Turned off lvl 50 pvp straight away

[Smashbrother]

[\quote] So yea I dont see the difference, unless you want to tell me that you expect that your purples should be carrying you. [\quote]

 

Thats exatly what is happening in pvp... No skill and gear carrying players. That is NOT player vs player. That is gear vs no gear. It is not a challenge, and for new people trying to get in on the action it is not fun. Why do something if you dont stand a chance to succeed. You wonder why only a select group of people pvp, and you have long queue times? Its because no one wants to play in that environment with elitests who love their gear grind and love facerolling instead of actually having a real challenge.

 

All this whining your doing is time you should be spending doing WZs. You would already have a few BM pieces.

[Smashbrother]

No pvp system that relies on gear stats promotes skill. In fact, the standard button smashing, and class system in wow-like mmos destroys any semblence of skill.

 

There is NO combat skill in this game at all.

 

Fighter sims require skill. Many FPSs require skill. Being an archer in RL takes skill. Being a precision shooter in RL takes skill. Any kind of martial combat takes skill. A million other things in this world takes actual skill to do.

 

Don't talk to me about needing skill in this game.

 

I just have to LOL at anyone who really believes you need skill in a game such as this. Though, it is kinda sad as well.

 

If there is no skill involved with this game at all, then why does my lowbie char beat level 40+ 1v1 in WZs consistently?

 

If there is 0 skill involved with this game, why do people come on the forums complaining about losing 10 games in a row while solo Q ing, and I win 2/3s of my games solo Q ing?

 

I agree this game has a low skill ceiling (it's easy to get good at this game, especially with a 1.5s GCD), but it does require some skill.

[xxdragonragexx]

If there is no skill involved with this game at all, then why does my lowbie char beat level 40+ 1v1 in WZs consistently?

 

If there is 0 skill involved with this game, why do people come on the forums complaining about losing 10 games in a row while solo Q ing, and I win 2/3s of my games solo Q ing?

 

I agree this game has a low skill ceiling (it's easy to get good at this game, especially with a 1.5s GCD), but it does require some skill.

 

He obviously doesn't recognize simple class knowledge and 1.5 second reaction time to be skillful. So the person doesn't accept the low skill ceiling to be a "skill". Same as me. I can beat most of my friends in guitar hero with a margin of 5% accuracy. Does that make me skilled? Somewhat, so yes. Is it really worth talking about or getting all excited or making a post about it or debating it? No.

 

MMO is really the lowest of the low when it comes to skill based games. It is even worst than tetris. I always laugh when people talk about skill in this game. Everyone thinks that they have skill in video games anyway like it is some sort of achievement. Even the most unskillful players with 3 second reaction time thinks they are the most skillful.

[Kyuuu]

like how pvp pre 50 was not about the gear it was about the skill of the play and there skills they had. in 50 wz this is none existent which is kind sad, but it is how it is.

[Lord_Karsk]

Thats fine they can get gear for pvp. But im not going to waste days of getting my face stamped into the ground. I want player vs player... Not player vs gear. Im talking about the expertise. There is no longer skill involved. Its just another grind for gear and hope u have more expertise then the next guy. Ifthata te way swtor wants to head. Thats fine but im not going to waste my time.

 

I wanted to enjoy pvp in this game but apparently its not for me. I guess the gear grinders can have fun with the same people over and over again....

 

You are correct.Dont listen to the grinders. Expertise stat is a joke and takes away skill based gameplay.

They could have done it so it would take about equal time to get gear from operations/pvp problem solved.

But no they wanted fail wow 2 with a silly stat so players would have to grind 2 gear sets.So fail.

This is why FPS games sells so much, they are skillbased from start not how long you grind.It's all

about skill.And i thhink in the future the MMO developers will learn this, if they want more subs.

[NuSeC]

If by "fair" you mean a guy who just dinged 50 has the same gear as a guy who has done 15 days in a warzone? No.

 

You dont actually want "fair" you want to instantly be on a level playing field with those who have invested more time. That is by definition, not fair. PvP is fair, you put in the time like we did (which is nothing now, my guildie got full BM in 2 days flat at the weekend from fresh 50), you get the same gear- then we can have an equal fight based on skill.

 

Again, only somebody who doesnt actually understand PvP in this game would complain about expertise, since as i explained you can remove that and you would still get smashed. What you guys want is PvP with no stats at all- im sorry but thats not a RPG or MMO anymore, so its not going to happen.

 

Simply put, if you dont want any player to ever have a statistical numbers advantage over you? better play Street Fighter.

 

Edit: the time it took you to come here and complain you could have earned a BM item...

 

Common Sense crits OP for 9000 damage!

[dronepilot]

As a fresh 50 with full recruit gear... Pvp is still depressing. I really enjoyed pvp while leveling... But at 50 i did not enjoy going in and not even be able to put a dint in the opposition. Being facerolle in pvp because everyone out gears you is not fun and just a turnoff.

 

Pvp should be about skill... Having pvp gear that mitigates player dmg etc destroys that concept. As a fresh 50 im not expecting to faceroll people but a fair fight would be nice.

 

You don't get to kill people higher levels than you in PVP, with out having the right gear, so play more, and grind your way through the ranks, to war hero, and you can get rid of that recruit gear, and get battle master then war hero gear. You will suffer many defeats and wz losses, but you just need to keep at it, and keep working at upping your game.

 

Don't quit WZ, just get 'better at it'.

[Kanana]

If it does not take much time to get BM gear, why have it take any time at all? Makes no sense.

 

The whole idea of having to grind and "work" for gear is so PvE, I can't fathom why any pvper can stomach it.

[Smashbrother]

If it does not take much time to get BM gear, why have it take any time at all? Makes no sense.

 

The whole idea of having to grind and "work" for gear is so PvE, I can't fathom why any pvper can stomach it.

 

Because having nothing to work towards means people will quit playing. Humans instinctively need something to grind for, in both real life and fantasy worlds. It's just human nature. And a gear grind is the easiest to implement.

 

This is why FPS like CoD are more popular nowadays. CoD has leveling and you can buy new and better weapons, gear, and perks as you level. People love character progression.

[Timadan]

Because having nothing to work towards means people will quit playing. .

 

Comedy at it's best, based on the number of players who have already left the game.

[Astarica]

The only reason anakin lost the duel in episode 3 was because he was too cheap to augment his gear.

 

I'd say it's beacuse Obi-wan had Biochem consumables on his side. Jedis are full of tricks.

[Husanak]

If by "fair" you mean a guy who just dinged 50 has the same gear as a guy who has done 15 days in a warzone? No.

 

Why not exactly ?

 

You have seniority is that it ?

 

I really don't get these arguments.

 

If a player has put that much effort into PvPing they should in no way need gear in order to school a new 50.... unless your saying that after 15 days of warzoning you have learned NOTHING ?

 

Seriously these arguments annoy me.... and I am not saying this as some PvP newbie. I re-rolled on fat man like many people have. I doubt I will bother with 50 PvP... my first re-roll is around 42 now... I will PvP with em till around 47-48 and then stop and focus on another alt. I'll be battle master likely in the next few matches on that toon and I really don't see myself bothering with the gear grind on em. Why ? I will have more fun rolling another toon again. Bidding my time until Bio realizes gear grind one of many factors killing there game... or another PvP option strikes my fancy.

[UGLYMRJ]

I'd say it's beacuse Obi-wan had Biochem consumables on his side. Jedis are full of tricks.

It's true Rakata Might Adrenals... not to mention the fact that Anakin wasted his Undying Rage early in the fight like a noob.

[UGLYMRJ]

And honestly I don't get what people are complaining about? Why should someone that has invested a lot of time into PvP NOT be rewarded with better gear? That's like saying you can work for the same company for 30 years and the guy who got hired yesterday makes the same money you do.... *** are you people arguing about?

 

MMO: the more time invested.... the more powerful you become... As it should be

 

P.S. Full BM is not that hard to get...

[DarthOvertone]

There is NO combat skill in this game at all.

 

The gear situation in this game is annoying and certainly not ideal. However, there is definitely combat skill involved in this game. Only a baddie would think otherwise.

 

 

MMO is really the lowest of the low when it comes to skill based games. It is even worst than tetris. I always laugh when people talk about skill in this game. Everyone thinks that they have skill in video games anyway like it is some sort of achievement. Even the most unskillful players with 3 second reaction time thinks they are the most skillful.

 

Actually, no. My 2 year-old can play Tetris and does on her iPad. She certainly does not possess the skill level to play this game. She can make the character jump. That's about it.

 

Of course, peeps beating their chest about having skill in a video game is a joke. But I would say the same thing about most anything that requires skill to do. The level of validation and esteem one can receive is subjectively based, regardless of how marginal the skill level may be.

 

There are peeps that have awesome moves and can dance great in the club. They certainly have lots of skill in that regard. But I always thought these peeps were clowns, and I consistently pulled more pew than they did. So dancing is a joke right?

 

These days, everyone's a critic. Nobody wants to just have fun. Instead of having a good time, peeps would rather make excuses as to why they aren't having fun. Boring, dull people.

[UGLYMRJ]

The gear situation in this game is annoying and certainly not ideal. However, there is definitely combat skill involved in this game. Only a baddie would think otherwise..

 

I concur... what people BLAME on gear is usually just someone being that much better than them. Of course no one wants to admit to sucking. So obviously the game is unbalanced and that opposing player has better gear than you which makes it unfair.

 

For those not familiar with MMO's you can relate this to terms often found in many FPS games such as MW3:

1. Stupid Lag

2. I shot him in the face

3. *** No register

 

MMO's do not have problems with registering, head shots and lag is less of a problem for anyone with decent internet so many bad players find equivalents to this. It is ALWAYS poor game design and NEVER poor game play or skill by the losing player. FACT!

[AKfourtyseven]

Why not exactly ?

 

You have seniority is that it ?

 

I really don't get these arguments.

 

Is it really that hard to understand.

 

When you enrol into university, you arent given a first class bachelors honours degree on the first day are you? You are required to put in time. Hitting 50 in PvP is the same, there is a period you go through where you are the new guy and have to work your way up the ladder. People need to examine what they mean by "fairness". Fairness implies that each persons efforts and status are regarded equally.

 

Well one way of doing that is to either make no effort required, or equal effort. Either way the best players will win, but what i dont understand is those who proclaim them self to be good PvPers complaining about needing to get gear. If you are good you can circumvent a large portion of the gear gap and accelerate your progression to the required level. I have never heard a good PvPer complain about gear differentials for any extended period of time, but ive listened to alot of very bad players complain about it.

 

Also, as i said before, you can remove expertise, thats not going to save fresh 50s, they would just get smashed by those in full rakata and campaign gear- so nothing would change. People use expertise as a scapegoat for other more fundamental issues.

 

People say skill doesnt matter? I disagree, a skilled player will exhibit they have skill by defeating people with better gear. A skilled player will exhibit skill by beating those with equal gear. They will destroy those with lesser gear. Lets also not pretend that gear gaps didnt exist in other games which did not have a PvP stat- i distinctly remember the difference having 40% stun, 90% to all others composite armour made in SWG, not to mention a legendary DoT pike and an armour suit filled with speed tapes to hit the speed cap on my Pikeman/def stacker.

 

I say again, if you want absolutely no stats to play a part in PvP then you are looking for a different type of game.

Edited May 30, 2012 by AKfourtyseven

[DweezillKagemand]

You can get full BM in like 3 days.

 

Gear isn't gonna fix the fact that you're bad.

[Astarica]

It's funny since tetris was brought up. There is this grandmaster mode thing for Tetris where the pieces fall instantly and once they drop they're invisible. There might only a single digit number of people in the world that can clear this mode. Even factoring the relative popularity of Tetris compared to other games, it's pretty safe to say this mode is more exclusive than almost any gaming achievement you can think of.

 

But is this something to be impressed by? Maybe, maybe not. To most knowing someone cleared Tetris on grandmaster mode is probably about as useful as knowing a guy is a world class competitive eater. You don't have to be impressed by skills in a video game, but it's definitely there. The competitive eating guys have a ton of skill in terms of eating stuff (they have to train for that). I'd argue that's a skill I'd rather not have, but it's definitely a skill they have that I do not.

[UGLYMRJ]

you can get full bm in like 3 days.

 

Gear isn't gonna fix the fact that you're bad.

 

fact!

[UGLYMRJ]

It's funny since tetris was brought up. There is this grandmaster mode thing for Tetris where the pieces fall instantly and once they drop they're invisible. There might only a single digit number of people in the world that can clear this mode. Even factoring the relative popularity of Tetris compared to other games, it's pretty safe to say this mode is more exclusive than almost any gaming achievement you can think of.

 

But is this something to be impressed by? Maybe, maybe not. To most knowing someone cleared Tetris on grandmaster mode is probably about as useful as knowing a guy is a world class competitive eater. You don't have to be impressed by skills in a video game, but it's definitely there. The competitive eating guys have a ton of skill in terms of eating stuff (they have to train for that). I'd argue that's a skill I'd rather not have, but it's definitely a skill they have that I do not.

 

It obviously bothers people or they wouldn't be whining about it and making excuses as to why they constantly lose.... Just sayin'

[ubermouth]

As a fresh 50 with full recruit gear... Pvp is still depressing. I really enjoyed pvp while leveling... But at 50 i did not enjoy going in and not even be able to put a dint in the opposition. Being facerolle in pvp because everyone out gears you is not fun and just a turnoff.

 

Pvp should be about skill... Having pvp gear that mitigates player dmg etc destroys that concept. As a fresh 50 im not expecting to faceroll people but a fair fight would be nice.

 

Honestly, get three pieces of BM gear, throw in half decent skills, and you" ll be able to start moving up in the ranks.

[xxdragonragexx]

It's funny since tetris was brought up. There is this grandmaster mode thing for Tetris where the pieces fall instantly and once they drop they're invisible. There might only a single digit number of people in the world that can clear this mode. Even factoring the relative popularity of Tetris compared to other games, it's pretty safe to say this mode is more exclusive than almost any gaming achievement you can think of.

 

Have you seen Sherlock Holmes Game Of Shadows?

Plenty of people in the world can play chess blindfolded or without a chess table.

I'm sure if there is some sort of prize, trophy or money involve, there will also lots of people that can do grandmaster tetris.

 

There are peeps that have awesome moves and can dance great in the club. They certainly have lots of skill in that regard. But I always thought these peeps were clowns, and I consistently pulled more pew than they did. So dancing is a joke right?

 

Why are you a hater? You just said the guy had awesome moves then you said he is a clown. Dancing actually requires a lot of skill since it requires lots of practice, diet, nutrition and stamina. Dancing uses a lot of muscle memory. So if he had awesome moves then he obviously spent a lot of time perfecting his art and anyone that works hard cannot be a clown.

 

 

Honestly, get three pieces of BM gear, throw in half decent skills, and you" ll be able to start moving up in the ranks.

 

QFT. If people are good or have skill, they wouldn't have problems getting gear in this game especially with the "gear for warzone losers" program that swtor has.

Edited May 30, 2012 by xxdragonragexx

[Husanak]

Is it really that hard to understand.

 

When you enrol into university, you arent given a first class bachelors honours degree on the first day are you? You are required to put in time. Hitting 50 in PvP is the same, there is a period you go through where you are the new guy and have to work your way up the ladder. People need to examine what they mean by "fairness". Fairness implies that each persons efforts and status are regarded equally.

 

Well one way of doing that is to either make no effort required, or equal effort. Either way the best players will win, but what i dont understand is those who proclaim them self to be good PvPers complaining about needing to get gear. If you are good you can circumvent a large portion of the gear gap and accelerate your progression to the required level. I have never heard a good PvPer complain about gear differentials for any extended period of time, but ive listened to alot of very bad players complain about it.

 

Also, as i said before, you can remove expertise, thats not going to save fresh 50s, they would just get smashed by those in full rakata and campaign gear- so nothing would change. People use expertise as a scapegoat for other more fundamental issues.

 

People say skill doesnt matter? I disagree, a skilled player will exhibit they have skill by defeating people with better gear. A skilled player will exhibit skill by beating those with equal gear. They will destroy those with lesser gear. Lets also not pretend that gear gaps didnt exist in other games which did not have a PvP stat- i distinctly remember the difference having 40% stun, 90% to all others composite armour made in SWG, not to mention a legendary DoT pike and an armour suit filled with speed tapes to hit the speed cap on my Pikeman/def stacker.

 

I say again, if you want absolutely no stats to play a part in PvP then you are looking for a different type of game.

 

Don't get me wrong Warlord I completely agree that this is a skill based game. I have full gear on another server that is dead... no real complaint on my part... I am simply opting out of the 50 gear grind on my re roll server cause its not worth the annoyance to me... which brings me to my real complaint.

 

I have multiple BattleMaster toons on another server I put the time in... and I am putting time in re leveling toons on a non dead server... and if a guy like me with lots of time on his hands is NOT willing to put up with the grind why the hell would a new player. Which I think is the real issue... the large difference between newbie 50 gear and geared up scares away new players. Down the line a year and 2-3 more expertise upgrades, new players will for sure not bother to pay there dues and pvp will die off. That is the issue I have with PvP stats in general.... you are right about Rakata gear... the best way to fix the issue is to simply add a PVE stat to end game raid gear. Make it not much better then crafted purples but add a PvE stat that adds massive bonuses vs NPCs... and perhaps even a second stat that only gives bonuses vs boss class NPCs... this makes PvE gear worth grinding for if your into PvE and makes it no better for PvP then mission rewards.

 

A solution like that would be good for the long term health of the PvP in this game.

[Pexxle]

hey be happy that you can buy pvp gear now that has expertise in it.. the old way you got tromped over and over till you got enough commendations to buy some expertise..it is way easier now than it used to be

 

This ^^ and i move along.