On dead servers, people leaving, and more.

[Eirienie]

I've played this game since early access, and before that, since the open beta. I fell in love with its game play, it's beauty, and the marvel that is the SW Universe.

 

But Bioware/EA/Whoever is really running things, is running the game into the ground. The past few months have seen a crashing and burning SWTOR population. A lot of the reasons why are very fixable, as well. However, instead, they wish to continue to sift through the players to earn more real world credits and ignore the major issues that are absolutely killing this game for it's main player base.

 

1. Gear earning, pvp hardmodes, raids and the like are all watered down to ultra simplicity and extremely easy to achieve/complete.

 

First and foremost, the redone PvP gear/PvP medal mechanics have obliterated the challenge and difficulty of becoming a competitive PvPer, especially in the level 50 queue. Let's face it, prior to those changes, pvp required strategy and effort to meet the goals for a win. Winning meant medals. You could essentially obliterate the other team in kills, and still lose due to lack of strategy. it was fun, challenging, and new 50s had a long climb to reach Battlemaster and other ranks for the better gear. Now, it is overly simplistic, all gear oriented, and all the main achievements of pvp are earned in such an easy fashion that few people stick with it. And hence, They leave the game because those goals are so easily accomplished.

 

Hardmodes and Raids are the simplest i've ever seen in any MMO in my 12 years of playing them. What is so hard about having to out dps an enrage timer? Where is the actual effort and strategy involved? Every boss, every instance, every time, it's all about "can you kill him before he goes into rage?" How lame. It chases people away.

 

Gear wise, just about any new 50 can get all their top gears, pvp or pve, in a couple weeks time. Do your daily HM quest everyday, your weekly quest for them 2 or 3 weeks in a row, and you're going to be full Columi in a faster time than it took you to reach 50. Join a guild that does raids, and you'll be full Rakata in no time as well. Pvp wise, valor ranks come so easily now, and the rank restrictions were removed from most gear. So that is easily earned as well. Handing everything to people on a silver platter for little effort just makes people leave. They run out of things to do far too fast, and leave.

 

2. The leveling zones/planets are intensely boring after your first run through.

 

Every aspect of an MMO is a grind in some fashion. But the combat in this game is so simple. Kudos to the devs however, because they make every class feel like they are one man army. But so what? The layouts of the planets, or most of them anyway, are god awful. The stories the first time, are pretty neat. But the second playthrough, assuming you want to play through a second time just to stay in the game, pulls up the sheer redundancy and plainness of the game's leveling to the forefront. And the poor planet layouts start to show more and more. It becomes aggrevating more than fun.

 

The game's one saving grace, the class storylines, are redundant in themselves. Everyone is a galactic savior, single handedly saving all living beings or single handedly toppling society. If I wanted to play Mass Effect, I'd go pay 50 bucks one time and be done with it. Not pay 15 a month over and over to keep playing it.

 

3. They overshot their expectations with player populations, and the majority of servers are dead silent.

 

You can't find groups if you arent in a large guild. You can spend all day and be one of maybe 3 people to ever step foot on a single planet. The player hub area, the fleets, are often ghost towns with under 30 people the majority of the day.

 

Age of Conan, a game long thought to be dead, had 494 people playing on my old server saturday night. One server I play on in SWTOR had 198, summing up everyone on every planet i went to. The other, a measely 103. Yet Age of Conan is thought to be the dead game. Then what does that make SWTOR?

 

4. Server transfers is only a way to harness more dollars from the players, not solve the population per server issue.

 

If they really wanted to solve the problem, they'd condense servers. 6 RP servers? Make it 3. 10 Pve? Make it 5. Etc. Some mergers would be time consuming, but it'd be a saving grace to all the people who want to stay but have so little reason to do so.

 

Instead, they want to charge us money to transfer servers and possibly end up in the same situation, and have to pay again to find another new server. I understand it's business.But sapping players for every last dollar instead of fixing the real issue is why EA is arguably the most disliked company of our generation.

 

---

To sum things up, people are leaving. And leaving in droves. Many new subscribers come to the fold, and they are gone shortly after too. The servers are ghost towns, the main aspects of the game at level 50 are simplistic, and few people want to level through those poor zone/planet designs a second time just to stick around and have something to do.

 

I do NOT plan to leave SWTOR. But I fear for the games future if this current trend continues. If people wanted to play WoW, they would go play WoW. And at the moment, all this game is, is a much lower population version of WoW, with lightsabers instead of steel blades.

[kirorx]

Need more open world and chat bubbles.

 

I cant speak for everyone but those two lacking aspects seriously affect my gameplay over the long term.

 

The reason is because i play pay to play mmo games for the virtual world and the community.

 

When the content is dried up i want to be able to still log in because I enjoy the world that has been created not just because i am grinding warzone comms.

 

Hopefully, they can add some more open non leveling areas for some the planets and put some effort in things like chat bubbles and emotes.

[Celebrus]

If I hadn't joined this game in EGA when the pop was surging I probably wouldn't have stuck around as long as I have, seeing the servers in the state they are in alone would have probably sent me packing.

 

Pretty well said though, I agree on all four of the major points you brought up, but I'd have to say that the population issues are a symptom of a bigger problem, which you mention at the end of your post: end game is simplistic, and at the beginning of your post: Gearing is simplistic.

 

The lack of a real grind in this game (other than war hero gear at the moment, which, in my opinion at least, is a legitimate grind) is what has hurt this game the most from the beginning. The population needs to be addressed, and then the simplicity of the game should be addressed, it needs more hard.

[Eirienie]

If I hadn't joined this game in EGA when the pop was surging I probably wouldn't have stuck around as long as I have, seeing the servers in the state they are in alone would have probably sent me packing.

 

Pretty well said though, I agree on all four of the major points you brought up, but I'd have to say that the population issues are a symptom of a bigger problem, which you mention at the end of your post: end game is simplistic, and at the beginning of your post: Gearing is simplistic.

 

The lack of a real grind in this game (other than war hero gear at the moment, which, in my opinion at least, is a legitimate grind) is what has hurt this game the most from the beginning. The population needs to be addressed, and then the simplicity of the game should be addressed, it needs more hard.

 

I'm not saying everything should take years to complete or something, btw. But yes. The over simplicity of so much of the core MMO concepts is driving people away, and its killing the game.

[Eirienie]

What this game really needs, is a fuel injection.

 

Something that not only sparks community endeavors, but something that keeps level 50's here. Rather than beating the single player portion of the game and rowboating back to whatever game they came from, we need to push the community and the core MMO aspects to the forefront and give folks a chance to join such elements with excited optimism.

 

But in order to do so, too many things would have to change. And let's face it...that just isn't going to happen. The company wanted to appeal to the WoW scene, and that is what they're getting. But unlike WoW, SWTOR doesnt have like a decade of history with its gamers. So there is no loyalty type feeling to keep people playing.

[Celebrus]

I'm not saying everything should take years to complete or something, btw. But yes. The over simplicity of so much of the core MMO concepts is driving people away, and its killing the game.

 

Well, what I mean by war hero being a legitimate grind isn't that everything should take months to accomplish, but I point it out because at the moment it's probably the most time consuming set to attain.

 

I just feel like, as you say, the game is missing a lot of the things that really make MMOs great, and one of those things is difficulty. But at the same time, it's been clear ever since legacy was announced that they wanted it to be a game in which you can accomplish things over your entire legacy, and not be restricted to gearing one character for months/years on end.

 

It's going to be difficult to balance.

[CosmicKat]

I'm not saying everything should take years to complete or something, btw. But yes. The over simplicity of so much of the core MMO concepts is driving people away, and its killing the game.

 

Agreed.

I'd go so far as to say it is killing the MMO genre completely. Gaming companies have lost focus of what made MMO's popular in the first place. I wouldn't want to go back to the career-level of time that Everquest originally required but it sure would be nice to have a fraction of its challenge, sense of accomplishment, sense of danger, and sense of exploration. SWTOR is a good game but it has none of those things.

[Eirienie]

Agreed.

I'd go so far as to say it is killing the MMO genre completely. Gaming companies have lost focus of what made MMO's popular in the first place. I wouldn't want to go back to the career-level of time that Everquest originally required but it sure would be nice to have a fraction of its challenge, sense of accomplishment, sense of danger, and sense of exploration. SWTOR is a good game but it has none of those things.

 

I guess this is why I played Age of Conan for 4 years. it was HARD. Everything required time, effort. And when you finished something, you felt like you achieved something - and above all, you felt like you got your money's worth out of the game. And the leveling, raiding, etc were so hard that you were EAGER to see how well you'd handle it as another character class. So you go through it all again with excitement.

 

But that same difficulty is why it was never a huge success. And the lack of difficulty is why WoW is a huge success. Choosing to appeal to the childish pick up and play and be great model, or the advanced lots of learning curve and strategy model, is hard on a company. They see games like AoC and say, well, that company isnt making billions. But WoW is. So lets go the WoW model. The problem is, WoW is the EXCEPTION, not the rule.

 

Some of the best MMOs in gaming history were of the difficult, time consuming, effort requiring models. And those games put MMOs on the map. EQ, UO, etc were hard and had a cult following of millions of players who stayed to the bitter end of the game, and were heartbroken when such a journey ended. While WoW players come and go like a revolving door, make the community one of the worst in any MMO in history.

[trussasp]

Hi OP:

 

Yep, we all agree, and are bummed as well...

[Karabal]

Need more open world and chat bubbles.

 

chat bubbles and emotes.

 

Yes that's what is needed. If only EA and Bioware could see past the fluff like like dead servers, buggy sounds. And lack of features such as cross server PvP and LFG tools!!!

 

OH LORDY WEN CAN I HAZ BUBLZ!!!

[DiabloDoom]

I too have been playing online games for 12 years, and I'm really enjoying the game. I had to reroll, the game is structured for the casual gamer, but regardless, I'm having a great time and this is the first game in 11 years (apart from DOW) that I can see myself to continue to play. BTW, there are very few games that actually have "raids", and they certainly were none 12 years ago. I think, so don't quote me, but the first ever raid appeared in 2006.

[Eirienie]

I too have been playing online games for 12 years, and I'm really enjoying the game. I had to reroll, the game is structured for the casual gamer, but regardless, I'm having a great time and this is the first game in 11 years (apart from DOW) that I can see myself to continue to play. BTW, there are very few games that actually have "raids", and they certainly were none 12 years ago. I think, so don't quote me, but the first ever raid appeared in 2006.

 

But now raids have become a major part of the MMO scene. The only newer MMOs to do without them are of the korean origin, where killing hordes of non-epic everyday stuff is as fun at level 1 and it is at level 50/60/80/99 or whatever the cap is.

[Marak]

I'd personally just like a real horizontal progression. EQ/EQ2 had AAs and I loved it spending all that time getting them.

 

All we have here is a simple/fast gear grind and the economy. There's no real horizontal end game for PvE'ers on the horizon. Rated WZs will at least work for the PvP'ers though I guess.

[Lt_Latency]

PvP is not easy to get.

 

You get like 40 coms at a time and you need like 20k. I stop playing because I like toplay on more equal ground and grind for hours on end just wore me out.. I got sick of having to play 3 hours a day just to be become competitive.

 

Most people don't have time for that they have other things they need to do on top of logging into the same game everyday.

 

I never had time to do anything but grind warzones when i did play

Edited May 31, 2012 by Lt_Latency

[Drakkip]

I too have been playing online games for 12 years, and I'm really enjoying the game. I had to reroll, the game is structured for the casual gamer, but regardless, I'm having a great time and this is the first game in 11 years (apart from DOW) that I can see myself to continue to play. BTW, there are very few games that actually have "raids", and they certainly were none 12 years ago. I think, so don't quote me, but the first ever raid appeared in 2006.

 

EQ had raids back when I played long before 2004. Dark Ages had dragon raids. WoW certainly had raids at release.

 

I am not certain if that is what you were meaning by raids, or what you were referring to in 2006.

[Sarfux]

Yes that's what is needed. If only EA and Bioware could see past the fluff like like dead servers, buggy sounds. And lack of features such as cross server PvP and LFG tools!!!

 

OH LORDY WEN CAN I HAZ BUBLZ!!!

 

dude..i NEED chat bubbles! one little thing that would be sooo good for this game!!

[CrunkShizzle]

people still think rated warzones are going to save the pvp in this game?

 

in my opinion i think rated warzones are going to fail harder then ilum did.i mean hell,i think it speaks for itself when bioware said that there last resort if a looking for group system,i mean seriously? that just made me laugh the day i heard it.just shows the direction this game is going

Edited May 31, 2012 by CrunkShizzle

[-Dench]

The PVP grind is just that, a grind.

 

Want War Hero comms? Just show up for a battle, get some medals and repeat!

 

PVP gearing requires zero skill. Whats worse, is that its the same 4 WZ's over and over again. Whats worse than that is on most servers, there is a significant wait to play those WZ's.

 

I personally can not stand Huttball. Huttball is so horrifying that it usually makes me stop playing pvp for the night. Couple that with long queues, a mindless grind and people quiting in games that immediately unbalance the match, I have a real miserable experience.

 

I haven't PVP'd in weeks, I hit 68 Valor and I was BORED out of my mind. All I have to do is show up. If i bust my butt or sit around being lazy, it's the same result, in the same WZ's. Snooze fest.

 

The WZ's and Ilum need to be reinvented. The same old isn't cutting it. End game PVP is mindlessly boring.

 

The only type of PVP that was fun was open world, but most servers haven't seen that since FEB/MAR.

[DiabloDoom]

But now raids have become a major part of the MMO scene. The only newer MMOs to do without them are of the korean origin, where killing hordes of non-epic everyday stuff is as fun at level 1 and it is at level 50/60/80/99 or whatever the cap is.

 

Not really, wikipedia shows only 26 games with raids mmorpg.com lists over 300 games.

[Abominant]

Great post, as are alot of the points made in this thread.

[HanzBlix]

To be completely honest, I haven't been playing SWTOR since D3 came out. I plan on playing SWTOR, but with no one left on my server it's just not fun. I enjoy crafting and playing the GTN, with no people you can't really do that. I enjoy PvP, with no people q's are just too long to pop. The raiding is meh, my main is in full Rakata, I don't mind raiding but I primarily did it to run with people I've been playing with for many years. I've raided other games, but raiding has never really been my bag.

 

So population is a major issue. From a systems perspective, this must be a huge undertaking for Bioware, as I'm sure this correction needs to be made ASAP. I will put any money that they are figuring this out just about every day they come into the office.

 

The other major issue, which many probably don't even understand, is that there is not a proper carrot for FP's. Instances are an important aspect of just about every MMO. It's a way for a few players to get together and do something with a small group of random players. They should be easy enough to PUG, with some tough enough to run on off raid nights.

 

I will reference I game I used to play EQ2. What EQ2 did was put a couple of BiS items available from the FP's. You certainly couldn't get all the best gear in the game by doing them, but there was always that very rare drop that came from a FP and people would farm the heck out of it. That item always had PuG's forming to run the zones. It gives PvE folks something to do. Columi pieces just aren't a good enough carrot with how easy story mode raids are.

 

If you increased population through transfers/merges you create a larger pool for PvP (WZ's etc.). If you add some good drops to FP's you'll have players of different skill levels AND raiders doing some PvE content on off nights. Also some OW PvP certainly wouldn't hurt for those of us who like to do that.

 

I'm not going to unsub... yet, even though I probably haven't logged in for a couple of weeks. Take my sub money and make some of these changes happen. You have a good game here, but there are some priority issues that need fixing.

[SWGVet]

I resubscribed earlier as well and noticed how much my server has died within the last few months of my absence. I really hope transfers are coming out within a reasonable time frame. I was quite shocked when I logged in, since "The Swiftsure" and "Anchorhead" use to be the number one full/heavy servers to play on since release. This is a bummer. Edited May 31, 2012 by SWGVet

[JediRaffa]

I too feel the same way. I really bought into this game hard and joined the pre-release and played up until around April. At that point, I started to feel the affects of the empty servers and missed content due to poor populations and lack grouping.

 

That is the main reason I unsubbed. I want to see higher pops and a good LFD tool.

 

But here is the thing. After this has been accomplished, there is yet another problem that we will all face once we have our high pops and LFG tool.

 

That is the curse of the "holy trinity".

 

You will find it hard to group because you wont be able to find a tank too fast hence hour long queues and so begins yet another pitfall of modern day MMO's.....

 

I thought SWTOR would move away from this design but I guess I was wrong

Edited May 31, 2012 by JediRaffa
mispelling

[Knockerz]

I would leave too if my server was mostly empty. Although the server isn't what it used to be before aussies left or a three months ago. To think I used to think 120 players on fleet was too low now during peak hours there is between 40 and 80 players on fleet.

[SWGVet]

There were 54 on the fleet today on my server. I can't fathom how they would let it get to this point. It's really bad. This is worst than the Pre-CU| NGE hit for Star Wars Galaxies. Edited May 31, 2012 by SWGVet