levels, but adds a boat load of content at L50 and a significant amount of levelling content from L20-L49. I agree 110%.. The biggest bore to me is regrinding the same planets and quest lines over and over...... PS.. I would love Scars type of raiding too.. OPEN limit guild raiding.. I play to be social, not play some limited seats raiding bus game.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seregul Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 It has to be said that ToRs raids don't scale because they never needed to. There is probably nothing to stop BW introducing a new mode for the current ops for the new level cap and adding new itemisation tables. Or they could tune a new level capped player down to match the level 50 content, something like the bolster mechanic in 10-49 pvp just going the other way. Probably much less work that way. Daniel Erickson mentioned a change to combat in that DH interview, so it wouldn't be totally out of left field if they did something like that. If they want the current level 50 content to remain relevant they would have to either tune it to the new cap or tune players to match the content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlbo_Nabbins Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 (edited) That's really quite besides the point. We know, according to the video, that there is new gear coming. By the looks of it, though, only one set. And I'm willing to bet that it's only marginally better than Campaign gear, and will still require the acquisition of Campaign gear to acquire the new set. And, even at 55, given the shallow gear curve, it will still be in a player's best interest to gather Columi gear (level 56) before Black Hole/Campaign gear (level 58 and 61) to get the Campaign gear to get the new Azation gear (possibly level 63 or 64). All of which are higher than level 55. I agree, with the flat gear curve for SWTOR it would be pretty easy for the new PVE gear gained from levelling up to 54-55 to be about on par with Columi, with the extra levels it would make getting the Black Hole/Campaign gear easier and after that you go for the new Azation Gear. Much of the current content stays relevant (just a bit easier) but you wont have to grind Columi, and then you run the new Ops to get the Azation gear. Edited June 9, 2012 by Arlbo_Nabbins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenclaw Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Developers are not that smart raising the level cap already. No where near enough content to raise the level cap now. Remember that when you raise the level cap, all the stuff that exists now at level 50 becomes obsolete to run in an effective MMO. With only 3 operations at lvl 50, they would need to release like 4 new operations at once to make it at all fun. All the good people left this game already. I just check in on forums every week or so to see if they fixed the game yet. Obviously not...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiabloDoom Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 (edited) Developers are not that smart raising the level cap already. No where near enough content to raise the level cap now. Remember that when you raise the level cap, all the stuff that exists now at level 50 becomes obsolete to run in an effective MMO. With only 3 operations at lvl 50, they would need to release like 4 new operations at once to make it at all fun. All the good people left this game already. I just check in on forums every week or so to see if they fixed the game yet. Obviously not...... They've said that all lvl 50 gear etc will still be the end game gear, and the higher cap is just for a few new skills etc. I just hope they up the HM and ops because lvl 55 will kill lvl 50 mobs too easy as it's easy enough right now. Edited June 9, 2012 by DiabloDoom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Zone Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 This thread is still going. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeramieCrowe Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 SWTOR seems to be opposite (from what we've seen) a 5 Level raise, with very little content. That, in itself, should be plenty of indication that the new level raise won't impact the current endgame progressions, especially since DE said to Darth Hater that the endgame will still be considered as starting at level 50. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeramieCrowe Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 (edited) So, we'd be grinding xp for new levels only to play fundamentally the exact same end game content that we currently have? Correct, with one more tier added on top, and a whole new storyline addition with a new planet. Edited June 9, 2012 by JeramieCrowe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeramieCrowe Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 They've said that all lvl 50 gear etc will still be the end game gear, and the higher cap is just for a few new skills etc. I just hope they up the HM and ops because lvl 55 will kill lvl 50 mobs too easy as it's easy enough right now. Agreed. They've been needing to up the difficulty in these HMs and Ops, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shingara Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Just had a thought, see if you can follow my thinking on this. We at 50 are not that much better then we were at lvl 45, the only major diff is the gear we are able to wear due to level locks upon gear and mods. As such its not the levels that effect us but the cap on when and how we can equip and wear specific gear is it not. Thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svarteryttaren Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 I think that the news of the raised levelcap came with thews of other things and that became confusing since the two dont share the same time horizon. To OP. Go on and do whatever you where doing the raised cap will come sometime in the furure. Bioware just whanted to calm down those that are waiting on things like this. I'm not a great fan of raised levelcap either but they are a must to close the gap between new players and old at certain interwalls in all successfull MMO's (read WoW here). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 That, in itself, should be plenty of indication that the new level raise won't impact the current endgame progressions, especially since DE said to Darth Hater that the endgame will still be considered as starting at level 50. Hmm..... well I still think a Scars of Velious style expansion would have been better now. I mean Ruins of Kunark had VAST amounts of content not only for the L50 to L60 grind, but also for sub L50, and SoV just added to both. Where as SWTOR basically only has 2 paths to level (one either faction)....... and I can't see how it's begging for another 5 levels. It is begging for what SoV delivered though, more levelling content AND more max level content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tXHereticXt Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 I personally don't mind unless if they continue with the same art direction for new end-game gear. =/ Very few of the Campaign stuff actually looks neat.... very few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeramieCrowe Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Hmm..... well I still think a Scars of Velious style expansion would have been better now. I mean Ruins of Kunark had VAST amounts of content not only for the L50 to L60 grind, but also for sub L50, and SoV just added to both. Where as SWTOR basically only has 2 paths to level (one either faction)....... and I can't see how it's begging for another 5 levels. It is begging for what SoV delivered though, more levelling content AND more max level content. If it's free, then it's good like it is. If we have to pay the $9.99 that was on the E3 survey, then I agree. We need more content than they've highlighted, as in another Operation and Flashpoint on top. Still don't see a problem with the level cap increase either way, given that endgame will still start at 50. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeramieCrowe Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 I personally don't mind unless if they continue with the same art direction for new end-game gear. =/ Very few of the Campaign stuff actually looks neat.... very few. The new Guardian gear looked pretty sweet, @36 seconds in the E3 video. If the rest of the gear is that muted with taste, we're golden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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