LancelotOC Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Agreed we need to nerf operatives. Yep I know it's not the popular thing to say but OPs are beast! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raansu Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 lol.. a good player playing an op is still quite deadly.. just because they can't double opener anymore doesn't make them a bad class. i love playing my op, reminds me of my rogue in wow.. just have to play smart and pick your battles.. just like any stealth class should. A good player still struggles against the majority of the classes unless they jump someone at 50% hp or jumped a bad player. The class is gimped and it needs a buff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgemcfly Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 A really good player doesn't come to the forums to brag. It just seems you were really defensive when he stated L2P. Immaturity is running rampant on both sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MimicUnleashed Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 lol no, not even close. I don't even break on their opener and let them take me down to 50% and I still burn them down from 100%-0% faster than they can get me just to 20% after letting them burn me down to 50%. Only the EXTREMELY good players can do any real damage to me and even then its an uphill fight. I feel bad for operatives, the class is gimped(dps wise) and I have mad respect for anyone who does well with them in concealment spec. The nerf's they got were ridiculous and they definitely need to get a bone thrown their way soon. Despite my signature, I agree Operatives were over-nerfed. They were a little too powerful before, now they need some love. Some of this came as other classes were buffed upwards recently beyond the old cap. Perhaps it was needed to ease the leveling and endgame, I won't disagree, but the PvP game needs to be rethought. Attempting to balance around Expertise seems to be as difficult as balancing the classes themselves. And considering the Operative's current woes balancing between them being too bursty or too sluggish to kill, I cant even guess how to fix it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raansu Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Despite my signature, I agree Operatives were over-nerfed. They were a little too powerful before, now they need some love. Some of this came as other classes were buffed upwards recently beyond the old cap. Perhaps it was needed to ease the leveling and endgame, I won't disagree, but the PvP game needs to be rethought. Attempting to balance around Expertise seems to be as difficult as balancing the classes themselves. And considering the Operative's current woes balancing between them being too bursty or too sluggish to kill, I cant even guess how to fix it. I honestly thought they were fine at launch. The problem was level 50's with expertise stats blowing up level 10's...Once 50's got separated and they fixed the buff stacking they were fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leiralei Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Thanks for the lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 If you allow the vanish -> stealth mez -> regen to full trick an Op is still pretty strong 1on1 just because it's like having 2 lifebars to work with compared to 1 for your enemy. That said this pretty much can only happen in a duel. You're almost never truly alone in WZ and as long as anyone else sees you, it'd be obvious what you're doing and they can easily stop that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 I honestly thought they were fine at launch. The problem was level 50's with expertise stats blowing up level 10's...Once 50's got separated and they fixed the buff stacking they were fine. Concealement did do way too much damage from their opener even on appropriately geared enemies. The only class that can withstand it was Tankasin because of Force Shroud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uchoo Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 A Mara in WH should walk over most Ops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MimicUnleashed Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Concealement did do way too much damage from their opener even on appropriately geared enemies. The only class that can withstand it was Tankasin because of Force Shroud. But now they couldn't kill time with an infomercial spec. That's the problem. Somewhere in the middle there has to be a balancing point. Heck, I even think the resolve bar could fix some of these issues. Resolve bar full? Immune to CC and 20% damage reduction until it's done. It'd make those CC-heavy teams have to re-strategize and could make the Concealment and other stun-heavy specs have to play with more tact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmasterr Posted June 1, 2012 Author Share Posted June 1, 2012 A really good player doesn't come to the forums to brag. It just seems you were really defensive when he stated L2P. Immaturity is running rampant on both sides. Brag? I am sorry if you are so lacking in experience to think this was something to brag about. If it wasn't for his arrogance, i wouldn't have thought more of it, but i decided to challenge his self proclaimed awesomeness, and the outcome provided me with a good laugh. Laugh i wanted to share with others. If i wanted to brag with something i would have done so with my "achievements" in WoW, or when i get rank 1 in SWTOR, not beating up some random sap player who thinks time spent in WZ = skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 But now they couldn't kill time with an infomercial spec. That's the problem. Somewhere in the middle there has to be a balancing point. Heck, I even think the resolve bar could fix some of these issues. Resolve bar full? Immune to CC and 20% damage reduction until it's done. It'd make those CC-heavy teams have to re-strategize and could make the Concealment and other stun-heavy specs have to play with more tact. I think it'd make more sense to make Hidden Strike a strong CC move instead of strong DPS move. It should behave like having an extra Debiliate to use while doing nominal damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MimicUnleashed Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 I think it'd make more sense to make Hidden Strike a strong CC move instead of strong DPS move. It should behave like having an extra Debiliate to use while doing nominal damage. Entirely possible. I'm just worried about overall DPS if that move gets neutered. And then there's burst to consider because if you try to equal damage with less strikes it gets burstier, and burst is not BW's favorite thing. Or have you not noticed that Assassins keep getting the PvE shaft because they're right where BW wants them for PvP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Entirely possible. I'm just worried about overall DPS if that move gets neutered. And then there's burst to consider because if you try to equal damage with less strikes it gets burstier, and burst is not BW's favorite thing. Or have you not noticed that Assassins keep getting the PvE shaft because they're right where BW wants them for PvP? I don't think stealth should be used to balance DPS, especially since moves like Wither catches stealth rather easily. Let's say Hidden Strike just becomes "Debiliate only usable in stelath", then you obviously would add a bit more DPS to the normal moves (probably tack them on to Backstab) to ensure the total burst DPS is still roughly the same. It won't be easy to balance but there's nothing inherently impossible about that. After all Assassins can burst fine and don't have any move that does more damage as a function of being in stealth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MimicUnleashed Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 I don't think stealth should be used to balance DPS, especially since moves like Wither catches stealth rather easily. Let's say Hidden Strike just becomes "Debiliate only usable in stelath", then you obviously would add a bit more DPS to the normal moves (probably tack them on to Backstab) to ensure the total burst DPS is still roughly the same. It won't be easy to balance but there's nothing inherently impossible about that. After all Assassins can burst fine and don't have any move that does more damage as a function of being in stealth. Of course, but they PvE damage output is very low-end. Because if they gave them more damage they'd burst someone's head off their shoulders. Too few strikes, too much damage to even out among them. I worry that IA would get that same kick in the shorts and pretty much wreck the whole class for both sides of the game. I think it was a small miracle that Guardians/Juggs were even remotely balanced and can do decent damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimsPicken Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Agreed we need to nerf operatives. Cy, I must admit, I wait for your response on every one of these threads and always lol. well played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blasphemerr Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 You know you're bad when you lose to an operative as ANY class 5 times in a row. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimsPicken Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 You know you're bad when you lose to an operative as ANY class 5 times in a row. try merc arsenal against a hybrid OP and see if you can even win 1 out of 50. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashivauto Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 I swear this is my favorite thread of all the threads on this forum, it has me lmaoirl Thanks op it trully made my day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raansu Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Concealement did do way too much damage from their opener even on appropriately geared enemies. The only class that can withstand it was Tankasin because of Force Shroud. But how do you know? They got nerfed before any real testing could be done. The game was still new, people were still getting geared, but they definitely performed way less when they got moved to the 50's only bracket compared to before when they were blasting lowbies for 8k. They are a burst class, they should damn near kill you when they pop out of cloak because once they are out they are squishy as all hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alericus Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Dont nerf any class, nerf the chat.......this is the issue less bla bla more blam blam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zilrota Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Hello everyone, We are closing this thread. While we understand that players can be frustrated with the community at times, please understand that threads like this tend to result in flame wars and have little room for constructive discussion. In the future, we encourage you to create threads that foster constructive discussion and not ones which criticize the community. We appreciate your understanding that we've closed this thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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