Powertech Pyrotech deserve the HUGE nerf

[Mrunlimited]

i want my hidden strike and backstab to have 90% armor pen too!! =)

 

i would just settle for having my old 50% armor pen buff back =\

[Agooz]

I want 60% armor ignore on my biggest hitting attack too, because it's not effective against higher armored players ;_;

Oh, and a perma slow

It's not Perma slow, it is a 2sec that is applied with our main attacks, which if we spam constantly we'd be over heated in no time.

 

And heavy armor

You willing to trade it for your immunity bubble, and/or other defensive CDs? Mauraders/Sent dont have Heavy and seem to be 10x more survivable than heavys.

 

And no resource managment

This alone shows how clueless you are, as Pyros specifically are probably the highest or one of the highest resource intensive AC.

 

And a tanking stance

A stance that requires casting time and no PT in their right mind stance dances in WZs. Not to mention that a Pyro in Tank stance means he now does about 60% less damage across the board to gain 5% mitigation. Show me 1 video of a Pyro that switches stances in WZs with any measure of success and you can have a cookie.

 

And shield generator

Not a single Pyro that I know would be stupid enough to wear a shield generator, NOT THAT SHIELDING is worth ANYTHING in PvP.

 

And instatnly re-appliable dot

And?? what's the problem with that? without this dot a Pyro is COMPLETELY shut down, which for some people who understand this, either stay outside of the 10m or can cleanse the dot.

 

And taunts

Yea it's pretty crazy to give taunts to a tank class.

 

And a pull

That is affected by the resolve bar, unlike a Sorcere's/Sage's extrication/Rescue which isnt. Oh and the REAL OP class, assassins, have pull as well, plus 10x more survivability, plus stealth, plus speed boost, plus insane damage IN TANK stance.

 

I could mention the 25% damage reduction shield too, but let's make it our little secret.

Are you suggesting that Juggs/Mauraders/Assassins have less defensive CDs?

 

Nice try.

Edited June 4, 2012 by Agooz

[ComeAndSee]

The armor penetration talent is more like a fancy bonus damage talent in disguise. It can be like +20% bonus damage on Heavy Armor and +5% on light armor, but light armor already takes more damage because they have lower armor. It's kind of balanced in its own way. I'm talking about just 60%.

 

90% is just absurd. I've been crit for over 4k by recruit geared Pyrotechs and I have 50% damage reduction from armor. I'm happy to crit a Tank for 1800.

Edited June 4, 2012 by ComeAndSee

[Hethroin]

I want 60% armor ignore on my biggest hitting attack too, because it's not effective against higher armored players ;_;

It's 90%. You can also have it delve at 60% of the value on other similar attacks.

My HIB delves 1.9k at the top end with 470 ranged damage bonus. Similarly geared Gunslinger's Aimed Shot Delves at 3.2k.

 

Oh, and a perma slow

Every melee DPS class in this game can snare a single target with 100% uptime. Unless you are playing ranged you do have it.

And heavy armor

In DPS stance the difference between heavy and medium armor is 5% mitigation to energy and kinetic attacks. Internal and Elemental are unmitigated by armor. Pyro spec has no options to increase this kind of mitigation.

And no resource managment

Pyro has to manage resources. A pyro that overheats, and has no resource building cooldowns available will be using the base attack for over 10 seconds.

And a tanking stance

Not used by a pyro.

And shield generator

Not used by a pyro

And instatnly re-appliable dot

Marauder, Op, Sniper, Sorc, Jug, Merc, and Sin can all spec for DoTs. Instantly re-applying dots isn't what you want to do with DoTs, you want to let them tic.

And taunts

Other tank-capable DPS specs also keep their taunts.

And a pull

What class do you play? Other classes have mechanics that can be considered a counter or balancing mechanic. Stealth, Speed, Cover, Leap, Friendly Leap, Friendly Pull, Combat Stealth; all these counter or balance pull.

I could mention the 25% damage reduction shield too, but let's make it our little secret.

Jug/Mara have Saberward that does the same thing except it also adds 50% parry.

Sins have deflection and tech/force immune on a shorter CD.

Ops have Dodge on a shorter CD, and Bubble, as well as in-combat stealth.

Ranged classes, other than Merc, do not get defensive CDs.

 

Would you like to list Stealth Scan as a game breaking ability too?

[Oscibi]

I want 60% armor ignore on my biggest hitting attack too, because it's not effective against higher armored players ;_;

 

Oh, and a perma slow - Melee/ranged class with 1 def cd.

And heavy armor - See above.

And no resource managment - lol you havent played a pt or vg.

And a tanking stance - yes - nerfs dmg gives 5% mitigration - so good.

And shield generator - Yes but you have have the tank cell on for it to work - so less stats and less dmg.

And instatnly re-appliable dot - on our attacks yes - and a high cost dot im

And taunts - that does not affect damage against us

And a pull - a melee closer and? some classes have charge, some class have knock backs, lets cry about all of them...

 

I could mention the 25% damage reduction shield too, but let's make it our little secret -1 defensive cooldown......

 

I can haz pl0x?

 

srsly some classes are different to the ones i play. I will cry about not having cloak, light sabers blahblahblahblahblahblah

[Dmasterr]

.

 

Just wanted to point out that all your characters (according to your sig) belong to the 3 musketeers club of most powerful classes ingame.

[Hethroin]

The armor penetration talent is more like a fancy bonus damage talent in disguise. It can be like +20% bonus damage on Heavy Armor and +5% on light armor, but light armor already takes more damage because they have lower armor. It's kind of balanced in its own way. I'm talking about just 60%.

 

90% is just absurd. I've been crit for over 4k by recruit geared Pyrotechs and I have 50% damage reduction from armor. I'm happy to crit a Tank for 1800.

 

I'll repeat, the delve value on the HIB is the lowest value for its kind of attack. 1.9k top-end at level 50 with 470 ranged power.

 

On a more personal note:

You need to stop comparing your damage dealt as a tank spec in tank stance with tank gear, you are not speced for damage. No one cares that you can't hit as hard as you are being hit, you are a tank. A 4K crit against a tank VG from a recruit geared pyro is possible, only with the use of adrenals. Similar results will occur when another DPS class uses adrenals.

 

Spec pyro, run the eliminator set, see how much damage you deal. Compare that with how much damage you start taking. A pyro v pyro duel lasts less than 15 seconds, the class is a glass cannon.

[Agooz]

90% is just absurd. I've been crit for over 4k by recruit geared Pyrotechs and I have 50% damage reduction from armor. I'm happy to crit a Tank for 1800.

 

Sure, lets lie and exaggerate to add weight to our arguments. Yea right a recruit geared pyro critting for 4k on a pvp geared tank. So you're saying a pyro in full WH augmented, can just regularly crit for 5-6k on a tank? Damn I must be bugged, cause I am not seeing these numbers.

[Swaggz]

I want 60% armor ignore on my biggest hitting attack too, because it's not effective against higher armored players ;_;

Oh, and a perma slow My Sin has one of these...

And heavy armor Armor is overrated. Not as big of a deal as most make it out to be...

And no resource managment Sounds like my Sin...

And a tanking stance My Darkness Sin does too. Even nerfs my damage 5%

And shield generator People use these in PvP.?.?.?

And instatnly re-appliable dot Wither has a DoT...

And taunts Like the guy above said...doesn't affect those beating on me...

And a pull Yup, my Sin has one of those as well.

I could mention the 25% damage reduction shield too, but let's make it our little secret. I have 2 Def CD's that's better than that.

 

I can haz pl0x?

 

While some classes may need a tweak, PT's aren't really one of them. Plus, if they were to buff the utility/dmg of some classes I'm sure this thread would be more laughable than it is now.

[Hethroin]

Just wanted to point out that all your characters (according to your sig) belong to the 3 musketeers club of most powerful classes ingame.

 

What can I say, I know how to pick them. Though if you click on the Sin's spec you will see that I don't run the FOTM spec on that one. I prefer the 30m nuke and the better CC over the PBAE snare and self heals.

 

My next toon is going to be a scoundrel healer, currently 39. After that I expect I'll have to roll a sniper as it will be the only unnerfed DPS left in the game.

[Sharee]

I'll repeat, the delve value on the HIB is the lowest value for its kind of attack. 1.9k top-end at level 50 with 470 ranged power.

 

You really have a fuzzy definition of 'its kind of attack':

 

It's 90%. You can also have it delve at 60% of the value on other similar attacks.

My HIB delves 1.9k at the top end with 470 ranged damage bonus. Similarly geared Gunslinger's Aimed Shot Delves at 3.2k

 

So according to you a (by-default) 2.5 sec cast time attack is the same kind of attack as an instant attack, and a valid base for damage comparison.

 

Dream on mate.

 

(Just for fun. Lets assume your delves are correct. HIB: 1900 in 1.5s = 1266 DPS. Aimed shot: 3200 in 2.5s = 1280 DPS. Huge difference indeed )

Edited June 4, 2012 by Sharee

[Slashtwo]

Grapple has the same cooldown as your defensive cooldowns, and it puts you at full resolve.... LOL

 

Grapple does like 400 resolve, dunno where you're getting your info from.

[Hethroin]

You really have a fuzzy definition of 'its kind of attack':

 

So according to you a (by-default) 2.5 sec cast time attack is the same kind of attack than an instant attack, and a valid base for damage comparison.

Dream on mate.

 

How hard does Back Blast hit? Merciless Slash? Assassinate? Dispatch? Takedown? Maul? Cull?

 

RS for the pyro is the equivalent of all of those.

[NoTomorrow]

How hard does Back Blast hit? Merciless Slash? Assassinate? Dispatch? Takedown? Maul? Cull?

 

RS for the pyro is the equivalent of all of those.

 

Please stop spreading non-sense. You cannot compare Cull with any of the above.

Edited June 4, 2012 by NoTomorrow

[Sharee]

How hard does Back Blast hit? Merciless Slash? Assassinate? Dispatch? Takedown? Maul? Cull?

 

RS for the pyro is the equivalent of all of those.

 

Yes, let's instead compare it's damage to finishers that can only be used on targets below 30% HP, THAT will surely be a better base for comparison

[HTPRO]

How hard does Back Blast hit? Merciless Slash? Assassinate? Dispatch? Takedown? Maul? Cull?

 

RS for the pyro is the equivalent of all of those.

 

yes I love my 30m 6s cd Merciless Slashes which ignore 90% of enemy armour

 

oh wait they don´t

[Hethroin]

Yes, let's instead compare it's damage to finishers that can only be used on targets below 30% HP, THAT will surely be a better base for comparison

 

Roll more eyes. PTs do not have a finisher, which makes RS their finisher. The comparison to those is made because they are also white damage, though the best one is probably maul that coincidentally hits for over 4k when speced and proced.

 

yes I love my 30m 6s cd Merciless Slashes which ignore 90% of enemy armour

oh wait they don´t

They do not. Yet they still crit over 5k with relic and adrenal, just like 90% armor-ignoring RS.

Edited June 4, 2012 by Hethroin

[DimeStax]

God I love this thread. The more you PT Pyros and Assault Vanguard's post in it meekly attempting to defend your OP spec the more attention you draw to it by lengthening this thread. It's a lose-lose situation for you.

[Underpowered]

Roll more eyes. PTs do not have a finisher, which makes RS their finisher. The comparison to those is made because they are also white damage, though the best one is probably maul that coincidentally hits for over 4k when speced and proced.

 

Pyros have the strongest substained and burst DPS in the game, AND you're complaining about a lack of finisher? Wow, the arrogance of Pyros have reached a new high. Pyros = underpowered killers because they have no finisher, you heard it here folks.

 

p.s. if you feel that you need an actual finisher to kill targets as a Pyro, you're doing it wrong. Plain and simple.

[Sharee]

Roll more eyes. PTs do not have a finisher, which makes RS their finisher.

 

The fact that you consider it 'their finisher' does not make a comparison to real finishers valid. Real finisher delves are higher because the inability to use them on healthy targets is already calculated into their overall DPS. If dispatch was usable on targets regardless of their health, you bet it's damage would be much lower.

Edited June 4, 2012 by Sharee

[DimeStax]

Roll more eyes. PTs do not have a finisher, which makes RS their finisher. The comparison to those is made because they are also white damage, though the best one is probably maul that coincidentally hits for over 4k when speced and proced.

 

 

They do not. Yet they still crit over 5k with relic and adrenal, just like 90% armor-ignoring RS.

 

I want a finisher I can use the entire fight every 6 seconds too!

[SinnedQWERTY]

Tanks minding the 90% armor reduction I can imagine... the elemental also hurt more.

 

Everyone else, sorry but .. 90% of very little is ... very very little.

 

If the RS kills you at that point, you would of gotten killed by a finisher also.

Edited June 4, 2012 by SinnedQWERTY

[anwg]

Challenge accepted.

 

The main problem with powertech is armor penetration and elemental damage. Change the elemental damage to tech, and make the 60% armor penetration talent work only on mobs.

 

 

 

There is no tech damage in this game.

[Sharee]

Tanks minding the 90% armor reduction I can imagine... the elemental also hurt more.

 

Everyone else, sorry but .. 90% of very little is ... very very little.

 

Armor has heavy diminishing returns. Meaning the first few armor points protect the most. Stripping those first few armor points from a light armor class actually reduces his armor protection much more than stripping the high-end armor points off a tank. Red is armor stripped by penetration, white is remaining armor:

 

<biggest protection><Smallest protection>

............................................................................. Tank

..................................... Light armor

 

Tank loses more overall armor points, but the light armor is hurt more because unlike the tank it loses the most valuable armor points(those that offer the most protection).

Edited June 4, 2012 by Sharee

[Dmasterr]

There is no tech damage in this game.

 

Right, tech abilities-> kinetic dmg.

 

You know what i meant.