Is Jedi Gaurdian DPS good enough to raid?

[Jadenfango]

I rolled a Jedi Knight and leveled him in Vigilance. Im just wondering if there is any possible way that my DPS will be at the very least competitive in a raid setting.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Don't see why not, I mean if your in a dps tree, have armor/weapon that is modded for dps. Then you should be a good dps.

[Lo_Pan]

No. You will not be able to out-dps a sentinal.

[Wolfninjajedi]

No. You will not be able to out-dps a sentinal.

 

Don't think that was the question, just that if he'll be viable for raids.

Edited June 4, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi

[AidanLightwalker]

No. You will not be able to out-dps a sentinal.

 

And this is proven where? Cause I bet they are close.

[Eternalnight]

Officially Bioware claims that all dps specs are within 5% of eachother.

[Funick]

it may not out damage equally geared/skilled sentinel but it more easily offtanks thanks to taunt and increases others damage thanks to armor debuff. they certainly put out enough damage that you can clear any boss in the game.

[Marqhill]

I've done Operations with my DPS Guardian and things went perfectly smoothly. You do want to make sure that you're geared for the task though. I was wearing PvP gear but it was Battle Master/War Hero gear at least so my damage was more than adequate. You just have to make sure that you're communicating with your group. That's pretty much all.

[JamieKirby]

Officially Bioware claims that all dps specs are within 5% of eachother.

 

Thats the thing, 5% more is still more and the elitist types think 5% is just as much as 20% more, i know, its how they think, which is why, dps guardians will only be viable for dps in guild runs that are not hardcore elitists.

 

Also, Bioware said that we could use any companion we want and not be punished for our choice, but we are, if we don't use our healer companion as a dps spec, we are going to die alot or end each fight with little to no health left, hence long downtime, but it does screw us over if we don't pick a certain companion.

 

In this situation, Male Bounty Hunters that are going lightside have it easy, since they get their healer from the get go and you get to romance them, the other classes have to wait a certain amount of time, knights being the longest and sadly, they are the ones that need it the most. lol

[JamieKirby]

it may not out damage equally geared/skilled sentinel but it more easily offtanks thanks to taunt and increases others damage thanks to armor debuff. they certainly put out enough damage that you can clear any boss in the game.

 

Another reason why i gave up with the guardian, offtanking, i HATE tanking completely, tried it, hated it and i hate dual-wielding, so that leaves the whole jedi knight from my usage and since they gimped anyway, i won't be seeing the story anytime soon.

[MimicUnleashed]

No. You will not be able to out-dps a sentinal.

 

A tank spec can out DPS a Sentinel who doesn't know what the heck they're doing. Good Sentinels and good Guardians stay close enough in damage that the only really bad difference is the Sentinels bring those group buffs. Beyond that? Easy

[kuey]

And this is proven where? Cause I bet they are close.

 

Of all the parses I've seen, I've yet to see a Vig/Veng spec top the 1400's, whilst I've seen Mara/Sent parses top 1700. Of course this is quite dependent on gear and skill. As for where those parses are, there's a few in the Mara class forums that I've run across in random posts and there's some parses in the DD Role forums.

[GarfieldJL]

A tank spec can out DPS a Sentinel who doesn't know what the heck they're doing. Good Sentinels and good Guardians stay close enough in damage that the only really bad difference is the Sentinels bring those group buffs. Beyond that? Easy

 

Sentinels also have a CC, and I think they have a self heal too.

[Caylen]

Of all the parses I've seen, I've yet to see a Vig/Veng spec top the 1400's, whilst I've seen Mara/Sent parses top 1700.

 

Is this an average across an entire operation (including trash), or just a spike? 'Cause I've never seen anyone average 700 DPS over an entire HM EV run, or 1700 for an entire boss fight.

 

See our raid's DPS parses from this past Sunday. http://dpsmeter.com/big0because

 

I'm the JK Vigilance Guardian averaging 546 DPS over the whole night, 1048 DPS on Infernal Council and 1040 DPS on Bonethrasher. I'm in nearly full Rakata and our Sentinel has slightly better gear than I.

 

We have no problem in HMs and are eagerly anticipating Nightmare modes in the next month or two after we finishing gearing up a tank and healer. Only a couple of our DPSers are full Rakata or higher, but I can't imagine the leap from Rakata to Black Hole can double anyone's DPS.

Edited June 6, 2012 by Caylen

[kuey]

Is this an average across an entire operation (including trash), or just a spike? 'Cause I've never seen anyone average 700 DPS over an entire HM EV run, or 1700 for an entire boss fight.

 

See our raid's DPS parses from this past Sunday. http://dpsmeter.com/big0because

 

I'm the JK Vigilance Guardian averaging 546 DPS over the whole night, 1048 DPS on Infernal Council and 1040 DPS on Bonethrasher. I'm in nearly full Rakata and our Sentinel has slightly better gear than I.

 

We have no problem in HMs and are eagerly anticipating Nightmare modes in the next month or two after we finishing gearing up a tank and healer. Only a couple of our DPSers are full Rakata or higher, but I can't imagine the leap from Rakata to Black Hole can double anyone's DPS.

 

Sorry I should of clarified, those parses were conducted on the ops dummy.

[Caylen]

Sorry I should of clarified, those parses were conducted on the ops dummy.

 

Thanks for the clarification.

[akabane_k]

about doubled your dps, http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog/0f3ff1e6-9a6b-40f6-a96e-703c9638f53d/overview#d=0,f=159,t=129,b=1

 

I've heard others say its possible to get that high on other classes, but thats including dotting 2 bosses or aoeing adds down.

[Caylen]

Thanks for showing me your log. That gives us all something to strive for, assuming both of our parsers are accurate. However, since your DPS also doubles our Sentinel's, I'm not going to rule out the possibility that Vigilance DPS can match Sentinel DPS---at least not just yet.

[Cancrizans]

No. You will not be able to out-dps a sentinal.

 

Lolol I seriously laugh at anyone who tries to cop an elitist attitude playing THIS game. Damned right a specced and well geared Guardian will do fine in a raid. Anyone who thinks they are getting a raid-making DPS increase choosing Sentinel over Guardian is a total tool. And I play a Sentinel.

[myrrhbear]

As it stands now, I would tell anyone choosing which class who wants to play DPS to NOT choose Guardian. Though Guardians have lots of good stuff, as far as DPS for PvE Ops, there are other classes that are WAY stronger. The gap is so large that you will hear people say they would rather bring almost any other class for a DPS slot, and will only bring a Guardian if the content is relatively easy, or for lack of someone else for the spot. Not everyone will do that to you, but some people will, and though it feels rather cruel to be on the receiving end of, it is backed up by tested data on DPS output.

[Aienir]

As it stands now, I would tell anyone choosing which class who wants to play DPS to NOT choose Guardian. Though Guardians have lots of good stuff, as far as DPS for PvE Ops, there are other classes that are WAY stronger. The gap is so large that you will hear people say they would rather bring almost any other class for a DPS slot, and will only bring a Guardian if the content is relatively easy, or for lack of someone else for the spot. Not everyone will do that to you, but some people will, and though it feels rather cruel to be on the receiving end of, it is backed up by tested data on DPS output.

 

 

No. Wrong. Stop. Learn to play your class. I've seen you post this in 4 different threads already, and I have to just step in and say something because I can't really take you trashing a perfectly viable, even preferable, spec for PVE as DPS goes.

 

Single target DPS the guardian in vigilance is a beast. At the moment only a sentinal can out DPS you in single target, and that's only by a small margin. I have a full campaign gear JG and farm EC with my raid team and im second in dps, only being outdone by the sentinal on our team. at all times. ive hit 1600 dps using MOX parser on tons of fights. The class is fine. The only true issue isn't damage, but survivability. take a look at your rotation/spec and your gear cause you are obviously doing stuff wrong.

 

Even in pvp, I will constanlty do more than 300k damage, breaking 500k

 

And yes, I will provide you MOX parser links.

Edited June 8, 2012 by Aienir

[myrrhbear]

^ You missed the critical factor I specified and did exactly what simply serves to shoot us all in the foot, or face as the case may be. You are saying you love the class, and see that you do great. So do I. Saying l2p is simply rude btw. The issue is not whether from person to person some people excel using Vigilance specced Guardians relative to the people they are running with (= not exactly the same as Juggernauts btw). The issue is if ALL ELSE IS EQUAL - same datacrons, gear, optimized skill tree choices, and proficient skill at playing the character - that other classes greatly outstrip Vigilance Guardians in DPS in a PvE context. You can love your class and take pride in it, but math is math. If you parse the data this is the results you will find.

 

Just because you love the class and play it very well, (as do I) doesn't mean we are on par with an equally well set-up Sage or Sentinel or Gunslinger or ...

 

If you actually parse numbers for each class, and take measures to remove variables, like have each person remove all gear, and use only the lowest level weapon available, and with the same buffs etc... and then compare DPS over 5 min or 10 min of testing against a training dummy, you will see the gap in our DpS vs other's.

 

P.S. The reason I posted on the forums in several places today was because I was repeatedly asked by people I spoke with working at Bioware to do so.

[myrrhbear]

It's weird that people react defensively for a class they like, and deny any areas we lack in, despite raw data, when acknowledging an issue is the first necessary step to improve it.

 

The result if our developers take these posts about our lack of DPS seriously is that our class will be better. If they do testing of their own and find that we are within a 5% margin of an equally good Sage, then nothing is lost. Protesting that we have any lack is the surest way to HARM our class, preventing any improvement.

 

And if you want to insist that you are within the top of DPS... run MOX please, and test yourself against the training dummy for 5 min, and post your data here.

[Aienir]

^ You missed the critical factor I specified and did exactly what simply serves to shoot us all in the foot, or face as the case may be. You are saying you love the class, and see that you do great. So do I. Saying l2p is simply rude btw. The issue is not whether from person to person some people excel using Vigilance specced Guardians relative to the people they are running with (= not exactly the same as Juggernauts btw). The issue is if ALL ELSE IS EQUAL - same datacrons, gear, optimized skill tree choices, and proficient skill at playing the character - that other classes greatly outstrip Vigilance Guardians in DPS in a PvE context. You can love your class and take pride in it, but math is math. If you parse the data this is the results you will find.

 

Just because you love the class and play it very well, (as do I) doesn't mean we are on par with an equally well set-up Sage or Sentinel or Gunslinger or ...

 

If you actually parse numbers for each class, and take measures to remove variables, like have each person remove all gear, and use only the lowest level weapon available, and with the same buffs etc... and then compare DPS over 5 min or 10 min of testing against a training dummy, you will see the gap in our DpS vs other's.

 

P.S. The reason I posted on the forums in several places today was because I was repeatedly asked by people I spoke with working at Bioware to do so.

 

I have a level 50 Sorc DPS and a level 50 assault specced vanguard, while not anywhere near as geared as my guardian, they still not doing enough damage as my guardian. I have parsed the numbers and no, the other classes are not better than we are save the sentinal. We are on par with the rest of the classes if not ahead of many if you do your rotation right, and stack the right gear.

 

My apologies if i came across as rude, it was 4 am where i am and im quite tired of the constant QQ about our class being underpowered.

 

I will later today take all my 50 chars, use base level weapons that i can find as equally powerful, and have them dps and record the numbers.

Edited June 8, 2012 by Aienir

[myrrhbear]

I am not crying about a lack of DPS. I am extremely well geared and an experienced player. I read a lot about how to optimize our performance and play my class well. That has nothing to do with how our DPS compares to an equally well geared and proficient character on other classes.

 

You are comparing unequally geared characters, and that makes a huge difference, assuming even equal skill with the different characters.

 

The day you put out 550k DPS in a wz, or over 2000 DPS in a MOX test, then you can say Vigilance Guardians are even remotely close to the average DPS of other classes.

 

You aren't "defending" Guardians by insisting we are up to par. Comparing classes at different levels, faction, and with different gear is not valid data.

 

I hope the Devs do their own testing and come to their own conclusions.