Itukaaj Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 I did render a suggestion a while back that the ability Mind Trick be given some kind of PvP utility. My suggestion at that time was either a target drop, or a single target invisibility (i.e. you become invisible to the person you used it on, all other hostiles can still see you). I was also thinking of cloud mind. I would prefer a target drop rather than invisibility. I don't want the advantage of repositioning against 1 or multiple enemies through that tool. That belongs to other classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComeAndSee Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 (edited) Really something simple like this would help. Healers: * (new talent) Force Potency now also lowers the cast time of your next Deliverance by 50%, but increase's its cost by 50%. Consumes 1 charge. * (new talent) Your next Healing Trance is uninterruptable and it's critical healing chance is increased by 15%. 30s cooldown. * (new talent) Increase's Rejuvenate's critical healing bonus by 30%. <-- Nerf initial Rejuvenate heal to compensate. It can also stack twice, but cannot be refreshed after 2 times and can only stack twice on one target. * Egress is now 50% speed increase instead of 20%. Edited June 4, 2012 by ComeAndSee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itukaaj Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Really something simple like this would help. Healers: * (new talent) Force Potency now also lowers the cast time of your next Deliverance by 50%, but increase's its cost by 50%. Consumes 1 charge. * (new talent) Your next Healing Trance is uninterruptable and it's critical healing chance is increased by 15%. 30s cooldown. * (new talent) Increase's Rejuvenate's critical healing bonus by 30%. <-- Nerf initial Rejuvenate heal to compensate. It can also stack twice, but cannot be refreshed after 2 times. * Egress is now 50% speed increase instead of 20%. This topic has changed to general improvements rather than just about a defensive cd. As far as heals I would take a different track. Resurgance and Purge on a 1 second CD making it spammable and allow the Sorc to cover group and also a focused target. Reduce the cast time for Dark Infusion by .4 seconds. This will balance it by making it more possible while still requiring some skill to get it off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BambulaGTS Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 I do not understand why you insist on lowering cast times while having talents to reduce pushback to almost none on every single healing class. It is not wise broskies to have 75 % pushback protection and low cast times. You should be vulnerable to something either pushbacks or interrupts. You can't have counter to all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karnyboy Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 (edited) Call me a troll, but they do have one, it's called shield and sprint. If you can't kite melee around you're doing it wrong. Also, I forgot to add, if you're the only healer in a WZ, then you will most likely have a hard time and life sucks and all that jazz. It's a lot easier to focus fire a single target than to spread that focus across another healer and/or two guarding tanks. Just saying group composition is everything in SWTOR pvp. Stop whining, sages/Sorcs healers are still VERY VERY powerful Edited June 4, 2012 by karnyboy bla bla bla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itukaaj Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Call me a troll, but they do have one, it's called shield and sprint. If you can't kite melee around you're doing it wrong. Also, I forgot to add, if you're the only healer in a WZ, then you will most likely have a hard time and life sucks and all that jazz. It's a lot easier to focus fire a single target than to spread that focus across another healer and/or two guarding tanks. Just saying group composition is everything in SWTOR pvp. Stop whining, sages/Sorcs healers are still VERY VERY powerful Maybe. My experience is being the only healer most of the time and that is as a hybrid. And still being chased/focused even in a different spec because well only about 35 ppl play and we target by name now-which in some ways is good community. You also assume only premade team play. These abilities not op by not changing values or resource usage only cast times. .4 seconds still allows for plenty interrupts just changes a flag" please smash me." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComeAndSee Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 (edited) Call me a troll, but they do have one, it's called shield and sprint. Shield isn't really a defensive cooldown because it can be used on everyone. It's more like a temporary health increase because it doesn't heal you. Sprint is effective at getting away, but really it's a short term bandaid after it's off cooldown. If you can't kite melee around you're doing it wrong. Marauders/Juggernauts, yeah. Not a problem. Pyrotechs and Operatives you can't get out of their slows. Also, if a Sage is slowing you while melee are on you than you're screwed. Kiting really is a way to deter people from trying to chase you around because eventually most people give up. Also, I forgot to add, if you're the only healer in a WZ, then you will most likely have a hard time and life sucks and all that jazz. It's a lot easier to focus fire a single target than to spread that focus across another healer and/or two guarding tanks. Really it comes down to how well you are at hiding, but really Sages lag behind when it comes to healing under pressure. I mean, all you have is Healing Trance, Shield, and Rejuvenate. Break down the barrier, get slowed, and you're screwed. Just saying group composition is everything in SWTOR pvp. Stop whining, sages/Sorcs healers are still VERY VERY powerful Sage Healers are very powerful if they're left alone or are supported by another healer. Edited June 4, 2012 by ComeAndSee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Philar Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Call me a troll, but they do have one, it's called shield and sprint. If you can't kite melee around you're doing it wrong. Also, I forgot to add, if you're the only healer in a WZ, then you will most likely have a hard time and life sucks and all that jazz. It's a lot easier to focus fire a single target than to spread that focus across another healer and/or two guarding tanks. Just saying group composition is everything in SWTOR pvp. Stop whining, sages/Sorcs healers are still VERY VERY powerful Force Speed is a Kiting Tool, (and not a very effective one either since it has twice the CD of melee gap closers). Bubble is a heal, not a DCD or a Kiting Tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LancelotOC Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 They already said they are not doing anything to change Sage/Sorcs mutiple times.. why do you guys even keep hoping? Please give up as I have and lets talk about something else, like the next game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itukaaj Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 (edited) They already said they are not doing anything to change Sage/Sorcs mutiple times.. why do you guys even keep hoping? Please give up as I have and lets talk about something else, like the next game. I already see myself as just a utility player. There is no room In an 8 man group for that luxury. Hoping some changes will happen that won't unbalance PVE. They are indeed happy with sorcerer care bear performance. Hopefully, they have data with regard to pvp performance. Once rateds come out sorcerers will become the lock ness monsters of pvp. There will be sightings but no real proof of their existence. Edited June 4, 2012 by Itukaaj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LancelotOC Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 I agree but if you touch a stove and you get burnt you learn not to touch the stone any more. The BW Devs and the same Devs at Mythic before have always been pro-DPS and extremely fearful/paranoid about tank healers. They will not increase our defence because they are afraid we will start killing people if we can survive the DPS. The last game they gave strong healing in was DAOC and even there they regarded healer hybrids specced for DPS with deep disdain. If you really want this to have any hope of this flying you have to present it to them with a defense bonus at the cost of more of our damage. They are ok with more defence on healers if it takes the healer an extremely long time to kill anyone. People playing healers taking twice as long to level because of non existant damage are usually just as unhappy though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IamScarap Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 If someone pops Entrench on you, run behind Line of Sight and wait. congratulations, you just wasted their best CD. Seriously though, you have a ridiculous bubble on a 30 second cool down, as well as sprint, aoe knock back, and two ranged stuns. I feel like you've got plenty of defensive CDs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zepidel Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Sorcs dont have any defensive CDs? Dam I wish I didn't have any defensive CDs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleeptastic Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Sorcs dont have any defensive CDs? Dam I wish I didn't have any defensive CDs. The key is to define "defensive cooldown" to make it look like you have nothing to keep you alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashania Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Uninterruptable whilst shield is active! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComeAndSee Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 The key is to define "defensive cooldown" to make it look like you have nothing to keep you alive. Sages just have kiting tools. Put them in the situation where they can't kite and they have nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hethroin Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Sages just have kiting tools. Put them in the situation where they can't kite and they have nothing. Is that like a 5x5 box with high walls? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EbonFade Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 I agree. Not only are sorcerors behind primary dps classes like Sents and Gunslingers in terms of single target sustained damage as well as burst, but they have less survivability against good players. Yes, they have lots of utility in huttball. Other than that one warzone, they need help on multiple fronts. IMO they should at the very least be the highest single target sustained dps in the game. Other than that, they should have at least as many defensive abilities as the medium armor wearing Marauders. The usefulness of AOEs in wzs are grossly overvalued by BW, and quite honestly they never should have been nerfed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Philar Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 If someone pops Entrench on you, run behind Line of Sight and wait. congratulations, you just wasted their best CD. Seriously though, you have a ridiculous bubble on a 30 second cool down, as well as sprint, aoe knock back, and two ranged stuns. I feel like you've got plenty of defensive CDs. Bubble absorbs 1 GCD of damage (less if the damage crits). It is also a HEAL, not a DCD. Sprint and Knockback are KITING tools, not DCDs. We have 1 ranged stun (not 2) and that is a CC, not a DCD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurricaneXXIV Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Melee get's CDs, stealth or passive mitigation. Ranged get's ways to kite. It's the trade off of fighting in melee vs being ranged. Sorcs are fine, if you want to live longer work on positioning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LancelotOC Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Uninterruptable whilst shield is active! Not uninterutable , you can't push us back when shield is up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LancelotOC Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Melee get's CDs, stealth or passive mitigation. Ranged get's ways to kite. It's the trade off of fighting in melee vs being ranged. Sorcs are fine, if you want to live longer work on positioning. Yes try to position yourself on not being in the WZ que. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orangerascal Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Here's the question: Which is the squishiest class in the game? Now ask which is the best healer? How about the best dps ? . . . did something go wrong in the design? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zepidel Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 The BW Devs and the same Devs at Mythic before have always been pro-DPS and extremely fearful/paranoid about tank healers. They will not increase our defence because they are afraid we will start killing people if we can survive the DPS. Oh yes, Warrior Priests and Disciples of Khaine had TERRIBLE survivability. Couldn't tank and heal worth a damn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanimal Posted June 5, 2012 Author Share Posted June 5, 2012 (edited) Glad to see most of the uninformed players who keep saying L2Play, L2Kite leave the thread in exchange for well-informed suggestions. I want to add a suggestion that I read in another thread that even though would require skill to master (similar to ice block) but would be easier to implement for BW. The ability to cast affliction on friendly units for a small% of self-healing. Making affliction have a double purpose. This would force the sorcerer to move with the pack (which is what is recommended anyway) rather than trying to solo guard a node (silly). BW would have to come up with the numbers themselves based on their awesome metric system as to what the actual self-heal numbers would be. This would make pure madness a viable spec in terms of surviveability. It would help lightning a little bit but they would have to do something else to the lightning tree to increase burst. When the 31 Pointer CHANNELED ability of lightning is useless compared to an instant hit like railshot by a less squishy class, something is wrong. The major drawback of this is that we would be very very dependant on the awful targeting system of Bioware. I still prefer a 2-3 second Iceblock though. Edited June 5, 2012 by Lanimal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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